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Sunday, December 03, 2017

Shohei Ohtani won’t sign with New York Yankees | MLB.com

This is a shocker.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:32 PM | 181 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: shohei ohtani, yankees

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   1. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:34 PM (#5585275)
They should have used spellcheck on their response to the questionnaire.
   2. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:42 PM (#5585282)
Somebody hide Clapper's shoelaces.
   3. Blastin Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:51 PM (#5585286)
Looks like Seattle.

And they still won't make the playoffs I bet. But good for them, that's a cool city and if I were Japanese I might want to go there too.
   4. Adam Starblind Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:52 PM (#5585288)
Doesn't look good for the Mets.
   5. The_Ex Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5585291)
Reports suggest he wants west coast and smaller market....but not Oakland.
   6. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:55 PM (#5585293)
The Giants & Mariners seems to be the leading options, although "smaller market on the West Coast" would certainly include San Diego. Ohtani looks to be missing an opportunity here, but it's his choice.
   7. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:25 PM (#5585313)
Ohtani looks to be missing an opportunity here, but it's his choice.


Yes, a huge opportunity to play with the 2 time defending AL east champs and most likely 2018 World Series champs.

However Seattle is a nice town with lots to offer. Hope he likes rain!

Probably the best sushi in the U.S. though, that fish market in Seattle is amazing.
   8. Walt Davis Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5585314)
Remind me not to let Ohtani handle my investments -- he ain't got no financial sense!
   9. Greg Pope Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:33 PM (#5585322)
From a different article:

Ohtani's two problems with the Yankees? Cashman said he was told that it was that they're not a small-market club, nor are they on the West Coast.


Had we heard anything at all about Ohtani preferring a small market?

Red Sox also out.
   10. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:36 PM (#5585329)
BREAKING: Ohtani has signed a 6-year deal with Green Bay.
   11. RMc's Unenviable Situation Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:40 PM (#5585332)
BREAKING: Ohtani has signed a 6-year deal with Green Bay.

Make that Keokuk!
   12. Baldrick Posted: December 03, 2017 at 07:49 PM (#5585338)
However Seattle is a nice town with lots to offer. Hope he likes rain!

Seattle has very little rain during the summer. Much less than New York.
   13. Astroenteritis Posted: December 03, 2017 at 08:10 PM (#5585346)
This is actually refreshing. Not all Babe Ruths want the same thing. Rooting for the Giants to sign him, but understand him being attracted to Seattle, or San Diego for that matter.
   14. Tin Angel Posted: December 03, 2017 at 08:13 PM (#5585348)
Rooting for the Giants to sign him, but understand him being attracted to Seattle, or San Diego for that matter.


Rooting for the Giants too. Would love to see him in Oakland. Maybe Anaheim is a possibility?
   15. Blastin Posted: December 03, 2017 at 08:22 PM (#5585351)
Seattle has very little rain during the summer. Much less than New York.


Yeah it's an awesome place from like May to Sept. And then it's 52 degrees and soggy the rest of the year.
   16. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: December 03, 2017 at 08:31 PM (#5585358)
Well Ohtani is probably only worried about April to September (insert snark about October not mattering to the Mariners) and I can’t imagine New York is appreciably nicer (or worse) than Seattle in April.
   17. JRVJ Posted: December 03, 2017 at 08:36 PM (#5585361)
Well, if I'm the Yanks, I'd spend pretty much all of the money I gathered for Otani on the former Braves prospects who became FAs recently.

Even if they're no consolation price in re: Otani, might as well strengthen the Yankees farm system.
   18. Astroenteritis Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:03 PM (#5585368)
Do we know if Ohtani is actually leaning toward an AL team because of the ability to DH, or does anyone think an NL team might actually play him as a position player? Seems like a big risk to have one of the main rotation pieces playing the field as well.
   19. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:05 PM (#5585369)
The Yankees might now be more likely to bring back Sabathia for another season, and give Chance Adams a legitimate look in spring training. I wouldn't expect any huge moves, just filling out the roster a bit, although they could do something at DH. Given the available options, and the talent in the pipeline, I wouldn't do anything long-term there.
   20. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:11 PM (#5585371)
Had we heard anything at all about Ohtani preferring a small market?

No, and AFAIC that was kind of dickish of Ohtani not to mention that preference until now. Guess he figures he wouldn't be able to handle the pressure.
   21. Shock Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:22 PM (#5585375)
No, and AFAIC that was kind of dickish of Ohtani not to mention that preference until now. Guess he figures he wouldn't be able to handle the pressure.


What a predictably puerile response.

Pathetic.

