Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, March 07, 2006

SI: Bonds exposed in book

Beginning in 1998 with injections in his buttocks of Winstrol, a powerful steroid, Barry Bonds took a wide array of performance-enhancing drugs over at least five seasons in a massive doping regimen that grew more sophisticated as the years went on, according to Game of Shadows, a book written by two San Francisco Chronicle reporters at the forefront of reporting on the BALCO steroid distribution scandal.

(An excerpt of Game of Shadows that details Bonds’ steroid use appears exclusively in the March 13 issue of Sports Illustrated, which is available on newsstands beginning on Wednesday. The book’s publication date is March 27.)

Thanks to Jimmy P.

VG Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:31 PM | 862 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: giants

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 9 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›
   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:34 PM (#1887054)
Is that why he became a woman?
   2. Hendry's Wad of Cash (UCCF) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:35 PM (#1887057)
*pops popcorn, turns off phone, gets comfortable*

OK, go.
   3. MM1f Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:35 PM (#1887059)
The flamewar starts...now
   4. MM1f Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:35 PM (#1887060)
And post #1 is killer BTW
   5. Nasty Nate Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:39 PM (#1887070)
HO LEE Schnikeees!
   6. Mister High Standards Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:42 PM (#1887074)
Help!
   7. Stiff Peter Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:43 PM (#1887077)
One guy on EEI wondered if this will make Bonds retire. Sounds like this is B-I-G, as big as Bonds head, even.
   8. Random Transaction Generator Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:43 PM (#1887079)
*puts marshmallow on stick, holds it out*

I'm ready.
   9. Indiansin12 Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:43 PM (#1887080)
My first question is how many flamewar jokes are made before the flamewar begins? My second question is how much of the stuff talked about in this article was already in the public domain? Are the authors mostly corroborating other pieces of information, or is there new information here? Also, a new joke I have been working on:

What's the difference between Bonds and Mypenis?

Bonds is a human being who plays baseball, has a family, and does stuff. Mypenis just likes to get some.

Hmm...I think the joke still needs work.
   10. Repoz Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:45 PM (#1887085)
I was just leaving to lick up some more asbestos at my other dump...now I gotta hang around.
   11. Maury Brown Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:47 PM (#1887092)
What's the difference between Bonds and Mypenis?
Hopefully lots of empty space.
   12. Dr Love Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:47 PM (#1887093)
So, how long is it going to be before Bonds suffers a season ending knee "injury"?
   13. billyshears Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:48 PM (#1887096)
I don't believe it for a minute. Haters.
   14. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:48 PM (#1887098)
Are the authors mostly corroborating other pieces of information, or is there new information here

According to Verducci (on ESPN Radio), the starting-in-the-'98-offseason thing is new; most people assumed he had started a year or 18 monhts later, based on what Kimberly Bell had said. The second thing is the amount and variety of stuff he allegedly used. I don't really know if that's newsworthy, but Verducci thought so.

The two Chron authors are on ESPN Radio now.
   15. Golfing Great Mitch Cumstein Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#1887105)
My second question is how much of the stuff talked about in this article was already in the public domain?

The stuff pre-2001, before the cream and the clear, and the amount and range of drugs is new, from what I remember. The mistress made allegations about stuff other than the cream and the clear, but she did not have great credibility because she was selling a book.
   16. Stan Papi Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#1887108)
Did you hear Papi took Santana deep in his first AB?
   17. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#1887110)
Bonds called for the re-starting of cycles when he felt his energy and power start to drop. If Anderson told Bonds he was not due for another cycle, the authors write, Bonds would tell him, "F--- off, I'll do it myself.''

Wow.

Right now, the Kirby Puckett tragedy is pushing this off the front page, but this is going to explode.
   18. Indiansin12 Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:51 PM (#1887111)
Thanks for the info, Help me
   19. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:55 PM (#1887120)
17: I think it already is.

