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Sunday, December 03, 2017

Shohei Ohtani won’t sign with New York Yankees | MLB.com

This is a shocker.

Jim Furtado Posted: December 03, 2017 at 06:32 PM | 181 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: shohei ohtani, yankees

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   101. Shredder Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:51 AM (#5585588)
Well if he's looking at "small market" I can't really see how either Anaheim or SF qualify?
Depends on why he wants to play in a "small market" I guess. Orange County isn't small in terms of population, but in terms of media coverage in its own market, the Angels probably qualify. They're a medium sized fish in a big pond, with a much larger fish in a moderately bigger pond not too far away, which sucks ups a lot of oxygen. If it's about the spotlight, the Angels are a good fit as a "small market" team. If it's about not having millions of people around, then they are not a small market.
   102. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5585589)
Yeah my wife is definitely dragging me to Westchester whenever we have enough money saved to buy something (which may take 75 years).


I think my brother still has an empty condo within walking distance of the train station. He really should sell the damned thing. Maybe you could get a deal.
   103. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5585590)
Yeah my wife is definitely dragging me to Westchester whenever we have enough money saved to buy something (which may take 75 years).

On the bright side, you'll be able to buy a 3000 sq ft house for less than what a crappy 2 BDR would cost you in Manhattan :-)

Personally I nearly get panic attacks when driving (or being driven), whereas she feels that way on the subway, so Metro-North it shall be.

There are a bunch of towns in Westchester than have lots of houses within walking distance to the train station. It's the advantage of Westchester being the oldest suburban area; it grew up before cars were prevalent.
   104. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:53 AM (#5585591)
I agree. I guess my point is: Ohtani probably prefers Seattle all else being equal.

He is conducting this entire process from Los Angeles so that might not be true. No one really knows what he wants so people are just guessing. The only clear preferences seem to be west coast teams and Japanese population centers. Unless I was a Dodgers, Giants, or Mariners fan I wouldn’t get my hopes up at this point.
   105. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5585595)
For many players the urban lifestyle must be virtually irrelevant. These guys only live for about 3-4 months in their "hometown" cities and have very few days off. (An MLB player spends almost as much time in FL or AZ as he does in his home city.) They work in the evenings, when most urban amenities are available.

It sounds like Ohtani wants to be able to put his head down and concentrate on baseball. The extra endorsement and media opportunities afforded by playing for the Yankees may well be a negative as far as he's concerned.
   106. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:56 AM (#5585598)
There are a bunch of towns in Westchester than have lots of houses within walking distance to the train station. It's the advantage of Westchester being the oldest suburban area; it grew up before cars were prevalent.


Yeah, I ran a half marathon in Pelham last week. That will not be in the price range, but I indeed plan to walk to the Metro North and only drive on weekends when she makes me. Heh.

And yeah, I'm not buying a stupid 500k studio here (although I live in Queens).
   107. asinwreck Posted: December 04, 2017 at 10:57 AM (#5585600)

I think my brother still has an empty condo within walking distance of the train station. He really should sell the damned thing. Maybe you could get a deal.

How large?
   108. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:00 AM (#5585603)
So Jolly must have been appalled when the Yankees said they wouldn't re-sign A-Rod but then did it anyway. Gimme a break, you sound like a jilted teenager.

I can easily list many things off the top of my head that have appalled me over the years about the Yankees' front office.** And if Ohtani hadn't have put in that belated line about non-big market teams, I would've been perfectly fine with whatever team he'd decided to pick.

P.S. I also don't want the Yankees to go after Harper or Machado or Stanton, because I like the idea of players staying with the teams that gave them their first chance and have treated them fairly.

** Most prominently, allowing Giambi to delete the steroids clause in his first Yankees contract. That alone should keep Steinbrenner out of the Hall of Fame.
   109. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:01 AM (#5585604)
P.S. I also don't want the Yankees to go after Harper or Machado or Stanton


How magnanimous.
   110. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5585606)
Yeah, I ran a half marathon in Pelham last week. That will not be in the price range, but I indeed plan to walk to the Metro North and only drive on weekends when she makes me. Heh.

Check out White Plains. A woman that works for me just got a house about 10 minutes from the train station for under $500K. Very reasonable taxes too.
   111. Conor Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:03 AM (#5585607)
And if Ohtani hadn't have put in that belated line about non-big market teams, I would've been perfectly fine with whatever team he'd decided to pick.