It amazes me how older fans still act like teenagers when someone disses their favorite pile of laundry.
   22. The_Ex Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:27 PM (#5585377)
Are Seattle still owned by Nintendo people?
   23. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:28 PM (#5585378)
Rooting for the Giants too. Would love to see him in Oakland. Maybe Anaheim is a possibility?


Well if he's looking at "small market" I can't really see how either Anaheim or SF qualify?

If he was always fixated on "small market" and west coast, why have NY or Boston even fill in the questionnaire?

Surely with all the qualifiers, Seattle has be the front runner? West coast, smallish market, DH league, has success with Japanese players in past, a strong commitment to winning between 75-86 games per season!

   24. Khrushin it bro Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:35 PM (#5585382)
He's only 22 or 23 right? New York is a long way from Japan so it makes sense. He can always sign with them later.

I'm not sure why he would choose San Diego unless he surfs or hates the cold. I'd guess Giants, Dodgers, Mariners or hopefully the A's.
   25. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:38 PM (#5585384)
No, and AFAIC that was kind of dickish of Ohtani not to mention that preference until now. Guess he figures he wouldn't be able to handle the pressure.

What a predictably puerile response.

Pathetic.

It amazes me how older fans still act like teenagers when someone disses their favorite pile of laundry.


In case you hadn't noticed it, the Red Sox and the Dodgers were also the recipients of this dickish behavior, two of my least favorite teams. And I have nothing whatever against the Mariners or any small market team he decides to sign with.

Seriously, what is there to defend about a player who (along with his agent) waits until several teams have expended a lot of time and energy trying to get him to be interested in them, and then at the last minute he tells them that they never were in the bidding to begin with.

I'd say this was like John Elway with Baltimore or Eli Manning with San Diego, except at least those two players warned those teams well in advance that they had no intention of signing with them. Ohtani didn't even show this minimal amount of courtesy.
   26. ??'s Biggest Fan! Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:40 PM (#5585385)
Based on the info from the last 24 hours, why would CAA reps not try their best to get Ohtani to Houston? Champs, with the reigning MVP and a roster studded with young players who play in a mid-sized market. Ohtani is going to stick out like a sore thumb in Seattle or any small market teams. It seems like Ohtani is more concerned with how long his plane rides are back to Japan than actually blending into part of a team.
   27. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:46 PM (#5585389)
Seriously, what is there to defend about a player who (along with his agent) waits until several teams have expended a lot of time and energy trying to get him to be interested in them, and then at the last minute he tells them that they never were in the bidding to begin with.


Spare me. First of all, being concerned over wasted time and enery in pursuit of a free agent is beyond trivial, but also, do you honestly think that if he had stated his preferences at the start, the Yankees would have just shrugged their shoulders and said, "Oh well, guess we don't have to try now."? I seriously doubt that the Yankees would have spent as much as one fewer ergs if he had been upfront.
   28. PreservedFish Posted: December 03, 2017 at 09:51 PM (#5585390)
In case you hadn't noticed it, the Red Sox and the Dodgers were also the recipients of this dickish behavior, two of my least favorite teams. And I have nothing whatever against the Mariners or any small market team he decides to sign with.

Seriously, what is there to defend about a player who (along with his agent) waits until several teams have expended a lot of time and energy trying to get him to be interested in them, and then at the last minute he tells them that they never were in the bidding to begin with.

I'd say this was like John Elway with Baltimore or Eli Manning with San Diego, except at least those two players warned those teams well in advance that they had no intention of signing with them. Ohtani didn't even show this minimal amount of courtesy.


Wow, you are really bent out of shape about this. There's nothing even close to Elway or Manning here.

I'm sure that Cashman must feel much worse than you do, after all, who knows how many hours he spent on that memo that Ohtani had the gall to politely request? That could have been literally tens of hours wasted in the pursuit of a player whose unique modesty and ambition in spurning full free agency may create hundreds of millions of dollars of surplus value.
   29. Tin Angel Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:06 PM (#5585395)
Do we know if Ohtani is actually leaning toward an AL team because of the ability to DH, or does anyone think an NL team might actually play him as a position player? Seems like a big risk to have one of the main rotation pieces playing the field as well.

Alex Pavlovic‏ @PavlovicNBCS
Bochy told me Friday that Giants have mapped out a way to get Ohtani 300-400 at-bats and still pitch. The increase in scheduled off days will help

Well if he's looking at "small market" I can't really see how either Anaheim or SF qualify?

