Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, November 26, 2014

Should the Red Sox Be Afraid of Hanley Ramirez Being Hanley Ramirez? - Red Sox - Boston.com

Steve Silva runs down the list of Hanley Ramirez’s missteps.

Jim Furtado Posted: November 26, 2014 at 11:06 AM | 34 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hanley ramirez, red sox

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: November 26, 2014 at 11:13 AM (#4849942)
They should be afraid that he gets hurt all the freaking time and is turning 31 next month.
   2. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: November 26, 2014 at 11:26 AM (#4849949)
What I learned from this article: (1) Dan Uggla seems like kind of a dick; (2) the Marlins shouldn't have introduced a stupid Yankees-like rule dictating how players wore their hair; (3) we probably don't need to worry about Hanley having beer and chicken with Jon Lester in the clubhouse during games.
   3. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: November 26, 2014 at 11:31 AM (#4849955)
It'll be fine. Big Papi's outsized personality will keep Hanley in line and the clubhouse harmonious, just like in 2011-12.
   4. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 26, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4849964)
What I learned from this article: (1) Dan Uggla seems like kind of a dick; (2) the Marlins shouldn't have introduced a stupid Yankees-like rule dictating how players wore their hair; (3) we probably don't need to worry about Hanley having beer and chicken with Jon Lester in the clubhouse during games.


There's an interesting strain of contrarianism around here - it seems like whenever there is consistent, albeit anecdotal, evidence of Player X being a jerk, some people bend over backwards to interpret it as "everyone else is a jerk except for Player X."
   5. Famous Original Joe C Posted: November 26, 2014 at 11:55 AM (#4849965)
It'll be fine. Big Papi's outsized personality will keep Hanley in line and the clubhouse harmonious, just like in 2011-12.


You say that jokingly, but from yesterday's press conference:

"David, he's like my big brother," Ramirez said. "He's texting me pretty much every day and telling me what I've got to do, what I've got to change. I think he's part of my success in the big leagues ... I can't wait to be on the same team with him. It's going to be great."
   6. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 26, 2014 at 12:04 PM (#4849972)
“I’m sick of this s---,” Ramirez wrote across his chest using a Sharpie.

“I’m angry, I want to be traded,” said Ramirez adding, “It’s incredible, we’re big-leaguers.”

   7. JL Posted: November 26, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4849983)
There's an interesting strain of contrarianism around here - it seems like whenever there is consistent, albeit anecdotal, evidence of Player X being a jerk, some people bend over backwards to interpret it as "everyone else is a jerk except for Player X."


Probably because at least some of it seems manufactured. In this article, he is allegedly a malcontent because he did get the SS job instead of Renteria. The worst thing they could find was Ramirez saying:

“Of course I am hurt that I did not get the position I was expecting to fill,” Ramirez told Grossfeld in 2004. “But I will play wherever they want me to and, for that matter, with whatever team wants me. I just like to play ball.”


How is there anything wrong with this statement?

I also don't see the complaints about not wanting to move off SS to be that awful. He ended up doing it. That he was not pleased at the time seems pretty natural.

So after you see a couple of these, plus the language used to describe him at every turn, you start to wonder about what is the goal behind the article and whether the other incidents are really as they are portrayed.
   8. Jose is an Absurd Force of Nature Posted: November 26, 2014 at 12:27 PM (#4849996)
I think Ramirez is genuinely a bit of a dick. If the Sox aren't concerned about that they're nuts. At the same time he's in his 30s now and hopefully he's grown up over the years.
   9. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: November 26, 2014 at 12:45 PM (#4850012)
#7 - Sure, if you take every statement in isolation and interpret it in the light most favorable to a player, you can come to the conclusion that everyone else is a jerk. But that's pretty much exactly the bending over backwards that I was observing. Assuming the writer isn't just completely making stuff up, I think the overall impression is that Ramirez is kind of a jerk.
   10. PreservedFish Posted: November 26, 2014 at 12:55 PM (#4850022)
There's an interesting strain of contrarianism around here - it seems like whenever there is consistent, albeit anecdotal, evidence of Player X being a jerk, some people bend over backwards to interpret it as "everyone else is a jerk except for Player X."