18: One more thing---the authors just said on the radio that they had heard the actual death threat tapes from Bell, for what that's worth, and they were sure it was Bonds' voice, for what that's worth.
   20. Cris E Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:57 PM (#1887125)
Quote from story:

In secret grand jury testimony obtained by the authors, Bonds testified that he did not know what the substances were that Anderson gave him and he put in his body, saying at one point, "It's like, 'Whatever, dude.'"


As the man said, Wow.
   21. Dr Love Posted: March 07, 2006 at 07:57 PM (#1887127)
According to the book, Bonds, in comments to his mistress, Kimberly Bell, often dismissed McGwire with racially-charged remarks such as, "They're just letting him do it because he's a white boy."

I guess Barry forgot that Sosa isn't white.
   22. Dr Love Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:01 PM (#1887133)
Bell retained answering machine recordings of him after he threatened to kill her, remarking that if she disappeared no one would be able to prove he even knew her.

But he's a better teammate than Jeff Kent.
   23. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:01 PM (#1887134)
The flamewar starts...now

Doesn't a war require two sides? Other than the loonies who don't care if professional sports are turned into a domestic version of the SNL All-Drug Olympics, how is anyone on Bonds' side in this thing any more?
   24. CraigK Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:02 PM (#1887139)
So, who gets in in fewer years on the ballot, McGwire or Bonds?
   25. Punky Brusstar (orw) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:03 PM (#1887142)
I was just leaving to lick up some more asbestos at my other dump...now I gotta hang around.


Nah, I suspect that this thread won't be as big as people expect. It'll get a few hundred posts, but won't break 756. Bonds has been done to death already on this site.
   26. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:04 PM (#1887146)
Bonds was a great, great player before 1998; why he decided to ruin his reputation by taking roids is a mystery ... though the $18 mil a year or so he pulled in from age 39-42 is probably a good first clue.

He was a clear HOFer before 'roids; you wonder if this book will go so far as to take him out of the HOF.
   27. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:05 PM (#1887150)
Does Selig have the authority to suspend Bonds, a la Marion Jones, if he determines that this account is sufficiently credible to establish steroid use, even in the absence (so far) of a positive test?
   28. Sean McNally Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:08 PM (#1887156)
Doesn't a war require two sides? Other than the loonies who don't care if professional sports are turned into a domestic version of the SNL All-Drug Olympics, how is anyone on Bonds' side in this thing any more?


I guess representing the steroid agnostics... this story certainly is impressive, however, prior to 2004, it wasn't against the laws of baseball (the U.S. and other laws, yes), and I think most people accepting Bonds did something, but I don't know that it impacts my view of his legacy.

He's a flawed superstar of a flawed era, but still a hall of famer.
   29. Cabbage Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:09 PM (#1887157)
What are the chances that in another 10 or 15 years - when he's riddled with cancer and tumors - that Bonds does a complete turnaround/repentance deal a la George Wallace? I'll say about 15%
   30. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:09 PM (#1887158)
Right now, the Kirby Puckett tragedy is pushing this off the front page, but this is going to explode.

Bonds is the top story on cnn.com right now, ahead of Dick Cheney threatening Iran.
   31. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:09 PM (#1887159)
the loonies who don't care if professional sports are turned into a domestic version of the SNL All-Drug Olympics, how is anyone on Bonds' side in this thing any more?

Ahh, but don't forget the people that no matter what comes out, its just still hearsay, we have established those people still exist here

also I still don't see anything about him kicking dogs therefore he should be given a pass, though I wouldn't be surprised if Anderson was his dog

and for those of us who never doubted his drug use from the first hints, nah, nah, nah, nah...nah
   32. OnWI Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:10 PM (#1887161)
So if I read correctly a lot of you care if the dude was juicin'.

Interesting.

Later,

H3
   33. DCA Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:13 PM (#1887165)
Doesn't a war require two sides? Other than the loonies who don't care if professional sports are turned into a domestic version of the SNL All-Drug Olympics, how is anyone on Bonds' side in this thing any more?