Mike Berardino @MikeBerardino
Sources briefed on Ohtani cutdown tell me "heavy West Coast" flavor to final list. #Cubs a possible exception along with SEA, SF, SD and both LA clubs.
   30. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:10 PM (#5585397)
How good is he with geography? Would he believe that Denver is on the West Coast?
   31. Astroenteritis Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:14 PM (#5585400)
Bochy told me Friday that Giants have mapped out a way to get Ohtani 300-400 at-bats and still pitch. The increase in scheduled off days will help


I tend to forget that he could get 3 or so at bats on days he pitches, so that adds to the total a bit. It hasn't taken long for my brain to adjust to AL thinking!
   32. vortex of dissipation Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:18 PM (#5585402)
It may be worth noting that Ohtani has played his career in Japan with the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters, the most geographically remote team in NPB. They play in Sapporo, on the northernmost main island of Japan, Hokkaido, the only NPB team on the island. It's a big enough city, almost two million people and the fifth largest in Japan, but it's nowhere near the population centers of Tokyo or Osaka. He may not feel drawn to those types of cities. In that respect, Sapporo is pretty much the NPB equivalent of Seattle. I think the Mariners and Giants have to be the frontrunners here. I would love to see him in Seattle...
   33. PreservedFish Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:24 PM (#5585407)
Bochy told me Friday that Giants have mapped out a way to get Ohtani 300-400 at-bats and still pitch.


I am so ####### excited that we are going to see this happen, an actual 2-way player.
   34. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:27 PM (#5585410)
32 - That’s interesting. I didn’t know that about the location of the FIghters. That’s interesting.

To address Jolly’s issues I’m not sure what is unusual about what he did. He started with the list of all 30 teams as presumably all free agents do. In his case unlike virtually every free agent all 30 teams had interest. After giving it some thought he has started the whittling process. It’s no more of a dick move than it would be if he woke up this morning and decided “I’ll sign with the Yankees.”
   35. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:32 PM (#5585413)
I tend to forget that he could get 3 or so at bats on days he pitches,


Last year Gio Gonzalez led pitchers in PA/G with 2.5. A reasonable expectation is closer to 2.25. Though since he won't be pinch hit for very often, that could be a little higher. Madison Bumgarner probably isn't pinch hit for very often, and his career best is 2.88
   36. PreservedFish Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:38 PM (#5585415)
It may be worth noting that Ohtani has played his career in Japan with the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters, the most geographically remote team in NPB.


Ah yes, the ham-ravaged hinterlands.
   37. Charlie Gibbs Fracture Zone Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:45 PM (#5585418)
Based on the info from the last 24 hours, why would CAA reps not try their best to get Ohtani to Houston?

Can’t imagine why not. Maybe they should ask Yuli Gurriel.
   38. Rennie's Tenet Posted: December 03, 2017 at 10:53 PM (#5585421)
I'm sure that Cashman must feel much worse than you do, after all, who knows how many hours he spent on that memo that Ohtani had the gall to politely request?


I would like to see how he explains that New York has "a small town feel."
   39. SoSH U at work Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:12 PM (#5585423)
Bochy told me Friday that Giants have mapped out a way to get Ohtani 300-400 at-bats and still pitch. The increase in scheduled off days will help


The only way he could do that with the Giants is to play an actual defensive position. That would be incredible.

I'm thinking Ohtani watched one too many episodes of Sunday Night Baseball.

   40. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:21 PM (#5585424)
To address Jolly’s issues I’m not sure what is unusual about what he did. He started with the list of all 30 teams as presumably all free agents do. In his case unlike virtually every free agent all 30 teams had interest. After giving it some thought he has started the whittling process. It’s no more of a dick move than it would be if he woke up this morning and decided “I’ll sign with the Yankees.”

Sure it is. But then I'm operating under the assumption that small town Ohtani didn't just wake up this morning and suddenly realize he couldn't handle playing for a non-small market team.

It wouldn't have been a dick move to have told the Yankees / Red Sox / Dodgers / Angels / Mets / Cubs / White Sox that he didn't want to play for a non-small market team, if he'd only done that to begin with. It's only a dick move because he wound up wasting their time by leading them on. I have to suspect that his agent figured that by keeping the big market teams in the picture up until now, he'd be getting a better offer from the small market teams. Or it might just be that he's afraid of the pressure in a big market atmosphere, who knows? He wouldn't be the first player who couldn't handle a big market fishbowl.

I'm sure the Yankees / Red Sox / Dodgers / Cubs will survive this quite nicely, since it's not as if they're short of existing talent, but I'm sorry, this was just a bullshit move on Ohtani's part, and it's got nothing to do with any one team in particular. It's just the belated reasoning he gave, when at the very least he should've just signed with whatever team he wanted to sign with and kept his mouth shut about the 29 others.
   41. Tin Angel Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:23 PM (#5585425)
I'm sure the Yankees / Red Sox / Dodgers / Cubs will survive this quite nicely, since it's not as if they're short of existing talent, but I'm sorry, this was just a bullshit move on Ohtani's part, and it's got nothing to do with any one team in particular.


