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Monday, April 30, 2007

Shysterball: Calcaterra: Too Soon?

Let’s all welcome Primer origimate, Craig Calcaterra…back to the baseball blogging world.

Josh Hancock’s death sucks. Sucks for his family. Sucks for his teammates. Sucks for anyone that knew and loved him, as anyone’s death does for the people who are left behind.

But we’re not those people, so we’re allowed to reflect for a couple of moments and then get right back to it. We’re allowed to silently wonder whether Hancock—a mop-up reliever with a relatively short tenure with the team—is worthy of the same kind of treatment front-of-the-rotation-starter Daryl Kile received at his untimely passing five years ago. We’ll do it with the appropriate amount of respect, but we’ll wonder.

We’re also allowed to wonder—at least until the autopsy results come back—whether Hancock was driving drunk at the time of his accident. Hey, I don’t know and you don’t know either, and the last thing we should do is engage in innuendo, but the fact remains that the man hit a parked car at a high rate of speed late on a Saturday night, so such speculation is not baseless. Let’s just wait for the evidence to find out.

Repoz Posted: April 30, 2007 at 06:24 PM | 56 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals, obituaries

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   1. Sean McNally Posted: April 30, 2007 at 06:40 PM (#2350072)
First, great post by Craig ... one of the unfortunate by-products of this 24-hour news and sports cycle is the rise of the instant-pundits - assigning blame and positing theories before any facts are in.


And second... demerit for Repoz - how do you not get a "craig's wife" reference into the intro.
   2. Jeff K. Posted: April 30, 2007 at 06:45 PM (#2350075)
But how is his wife?
   3. Jeff K. Posted: April 30, 2007 at 06:46 PM (#2350077)
Damn you, McNally.
   4. Sean McNally Posted: April 30, 2007 at 06:48 PM (#2350079)
And kudos go to Jeff...
   5. Sean McNally Posted: April 30, 2007 at 06:50 PM (#2350080)
How many primates even remember those heady days... without looking at the wiki that is.
   6. Dag Nabbit has the talking pillow Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:00 PM (#2350085)
I remember Voros posted on the original Craig's wife thread. Whatever happened to him? He was here, went to work for the Red Sox, stopped working for them, posted here in late '05 and . . . . that's it. Where are the McCrackens of yesteryear?
   7. Repoz Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:04 PM (#2350089)
And second... demerit for Repoz - how do you not get a "craig's wife" reference into the intro.

Craig asked me not to...something about his wife running off with Mike Kekich's nephew...:)
   8. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:06 PM (#2350092)
"It would be irresponsible not to speculate."
   9. Repoz Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:16 PM (#2350101)
Where are the McCrackens of yesteryear?

He's been roundtabled...
   10. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:18 PM (#2350105)
How many primates even remember those heady days... without looking at the wiki that is.


That's gotta be about five years ago already, IIRC.
   11. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:20 PM (#2350108)
How many primates even remember those heady days

I do. Craig, Shredder when he posted all the time, the Beeeah Guy, Rifkin's phonebook-length lead-ins. Those were the days.

He's been roundtabled...


Didn't Alan Schwarz write something about that?
   12. SoSH U at work Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:27 PM (#2350114)
How many primates even remember those heady days... without looking at the wiki that is.


That was my Primer brush with greatness. I was engaged in debate with Craig (under my real name, lost to a previous e-mail address) when he broke out the wife-sleeping-with Reilly remark.

I am glad to see him blogging again, as I generally enjoyed his efforts.
   13. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:27 PM (#2350115)
Are you the biggest idiot ever?

Some things probably should have remained in 2002.