Other than the loonies who think anyone who doesn't agree with them exactly on the significance of the issue doesn't care if professional sports are turned into a domestic version of the SNL All-Drug Olympics, how is anyone taking sides in this thing any more?

There's a vast middle ground between "yay steroids!" and "I hate all steroid users, wish ill upon them, and delight in their public ridicule" that you don't seem to recognize.
   34. catseyepub Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:13 PM (#1887166)
It certainly is fascinating to see how this will all play out in Bonds' quest to pass "whiteboy" Ruth's mark. As well as Aaron's mark too.

My, my, how will MLB handle this mess.

Me thinks that Bonds goes the way of Mark, attempts to fade away into obscurity. I'll be rooting for Bonds to just slither away, the piece of crap that he is.
   35. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:14 PM (#1887170)
I'd guess the CBA as amended wouldn't allow it. Does any residue of the old power to act in the "best interests of baseball" still reside in the Commissioner's office regarding player discipline?
   36. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:15 PM (#1887175)
why he decided to ruin his reputation by taking roids is a mystery

It makes perfect sense for a guy of Bonds' ego, here he is the best player in the game and everyone is talking about how great McGwire and Sosa are

I know numerous people had offered this years ago but were written off as "haters"
   37. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:16 PM (#1887177)
Does Bonds remind anyone else of Richard Nixon?

Both hate the media.

Both have public relations issues.

Both feel themselves to be surrounded by enemies.

Both will do whatever it takes to get ahead, no matter what.

Bell retained answering machine recordings of him after he threatened to kill her, remarking that if she disappeared no one would be able to prove he even knew her.

Both say ill-considered things on tape.
   38. Sean McNally Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:16 PM (#1887180)
I'd guess the CBA as amended wouldn't allow it. Does any residue of the old power to act in the "best interests of baseball" still reside in the Commissioner's office regarding player discipline?


Somehow I doubt the MLBPA would allow that, the slippery slope and all...
   39. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:16 PM (#1887181)
The mistress made allegations about stuff other than the cream and the clear, but she did not have great credibility because she was selling a book.
Whereas the authors of this book are...?
   40. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:18 PM (#1887183)
Does Bonds remind anyone else of Richard Nixon?

Both have had sex with Pat Nixon.
   41. Kiko Sakata Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:19 PM (#1887185)
I have a legal question that's probably been answered and discussed to death before, but here goes:

Assuming this book explicitly alleges ass-injections, etc., if Barry Bonds does not sue the authors of this book, is it fair for me to conclude from that, that this book is pretty much true?
   42. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:21 PM (#1887188)
Bonds is the top story on cnn.com right now, ahead of Dick Cheney threatening Iran.

Nothing on ESPN.com yet.
   43. Dr Love Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:21 PM (#1887189)
Whereas the authors of this book are...?

Are actual writers who have reputations and jobs based on what they write. This doesn't automatically give them massive amounts of credibility, but they've got a lot more at stake than Barry Bonds' mistress, who has nothing at stake.
   44. Stiff Peter Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:23 PM (#1887191)
Nothing on ESPN.com yet.

They haven't decided how this will affect the Bonds reality show.
   45. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:23 PM (#1887192)
It makes perfect sense for a guy of Bonds' ego, here he is the best player in the game and everyone is talking about how great McGwire and Sosa are

I know numerous people had offered this years ago but were written off as "haters"

To salve his ego, couldn't he just have just told everybody he was the best player who didn't use steroids?
   46. VG Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:23 PM (#1887193)
Whereas the authors of this book are...?

The authors of the book seem to have sources to back up their claims -- sorry, I didn't RTWFA, just the first page -- whereas Bell was trading almost solely on her word, and no one knew who she was to begin with, so that's a tougher sell. She also had an obvious vendetta-type motive that seems lacking for the authors.
   47. DCA Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:24 PM (#1887194)
I wonder ... when did steroids become such a big issue? I mean, everybody knew Canseco was on them back in the 80's and it was no big deal. At the same Ben Johnson was big news and it's not like we weren't aware of steroid use in athletics. But I don't remember hearing anything about it in MLB until the andro scandal with McGwire. Was I missing something?