He has said he would make exceptions for the Cubs and Dodgers. He decided at some point, recently, that he doesn't want to play on the East coast. Stop crying.
   42. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:46 PM (#5585432)
He decided at some point, recently, that he doesn't want to play on the East coast.

It's not like Ohtani is going to fly back & forth to Japan during the season, so this seems a bit perplexing. His choice of course, but I hadn't thought he'd want to confine his options to teams that mostly finished 20 - 40 games out of first place. But perhaps he's only really interested in one team?
   43. PreservedFish Posted: December 03, 2017 at 11:55 PM (#5585434)
Andy, you are nuts. You have no goddam idea when Ohtani made up his mind about anything. If the Cubs or Dodgers are still on the list, for all we know the presentations mattered and that he gave the Yankees a fair shake. Or it's just some #### his agent made up to justify some private reasoning. Or Cashman gilded his rejection by blaming it on factors out of his control. Who knows. Not me, not you. You don't really care how much time Brian Cashman wasted on a proposal. You are just whining because you thought that your favorite team (ahem, sorry, one of your favorite teams) was owed Ohtani, and at the same time you're now congratulating yourself on failing to reach those sour grapes because he "couldn't handle a big market."
   44. Walt Davis Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:07 AM (#5585436)
How good is he with geography? Would he believe that Denver is on the West Coast?

Having started following baseball in 1970, I can assure you that Atlanta and Cincinnati are in the West.

If he's looking for PAs and the Cubs are somehow still in the running, we must have a deal for Heyward in place!! :-) Seriously, the Cubs have no place to play him unless he's the back-up catcher.
   45. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:10 AM (#5585437)
I'm not as riled up about the whole thing as Andy is and as a Red Sox fan I figured my guys never had a shot anyway. However if Ohtani and his agent never intended in the first place to be on the East coast then it does seem a bit of a time waster to have NY, Bos, Baltimore, Toronto, etc go through the motions(yes, I'm sure some minion making $1.75 an hour filled in most of the paperwork) and pretend that they were in with even a slim chance.

Funnily enough, I'm thinking that DD had the same thought about the Red Sox chances and probably didn't expend a whole lot of resources towards the pursuit anyway.

I understand the young man can do as he chooses, but if you never intend to do something then you do come off as a bit of jerk about it. Almost Boras like, if you will.
   46. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:12 AM (#5585438)
The word from Heyman is that the Yankees were honestly in the mix until recently. He considered them, and then rejected them. Oh, how cowardly! How shameful! How can Ohtani live with himself? And we haven't even spoken about the Nationals, the Pirates, the Rays! Just imagine how many hours of work went into those slim presentations that Ohtani cravenly tossed into the trash. Why, all of these teams might have wasted as much as several dollars sending these proposals by overnight mail. Will noone else call for restitution?

edit > Hugh Jordan joins the crusade! Bully for Dombrowski. He was undoubtedly very, very smart to pooh-pooh the chance at signing a $200M player for $2M. I'm sure his front office staff had more important things to do, anyway. He probably didn't even spring for the high quality paper - he probably just FAXED his proposal. Haha, who looks stupid now?
   47. Batman Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:12 AM (#5585439)
The ESPN article has this window into Cashman’s world;
Cashman made his comments during the Heights and Lights event in Stamford, Connecticut, where he annually rappels off a 22-story building.
   48. Walt Davis Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:21 AM (#5585440)
On 2-wayness, I've noted before that Ruth really only did this in 1918 and 1919. Even then it was only a period of about 7-8 weeks in 1918 and May-July 1919 when he was taking regular turns in the rotation and playing the field in-between. 1919 was his worst season as a pitcher (as his K/9 plummeted to 2!!!) and he threw only 31 regular season innings the rest of his career.

Looking at those periods, his pitching summary looks a bit like this:

1918: 108.2 IP, 32 R, 23 ER, 8-4 ... no complaints
1919: 110 IP, 54 R, 40 ER, 8-6 ... not terrible but not snazzy, depends a good bit on how much blame he gets for the UER

Important bit there being he didn't really pitch any worse during those periods but maybe the dual load caught up with him in 1919.

Hard to deny the timing of the 100th anniversary of Babe's years as a two-way player ... so I predict he will sign with the Giants, be a two-way player for the next two years then will become the next Barry Bonds.
   49. Khrushin it bro Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:26 AM (#5585442)
where he annually rappels off a 22-story building.


Hope he doesn't let go of the rope about this Ohtani news.
   50. bookbook Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:22 AM (#5585445)
Wait a second. We have here a league of 30 billionaire owners who just recently changed the rules in a way almost expressly designed to reduce Ohtani’s earning power by as much as a hundred million dollars. And you’re complaining that he’s the one being a dick here?