The wife is fine. She's now married to Rick Reilly and works as the scheduler at a urinalysis lab. Says I gave her the idea. Women.
   14. Best Regards, L.M. Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:31 PM (#2350119)
And the kittens?
   15. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: April 30, 2007 at 07:39 PM (#2350129)
This is the highlight of my Primer career. It all went downhill form there. (That was a better thread before some of the posts disappeared.)
   16. Meatwads stronger now, ready for the house Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:06 PM (#2350148)
speaking of the wiki, who put up the picture of albright, replacing the akbar one?
   17. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:23 PM (#2350161)
Dag, Voros is working as a district attorney in Baltimore. Oh wait, that's Robert Hoover.
   18. Shredder Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:25 PM (#2350163)
I didn't even know there was a Primate Studies in 2001. I thought that didn't start until sometime later, like 2003.
   19. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:31 PM (#2350169)
And the kittens?


Hee hee. I almost won a Primey with that one.

Dang, we've been around a long time eh guys?

Best Regards

John
   20. Best Regards, L.M. Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:31 PM (#2350170)
It seems most likely that Jim moved that post over to the Primate Studies blog because he felt that it fit there after the site moved to the ee software.
   21. Dan Szymborski Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:35 PM (#2350177)
Glad to see Craig around - it's been a while!

On Hancock, it was kind of creepy - I was driving in St. Louis for the first time this weekend (visiting friends) and was thinking "who designed this shitty highway?" like a mile from where Hancock was killed. I was more careful on my way back to 70 this morning than I was going there.
   22. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:47 PM (#2350185)
It seems most likely that Jim moved that post over to the Primate Studies blog because he felt that it fit there after the site moved to the ee software.


Right. That article originally appeared in Visitors' Dugout.
   23. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: April 30, 2007 at 08:51 PM (#2350189)
Hey Craig--remember this?

++++++++++++++++++++++
Posted 3:17 p.m., October 29, 2002 (#42) - John Brattain (e-mail)
"And John, things may be exciting at the Calcaterra house, but Mong's the one with actual evidence of marital shennanigans; me and the Mrs. only have two cats at this point."

Well keep trying Craig, you're bound to have a human baby sooner or later. I just have to ask: if the delivery is difficult, what does the doctor use to deliver the kitten--forceps or does he just try to lure it out by dangling a piece of string? ;-)

Best Regards

John
++++++++++++++++++++++

Best Regards

John
   24. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 30, 2007 at 09:01 PM (#2350195)
I do. But I had forgotten than Muser was being discussed for the Seattle job. Scary!

Well, I'm happy to say that we finally did have human babies. Two of them. Still have the two referenced cats too, with an extra one added last year.

Craig's wife thinks he works late. Craig really just likes to avoid going to a home in which he is outnumbered 6-1.
   25. Dag Nabbit has the talking pillow Posted: April 30, 2007 at 09:08 PM (#2350201)
I do. Craig, Shredder when he posted all the time, the Beeeah Guy, Rifkin's phonebook-length lead-ins. Those were the days.

The days of John Freakin' Mabry and Economically Illiterate #######. When Brattain posted Top 10 lists and Score Bard wrote poems. When 60 posts was a long thread, and steroids weren't an issue.

This is the highlight of my Primer career. It all went downhill form there. (That was a better thread before some of the posts disappeared.)

I'll always remember you as the guy who kicked off the Dig the 1950s thread.
   26. bunyon Posted: April 30, 2007 at 09:26 PM (#2350220)
Best Regards

John
++++++++++++++++++++++

Best Regards

John


At least some things never change.
   27. NTNgod Posted: April 30, 2007 at 09:32 PM (#2350225)
Now we've found out about Craig's wife - which is the first thing any old-timer thought about at the mention of Craig:

We’re also allowed to wonder—at least until the autopsy results come back—whether Hancock was driving drunk at the time of his accident.


I posted a blurb from the overnight Post-Dispatch that kind of got buried in the Hancock thread.

The PD talked to the manager of the restaurant where Hancock was Saturday night, and although she referred questions about if he was drinking to the police (!?!), she did mention Hancock was offered a cab - even though he had his own vehicle.

You can put two and two together from that...
   28. Craig Calcaterra Posted: April 30, 2007 at 09:45 PM (#2350241)
NTN: I think someone else had some intelligence in another thread (i.e. that Hancock was a drinker) that, while certainly not definitive, points in that direction.