Which is why I think it's basically just a HR record issue ... by which I mean I don't think it popped up as a REAL PROBLEM in the public consciousness until McGwire was a real threat to pass Maris, and Bonds was a real threat to pass Aaron. Not that there's no other reason to want steroids out of the game, but I think the trigger is the "sanctity of the record book" and to paint the public's "overwhelming outrage" as anything but seems revisionist to me. And revisionist history bothers me more than steroid use does. It's much, much, more harmful.
   48. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:24 PM (#1887197)
What are the chances that in another 10 or 15 years - when he's riddled with cancer and tumors - that Bonds does a complete turnaround/repentance deal a la George Wallace? I'll say about 15%

i wasn't living here in alabama at the time, but my understanding is that wallace's post-assassination-attempt (& -contrition) electoral success stemmed largely from the black vote. would the equivalent be the union stumping for bonds' election to the hof?
   49. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:25 PM (#1887199)
Whereas the authors of this book are ... ?

Not really all that interesting to listen to, if nothing else.

(Sample size proviso may apply.)
   50. MattR Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:25 PM (#1887200)
Whereas the authors of this book are...?


LIARS! ONLY OUT TO GET BARRY! Barry is innocent, and those above calling him "flawed" are showing their racist tendencies.

Keep trying to tear him down. He will survive these false allegations.
   51. Roadblock Jones Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:25 PM (#1887201)
why he decided to ruin his reputation by taking roids is a mystery ...


I'd assume it's because he knew, or suspected, others were also using and he wanted the same advantage, which of course is most troubling.

Interesting that the story mentions that steroids appeared to improve his eyesight which is something I didn't know was an effect.
   52. Repoz Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:26 PM (#1887202)
Does Bonds remind anyone else of Richard Nixon?

Does Dwight Chapin still write for the SF Chronicle?
   53. Tom (and his broom) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:26 PM (#1887203)
I would truly like to see some story on Bonds steroid use that does not depend on Novitsky's word. Even the feds don't believe any of the so-called statements that he collected from Anderson, Conte et al.
   54. RichRifkin Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:27 PM (#1887205)
In addition to detailing the drug usage, the excerpt portrays Bonds as a menacing boor, a tax cheat... The authors report that Bonds gave Bell, with whom he continued his affair after his second marriage in January 1998, $80,000 in cash in 2001 from memorabilia income not reported to the IRS.

Isn't that what sent Pete Rose to prison, not reporting his income from memorabilia shows?

Also, the authors accuse Bonds of threatening to murder Kimberly Bell. If that is true, why have the S.F. police not arrested him?
   55. David Wrightwing obstructionist Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:28 PM (#1887206)
To salve his ego, couldn't he just have just told everybody he was the best player who didn't use steroids?

I actually thought that is what he has been doing :)
   56. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:29 PM (#1887207)
Interesting that the story mentions that steroids appeared to improve his eyesight which is something I didn't know was an effect.

Improved eyesight is a known effect of taking Human Growth Hormone.
   57. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:30 PM (#1887208)
Nothing on ESPN.com yet.

They haven't decided how this will affect the Bonds reality show.


ESPN is not really a news organization and is hopelessly conflicted on the Bonds issue.

Plus to ESPN, nothing is really "confirmed" or "news" until they can say something like "ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports ...."
   58. RichRifkin Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:31 PM (#1887210)
At 3:05 EST, 12:05 PST, ESPN Radio is replaying its interview with the authors of the book.