This definitely happens here.
   11. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: November 26, 2014 at 01:04 PM (#4850028)
Gotta admit, I figured the idea that Hanley could be a bit of a dick had long ago moved from opinion to simple fact.

There's an interesting strain of contrarianism around here - it seems like whenever there is consistent, albeit anecdotal, evidence of Player X being a jerk, some people bend over backwards to interpret it as "everyone else is a jerk except for Player X."

Except with A.J., God bless him. He transcends this.
   12. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: November 26, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4850041)
Was half joking in 3 -- there seems to be a tendency in Boston to assume that Papi's presence can cure just about anything, which doesn't seem entirely earned given the clubhouse mess a few years back.

In this case, he might be exactly the big-brother figure Hanley needs around, but maybe that's just fanboy wishcasting. It is encouraging that he's apparently willing to move positions -- besides general 'non-chalance', the major red flag from Hanley's history was getting pissy about being moved off SS in Miami.
   13. Nasty Nate Posted: November 26, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4850046)
Clearly Steve Silva is acting here as a media mouthpiece for the Red Sox front office. Take this as a sign that the Red Sox are trying to unload Hanley Ramirez, and are looking to tear down public opinion of Ramirez so they'll look good when they drop him.
   14. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: November 26, 2014 at 01:45 PM (#4850047)
There's an interesting strain of contrarianism around here - it seems like whenever there is consistent, albeit anecdotal, evidence of Player X being a jerk, some people bend over backwards to interpret it as "everyone else is a jerk except for Player X."

Where did I suggest that Hanley isn't a jerk? He probably is. I was listing the specific things I hadn't heard before.

More seriously, I find the Boston sports media tradition of trying to stir the pot by maligning star players (not infrequently players of colour) offensive, and was was trying to make the point that Steve Silva -- one of the leading practitioners of this art form -- was trying so hard to make Ramirez look bad that he overlooked everyone else's bad behaviour:

1) Accusing a teammate of faking an injury in front of the media, as Uggla did, is a completely dickish move that strikes me as worse than anything Hanley is said to have done (particularly when the teammate, no matter how big a jerk he may be, has a long history of genuine injuries);

2) I don't follow the Marlins and didn't realize they had a stupid haircut policy, which I can't blame Hanley for finding irksome;

3) I thought there was a certain irony in Silva -- a leader of the anti-beer and chicken brigade in 2011 -- using the Jon Lester/pizza quote to make Hanley look bad (would he prefer that Lester and Ramirez eat pizza together in the clubhouse during games, perhaps with a beer?)
   15. Darren Posted: November 26, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4850051)
I think there's some fair criticism of this article. It indiscriminately mixes hearsay/innuendo with well-documented problems and also mixes in injuries to boot. I really liked his reaction to the hair/dress code, too.
   16. Textbook Editor Posted: November 26, 2014 at 02:14 PM (#4850061)
Eh, it'll either all go well, or go meh, or blow up. But you could say that about almost anything. He hits, they win, it'll be fine. He doesn't hit, or gets hurt, they don't win, it'll be bad. Again, you could almost say this about any FA hitter, baggage or no baggage.

Look, I wouldn't have signed him, but I also wouldn't have signed Lackey either, and I'm not giving back my 2013 memories because I think he's a jackass.
   17. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 26, 2014 at 02:19 PM (#4850065)
Hanley is well known for insisting he plays shortstop; is he going to play shortstop for Boston?
   18. Nasty Nate Posted: November 26, 2014 at 02:26 PM (#4850075)
Hanley is well known for insisting he plays shortstop; is he going to play shortstop for Boston?
The plan is LF. Hanley is aware of it.
   19. Zonk qualifies as an invasive species Posted: November 26, 2014 at 02:32 PM (#4850080)
In Lester news -- Dave Kaplan reports that the Cubs have tendered a 6 year deal "north of" 135 million and it's currently the biggest deal on the table.
   20. JL Posted: November 26, 2014 at 02:34 PM (#4850082)
#7 - Sure, if you take every statement in isolation and interpret it in the light most favorable to a player, you can come to the conclusion that everyone else is a jerk. But that's pretty much exactly the bending over backwards that I was observing. Assuming the writer isn't just completely making stuff up, I think the overall impression is that Ramirez is kind of a jerk.