The guy was, after all, just posted about a week ago. He could be taking his time, screwing the members of the MLBPA who, after all, conspired with the owners to reduce Ohtani’s earning power. He’s working his way very quickly through a difficult process before he decides who to give his professional baseball freedom for the next six years—probably the peak of his career—at a small fraction of his market value. I’m sorry your Yankees didn’t get a freebie, but this man is making one of the most important decisions of his life.
   51. tshipman Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:32 AM (#5585446)
Wait a second. We have here a league of 30 billionaire owners who just recently changed the rules in a way almost expressly designed to reduce Ohtani’s earning power by as much as a hundred million dollars. And you’re complaining that he’s the one being a dick here?


Yup.

It is a bit rich, isn't it?
   52. John Northey Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:03 AM (#5585448)
Makes a ton of sense that he'd pick a west coast team in the end. Playing both ways was listed as critical to him from day one so an NL team makes a lot of sense as I suspect he wants to be in the field too. In the NL he could shift from the mound to LF in the 7th inning or something and you just hope he doesn't get a play where he needs to throw it hard into the infield or put him at 1B. The Giants LF/RF situation was horrid last year (regulars were sub 90 for OPS+, no backup reached 100 OPS+) so if they get him and Stanton ... wow, from doghouse to penthouse fast. Also would reduce pressure on both players by having the other there. It'd be fun to watch, plus keeps both out of the AL (Jays fan here).
   53. villageidiom Posted: December 04, 2017 at 07:36 AM (#5585461)
Sure it is. But then I'm operating under the assumption that small town Ohtani didn't just wake up this morning and suddenly realize he couldn't handle playing for a non-small market team.
An alternate theory is that (a) he CAN handle a larger market, (b) he prefers west coast and smaller market, (c) he was willing to overlook those preferences if a team made a compelling enough case, and (d) the Yankees failed to make that case. The evidence, with some large market and not west coast teams still in the hunt, is that it was possible to make such a case. The world is not as Brian Cashman just painted it.

Most apoplectic Yankees fans I'm seeing after this IRL can't seem to fathom that the Yankees would not be chosen in any instance where they had a chance. The only possible explanation is that they never had a chance. Except they did. They couldn't overcome not being on the west coast and being a large market. Except the Cubs did, at least for now. It has to have gone down the way that Cashman said, which used easily refuted excuses and conveniently absolved himself. Please.

What I don't get is why this same phenomenon I am seeing from Yankees fans in person is coming here from an Orioles fan. Wait. (checks AL East standings) Ah, I get it now. Never mind.
   54. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:03 AM (#5585464)
It may be worth noting that Ohtani has played his career in Japan with the Hokkaido Nippon-Ham Fighters, the most geographically remote team in NPB. They play in Sapporo, on the northernmost main island of Japan, Hokkaido, the only NPB team on the island.

He'll miss the heady odors from the Matsumura Fishworks and the rhythmic noise coming from the nearby Tamaribuchi Heavy Manufacturing Concern.
   55. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:10 AM (#5585469)
Good line, fishbulb.
   56. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:22 AM (#5585476)
I have to say I have nothing but respect for Ohtani's decision. Unlike most of you bottom-feeding cockroaches I support the right of players to choose their place of employment. The reason you demand all these artificial methods to deprive players of their freedom is because you project your own greed and lack of character on to them.
   57. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:36 AM (#5585480)
Sure it is. But then I'm operating under the assumption that small town Ohtani didn't just wake up this morning and suddenly realize he couldn't handle playing for a non-small market team.

An alternate theory is that (a) he CAN handle a larger market, (b) he prefers west coast and smaller market,


That'd be a more convincing line if it had been made before non-west coast and non-big market teams were invited to submit bids, thereby jacking up the potential bids, but I suppose that would've been too difficult.

Most apoplectic Yankees fans I'm seeing after this IRL can't seem to fathom that the Yankees would not be chosen in any instance where they had a chance. The only possible explanation is that they never had a chance. Except they did. They couldn't overcome not being on the west coast and being a large market.

News flash: The same goes for the Red Sox and the Mets, who also got dicked by Ohtani's dickish bait-and-switch. I'm only mentioning that because I'm a Red Sox and Mets fan.
   58. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:38 AM (#5585481)
I have to say I have nothing but respect for Ohtani's decision. Unlike most of you bottom-feeding cockroaches I support the right of players to choose their place of employment.

I've got respect for Ohtani's right to decide to choose whatever team he wishes. I have no respect for the way he and his agent have conducted themselves with their bait-and-switch.
   59. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:38 AM (#5585482)
Sources briefed on Ohtani cutdown tell me "heavy West Coast" flavor to final list. #Cubs a possible exception along with SEA, SF, SD and both LA clubs.