Keith Olbermann, who is on now with Trey Wingo (who really sucks), said that if Bonds does not sue for libel, he is pretty much admitting these accusations are true. That is not literally or legally true. But I think it is practically true.
   59. Punky Brusstar (orw) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:32 PM (#1887211)
Well, Olbermann and Trey Wingo are talking about Bonds on ESPN radio right now.
   60. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:32 PM (#1887212)
Does Bonds remind anyone else of Richard Nixon?

does that make felipe alou henry kissinger?
   61. My guest will be Jermaine Allensworth Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:32 PM (#1887213)
Plus to ESPN, nothing is really "confirmed" or "news" until they can say something like "ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports ...."

Nah, in cases like this, they say "ESPN.com's Jayson Stark has learned..."
   62. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:33 PM (#1887215)
I'd assume it's because he knew, or suspected, others were also using and he wanted the same advantage, which of course is most troubling.

Interesting that the story mentions that steroids appeared to improve his eyesight which is something I didn't know was an effect.


Which is why people shouldn't have jumped the gun and said that steroids don't help you hit a baseball.
   63. Boogie Nights Powell Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:34 PM (#1887219)
#36 seems reasonable.

Bonds has never seemed to care about his rep as far as what people think of him personally. His ego appears to be fed by being known as the best ballplayer there is.

To know you are the best, and then to sit and watch others you know are cheating get all the adulation, would have to eat away at someone like Bonds.

I can't excuse what BB did, but I sure can understand it.
   64. Cabbage Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:36 PM (#1887224)
Bonds is the top story on cnn.com right now, ahead of Dick Cheney threatening Iran.

and BOTH stories are ahead of Conan and Andy reuniting! shows what twisted priorities we have.

My, my, how will MLB handle this mess.

Poorly.
   65. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:36 PM (#1887226)
Keith Olbermann, who is on now with Trey Wingo (who really sucks), said that if Bonds does not sue for libel, he is pretty much admitting these accusations are true. That is not literally or legally true. But I think it is practically true.


But it's pretty close to literally true ... SI and the book publisher both had teams of lawyers looking over everything published and never would have let it go if they thought it might be libelous.

Plus Bonds has every incentive to file a libel suit since he might think it would help his reputation.
   66. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:37 PM (#1887228)
I'd guess the CBA as amended wouldn't allow it. Does any residue of the old power to act in the "best interests of baseball" still reside in the Commissioner's office regarding player discipline?
Kuhn and Miller fought over this heavily back in the 1970s. Kuhn wanted plenary power to act in his view of the best interests of baseball; nobody else was very impressed with that concept. The players weren't dumb enough to think Kuhn was a neutral arbiter. (And the owners ultimately fired him for thinking he had such power (they were okay when he was only using it to screw Charlie Finley.))

The compromise they settled upon was that the commissioner would retain the BIOB power for gambling-related matters, but not for anything else. All other discipline was subject to collective bargaining and grievance arbitration.
   67. _ Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:38 PM (#1887234)
the authors accuse Bonds of threatening to murder Kimberly Bell. If that is true, why have the S.F. police not arrested him?

In the heat of a quarrel with a girlfriend, people can say things they don't mean. It's pretty hard to prosecute that sort of thing, especially now that she's probably in no imminent danger. If true, though, it does serve to paint him as a menacing boor, which is all they're trying to do.
   68. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:42 PM (#1887237)
Assuming this book explicitly alleges ass-injections, etc., if Barry Bonds does not sue the authors of this book, is it fair for me to conclude from that, that this book is pretty much true?

After Whittaker Chambers accused Alger Hiss of spying for the Russians in front of a congressional committee, Hiss dared him to repeat the charge without the cloak of congressional immunity.

Chambers repeated the charge on Meet the Press, Hiss sued, and that, my friends, was the beginning of the end for Alger Hiss.

Bonds should just sue SI if he wants to clear his name.
   69. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:43 PM (#1887241)
Still nothing on Espn.com ...
   70. RichRifkin Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:45 PM (#1887243)
In the heat of a quarrel with a girlfriend, people can say things they don't mean.

