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Friday, June 08, 2018

Shohei Ohtani to the DL for NOT blister issues

Obviously, I’ve gone into mourning.

Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:17 PM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: angels, shohei ohtani, ucl

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   1. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:21 PM (#5688470)
Ohtani John surgery
   2. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:24 PM (#5688474)
AKA "Angels Fans Self-Immolation Thread"
   3. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:25 PM (#5688475)
Oh no.
   4. DavidFoss Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:26 PM (#5688478)
How long have UCL sprains had grades? Does 'grade 2' mean anything to anybody?
   5. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:28 PM (#5688481)
Maybe this is why Babe Ruth gave up pitching.
   6. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:29 PM (#5688483)
There are three grades of sprain: grade 1, 2 and 3. A grade 1 sprain means that the ligament is stretched but no tear is felt. A grade 2 sprain indicates the ligament is stretched and a partial tear could be present. A grade 3 sprain indicates there is a complete tear of the ligament.

(taken from the Beacon orthopedics website)
   7. PepTech Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:30 PM (#5688485)
HOW WILL THE ANGELS... no, too cruel.
   8. Count Vorror Rairol Mencoon (CoB) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5688486)
Hopefully the injection and rest will be enough, he's a fun player.
   9. Baldrick Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:31 PM (#5688487)
Burn it to the ground.
   10. Lassus Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:33 PM (#5688488)
This is an unwelcome addition to an unpleasant day.
   11. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:38 PM (#5688492)
Ugh. There is nothing more gut punching than a serious injury to a favorite young player. I'm genuinely sorry for Angels fans. Just as a fan of MLB I'm saddened.

This might be the start of his full time career as a reliever and position player though, no?

How long have UCL sprains had grades? Does 'grade 2' mean anything to anybody?


It means that it's not fully torn but it's more than just a mild sprain -- meaning there is significant weakness and trauma in the ligament. If it was just you or I we'd rest it for a couple months, do some rehab, and call it good. But we aren't throwing baseballs 90+ MPH for a living.

Because there is a chance the ligament will heal without surgery (and the PRT will help) they are going to try that first. There is a good chance he doesn't need surgery. But this is a pretty substantial injury.

In a similar injury Micker Adolfo, a White Sox prospect, had what is described as a "pinhole" tear in his UCL that occurred in spring training. He is just an RF but they shut him down from all throwing and he might not have to have Tommy John depending on how he feels in a few months. He is continuing to DH full time in the minors with no pain or limitations.

Modern medicine is conservative as a principle so if there's any decent chance the ligament can heal on its own that's usually the course of action the team, player, and medical team will suggest.

   12. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:45 PM (#5688499)
This might be the start of his full time career as a reliever and position player though, no?

Why?
   13. DavidFoss Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:45 PM (#5688500)
@6 and @11, thanks!
   14. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5688502)
Why?


It might be a course of action they try while he heals. DH him for now. Perhaps doctors will recommend he only throws 40-50 pitches a week for now. I dunno, just spitballing here on the Internet on a Friday afternoon at the office!
   15. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:47 PM (#5688505)
In a similar injury Micker Adolfo, a White Sox prospect, had what is described as a "pinhole" tear in his UCL that occurred in spring training. He is just an RF but they shut him down from all throwing and he might not have to have Tommy John depending on how he feels in a few months. He is continuing to DH full time in the minors with no pain or limitations.

So, why don't the Angels just shut down Ohtani's pitching and let him DH every day?
   16. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:50 PM (#5688511)
Ugh. There is nothing more gut punching than a serious injury to a favorite young player. I'm genuinely sorry for Angels fans. Just as a fan of MLB I'm saddened.

Yeah, I'm having Kerry Wood flashbacks. He was so dominant and exciting in the first half of 1998, striking people out with crazy movement and velocity. Then he got hurt, and tried to come back and made it worse, and that was that. He was never the same pitcher.

Ohtani as a 60 IP/year late-inning reliever who bats 550 times could still be a fun player to watch, especially if his offensive game continues to mature as he gets older. But I'm becoming less hopeful that we'll see someone who can win 20 games and hit 20 HRs in the same year.
   17. A triple short of the cycle Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5688513)
I read the headline as he has blisters from playing NOT which I assumed is some video game platform I hadn't heard of.