Did he put it in, or did Cashman? Aren't the Cubs still in the running?
   112. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:04 AM (#5585608)
We got married at the Federal Courthouse in WP, actually. And my wife went to Manhattanville. I feel like it's kinda far though - isn't that a 50 minute ride to the city?

Edit: It's 40. I guess that's only 10 minutes farther than the first ring north of town.
   113. eddieot Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:06 AM (#5585610)
Just catching up here. When did Jolly become such a Yankee crybaby?

Ohtani is the victim here, of a corrupt system. Poor little Brian Cashman even acknowledged the guy has a right to determine his future. After reading this whole thread I want him to sign with the Marlins or Padres. Jesus.
   114. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5585613)
Personally I nearly get panic attacks when driving (or being driven)...


My first instinct was to laugh, but given how dangerous driving is, I'm wondering if you're the only sane person here.
   115. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:07 AM (#5585614)
We got married at the Federal Courthouse in WP, actually. And my wife went to Manhattanville. I feel like it's kinda far though - isn't that a 50 minute ride to the city?

What year was your wife? My wife is a Professor at Manhattanville, and my mother was one until she retired.

It's much closer than that. Express trains are 35-40 minutes. 50 minutes is only for a full local.

And there are a ton of trains. Just looking now, 9 different trains between 7:03 and 8:03.
   116. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5585615)
Can't believe someone hasn't changed Andy's soiled diaper since last night, he going to get an awfully painful rash.
   117. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:09 AM (#5585616)
My first instinct was to laugh, but given how dangerous driving is, I'm wondering if you're the only sane person here.

I mean, it's not actually very dangerous. It's just that people do so much of it, the risks add up.
   118. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5585619)
2007.

Yeah I'm remembering the local train we took back to the city after the wedding.
   119. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:10 AM (#5585620)

I find the West coast thing odd. Non-stop LAX to Tokyo is 12 hrs. JFK to Tokyo is 14 hrs and change.
I find it weird that people are assuming he would prefer the west coast for its proximity to Japan rather than for the fact that most of the Japanese-American population of the U.S. is on the west coast (or Hawaii). Maybe he wants to, you know, live in or near a Japanese community? (You might say, "Well, there must be Japanese in NYC," and obviously there are, but the community is relatively small.)
   120. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:11 AM (#5585621)
I mean, it's not actually very dangerous. It's just that people do so much of it, the risks add up.


I'm an anxious person and I can't relax when I drive, so I just get really tense, which actually makes me worse at it, etc.

   121. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:15 AM (#5585625)
(You might say, "Well, there must be Japanese in NYC," and obviously there are, but the community is relatively small.)


Yeah they are mostly mixed into the UES; I used to teach a lot of trailing spouses from said community.
   122. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:17 AM (#5585626)
I find it weird that people are assuming he would prefer the west coast for its proximity to Japan rather than for the fact that most of the Japanese-American population of the U.S. is on the west coast (or Hawaii). Maybe he wants to, you know, live in or near a Japanese community? (You might say, "Well, there must be Japanese in NYC," and obviously there are, but the community is relatively small.)

According to Wiki, there are 20,000 Japanese in NYC, and 45,000 in the tri-state area. That compares to 37,000 in LA (can't find regional number) 9,000 in Seattle proper, and 11,000 in SF proper.
   123. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:18 AM (#5585628)
Yeah they are mostly mixed into the UES; I used to teach a lot of trailing spouses from said community.

It's funny, my town (Harrison) has a large Japanese expat population. There is even a Japanese HS, right next to the Manhattanville campus, that follows Japanese educational methods.
   124. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:22 AM (#5585631)
There is even a Japanese HS, right next to the Manhattanville campus, that follows Japanese educational methods.


Yeah when we went up for her 10th reunion this June she was telling me about it (she was an athlete, so she spent a lot of time on the fields that are next to it).

My wife is now curious who your wife is; I'm not going to ask her name, but what does she teach?

   125. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:23 AM (#5585632)
Obviously there are lots of Japanese people in NYC. My feeling is that the community is fairly scattered - it's a lot of businessmen and students, and not many families, and perhaps a corresponding lack of cultural activities. But who knows what Ohtani is looking for?
   126. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:25 AM (#5585636)
My wife is now curious who your wife is; I'm not going to ask her name, but what does she teach?