Gaedel,

According to the SI article, these threats were made in telephone conversations that Kimberly Bell recorded. Seems to me, that is much clearer evidence that "heat of a quarrel."
   71. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:47 PM (#1887249)
69: http://espn.go.com/

Sure there is.
   72. Old Matt Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:48 PM (#1887251)
Story is up on ESPN, here.
   73. Willie Mayspedester Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:49 PM (#1887256)
So does this reduce his fantasy value? What about the 50$ drunk bet I made last weekend against my friend the Giants fan that Frank Thomas would have more games played this year than Bonds?
   74. BeQC Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:50 PM (#1887258)
Plus to ESPN, nothing is really "confirmed" or "news" until they can say something like "ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reports ...."

Nah, in cases like this, they say "ESPN.com's Jayson Stark has learned..."

Actually, it's more like, "ESPN.com's Jayson Stark has read on SI.com..."
   75. Dewey, Soupuss Not Doomed to Succeed Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:51 PM (#1887262)
Still nothing on Espn.com ...

It's up on their front page now. They bumped Puckett for it.
   76. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:51 PM (#1887264)
Bonds was a great, great player before 1998; why he decided to ruin his reputation by taking roids is a mystery

It's really not a big mystery at all, in fact I was able to figure it out a while ago, and I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one.

He saw what McGwire and Sosa were able to accomplish on steroids, not to mention all the adulation and attention they were getting from their amazing season, became jealous (if not enraged), and figured that, gosh darnit, he would show everyone who the real best player in baseball was. End of story.
   77. Backlasher Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:55 PM (#1887271)
Bonds should just sue SI if he wants to clear his name.


I think he might want to just fade off to Bolivia.

Where is Chrissy? I think he would find this story somewhat interesting.

The decaying remnants of the pro-steroid crowd are just not well represented in this thread.
   78. Robinson Cano Plate Like Home Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:55 PM (#1887272)
The real question is how anybody ever trusted somebody named Alger Hiss to begin with. I mean, what a giveaway name. Every bad movie has somebody like that--you know, the king's wicked advisor, who just happens to be named Slimy Backstabber, and who slinks around in the shadows for no good reason....
   79. _ Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:55 PM (#1887273)
I know it says he threatened to kill her in the hotel room; I haven't seen anything specific about what was on the tapes. Either way, I would guess Kimberly would have to bring the tapes to the SFPD if she wanted to prosecute. I don't think it's standard procedure to act on third-hand published accounts of death threats against girlfriends who aren't the POTUS. Not that I'm making light of it, if he did it. Of course anyone who does this has some sociopatchic issues to address.
   80. Stiff Peter Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:56 PM (#1887277)
He saw what McGwire and Sosa were able to accomplish on steroids, not to mention all the adulation and attention they were getting from their amazing season, became jealous (if not enraged), and figured that, gosh darnit, he would show everyone who the real best player in baseball was.

According to the book, Bonds was debating between murdering McGwire and Sosa and taking steroids even more aggressively.

If those were the only two options he considered, I think we should all be happy with how this turned out.
   81. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: March 07, 2006 at 08:59 PM (#1887283)
To salve his ego, couldn't he just have just told everybody he was the best player who didn't use steroids?

That's not exactly how ego works, I don't think.
   82. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:00 PM (#1887288)
   83. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:00 PM (#1887289)
Assuming this book explicitly alleges ass-injections, etc., if Barry Bonds does not sue the authors of this book, is it fair for me to conclude from that, that this book is pretty much true?
I don't think so, no. I can think of numerous reasons he wouldn't sue:

1. Expensive is numero uno, except it doesn't really apply to Barry Bonds.
2. Time consuming and distracting. Ask Mr. Clinton about that.

And the big ones:

3. Keeps the story in the headlines far longer.
4. To prevail, Bonds (as a public figure) has to prove the story false. THEN he has to prove that the authors were acting with malice (which, in a defamation context, means essentially that they acted with reckless disregard for the truth.) In other words, merely proving it false isn't enough; he has to prove that they didn't have a good faith belief that it was true when they printed it. That's almost impossible.

