Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Monday, September 25, 2017

Silverman: Yankees-Red Sox Is Exactly What MLB Postseason Needs

Everybody’s gonna party like it’s 2003 (or 2004)?! Aaron F. Boone! Bloody Sock! Grady F. Little! Varitek vs. Jeter! The Slap! Big Papi! What else are we forgetting?

Baseball’s postseason has regularly been swallowed up by the NFL, and despite lesser TV ratings and alarm bells going off over long-term CTE issues, the NFL continues to dominate — last year’s Cubs-Indians World Series was an exception to the rule.

But there’s a chance that baseball could again have a postseason to remember this fall, one that could result in a strong arm-wrestling match with the NFL.

Epic meal.

A Yankees-Red Sox showdown would command the attention of the sports world, with all kinds of stories about the best rivalry in sports coming to the forefront once again.

No matter who would win that series – and the Yankees have been the better team head-to-head this season (11-8) —the World Series could be epic if the Chicago Cubs can get back and attempt to defend their title.

Greg Franklin Posted: September 25, 2017 at 09:01 PM | 73 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: media, postseason, red sox, television, yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 08:34 AM (#5538921)
I'd love to see it, but right now I'm just hoping to see the Yanks get to Cleveland or Houston. One good game by Ervin Santana and the 162 previous games could go up in smoke.
   2. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: September 26, 2017 at 08:59 AM (#5538933)
"I've heard of these teams and won't have to travel far!"

I'm a diehard Sox fan and think they and the Yankees are terrific and fun teams to watch. But if you can't enjoy Houston or Cleveland, both great teams (and both better than Boston and New York) with some exciting players then you aren't baseballing right. Not only are they dynamic and talented but they are fun to watch.
   3. Astroenteritis Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:00 AM (#5538935)
I knew it wouldn't be long before this kind of mindless drivel started showing up. I guess with only a week until the playoffs start we have to prepare for the idiotic "what baseball needs" stories.

I think Nationals-Indians would be a perfectly wonderful World Series, by the way.
   4. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:06 AM (#5538940)
There really shouldn't be much in the way of bad playoff matchups. If you assume the Twins lose the WC game to New York or Boston then I think all four AL teams are very good and interesting to boot. The NL is pretty similar. Washington, Chicago and LA are great. I don't know much about Arizona or Colorado but at the very least Goldschmidt and Arrenado are fantastic and whichever of them (or Milwaukee) wins the Wild Card there is going to be some serious David vs. Goliath thing going on.
   5. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:10 AM (#5538941)
There really shouldn't be much in the way of bad playoff matchups.

Yes, if this is true.

If you assume the Twins lose the WC game to New York

The Yankees are every bit as good as Boston and Houston, so you've got three pretty even teams, and Cleveland with a slight edge.
   6. villageidiom Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:19 AM (#5538947)
No, it isn't.

The arguments sound a lot like the argument BITD that the Yankees/Mets World Series in 2000 would reinvigorate the sport and set all-time records for viewership and blah blah blah new golden age of baseball blah blah blah. Instead it set all time lows for viewership and was largely ignored outside of NYC.

It would be great for me, and Red Sox fans, if Yankees/Red Sox were the ALCS matchup because it would mean Boston advanced past the ALDS. It would be great for Yankees fans because it would mean the Yankees advanced past the ALDS. That's about it. It's not great for baseball, and I'm not about to pretend it is. Villain vs. villain is only compelling in cases of mutual destruction, which won't happen.

The best would be for either the Astros or Indians (but not both) to win in the ALDS, then win in the ALCS, thereby vanquishing both villains. And of course, pretty much any outcome in the NL that doesn't involve the Cubs will be fine.

My own preference is Red Sox / Cubs, but what I prefer and what would be objectively better are two different things.
   7. Fernigal McGunnigle Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:25 AM (#5538950)
The best thing for baseball would be a bunch of tight and exciting series featuring a sprinkling of heroic exploits.
   8. jmurph Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:31 AM (#5538954)
I'm a Red Sox fan and have no interest in a Boston/NY series (other than the factor VI mentions, of course, which is that it would mean Boston was in the ALCS). I hate all the pseudodrama around it and the exaggerated narratives. 03 and 04 happened, we should all be set for another couple of decades before having to go through all of that again.
   9. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:37 AM (#5538962)
I'm a diehard Sox fan and think they and the Yankees are terrific and fun teams to watch. But if you can't enjoy Houston or Cleveland, both great teams (and both better than Boston and New York) with some exciting players then you aren't baseballing right. Not only are they dynamic and talented but they are fun to watch.

No argument there, though I really don't want to see either of the second wild card teams survive the one game shootout. Cleveland vs Minnesota isn't my idea of a thrilling matchup.