Chemistry. She's been there over 10 years. That narrows it down sufficiently.
   127. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5585640)
Cannot help but wonder if the "west coast proximity" is really more just the fact that when Ohtani was a kid, Ichiro-mania was in full-swing in Seattle... Didn't the Mariners also do a broadcast deal in Japan at that time, too?

So - when Shohei was playing little league, my guess would be that to the extent/if he was watching more than NPB -- it was probably the Mariners/teams Mariners were playing a lot that he watched most.

   128. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:27 AM (#5585641)
Obviously there are lots of Japanese people in NYC. My feeling is that the community is fairly scattered - it's a lot of businessmen and students, and not many families, and perhaps a corresponding lack of cultural activities. But who knows what Ohtani is looking for?

There are enough families to support a 400+ student, 27 acre, Japanese HS in Westchester.
   129. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:28 AM (#5585644)
There are enough families to support a 400+ student, 27 acre, Japanese HS in Westchester.

I didn't know that. Cool!
   130. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5585645)
P.S. I also don't want the Yankees to go after Harper or Machado or Stanton

How magnanimous.


I should've realized that I also had to favor not re-signing Judge and Sanchez in order to meet with your approval.

----------------------------------------------

Just catching up here. When did Jolly become such a Yankee crybaby?

Ohtani is the victim here, of a corrupt system.


I completely agree that all Japanese players are screwed by the system. I said as much in #71 on the previous page. But go ahead and keep pretending that all I'm complaining about is that Ohtani didn't sign with the Yankees. Hell, misrepresentation is what the internet is all about.
   131. ??'s Biggest Fan! Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:33 AM (#5585649)
Yeah they are mostly mixed into the UES; I used to teach a lot of trailing spouses from said community.

Fools! How can you ignore the entire Fort Lee neighborhood? It's about a 15 minute drive across the GWB to the Stadium and is home to a significant Japanese/Korean/Chinese population. Mitsuwa market is one of the best places to slurp some ramen. And you can't beat the view from thet side of the Hudson.
   132. shoewizard Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5585651)
The notion that Ohtani is going to be able to step right in and successfully hit major league pitching seems pretty far fetched to me. If he were to play a year or two in the minors and develop further as a hitter it might be different. But there are no examples of any young hitters this young coming over from Japan and being instantly successful, of course due to the fact that they usually can't contractually. That said...

Ichiro was 27 and Hideki Matsui was 29 when they made the transition, and both were all world hitters in Japan before they came over.

Other more moderately successful Japanese players that came over, including Nori Aoki, Kaz Matsui, and Kosuke Fukudome all had really good careers in Japan over many more seasons and PA than Ohtani has had, and in their late 20's or at age 30 made the transition to MLB.

If he goes to Giants, I LOVE the fact that Bochy is talking about getting him 300-400 at bats. That means a guy that has the potential to be a great pitcher who can help himself at the plate, will instead , while facing the rigors of the MLB pitching, and MLB schedule, be exposed playing the field 2-3 days a week when not pitching.

report link

Player                 PA From   To   Age    G  HR  BB   SO  SB  CS   BA  OBP  SLG  OPS      Pos
Ichiro Suzuki       10681 2001 2017 27
-43 2636 117 643 1072 509 117 .312 .355 .403 .759 *98H7/D1
Hideki Matsui        5066 2003 2012 29
-38 1236 175 547  689  13   9 .282 .360 .462 .822   7D/8H9
Norichika Aoki       3044 2012 2017 30
-35  758  33 234  258  98  44 .285 .350 .387 .738 *97/H8D1
Kazuo Matsui         2555 2004 2010 28
-34  630  32 179  403 102  18 .267 .321 .380 .701    *46/H
Kosuke Fukudome      2276 2008 2012 31
-35  596  42 307  402  29  29 .258 .359 .395 .754  *98/H7D
Tadahito Iguchi      2079 2005 2008 30
-33  493  44 189  387  48  13 .268 .338 .401 .739    *4/HD
Akinori Iwamura      1755 2007 2010 28
-31  408  16 183  330  32  16 .267 .345 .375 .720   *45/HD
Kenji Johjima        1722 2006 2009 30
-33  462  48  66  148   7   5 .268 .310 .411 .721    *2/HD
So Taguchi           1524 2002 2009 32
-39  672  19 102  195  39  12 .279 .332 .385 .717  78H9/4D
Tsuyoshi Shinjo       960 2001 2003 29
-31  303  20  55  128   9   6 .245 .299 .370 .668   *8/79H
Munenori Kawasaki     738 2012 2016 31
-35  276   1  70  119  12   4 .237 .320 .289 .609   46/H5D
Tsuyoshi Nishioka     254 2011 2012 26
-27   71   0  16   44   2   4 .215 .267 .236 .503   /*64HD
Norihiro Nakamura      41 2005 2005 31-31   17   0   2    7   0   0 .128 .171 .179 .350  /*5H364
Kensuke Tanaka         34 2013 2013 32-32   15   0   4    3   2   0 .267 .353 .267 .620     /*7H 


Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Play Index Tool Used
Generated 12/4/2017.
   133. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:34 AM (#5585652)
When did Jolly become such a Yankee crybaby?

1948.
   134. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:37 AM (#5585657)
Use <pre></pre> to make a table. Or the code button.
   135. Lance Reddick! Lance him! Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:38 AM (#5585660)
Never mind...
   136. Blastin Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:39 AM (#5585662)
I didn't realize Hideki had the most HR for an NPB MLB player but I suppose I'm not sure who else it could have been.
   137. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5585663)
According to Wiki, there are 20,000 Japanese in NYC, and 45,000 in the tri-state area. That compares to 37,000 in LA (can't find regional number) 9,000 in Seattle proper, and 11,000 in SF proper.
There are 134,000 people of Japanese ethnicity in the LA metro area. But it may not just be raw numbers; that 45,000 people in the NY metro area are a tiny fraction of the metro area population (0.2%), scattered across the region. The LA figure is 5x as high, on a percentage basis; the Seattle figure (27k in the metro area) is 4x as high. In SF, it's 39k in the metro area -- but that doesn't include the 25K people in San Jose. And that's, again 5x as high in percentage terms.
   138. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:41 AM (#5585665)
Andy, nobody is misrepresenting your words. We can all read, and we can all see you asserting, again and again, that your Yankees fandom has nothing to do with your position. Nobody buys it.
   139. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:46 AM (#5585674)
The Yankees pitch has been leaked.... I can see why it didn't fly.
   140. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:50 AM (#5585680)
When did Jolly become such a Yankee crybaby?

1948.

Hey, don't sell me short. I was probably crying in my crib when the Yanks got swept by the St. Looie Browns at the end of the 1944 season. Stupid World War II draft!
   141. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:53 AM (#5585684)
Andy, nobody is misrepresenting your words. We can all read, and we can all see you asserting, again and again, that your Yankees fandom has nothing to do with your position. Nobody buys it.

Not everyone views sports rooting in your apparent binary way, but then I wouldn't expect anyone with YDS to believe anything that any Yankees fan says.
   142. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:57 AM (#5585689)
Not everyone views sports rooting in your apparent binary way, but then I wouldn't expect anyone with YDS to believe anything that any Yankees fan says.


Do the realistic, thoughtful and measured responses from the other Yankees fans in the thread also indicate derangement?
   143. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:58 AM (#5585690)
The Yankees pitch has been leaked.... I can see why it didn't fly.

Wait, Morty Funkhouser is Japanese?
   144. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5585691)
Not everyone views sports rooting in your apparent binary way, but then I wouldn't expect anyone with YDS to believe anything that any Yankees fan says.

Do the realistic and measured responses from the other Yankees fans in the thread also indicate derangement?


Translation: Yankees fans are kosher whenever they agree with non-Yankees fans.
   145. PepTech, Intermittently Stable Genius Posted: December 04, 2017 at 11:59 AM (#5585692)
I didn't realize Hideki had the most HR for an NPB MLB player but I suppose I'm not sure who else it could have been...
...only because Suzuki! didn't want to ;)
   146. Bug Selig Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:00 PM (#5585693)
I have to suspect that his agent figured that by keeping the big market teams in the picture up until now, he'd be getting a better offer from the small market teams.
Yes, you really said that, Jolly.
   147. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:00 PM (#5585695)
Okay, enough of this. I hope Ohtani signs with the Mariners or Rangers so that at least I'll get to see him a couple of dozen times a year.
   148. winnipegwhip Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:05 PM (#5585699)
As a Yankee fan I wish to thank Ohtani from saving us from "OH Baby. He hit it A Tonny!!!," 25-40 times a year.
   149. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:07 PM (#5585701)
Translation: Yankees fans are kosher whenever they agree with non-Yankees fans.