Now, one can argue that for Bonds' purposes, it may be enough to prove it false; he wouldn't recover money but he'd at least have an adjudication that it was false. But how does he prove it false? How does he prove that, years ago, he didn't use steroids? It's not easy.

5. Finally, if any parts of it are true, even if they're not the steroid-related parts, that may well be established during the course of the suit. His alleged affair. Tax evasion. Whatever.

We have people approach us about defamation suits all the time. We always turn them away. It's just so rarely worth it. And that's for private figures; for public figures, it's even less so, because the burden of proof is so much higher. Only for trade libel cases would I ever recommend suing, and often not even then.
   84. CraigK Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:03 PM (#1887298)
According to the book, Bonds was debating between murdering McGwire and Sosa and taking steroids even more aggressively.

I can't even tell whether or not that's a joke anymore.
   85. Backlasher Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:03 PM (#1887299)
Bonds should just sue SI if he wants to clear his name.


Then it sounds like you would enjoy the book because the advance sheet seems to indicate that it will not only include the detailed investigation by the IRS agents, it will discuss the documentary evidence that coorberates their conclusions, the statements of Kimberly Bell and "...court documents, affidavits filed by BALCO investigators, confidential memoranda of federal agents (including statements made to them by athletes and trainers), grand jury testimony, audiotapes and interviews with more than 200 sources. "
   86. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:05 PM (#1887304)
Dear God I'm surprised Barry isn't mooing by now.

Best Regards

John
   87. CraigK Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:06 PM (#1887305)
Oh; Tax evasion.

I believe Mr. Bonds is royally ######; take all the illegal steroids you want, but for God's sake, don't you DARE cheat your taxes!
   88. Kiko Sakata Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:07 PM (#1887307)
Thanks, David N.
   89. DCW3 Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:10 PM (#1887310)
I believe Mr. Bonds is royally ######; take all the illegal steroids you want, but for God's sake, don't you DARE cheat your taxes!

Al Capone -- the Italian Barry Bonds?

Both allegedly cheated on their taxes, both had quick tempers, and both were evidently pretty handy with a baseball bat.
   90. Kirby Kyle Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:10 PM (#1887311)
Improved eyesight is a known effect of taking Human Growth Hormone.

No, it isn't. I've posted at length on this issue before. There is no clinical or preclinical evidence whatsoever to support the contention that exogenous hGH will improve eyesight in normal individuals.
   91. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:11 PM (#1887313)
I'm glad that we're going to finally see some documents on all of this. The proof is in the pudding.

Working six different performance-enhancing substances simultaneously is pretty hardcore, if it's true.
   92. Maury Brown Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:12 PM (#1887316)
Bonds is the top story on cnn.com right now, ahead of Dick Cheney threatening Iran.
Well, let's be honest, Cheney taking on Iran with a shotgun is just silly.
   93. Fred Garvin is dead to Mug Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:13 PM (#1887318)
4. To prevail, Bonds (as a public figure) has to prove the story false.

I should know this for sure, but does he have to prove it false, or is truth an affirmative defense for the authors to prove?

I know and agree that the malice issue is a significant deterrent, of course.
   94. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:13 PM (#1887320)
Of course anyone who does this has some sociopatchic issues to address.

While I wouldn't go so far as to say that he definitely is one, I've thought for a while now that Bonds does exhibit a lot of the classic behavioral characteristics of a functional sociopath.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's managed to convince himself that he's never really done anything wrong and that he's just a victim of society. This book is going to be interesting to say the least.
   95. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:14 PM (#1887324)
"According to the book, Bonds was debating between murdering McGwire and Sosa and taking steroids even more aggressively."

This is a joke, right?
   96. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:14 PM (#1887325)
Truth is an affirmative defense.
   97. Scoriano Flitcraft Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:15 PM (#1887326)
Maybe I missed it, but under "The Documentation" at the SI site, the documentary evidence, to the extent you can call it that, only dates to the time leading up to the 2003 season.