Please tell me what was wrong with the statement that I quoted and how I interpreted it in the light most favorable to Ramirez? Because I did not bend over backwards at all with it - I took the writers exact words.

But ignoring that, you pretty much ignored my point as well - when you have to work that hard to list up all your grievances, people naturally wonder how hard you are working to create the others in your list.



   21. PASTE, Now with Extra Pitch and Extra Stamina Posted: November 26, 2014 at 03:15 PM (#4850105)
The plan is LF. Hanley is aware of it.


In that case the Red Sox have a decent chance of getting their money's worth. Though between this and the Sandoval signing they really do seem to be going the way of the late-2000s Yankees--in a few years they're going to have three or four guys on their roster that need to play DH.
   22. Batman Posted: November 26, 2014 at 03:26 PM (#4850115)
I'm so tired of players like Albert Belle and Hanley Ramirez writing things on Hanley Ramirez's chest.
   23. Nasty Nate Posted: November 26, 2014 at 03:31 PM (#4850119)
in a few years they're going to have three or four guys on their roster that need to play DH.
Besides Sandoval, who do you mean? Pedroia doesn't profile as a future DH. Castillo is young and speedy. Hanley is an ex-SS who also is speedy. Assuming he is an adequate LF, I don't think he will need to be at DH just because he is injury-prone.
   24. ReggieThomasLives Posted: November 26, 2014 at 05:46 PM (#4850187)
Hanley is well known for insisting he plays shortstop; is he going to play shortstop for Boston?


i thought Hanly was well known for playing third when team insisted?
   25. Srul Itza Posted: November 26, 2014 at 06:01 PM (#4850195)
From the quotes in various recent articles, it looks like Hanley has come to terms with the idea that he needs to move off short stop to try to stay healthy. He's not a kid any more, and some people do mellow and mature with age.

It will be interesting to see how well he learns to play the wall, but aside from that quirk, left field in Fenway would seem to be a fairly easy assignment.

If he does have a short fuse or a think skin, though, he is in the worst town in MLB. Even worse than New York, because the Knights of the Keyboard in Boston really do seem to pride themselves on proving that they can be bigger pricks than anyone wearing a uniform. This is the group, after all, that gave us CHB.
   26. bigglou115 is not an Illuminati agent Posted: November 26, 2014 at 06:47 PM (#4850212)
How sure are we that LF will in any way keep Hanley healthier. Braves moved Chipper to LF and everything seemed to get worse. Are we counting on the monster to help here?
   27. Bote Man Posted: November 26, 2014 at 07:42 PM (#4850229)
Not gonna click the article, did he mention Hanley playing kickball with the batted ball in Miami? That has to go down as a classic Hanley D.G.A.S. move for which Fredi benched him.
   28. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 26, 2014 at 07:57 PM (#4850232)
After the 2004 championship season, the Red Sox let shortstop Orlando Cabrera walk due to what was widely reported as “off-field issues” and signed veteran shortstop Edgar Renteria as Ramirez was thought to be more than a year away from taking the field at Fenway

Anyone know what the "off-field issues" were? Don't recall any such discussion here, but perhaps the memory fails.
   29. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: November 26, 2014 at 09:46 PM (#4850262)
I'm gonna be a bit biased here, but Hanley seemed pretty awesome during his time here in LA. It's too bad that he couldn't stay healthy or play SS very well anymore. The Dodgers had darned near no place to play him if they would have re-signed him.

He might very well be a jerk, but that stuff didn't seem to come out with the Dodgers during the last couple of years.
   30. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Fred Posted: November 26, 2014 at 10:19 PM (#4850270)
Anyone know what the "off-field issues" were? Don't recall any such discussion here, but perhaps the memory fails.
Absolutely no citations and I don't remember where I even heard this, so probably just a baseless rumor, but I remember hearing that he was involved with an underage girl.
   31. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 26, 2014 at 10:31 PM (#4850271)
Absolutely no citations and I don't remember where I even heard this, so probably just a baseless rumor, but I remember hearing that he was involved with an underage girl.