Wow you are really a baby.
   150. villageidiom Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:08 PM (#5585702)
Most apoplectic Yankees fans I'm seeing after this IRL can't seem to fathom that the Yankees would not be chosen in any instance where they had a chance. The only possible explanation is that they never had a chance. Except they did. They couldn't overcome not being on the west coast and being a large market.

News flash: The same goes for the Red Sox and the Mets, who also got dicked by Ohtani's dickish bait-and-switch. I'm only mentioning that because I'm a Red Sox and Mets fan.
Wow, there's literally no team you're not a fan of. ;-) (Yeah, I know what you meant.)

Bait and switch? Uh, no, that's not what happened here.

Red Sox and Mets fans I know IRL aren't reacting the way Yankees fans are. They also don't have a GM who is spouting off easily disproven nonsense to defend his failure to get Ohtani. But just because Yankees fans have been given the verbal ejaculations of their GM doesn't mean they have to swallow them. They're now acting like the Yankees had no chance. They very likely had some chance, but even if you assume Ohtani's preferences as stated by Cashman are correct there are teams that have overcome them, at least for now. The Yankees failed to do that.

Yes, the Red Sox and Mets and 20+ other teams also failed to do that. But the Red Sox and Mets fans I know have kind of shrugged it off as "oh well, wasn't meant to be" or in some cases have said "hey, at least he's not spurning us for someone else in the division". Yankees fans I know have lost it after seeing Cashman characterize the problem as stuff entirely outside their control, the same stuff that has not (yet) eliminated the Cubs. And the Rangers. And part of which hasn't eliminated the Dodgers, Giants, nor Angels. The simplest explanation for that is that Cashman, Mr. "I knew that our presentation was excellent", might not be the most reliable source of information on why the Yankees failed where other large-market teams did not. Fans of other teams aren't working with the presumption that he is.
   151. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:12 PM (#5585706)
Red Sox and Mets fans I know IRL aren't reacting the way Yankees fans are.

It's only Andy so far. And I gues he only counts a 1/3 of a Yankee fan, given his conflicting loyalties. Or is it 1/5? :-)
   152. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:15 PM (#5585713)
It's only Andy so far. And I gues he only counts a 1/3 of a Yankee fan, given his conflicting loyalties. Or is it 1/5? :-)

New York Daily News cover
   153. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:17 PM (#5585717)

New York Daily News cover


Tabloids gonna tabloid.
   154. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5585719)
Wow, there's literally no team you're not a fan of. ;-) (Yeah, I know what you meant.)

Yeah, and thanks for acknowledging this.

Bait and switch? Uh, no, that's not what happened here.

Red Sox and Mets fans I know IRL aren't reacting the way Yankees fans are. They also don't have a GM who is spouting off easily disproven nonsense to defend his failure to get Ohtani. But just because Yankees fans have been given the verbal ejaculations of their GM doesn't mean they have to swallow them. They're now acting like the Yankees had no chance. They very likely had some chance, but even if you assume Ohtani's preferences as stated by Cashman are correct there are teams that have overcome them, at least for now. The Yankees failed to do that.

Yes, the Red Sox and Mets and 20+ other teams also failed to do that. But the Red Sox and Mets fans I know have kind of shrugged it off as "oh well, wasn't meant to be" or in some cases have said "hey, at least he's not spurning us for someone else in the division". Yankees fans I know have lost it after seeing Cashman characterize the problem as stuff entirely outside their control, the same stuff that has not (yet) eliminated the Cubs. And the Rangers. And part of which hasn't eliminated the Dodgers, Giants, nor Angels. The simplest explanation for that is that Cashman, Mr. "I knew that our presentation was excellent", might not be the most reliable source of information on why the Yankees failed where other large-market teams did not. Fans of other teams aren't working with the presumption that he is.