Whoah! The Cubs can't even offer more than peanuts. They must have took their time to fill out the questionnaire!

Maybe they explained that Chicago would be a really good destination because the north side already worked all the racism out of their system with the unfortunate Fukudome t-shirts.

Otani not going to the Yankees is awesome.... him going to the Cubs would be spec-freakin'-tacular.
   60. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:44 AM (#5585485)
Morning reports seems to say that the final list is down to five teams that will be granted an audience -- Mariners, Giants, Padres, Rangers, and Cubs.

Hey, Shohei - can I call you that? - you just know that Joe would be the only manager that might actually let you play all 9 positions in a single game, right? Would like you be the 4th catcher, too?
   61. Rally Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:49 AM (#5585486)
Wait a second. We have here a league of 30 billionaire owners who just recently changed the rules in a way almost expressly designed to reduce Ohtani’s earning power by as much as a hundred million dollars. And you’re complaining that he’s the one being a dick here?


100x this.

What I'd like to see Ohtani do now is invite representatives of the finalist teams to compete on-camera for a reality TV series, ending with a Lebron James type decision. I don't think it will make up for what he's leaving on the table money-wise, but he can probably get some network to host it and pay him more than the teams left can pay in a signing bonus.
   62. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:53 AM (#5585487)
What I'd like to see Ohtani do now is invite representatives of the finalist teams to compete on-camera for a reality TV series, ending with a Lebron James type decision. I don't think it will make up for what he's leaving on the table money-wise, but he can probably get some network to host it and pay him more than the teams left can pay in a signing bonus.


I'm game -- we have the only team President I'm aware of who enjoys dressing in costume so I like the Cubs' chances in such a competition.
   63. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:58 AM (#5585488)
Narrative: Ohtani won’t consider a large market club
Reality: A majority of the teams he is considering are large markets
   64. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:58 AM (#5585489)
Andy you are embarrassing yourself.
   65. K-BAR, J-BAR (trhn) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:59 AM (#5585490)
I would focus on factors outside of the teams control even if the real reason is the screwed up the questionnaire. Say by focusing on tradition and clean shaven ness and Aaron Boone. Really, if I were considering several different places of employment, I might wish to hear Atlanta’s pitch because it’s theoretically possible I can be convinced to live there.
   66. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:11 AM (#5585493)
I've got respect for Ohtani's right to decide to choose whatever team he wishes. I have no respect for the way he and his agent have conducted themselves with their bait-and-switch.


I think the way they handled this was completely appropriate. Ohtani may have expressed his reservations and preferences to his agent, and they collectively decided to give everyone a chance to make their case in the interests of fairness - perhaps he could be convinced. Within only a couple of days he told the Yankees his would prefer a smaller team on the west coast. He didn't drag the process out, and he didn't require heroic efforts by the team to recruit him. Now the Yankees can turn their attentions and resources elsewhere now, rather than 3 weeks from now.
   67. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:15 AM (#5585494)
Within only a couple of days he told the Yankees his would prefer a smaller team on the west coast.


I co-sign the comment. And I'll add that we don't actually know if this is true - Cashman may have unduly emphasized this aspect of the rejection because it paints him as blameless. Or the agents may have over-emphasized this for any number of reasons, including politeness. "It's not you, it's me."
   68. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:18 AM (#5585495)
Sure, maybe he turned them down because they filled out the questionnaire using Comic Sans font. Whatever. I don't begrudge him the right to make the decision based on whatever factors motivate him. I appreciate that he appeared to give everyone a hearing and quickly told at least the Yankees that they weren't in the running. Now the team can look elsewhere as they prepare for 2018 - signing Sabathia perhaps, or working out deals with some of the players freed from the perfidious Atlanta organization. He's left the Yankees empowered to move on in a timely manner. That's character.
   69. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:20 AM (#5585497)
I find the West coast thing odd. Non-stop LAX to Tokyo is 12 hrs. JFK to Tokyo is 14 hrs and change.
   70. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:30 AM (#5585503)
I find the West coast thing odd. Non-stop LAX to Tokyo is 12 hrs. JFK to Tokyo is 14 hrs and change.


That ignores the fact that when flying out of JFK -- you get the experience of airport that seems more like a temporary fair grounds of makeshift tents and it remains the only non-Mexican airport where I've actually had to fight pigeons for an overpriced snackbox... in the terminal.
   71. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:31 AM (#5585504)
Wait a second. We have here a league of 30 billionaire owners who just recently changed the rules in a way almost expressly designed to reduce Ohtani’s earning power by as much as a hundred million dollars. And you’re complaining that he’s the one being a dick here?