How did he sprain his UCL?
   18. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:51 PM (#5688514)
Ohtani as a 60 IP/year late-inning reliever who bats 550 times could still be a fun player to watch

I just don't see how that works. Too many times his spot in the batting order would prevent him warming up.
   19. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5688517)
So, why don't the Angels just shut down Ohtani's pitching and let him DH every day?


it's a possible course of action. IIRC David Price had a similar diagnosis and was able to avoid surgery last spring.

Although apparently docs told him his case was "unique".
   20. Man o' Schwar Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:52 PM (#5688519)
So, why don't the Angels just shut down Ohtani's pitching and let him DH every day?

My guess would be in part a CYA kind of decision. If they let him keep hitting, and for whatever reason the UCL tear got worse, they would be heavily criticized for not shutting him down completely and instead endangering the team's second most valuable asset like that.

No one will blame them for saying "we're going to act with an overabundance of caution here, given his age and potential impact on the Angels' future."
   21. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:54 PM (#5688520)
No one will blame them for saying "we're going to act with an overabundance of caution here, given his age and potential impact on the Angels' future."


Good point. In other news, the 2018 Mariners continue to have a lucky horse shoe implanted firmly up their backside.
   22. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 03:59 PM (#5688522)
Although apparently docs told him his case was "unique".


"George Mitchell said you can use these Dominican milkshakes in your rehab."
   23. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:00 PM (#5688523)
A grade 2 sprain indicates the ligament is stretched and a partial tear could be present.

In July of 2014, his first MLB season, the Yankees Masahiro Tanaka had a small UCL tear, and went the PRP, rest & rehab route. At the time, non-surgical treatment was relatively rare, or so it seemed, and many at BBTF were insistent that Tanaka should just go ahead with Tommy John surgery since it made no sense to delay the inevitable. However, Tanaka came back before the season was over, and tonight will be making his 100th start on that UCL (KNOCK ON WOOD!). No way of knowing if Ohtani's situation is better or worse, but he might come out OK. Will he be able to hit during the rehab?
   24. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:03 PM (#5688529)
In July of 2014, his first MLB season, the Yankees Masahiro Tanaka had a small UCL tear, and went the PRP, rest & rehab route. At the time, non-surgical treatment was relatively rare, or so it seemed, and many at BBTF were insistent that Tanaka should just go ahead with Tommy John surgery since it made no sense to delay the inevitable. However, Tanaka came back before the season was over, and tonight will be making his 100th start on that UCL (KNOCK ON WOOD!). No way of knowing if Ohtani's situation is better or worse, but he might come out OK. Will he be able to hit during the rehab?


Yea, another similar case. I remember it about the same as you and I myself believed he should have just had the surgery and didn't believe the rest and rehab would work. That said, Tanaka's FIP has risen every year since then and now sits at 5.05 after finishing at 4.34 last year.

Maybe his arm just isn't as loose and effective as it would have been had he elected to get the surgery.

"George Mitchell said you can use these Dominican milkshakes in your rehab."


Ironically, those are illegal but PRT is not.
   25. ??'s Biggest Fan! Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:16 PM (#5688541)
I bet the other front offices in MLB are hoping Ray’s bullpening strategy is a smashing success. Investing in starting pitchers in the hopes they become elite can sometimes feel like setting money on fire. I know Angels didn’t sacrifice a lot on payroll, but dammit if this doesn’t hurt their marketing and gate receipts and fan interest.
   26. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: June 08, 2018 at 04:28 PM (#5688554)
Ugh. This sucks so much.
   27. JAHV Posted: June 08, 2018 at 05:44 PM (#5688581)
DAMN IT.
   28. TVerik, who wonders what the hell is "Ansky" Posted: June 08, 2018 at 09:19 PM (#5688662)
Yeah, I'm having Kerry Wood flashbacks. He was so dominant and exciting in the first half of 1998, striking people out with crazy movement and velocity. Then he got hurt, and tried to come back and made it worse, and that was that. He was never the same pitcher.