Here's something else you may or may not believe: I had no problem when the previous incarnations of Japanese Superstars (Ichiro, Dice-K, Darvish, etc.) didn't sign with the Yankees, and I have no problem with Ohtani's choice of any of the other 29 teams. My sole problem with Ohtani was not laying his anti-big market cards on the table at the onset. You can choose to disbelieve this, and PF can choose to continue with his personal insults, but neither disbelief nor insults change what I've written, and written repeatedly.
   155. Spahn Insane, stool of Tarantino Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:19 PM (#5585720)
Hat tip to Moses Taylor from the Gonfalon Cubs thread, for whatever it's worth:

David Kaplan‏ @thekapman 12h12 hours ago

MLB executive just told me that Theo and Jed are pulling out all of the stops to impress Ohtani. “Theo and Jed are being incredibly creative with their pitch. They’ve thought of everything. And I mean everything. Still going to be tough to land him but they are in there hard.”

David Kaplan @thekapman 12h12 hours ago

Cubs have poured considerable time + money into their recruitment of Shohei Ohtani. According to an executive of a rival team that was eliminated they are a major threat to sign him. However, others I spoke with still believe West Coast teams have the advantage.
   156. The Yankee Clapper Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:25 PM (#5585721)
The simplest explanation for that is that Cashman, Mr. "I knew that our presentation was excellent", might not be the most reliable source of information on why the Yankees failed where other large-market teams did not.

Location seems to be more of a factor than market size. Since all the east coast teams were eliminated, I don't know why folks aren't taking Ohtani's camp at their word here. Are you trying to project your own feelings about the Yankees on to Ohtani?
   157. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5585724)
My sole problem with Ohtani was not laying his anti-big market cards on the table at the onset.

Dodgers. Cubs. Rangers. Angels. Giants.
   158. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:27 PM (#5585725)
My sole problem with Ohtani was not laying his anti-big market cards on the table at the onset. You can choose to disbelieve this, and PF can choose to continue with his personal insults, but neither disbelief nor insults change what I've written, and written repeatedly.


I'm like the 5th person to call you a baby in this thread.

And it's puzzling that you're sticking with this despite the reports that Chicago and Los Angeles teams are still on his list. I'm also one of about five people to note that Cashman might be less than reliable on his interpretation of why the Yanks were rejected, for totally obvious reasons, but you're still ignoring that possibility too. Why? Because you're just doing that stubborn internet arguing thing.
   159. shoewizard Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:29 PM (#5585728)
My sole problem with Ohtani was not laying his anti-big market cards on the table at the onset.


I'm not interested in debating your motives. Couldn't care in the least. (And I sympathize w/you if you feeling slightly frustrated by others trying to tell you they understand the depth of your emotions more than you do...haha)

However I'll just say I think you are wrong here because there is no reason for Ohtani to preemptively dilute whatever leverage or bargaining power he has. He got the teams to put their best foot forward. If he publicly excluding some markets before the fact, the proposals that came forward from other markets may not have been as advantageous.

I don't think there is anything to criticize about that.
   160. villageidiom Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:40 PM (#5585734)
It's only Andy so far.
And many of my local NYY fans here in central CT. That's where I was seeing it first. I kind of expected to see a more measured and/or rational reaction here, which is why Andy's comments here stood out from the rest. The local fans think based on Cashman's comments that Ohtani was dickish for making the Yankees go through the motions when he didn't give them a chance; and when the obvious flaws in Cashman's comments are pointed out they reply that Ohtani must not only be dickish but so stupid that he doesn't know Chicago and Dallas aren't on the west coast.
   161. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:46 PM (#5585737)
However I'll just say I think you are wrong here because there is no reason for Ohtani to preemptively dilute whatever leverage or bargaining power he has. He got the teams to put their best foot forward. If he publicly excluding some markets before the fact, the proposals that came forward from other markets may not have been as advantageous.

I don't think there is anything to criticize about that.


The unusual circumstances here make it very unlikely that Ohtani gets an extra penny by leading on other teams for bargaining power. The best interpretation is that Ohtani preferred the West Coast teams but decided to give the East Coasters a fair shake. In the end, he (mostly) stuck with his preference.

Not only is there nothing wrong with that, but the East Coast GMs would be nuts to feel bitter about it. If I'm planning on buying a Honda, I bet you the Toyota salesman still wants to show me what he's got.
   162. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:48 PM (#5585740)
Part of me hopes he picks Seattle, because I live here and it would be exciting. But another part of me thinks he'd rot up here on a mediocre club far away from the eyes of most of the country.
   163. Greg K Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:50 PM (#5585742)
Do the realistic, thoughtful and measured responses from the other Yankees fans in the thread also indicate derangement?