There are no documents referenced about earlier usage other than assertions that prosecutors have lots of pages of stuff (they always do but it is often irrelvant or ambiguous and is also not subject to cross-examination in a GJ proceeding), and the prosecutors (objective public servants, you know) are convinced of his earlier usage and no one gains muscle like that without juicing, etc.
   98. Sean McNally Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:16 PM (#1887327)
The decaying remnants of the pro-steroid crowd are just not well represented in this thread.


Was there ever really a "pro-steroid crowd?"
   99. Los Angeles Waterloo of Black Hawk Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:18 PM (#1887330)
The "documentary" evidence is described here.

A quick summary:

1. BALCO's James Valente states that Greg Anderson brought Barry to BALCO prior to the 2003 season with the intent of acquiring undetectable steroids. Valente states that he provided Anderson with steroids to give to Bonds (note that Valente does not say he supplied Bonds directly).

2. BALCO's Victor Conte "gave an identical account of Anderson's bringing Bonds to BALCO and Bonds's subsequent use of the Cream and the Clear."

3. Calendars allegedly plotting Bonds' steroid use were found in Greg Anderson's home, though Anderson denied ever providing Bonds with steroids.

4. According to "Olympic shot putter C. J. Hunter", Victor Conte informed him in 2003 that BALCO had been providing Bonds with "the Clear." Hunter's attorney later denied that Conte had named Bonds.
   100. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: March 07, 2006 at 09:18 PM (#1887331)
Where is Chrissy? I think he would find this story somewhat interesting.

The decaying remnants of the pro-steroid crowd are just not well represented in this thread.


If you mean Dial, he's in Key West. I had a few cocktails with him and his wife on Sunday.
Page 1 of 9 pages  1 2 3 4 5 6 >  Last ›

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Adam S
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - September 2014
(6 - 2:36am, Sep 02)
Last: RollingWave

NewsblogTrevor Hoffman's Hall of Fame induction seems inevitable
(7 - 2:30am, Sep 02)
Last: Infinite Joost (Voxter)

NewsblogPhoto of the day: Bill Murray, indy league ticket-taker
(103 - 2:27am, Sep 02)
Last: Robert in Manhattan Beach

NewsblogNitkowski: Wanted: Major League manager...sort of.
(8 - 2:07am, Sep 02)
Last: Robert in Manhattan Beach

NewsblogOMNICHATTER 9-1-2014
(40 - 2:01am, Sep 02)
Last: MNB

NewsblogAstros Fire Bo Porter
(57 - 1:54am, Sep 02)
Last: base ball chick

NewsblogRobothal: Changed [Manny] Ramirez enjoyed helping Cubs prospects grow
(13 - 1:27am, Sep 02)
Last: The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott)

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1957 Ballot
(10 - 1:12am, Sep 02)
Last: Moeball

NewsblogHBT: Jorge Soler with an extra-base hit in each of his first five games
(2 - 1:02am, Sep 02)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogOT: Politics, September, 2014: ESPN honors Daily Worker sports editor Lester Rodney
(28 - 1:00am, Sep 02)
Last: Ray (RDP)

NewsblogRon Roenicke rips into home-plate umpire
(17 - 12:18am, Sep 02)
Last: Bunny Vincennes

NewsblogBlue Jays Acquire Mayberry Jr.
(7 - 12:10am, Sep 02)
Last: Infinite Joost (Voxter)

NewsblogAthletics Acquire Adam Dunn
(43 - 11:46pm, Sep 01)
Last: Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66)

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread August, 2014
(986 - 11:25pm, Sep 01)
Last: The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott)

NewsblogOT:  2014 College Football pre-season thread
(101 - 11:17pm, Sep 01)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

Page rendered in 0.7871 seconds
54 querie(s) executed