I don't offer this as some basis to launch attacks against the recently dead. He's dead either way. It's my take that no matter the circumstances of his death, the loss of someone is the loss of someone is the loss of someone, and no amount of hand wringing is bringing him back. Go forward. Remember the life and not the death. Deal.

But major sports leagues and big corporations -- especially those so closely associated with Anheuser-Busch -- don't usually think that way when it comes to drunk driving. If, in fact, Hancock was DUI, I wonder if the Cardinals and AB are going to wish they hadn't committed to uniform patches, a bullpen memorial and other attendant honors so quickly.
   29. Tony H. Posted: April 30, 2007 at 10:17 PM (#2350282)
I remember Voros posted on the original Craig's wife thread. Whatever happened to him? He was here, went to work for the Red Sox, stopped working for them, posted here in late '05 and . . . . that's it.
He blogs about another sport now...
   30. Repoz Posted: April 30, 2007 at 10:54 PM (#2350314)
I remember Voros posted on the original Craig's wife thread. Whatever happened to him? He was here, went to work for the Red Sox, stopped working for them, posted here in late '05 and . . . . that's it.

He blogs about another sport now...


I look forward to the forthcoming roundtable discussion in Soccer Portugal with Yasin Özdenak, Vladislav Bogi?evi? and "Stats" Shrovetide.
   31. NTNgod Posted: April 30, 2007 at 11:24 PM (#2350355)
KSDK: Hancock Was In Another Accident Days Before He Died
A few days before St. Louis Cardinals relief pitcher Josh Hancock was killed in an auto accident in St. Louis, he was involved in another early morning accident in Sauget, Illinois.

The Sauget community is like so many others throughout the area, mourning the death of a member of Cardinal nation.

But police in Sauget confirm that in the early morning hours of Thursday, April 26th, Josh Hancock narrowly escaped injury in another accident.

Hancock was involved in an auto accident in his Denali sport utility vehicle. It happened at Route 3 and Yellow Brick Road, about 5:30 a.m. The intersection is surrounded by popular after-hour nightclubs.

Police say Hancock was turning onto Route 3 when he narrowly escaped serious injury after a semi-truck hit his car.
...
The accident happened the same day that Hancock told reporters he had overslept and reported to an afternoon Cardinals home game late. The accident may explain why Hancock was driving a rental car at the time of Sunday morning's fatal accident.

A spokesperson for the St. Louis Cardinals tells NewsChannel 5 the team was unaware of the accident in Sauget.
   32. Darren Posted: April 30, 2007 at 11:46 PM (#2350378)
It's seems tasteless to me to suggest that because of his status as a mop-up reliever he should somehow receive less respect, in death, than did Kyle. I would hope that my workplace would treat the death of an admin assistant with the same importance as the death of a manager.
   33. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 01, 2007 at 12:06 AM (#2350425)
"It's seems tasteless to me to suggest that because of his status as a mop-up reliever he should somehow receive less respect, in death, than did Kyle. I would hope that my workplace would treat the death of an admin assistant with the same importance as the death of a manager."

It's not about respect, it's about media coverage. To a lesser extent, it's the same problem when some C-list whore with big tits died a couple months ago and that becomes the news story of the month. All the respect in the world to Josh Hancock's family, but there's nothing newsworthy about his death except that he was a minor celebrity and his celebrity status was not enough for us to pay attention to him when he was alive.
   34. Darren Posted: May 01, 2007 at 01:07 AM (#2350500)
I read "treatment" in the blurb above as the decision to cancel the game, not the media coverage.
   35. Craig Calcaterra Posted: May 01, 2007 at 01:37 AM (#2350556)
I meant media coverage. I think any team -- no matter the caliber or significance of the player -- is going to cancel the game and would be correct to do so. No, my office wouldn't shut down if my secretary died tomorrow, but my office is much bigger than a major league roster, doesn't share close quarters, and doesn't travel together as we compete against everyone for some ultimate prize. Also unlike baseball, very few of us see each other naked.