I'm assuming YR's #66 is the result of someone hacking his account. Realistic, thoughtful and measured indeed.
   164. Zonk, Genius of the Stables Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:54 PM (#5585744)
Hat tip to Moses Taylor from the Gonfalon Cubs thread, for whatever it's worth:


Really does seem like it would be quite the coup if Thed manages to lure him to Chicago....

Remember when Anibal Sanchez spurned the Cubs to stay in Detroit and they had to fallback on EJax? Seems like a lifetime ago.

That said, other than promising him two-way playerdom, I'm just not sure how many stops there are to pull out or what creativity can be employed in an offer.
   165. This is going to be state of the art wall Posted: December 04, 2017 at 12:55 PM (#5585745)
To be fair to Andy his reaction seems mild compared to some other Yankee Internet corridors. I guess New Yorkers will always react over the top when anybody rejects their city. It's part of their charm (really, it is, I kinda miss it). Like if he doesn't pick Seattle no emo Mariners fan is gonna go all Daily News or Andy on him. They'll blame themselves and go stare at the black hole sun sculpture.
   166. shoewizard Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:03 PM (#5585753)
The unusual circumstances here make it very unlikely that Ohtani gets an extra penny by leading on other teams for bargaining power. The best interpretation is that Ohtani preferred the West Coast teams but decided to give the East Coasters a fair shake. In the end, he (mostly) stuck with his preference.

Not only is there nothing wrong with that, but the East Coast GMs would be nuts to feel bitter about it. If I'm planning on buying a Honda, I bet you the Toyota salesman still wants to show me what he's got.


You might be right about the money, but obviously Ohtani is interested to know about a lot more than just how much he's going to get paid, and he is still looking to extract the most favorable terms with regards to playing time, position, and other potential perks associated with each Franchise/City.

   167. PreservedFish Posted: December 04, 2017 at 01:21 PM (#5585770)
Well shoewizard, there's one obvious flaw in that explanation. If he was using the offers of the Yankees and such to extract more perks from the teams he's truly interested in, he probably wouldn't have eliminated them from the competition so quickly.
   168. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 02:54 PM (#5585860)
I'm assuming YR's #66 is the result of someone hacking his account. Realistic, thoughtful and measured indeed.


You just haven't been paying attention around here. I've been the only adult in the room more often than Roy Moore.
   169. Stormy JE wanted to milk the soft power dividend Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:01 PM (#5585869)
There are a bunch of towns in Westchester than have lots of houses within walking distance to the train station. It's the advantage of Westchester being the oldest suburban area; it grew up before cars were prevalent.
On the flip side, some villages go without power for days on end whenever a thunderstorm passes through.
   170. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5585904)
The local fans think based on Cashman's comments that Ohtani was dickish for making the Yankees go through the motions when he didn't give them a chance


That seems kind of silly considering that Cashman was pretty gracious about it.
   171. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:30 PM (#5585909)
How large?


Pretty standard 2BR I think. No idea what it's worth.
   172. shoewizard Posted: December 04, 2017 at 03:47 PM (#5585938)
Well shoewizard, there's one obvious flaw in that explanation. If he was using the offers of the Yankees and such to extract more perks from the teams he's truly interested in, he probably wouldn't have eliminated them from the competition so quickly.


Thats a good point too. I was thinking about the homework assignment he gave them though, asking them to put forth their reasons why he should sign with whichever organization.
   173. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: December 04, 2017 at 06:07 PM (#5586064)

I've pitched for business a few times where the reason the client gave for not hiring us was something they already knew before they invited us to pitch in the first place. It's annoying, but it's not that unusual and I don't take it personally.
   174. Zach Posted: December 04, 2017 at 06:08 PM (#5586066)
My sole problem with Ohtani was not laying his anti-big market cards on the table at the onset.

So you're mad that Ohtani was vague about his objections in order to avoid giving a firm no to a respected organization he didn't want to offend?
   175. Zach Posted: December 04, 2017 at 06:21 PM (#5586075)
Because asking everyone to bid before politely saying no due to a reason that has nothing to do with the organization itself seems like the most Japanese thing ever.
   176. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 07:01 PM (#5586094)
My sole problem with Ohtani was not laying his anti-big market cards on the table at the onset.