Until he got to the Yankees in 2010. A 631 ERA+! It's no Joba 2007: 1221 ERA+, but it's still pretty good.
   29. PreservedFish Posted: June 08, 2018 at 09:20 PM (#5688663)
#### this ####
   30. Astroenteritis Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:12 PM (#5688732)
Well, this is no fun.
   31. JimMusComp likes Billy Eppler.... Posted: June 08, 2018 at 11:36 PM (#5688757)
Very sad news - even if I weren't an Angel fan. I hate seeing young, promising players hurt. Hopefully, he can continue to hit in a few weeks even if he can't pitch...
   32. winnipegwhip Posted: June 09, 2018 at 02:17 AM (#5688810)
Tear-a, Tear-a, Tear-a.
   33. Meatwad Posted: June 09, 2018 at 02:22 AM (#5688813)
I hope he is able to recover soon. Mlb needs him.
   34. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: June 09, 2018 at 07:29 AM (#5688822)
Called it.
   35. Tim M Posted: June 09, 2018 at 10:12 AM (#5688848)
The act of pitching ruins the thing that does the pitching, either now or later. It's almost as if there's a fatal flaw in the game itself.

As for Ohtani, if I'm the Angels, it was fun while it lasted but I send him straight to the outfield, and never pitch him again.
   36. PreservedFish Posted: June 09, 2018 at 10:26 AM (#5688857)
Is there a chance that he'll be hitting ready long before he's pitching ready?
   37. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: June 09, 2018 at 12:48 PM (#5688899)
As for Ohtani, if I'm the Angels, it was fun while it lasted but I send him straight to the outfield, and never pitch him again.
I think his upside as a pitcher is much, much higher than it is as a hitter. The fact that he CAN hit like he can makes him unique, but that fastball/splitter combo alone makes him exceptional.
   38. The Yankee Clapper Posted: June 09, 2018 at 01:42 PM (#5688911)
This ESPN article looks at some of the medical aspects of UCL strains, and how treatment might affect Ohtani's time table for resuming pitching or hitting. Bottom line: By going with PRP treatment now, the timetable won't be any different if he has surgery after the treatment or in the off-season; he'd be out as a pitcher until 2020. However, he may be able to DH later this season, and within ~ 6 months of surgery if that proves necessary.
   39. Greg Pope Posted: June 09, 2018 at 03:39 PM (#5688960)
However, he may be able to DH later this season, and within ~ 6 months of surgery if that proves necessary.

Could he effectively rehab as a pitcher while he is regularly DH’ing? I don’t know how much time a recovery pitcher spends in the weight room, pool, etc. I don’t think most pitchers rehab with the team, so this would be a unique situation.
   40. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: June 09, 2018 at 04:07 PM (#5688978)
Strasburg to the DL with shoulder inflammation.
   41. RMc Has Bizarre Ideas to Fix Baseball Posted: June 09, 2018 at 06:18 PM (#5689041)
I think his upside as a pitcher is much, much higher than it is as a hitter.

Not with a sore arm, it ain't.
   42. Barnaby Jones Posted: June 10, 2018 at 03:43 AM (#5689195)
Wasn't his UCL already kinda messed up? I remember that being an issue before he signed. Seems like this was probably inevitable.
   43. Tin Angel Posted: June 10, 2018 at 02:09 PM (#5689249)
Ohtani as a 60 IP/year late-inning reliever who bats 550 times could still be a fun player to watch, especially if his offensive game continues to mature as he gets older


I wonder if you could use him even more than that, like Andrew Miller. Bring him in the 6th or 7th and if he's rolling just leave him in. Then have him DH the next day. Would make him even more difficult to hit since guys would see him less.
   44. Lassus Posted: June 11, 2018 at 08:07 AM (#5689442)
The act of pitching ruins the thing that does the pitching, either now or later. It's almost as if there's a fatal flaw in the game itself.

Was it only drugs that kept pitchers together who didn't ever fall apart over long careers, however? Or pure chance?

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