The guy was, after all, just posted about a week ago. He could be taking his time, screwing the members of the MLBPA who, after all, conspired with the owners to reduce Ohtani’s earning power. He’s working his way very quickly through a difficult process before he decides who to give his professional baseball freedom for the next six years—probably the peak of his career—at a small fraction of his market value.


Sorry, no sale. If he was pissed at the owners and / or the MLBPA, which he had every right to be, stringing along a handful of big market teams that he had no interest in was a funny way of showing it. Was it only those selected big market teams that were privy to the rules he had to play by? What am I missing here?

I’m sorry your Yankees didn’t get a freebie, but this man is making one of the most important decisions of his life.

Again, I don't care what team he winds up with. I just like truth in packaging.

   72. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:36 AM (#5585509)
So Jolly must have been appalled when the Yankees said they wouldn't re-sign A-Rod but then did it anyway. Gimme a break, you sound like a jilted teenager.
   73. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:39 AM (#5585512)
That ignores the fact that when flying out of JFK -- you get the experience of airport that seems more like a temporary fair grounds of makeshift tents and it remains the only non-Mexican airport where I've actually had to fight pigeons for an overpriced snackbox... in the terminal.

I think you mean LGA. Most of the terminals at JFK have been renovated. They're very nice.
   74. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:44 AM (#5585514)
Whiny baby yankee tears are the best.
   75. jmurph Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:45 AM (#5585515)
So Jolly must have been appalled when the Yankees said they wouldn't re-sign A-Rod but then did it anyway.

That reminds me, who was the poster here that went on for years about this from the angle that somehow the Yankees hadn't caved? It was hilariously bizarre.
   76. SoSH U at work Posted: December 04, 2017 at 09:51 AM (#5585518)

Ohtani may have expressed his reservations and preferences to his agent, and they collectively decided to give everyone a chance to make their case in the interests of fairness - perhaps he could be convinced.


That was what I was thinking. Rather than being a dick, he might have thought that was the considerate way to handle it.
   77. asinwreck Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:01 AM (#5585524)
Clearly, Ohtani hates everything having to do with Aaron ####### Boone -- including the team he defeated with his HR.
   78. Baldrick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:05 AM (#5585527)
An international connection through JFK was the worst airport experience I've ever had. Second-worst was the other time I had an international connection through JFK.
   79. Conor Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:14 AM (#5585532)
That'd be a more convincing line if it had been made before non-west coast and non-big market teams were invited to submit bids, thereby jacking up the potential bids, but I suppose that would've been too difficult.


There are no bids to jack up. Everyone is restricted to their bonus pool, right? There's no way to use other teams to increase the amount of money he can receive.

The Yankees had the second largest pool available, so unless he goes to the Rangers, saying no to the Yankees will mean he makes less $.
   80. bunyon Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:22 AM (#5585542)
This definitely sounds like either Cashman is spinning or Ohtani's agents used euphemism in an attempt to let Cashman down easy (may need him in a few years, after all). It sounds like upon reading the memos, Ohtani didn't like the Yankees (among others). The CUBS are still in the running. So the whole "no big markets or non-west coasters" is clearly bunk.

It's business. Ohtani, after getting screwed on a deal where he had no leverage now has leverage. He's using it. He can keep anyone in or out of the running for any reason he likes. If the Yankees didn't want to risk wasting time on the memo, they could have not written it. Easy.

Which is to say, Jolly, I'm with the others who think you're way off base.
   81. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:28 AM (#5585550)
The CUBS are still in the running. So the whole "no big markets or non-west coasters" is clearly bunk.

I don't know what the Cubs' sales pitch to Ohtani looks like, but I would think they'd pretty heavily emphasize Maddon's particular proclivity for (and skill in maximizing the usefulness of) multiple-position guys. That might help explain why Ohtani would consider the Cubs even if in a vacuum he'd rather play on the west coast in a smaller city. Obviously none of the Cubs' existing players are pitcher/position player hybrids, but Maddon loves having half a lineup of Swiss army knife guys (Zobrist/Baez/Happ/Bryant/Contreras). Be fun to see what he could do with Ohtani.
   82. bunyon Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:28 AM (#5585552)
The Yankees had the second largest pool available, so unless he goes to the Rangers, saying no to the Yankees will mean he makes less $.

Right. The thing the Yankees had going for them was money. It turns out that it wasn't enough. Now, if Ohtani were a free agent and the Yankees could offer FU money it might be enough. But if you're not making FU money, living where you like is going to be the next consideration.
   83. bunyon Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5585553)
The CUBS are still in the running. So the whole "no big markets or non-west coasters" is clearly bunk.