So you're mad that Ohtani was vague about his objections in order to avoid giving a firm no to a respected organization he didn't want to offend?


I'm not "mad" at Ohtani. I just think he acted like a dick by not stating up front that he didn't want to play for big market East Coast teams. I'm not sure why this is so hard a point to comprehend. If he'd said up front, "Sorry, but I don't want to play for big market East Coast teams, which means the Yankees, Red Sox and Mets", that wouldn't have offended anyone.
   177. 6 - 4 - 3 Posted: December 04, 2017 at 07:29 PM (#5586102)
I'm not "mad" at Ohtani. I just think he acted like a dick by not stating up front that he didn't want to play for big market East Coast teams. I'm not sure why this is so hard a point to comprehend. If he'd said up front, "Sorry, but I don't want to play for big market East Coast teams, which means the Yankees, Red Sox and Mets", that wouldn't have offended anyone.

Ohtani: I'm not interested in playing on the East Coast.

Agent: Well it doesn't cost us anything to have them complete the questionnaire, so let's just open it up to every MLB team.

Ohtani: Whatever.

...

Andy (two weeks later): The guy's a total dick!
   178. Greg Pope Posted: December 04, 2017 at 07:45 PM (#5586108)
Wow, I can't believe everybody is piling on Andy for this. I mean, if Ohtani really did what Andy said, it can be looked at as a dick move. It's not like Andy said he should be suspended or barred from the Hall of Fame or anything.

Still, Andy, do you agree there's a possibility that:

1. Ohtani's agent did, in fact, tell the teams up front that he didn't want to sign on the east coast. It just wasn't made public.
2. Ohtani's agent sent the request to all of the teams even though he knew that Ohtani wouldn't pick some of them.
3. Ohtani didn't really make up his mind until later.
4. Ohtani was just being polite. "It's not you, it's me".
5. Cashman is rationalizing the decision.
6. Cashman doesn't want to be the bad guy.
   179. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: December 04, 2017 at 08:23 PM (#5586114)
Wow, I can't believe everybody is piling on Andy for this. I mean, if Ohtani really did what Andy said, it can be looked at as a dick move. It's not like Andy said he should be suspended or barred from the Hall of Fame or anything.

Still, Andy, do you agree there's a possibility that:

1. Ohtani's agent did, in fact, tell the teams up front that he didn't want to sign on the east coast. It just wasn't made public.


It's possible, though why wouldn't he have made that qualification public?

2. Ohtani's agent sent the request to all of the teams even though he knew that Ohtani wouldn't pick some of them.

Possible, but dickish on the agent's part.

3. Ohtani didn't really make up his mind until later.

Possible, but given his background, I'd say it's extremely unlikely. And contrary to what I said earlier in the thread, I don't think his motivation for nixing the Yanks/Red Sox/Mets was fear of the big market media hothouse. Though if I were in his situation, meaning with Ohtani's small town roots, I might well prefer not playing with Shaughnessy or the New York tabloids breathing down my neck. To each his own.

4. Ohtani was just being polite. "It's not you, it's me".

Possible, but again, why the delay in stating this?

5. Cashman is rationalizing the decision.

Always a possibility, though I can't see why he wouldn't be grilled on this if there were suspicions he was just making up what he was told.

6. Cashman doesn't want to be the bad guy.

Well, other than Donald Trump and Scott Boras, who does?
   180. Greg Pope Posted: December 05, 2017 at 08:40 AM (#5586214)
Fair enough.
   181. . . . . . . . . . . Posted: December 05, 2017 at 09:03 AM (#5586221)
FWIW, I have a fairly good Japanese friend, and he was puzzled by the decision as well. Seattle and LA make sense, but the rest of the choices are weird if the priority is a Japanese community with good access to home. Most weird is that NYC is unusual among the big US cities in that the most concentrated Japanese community (in the Edgewater / Fort Lee area) is a super easy commute to the stadium over the GWB; much easier than from similar neighborhoods in LA, for example. There’s also good air service to Japan from NY. (I think LAX and SFO are better and have non-stop service to Osaka, which NYC doesn’t have, but NYC has 2 flights daily to Haneda and 3 flights to Narita; for comparison ORD only has one flight to Haneda and Dallas doesn’t have any.)

I think Ohtani just didn’t want to play in NYC, which is perfectly reasonable.
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