And I do think there's one factor that would make the Yankees and Red Sox a bigger draw than usual this year: Aaron Judge vs. the team that's had the most success in containing him.
   10. PreservedFish Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:49 AM (#5538976)
Even the Twins have their own fair share of exciting players. But I'm rooting for the Indians all the way here.
   11. Textbook Editor Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:19 AM (#5539015)
I'm a Red Sox fan and have no interest in a Boston/NY series (other than the factor VI mentions, of course, which is that it would mean Boston was in the ALCS). I hate all the pseudodrama around it and the exaggerated narratives. 03 and 04 happened, we should all be set for another couple of decades before having to go through all of that again.


+1

I kind of think a Cubs-Indians rematch would be fun. Haven't had a repeat World Series in a while, right? (Too lazy to look.)

Failing a Red Sox WS win, I always root for the team with the longest title drought, because it's fun to end decades of suffering, and it's an experience I always wish more fans could take part in.
   12. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:24 AM (#5539022)
Yankees-Dodgers in 77/78? I can't think of another one.
   13. BDC Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:30 AM (#5539032)
It wasn't an immediate rematch, but the 1996/99 Braves-Yankees Series featured a lot of the same key players.

I agree with Jose and others: this postseason draws a lot of interest from the Cubs and Indians reappearing, plus very strong champions in Washington, LA, and Houston. It's not like the Red Sox and Yankees are afterthoughts – they have exciting young players – but they are the third- and fourth-place teams in the AL overall, and you can hardly gear up in anticipation of them meeting in the ALCS right now.
   14. Textbook Editor Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:37 AM (#5539040)
Yankees-Dodgers in 77/78? I can't think of another one.


I think that's right... In my head I was thinking 76/77, but knew the Reds won in 76 so that couldn't be right... I then didn't think/forgot the Yankees made it to 3 straight...
   15. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:48 AM (#5539061)
For those who favor variety, just be glad you weren't around between 1947 and 1956. Here's a list of the cities represented in those 10 World Series:

New York - 16**
Cleveland - 2
Boston - 1
Philadelphia - 1

You can see why many New Yorkers keep referring to this as "Baseball's Golden Age". The only World Series without at least one New York team was in 1948, when the Indians beat the Boston Braves.

** By borough, it was the Bronx 8, Brooklyn 6, and Manhattan 2
   16. Sweatpants Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:52 AM (#5539069)
03 and 04 happened, we should all be set for another couple of decades before having to go through all of that again.
I've always kind of thought of 2004 as the end of what's now known as the Steroid Era. That was generally a great time to be a baseball fan (unless you rooted for someone like the Pirates or Brewers), with big, popular teams and identities that were easy to build narratives around. There wasn't really a way to top the Red Sox winning, unless the Cubs could have done it (but that version of the Cubs instead crashed). Sorry, White Sox fans, but the next few years were a pretty wretched time to be a fan (capped off by a Bonds HR chase that was treated as somberly as someone breaking the all-time HR record could be), with all sorts of venom about steroids, and stats vs. scouts. Those arguments had existed earlier, but they seemed to dominate the mid-'00s. There's still plenty of talk about steroids, but that period is over now, and I don't know when it ended or what the current one is.
   17. Pat Rapper's Delight (as quoted on MLB Network) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 10:55 AM (#5539075)
I hope the Yankees lose the play-in game 99-0.
   18. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:12 AM (#5539100)
I'll be happy if they play in the wild card game. Let's get this thing wrapped up.
   19. Bote Man Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:20 AM (#5539110)
Baseball is dying. They should cancel all the other games and make the World's Series Yankees-Red Sox to save it.
   20. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:29 AM (#5539120)
I think a final four of Cleveland/Houston/Colorado/Washington is the best I can hope for.
That would mean it would be the end of World Series droughts that lasted 69 years/never won/never won/never won.
Any AL/NL match-up from these four would give the long suffering fans of one city a great moment.

   21. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5539145)
Trying to be neutral, I think any matchup not involving the Twins would be interesting (sorry). IMO, Yanks/Red Sox would be at the bottom of that list though. Assuming both WC2s lose, the current likely DS matchups are all pretty awesome: LA/ARI, WSH/CHC, CLE/NYY, HOU/BOS. Plenty of stars and should-be stars all around.
   22. Bote Man Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:40 AM (#5539146)
Washington won the World Series in 1924, and played in 1925 and 1933.
   23. Khrushin it bro Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:43 AM (#5539150)
This is what baseball needs, minus the opposite that happened last year that doesn't fit my narrative.
   24. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 11:54 AM (#5539175)
I think a final four of Cleveland/Houston/Colorado/Washington is the best I can hope for.
That would mean it would be the end of World Series droughts that lasted 69 years/never won/never won/never won.
Any AL/NL match-up from these four would give the long suffering fans of one city a great moment.