My comment in that passage was inspired by the fact that virtually every article written about Hancock's death plays up the "oh no, not again" angle re: Kile. While it would be distasteful to ask Tony LaRussa, for example, about whether Hancock's death is less of a blow, I think it's appropriate to discuss (a) whether the media is treating the deaths in a similar fashion; and (b) whether it is appropriate to do so.
   36. Darren Posted: May 01, 2007 at 02:17 AM (#2350616)
I'm sure that "oh no, not again" is a pretty reasonable take on how the Cardinals players are dealing with this. Two of their young coworkers have died suddenly within 5 years. I think the media gets that right.
   37. Craig Calcaterra Posted: May 01, 2007 at 02:38 AM (#2350638)
Agreed on the first pass. We're less than 48 hours out from this news hitting, and I believe that the media is accurately and responsibly handling all of this.

But we can't kid ourselves into thinking that, once the initial shock passes, there isn't a hierarchy of tragedy. Kile was a man with a wife and kids who died tragically of a disease he likely didn't even know he had. Hancock had no wife and kids and, if NTNgod's links are giving us the straight poop, he died after a night of drinking and irresponsibly taking the wheel. Throw in the fact that Kile was a 12 year veteran (3 with the Cards) and 3 time all star whereas Hancock was a journeyman reliever, and it is not out of the question to expect differential coverage.

Both Abe Lincoln and James Garfield were assassinated in the 19th century. To Mrs. Garfield and his closest friends, James' death was the harder blow. But only to them, and history got it right.
   38. Dag Nabbit has the talking pillow Posted: May 01, 2007 at 02:50 AM (#2350645)
Both Abe Lincoln and James Garfield were assassinated in the 19th century. To Mrs. Garfield and his closest friends, James' death was the harder blow. But only to them, and history got it right.

Lincoln invited his son Robert to Ford's Theater that night. Garfield was on a way to a meeting that included, among other, Robert Todd Lincoln when he was shot. Shortly after McKinley got shot in Buffalo, Robert Todd Lincoln arrived in the room.
   39. Devin has a deep burning passion for fuzzy socks Posted: May 01, 2007 at 02:57 AM (#2350650)
On the other hand, Johnny Cash never recorded a song about Abraham Lincoln being shot.

To update some stuff from the old thread (BTW, ironic that Gary Geiger made a cameo there), the Mets' Morgan number is up to 5: Kranepool-Orosco-Strawberry-Franco-Reyes. And my personal Morgan number is down to 4. My firm used to do Ugie Urbina's tax return, so count that as 2: Me-Tax Partner on the Account-Urbina. And then Urbina played with Rich Garces on the 2001 Red Sox, and Garces played with Morgan on the 1995 Cubs. (We still do the return of another person is baseball who is notably looked down upon by a person who posted in this thread. I cannot comment beyond that.)
   40. bunyon Posted: May 01, 2007 at 02:58 AM (#2350651)
Boy, we could use a man like Robert Todd Lincoln today.
   41. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: May 01, 2007 at 03:00 AM (#2350652)
I'll always remember you as the guy who kicked off the Dig the 1950s thread.

Thanks. That may have been my greatest accomplishment at BTF. Or, it may be my worst if you don't like thread hijacks.

He blogs about another sport now...

I took a quick look at it. I'm not a huge soccer guy, so it looks interesting, But a serious footy fan might be able to tear it apart.
   42. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: May 01, 2007 at 03:06 AM (#2350657)
(BTW, ironic that Gary Geiger made a cameo there)

I think that is where I grabbed the GGC handle from, that and it was sort of a homage to Repoz. He got his name froma Yankee fourth outfielder from the 60s, so I grabbed his Red Sox equivalent. If Repoz used Oscar Gamble and Huff as a handle, I may have become Bernie Carbo Monoxide.