Googling "Orlando Cabrera+underage" produces quite a few hits, none of which seem to be mainstream news media or especially authoritative - blogs possibly less reliable than BBTF - so it seems like that rumor was widely circulated, even if it didn't appear here.
   32. sinicalypse Posted: November 26, 2014 at 11:31 PM (#4850285)
speaking of orlando cabrera, i wonder what these latino guys do when they retire from baseball.... do they stay in america and keep on rockin in the free world? do they go back to their homeland and live like veritable demigods?

i remember that when vladimir guerrero went out to pasture early in the 2012 season (before the jays ultimately signed him and he mashed in a couple of lower minor leagues b4 the comeback ended in AAA) i heard that he ended up in a bar fight in miami, which led me to picture a drunken and sullen vlad sitting at the bar and some guy came up and razzed him and vlad wasn't having none of that and BLAM!

of course, at the time i was irrationally hoping that the "all in" 2012 marlins might sign him to play first base. it's funny what you'll think up when you wanna see your favorite ballplayer have one more go for his age 37 season.

oh and of course vlad showed up for a first pitch to open either the 2013 or 2014 season with the angels all fat and jolly and, of course since he's vladimir f***ing guerrero he proceeded to throw out the first pitch and begin a chain of events that somehow resulted in don baylor breaking his leg. i was reminded of that tommy lasorda incident in the all star game where vlad put him on his ass. ah well, cest la vie with my favorite ballplayer of all time.
   33. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: November 27, 2014 at 08:43 PM (#4850519)
The other story about Cabrera in Boston was that he slept with somebody's wife.
   34. Joe Bivens, Slack Rumped Rutabaga Head Posted: November 27, 2014 at 09:33 PM (#4850531)
He might very well be a jerk, but that stuff didn't seem to come out with the Dodgers during the last couple of years.


According to Ramirez himself, Pedroia called him and welcomed him to the team. I don't think he'll have any problems fitting in.
   35. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: November 27, 2014 at 09:52 PM (#4850532)
i remember that when vladimir guerrero went out to pasture early in the 2012 season (before the jays ultimately signed him and he mashed in a couple of lower minor leagues b4 the comeback ended in AAA) i heard that he ended up in a bar fight in miami,


Of course the guy he ended up clocking ducked about 2 feet out of range and Vlad still managed to hit him!

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
The Piehole of David Wells
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogSale of Baseball Prospectus
(320 - 1:17am, Nov 17)
Last: Red Voodooin

Sox TherapyLet’s Get Off-Seasoning!
(6 - 12:26am, Nov 17)
Last: The Run Fairy

NewsblogOT - NBA Thread (2018-19 season kickoff edition)
(2473 - 12:14am, Nov 17)
Last: PJ Martinez

NewsblogOT - Catch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (November 2018)
(434 - 12:11am, Nov 17)
Last: Dog on the sidewalk

NewsblogMichael Wilbon Weighs In On Jacob deGrom With Worst Baseball Take Of Year | MLB | NESN.com
(8 - 10:45pm, Nov 16)
Last: ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick

NewsblogMarlins get rid of orange, cite South Florida cultures with new look
(28 - 8:57pm, Nov 16)
Last: You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR)

NewsblogHow Kevin Brown Became Baseball's First $100 Million Man
(9 - 8:46pm, Nov 16)
Last: TVerik, who wonders what the hell is "Ansky"

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 11-16-2018
(10 - 8:30pm, Nov 16)
Last: crict

NewsblogIndians' Trevor Bauer pleads his own Cy Young case using a spreadsheet on Twitter
(24 - 8:01pm, Nov 16)
Last: the Hugh Jorgan returns

NewsblogFox Sports inks multi-year rights agreement with Major League Baseball
(30 - 8:00pm, Nov 16)
Last: QLE

NewsblogJoe Mauer Retires After 15 Seasons
(84 - 6:44pm, Nov 16)
Last: Never Give an Inge (Dave)

NewsblogOT: Soccer Thread (2018-19 season begins!)
(1216 - 5:35pm, Nov 16)
Last: AuntBea calls himself Sky Panther

NewsblogYelich, Betts Win MVPs
(54 - 5:28pm, Nov 16)
Last: The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott)

NewsblogHow Mets, deGrom could get their contract extension done
(4 - 5:18pm, Nov 16)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogAL Central Offseason Preview
(16 - 4:51pm, Nov 16)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.3386 seconds
46 querie(s) executed