I don't know what the Cubs' sales pitch to Ohtani looks like, but I would think they'd pretty heavily emphasize Maddon's particular proclivity for (and skill in maximizing the usefulness of) multiple-position guys. Obviously none of the Cubs' existing players are pitcher/position player hybrids, but Maddon loves having half a lineup of Swiss army knife guys (Zobrist/Baez/Happ/Bryant/Contreras). Be fun to see what he could do with Ohtani.


I agree. I guess my point is: Ohtani probably prefers Seattle all else being equal. The job for anyone other than Seattle to get him is to show that not all else is equal. My guess is Cashman emphasized New Yorkness and, for many people, that is a turn off. Rather than say, "I don't really like New York," Ohtani chose to say something he thought would be polite and face saving. But New Yorkness being New Yorkness, it flipped them out.
   84. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:33 AM (#5585558)
But New Yorkness being New Yorkness, it flipped them out.


Let's be fair. On this page, at least, there's only one Yankee fan that flipped out.
   85. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:35 AM (#5585559)
Ohtani probably prefers Seattle all else being equal. The job for anyone other than Seattle to get him is to show that not all else is equal.

Yes, agreed. And I agree that for the reasons you stated, St Nick's reaction's a bit overheated.

EDIT: My edit to 81 gets at your second sentence.
   86. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5585562)
The Daily News this morning says "What a Chicken."

LOL.

I'm biased, but I do know a lot of people aren't into this place (my wife included, yet she hasn't run away from me/the city yet).
   87. Lassus Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:36 AM (#5585564)
Maybe he's a Nirvana fan.

I dunno, I lived in Seattle. It's fine. Nothing that great. It's no San Francisco.
   88. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5585565)
So, wait, teams can't trade bonus pool money? I thought the Yankees had just made a deal to increase theirs in hopes of luring Ohtani. I was hoping to see the teams still in the running for two-way Shohei frantically trying to swing deals for more cash.
   89. SoSH U at work Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5585566)
The Daily News this morning says "What a Chicken


Who couldn't like working there?

   90. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:38 AM (#5585567)

I dunno, I lived in Seattle. It's fine. Nothing that great. It's no San Francisco.


I agree in this sense. And for people with pro athlete money, the fact that SF is even more expensive than NYC doesn't matter.
   91. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5585569)
I'm biased, but I do know a lot of people aren't into this place (my wife included, yet she hasn't run away from me/the city yet).

Of course, he could play in NY, and never set foot in Manhattan. Any Yankee who doesn't like the city has his choice of dozens of lovely suburban towns in Westchester, CT, or NJ, all a short limo ride from the Stadium.
   92. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:39 AM (#5585570)
Let's be fair.


Why start now? :-)
   93. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5585571)
I agree in this sense. And for people with pro athlete money, the fact that SF is even more expensive than NYC doesn't matter.

Unfortunately, Ohtani won't be making pro-athlete money for 3 more years.
   94. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:40 AM (#5585572)

Who couldn't like working there?


It's interesting to me. I love this city 65000 times more than I care for this country, but even I have never been attracted to cutthroat aggressive type jobs. So each person has their own ideal mix if given a choice, and he had a choice, and that's fair enough.

I bet Boston wishes David Price had picked a place he really wanted to be.
   95. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:41 AM (#5585575)
he could play in NY, and never set foot in Manhattan


Pretty sure Mussina didn't.
   96. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5585577)
Random aside. Joe Torre was on my Metro North train this AM.
   97. SoSH U at work Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:44 AM (#5585578)
It's interesting to me. I love this city 65000 times more than I care for this country, but even I have never been attracted to cutthroat aggressive type jobs. So each person has their own ideal mix if given a choice, and he had a choice, and that's fair enough.


For some people, that kind of atmosphere is great. But it really shouldn't be hard to imagine why not every personality is cut out for New York.

I grew up outside the city. I love visiting the place, but I never had a desire to live there.

   98. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:45 AM (#5585579)
Any Yankee who doesn't like the city has his choice of dozens of lovely suburban towns in Westchester, CT, or NJ, all a short limo ride from the Stadium.


Yeah most of them seem to live in the suburbs anyway.

They don't need to be on the subway or anything.
   99. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5585584)
I love visiting the place, but I never had a desire to live there.


Yeah my wife is definitely dragging me to Westchester whenever we have enough money saved to buy something (which may take 75 years).

Personally I nearly get panic attacks when driving (or being driven), whereas she feels that way on the subway, so Metro-North it shall be.
   100. Zonk Tormundbane Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:49 AM (#5585585)
They don't need to be on the subway or anything.


Things John Rocker would have loved to have known 20 years ago!
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