BTW, in the thread that Brattain linked, Terry Francona was compared to Buddy Bell and Tony Muser.
   43. Foster Posted: May 01, 2007 at 06:04 AM (#2350759)
Boy, we could use a man like Robert Todd Lincoln today.


That was funny.
   44. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 01, 2007 at 02:54 PM (#2350918)
I may have become Bernie Carbo Monoxide.

Bernie Carbo Counter would work just as well.
   45. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: May 01, 2007 at 03:21 PM (#2350941)
Indeed, Dr. Memory. I never thought of that. What stinks (or maybe it's a good thing) is all the posts that I made with unregistered handles that disappeared. I think that I posted as Joseph Ellis in one thread to respond to Doris Kearns Goodwin stealing a George Carlin bit from Mike Barnicle.
   46. BDC Posted: May 01, 2007 at 03:27 PM (#2350948)
I just want to thank Repoz and Jon for inaugurating the tradition of fourth-outfielder handles.
   47. Repoz Posted: May 01, 2007 at 03:53 PM (#2350969)
I just want to thank Repoz and Jon for inaugurating the tradition of fourth-outfielder handles.

The Ray Jablonski Murders
Bob Coluccio's Department
Cliff Pastornicky Hopkins
Slinky Davalillo
Bottlecaps Davalillo
Silly-Putty Davalillo
Hula-Hoop Davalillo

and Leon "Daddy Wags" Czolosz

also send their thanks!
   48. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: May 01, 2007 at 03:59 PM (#2350977)
What about Lou Dobb's Ferry, Malkmuswell Hillbillies, Mel Cooley High, Jor-el Tiante, Boozy Kuhn, and Ruined Arledge?
   49. Eric Chalek (Dr. Chaleeko) Posted: May 01, 2007 at 04:09 PM (#2350986)
It's interesting to me that TLR was arrested for DUI this year, and now potentially Hancock may have been in a DUI situation. Probably just random, but interesting.
   50. Eric Chalek (Dr. Chaleeko) Posted: May 01, 2007 at 04:19 PM (#2350996)
Steve Malkmuswell Hillbillies
   51. Craig Calcaterra Posted: May 01, 2007 at 04:29 PM (#2351007)
There's a Rusty Kuntz reference to be made here somewhere (67 games in 1984), but I'm too damn scared to tease it out.

It's interesting to me that TLR was arrested for DUI this year, and now potentially Hancock may have been in a DUI situation. Probably just random, but interesting.


I have no doubt that this angle, along with the Cards/Anheuser-Busch connection will get played up if, in fact, Hancock was found to be drunk. The report will set off a new news cycle, and many of those searching for an angle will glom on to this one because it's easy and it lends itself to the moralizing/ballplayers as role models columns that write themselves.
   52. Repoz Posted: May 01, 2007 at 04:51 PM (#2351025)
What about Lou Dobb's Ferry, Malkmuswell Hillbillies, Mel Cooley High, Jor-el Tiante, Boozy Kuhn, and Ruined Arledge?

And...

Chu Chu Malave Cross
Harry Chappasquidic
The Apprenticeship of Gavvy Cravath
Warren Cromartie Glickman
Jay Kleven & Kleven is
Mike de la Hosiery

Mahatma McGaha has spoken!
   53. BDC Posted: May 01, 2007 at 05:11 PM (#2351038)
This thread is like Amos Strunk and Jo-Jo White's Elements of Handle.
   54. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 01, 2007 at 05:27 PM (#2351057)
The Apprenticeship of Gavvy Cravath

*snort*
   55. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: May 01, 2007 at 06:07 PM (#2351094)
This thread is like Amos Strunk and Jo-Jo White's Elements of Handle.


Or a Fred Funk and Daddy Wagnalls Encyclopedia of Primer.
   56. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: May 02, 2007 at 07:41 PM (#2352431)
Mahatma McGaha has spoken!


Let's not forget Frank Crossetemstraight or Verbanic in Needle Park.

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