My personal preference order is:

1. Yankees
2. Indians
3. not Dodgers/Red Sox/ Cubs.
   25. Khrushin it bro Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:03 PM (#5539187)
Indians Nationals
   26. Nasty Nate Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:04 PM (#5539189)
I'm hoping for some cool SP matchups along the way. The elites will all be there: Kershaw, Kluber, Sale, and Scherzer; and then a bunch from the next tier down: Verlander, Greinke, Strasburg, etc.
   27. BDC Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:06 PM (#5539192)
My personal preference order

Always fun to think of because one has to have some slight rooting interest. I dislike none of the contenders this year but am pretty agnostic on most. I feel I would probably lean Astros > Cubs > Yankees > Indians > field, but I doubt I'll really know till a given series starts. I usually favor the AL West team even if it's not the Rangers. I like to follow teams I get to see fairly often.
   28. eddieot Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:09 PM (#5539197)
This piece is the baseball equivalent of mansplaining.
   29. Bote Man Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:20 PM (#5539204)
Plus, with the Indians you get to hear Harry Doyle call a World Series. Full of win!!
   30. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:24 PM (#5539210)
I'll be happy if they play in the wild card game. Let's get this thing wrapped up.

Man, can you imagine the Yankees & Red Sox in a one-game playoff with the season on the line? The NLDS would be over by the time they hit the seventh-inning stretch.
   31. No longer interested in this website Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:24 PM (#5539211)
I'd love to see the Dodgers and Astros square off, "renewing" their former National League rivalry. Then we could witness a head-to-head matchup of (arguably) the two greatest starters of the current era: Kershaw and Verlander.

Besides that, anyone but the Indians.
   32. Mark Armour Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:30 PM (#5539220)
Red Sox fan here. I would abhor another Red Sox-Yankees series, with every fiber of my being. Please Lord, make it not happen.
   33. villageidiom Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:42 PM (#5539246)
And I do think there's one factor that would make the Yankees and Red Sox a bigger draw than usual this year: Aaron Judge vs. the team that's had the most success in containing him.
Why do you think that would be a draw to anyone who otherwise isn't already drawn to Yankees/Red Sox?
   34. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:49 PM (#5539255)
They are the worst team likely to make the playoffs in the AL, but baseball is a funny game and a Twins run in the playoffs would be doubly sweet, because they are my team and because of the amount of ink and angst spilled over it.

Baseball? It will be fine no matter what, so no one should spend a half a second considering that in their dream scenario.
   35. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:50 PM (#5539256)
DS preferences:
Yankees / Astros, Red Sox / Indians
Yankees / Indians, Red Sox / Astros
Nats / Cubs, Dodgers / Diamondbacks

LCS preferences:
Yankees / Red Sox
Yankees / Indians
Yankees / Astros
Indians / Red Sox
Red Sox / Astros
Indians / Astros
Nats / Dodgers
Cubs / Dodgers

WS preferences:
Yankees / Nats, Cubs, Dodgers
Indians / Nats, Cubs, Dodgers
Astros / Nats, Cubs, Dodgers
Red Sox / Nats, Cubs, Dodgers

WS winner:
Yanks, Indians, Nats, Astros, otherwise generic AL over NL

But as long as the Twins, Rockies and Diamondbacks don't make it to the LCS I'll be satisfied with any other matchups, and even there I have to admit seeing the Diamondbacks knock off the Dodgers would be kind of schadenfreudish.
   36. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 12:59 PM (#5539261)
And I do think there's one factor that would make the Yankees and Red Sox a bigger draw than usual this year: Aaron Judge vs. the team that's had the most success in containing him.

Why do you think that would be a draw to anyone who otherwise isn't already drawn to Yankees/Red Sox?


I dunno, why do you think the Home Run Derby ratings were up 55% from 2016? Judge is the embodiment of the type of player who brings in the casual fan.
   37. PreservedFish Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:02 PM (#5539263)
Judge is a real draw, for sure.

The "team that's had the most success in containing him" is not a real narrative that anyone is aware of or cares about.
   38. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:09 PM (#5539269)
I dunno, why do you think the Home Run Derby ratings were up 55% from 2016? Judge is the embodiment of the type of player who brings in the casual fan.

People will tune in to watch Judge. I don't think anyone cares if he's facing Boston, Cleveland, or Houston.
   39. Random Transaction Generator Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:14 PM (#5539274)
Washington won the World Series in 1924, and played in 1925 and 1933.

You're right. I should have said "franchise".
   40. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:20 PM (#5539278)
But as long as the Twins, Rockies and Diamondbacks don't make it to the LCS I'll be satisfied with any other matchups


Words hurt man.

Seriously though I don't get this. Over a short series the difference in quality of the various playoff teams is real, but not that huge. Plus is one of the "lesser" teams makes it through they obviously they were playing well. I think watching teams play well is infinitely preferable to watching higher talent teams play poorly. Put another way I don't watch baseball for the "abstract over the full 162 game season talent", I watch for the baseball.

And while it is not likely the Twins or Diamondbacks match it to the WS, if they do it will be because of good and likely very watchable play.
   41. Mellow Mouse, Benevolent Space Tyrant Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:27 PM (#5539284)
So yesterday they were talking about the Most Valuable Twin, trying to decide who it was. So I looked at baseball reference today and I was surprised that the answer is Buxton (by WAR anyway).

Seeing as how he is really young and started the year poorly, I admit I am optimistic for the future, even though I suspect the Twins will wash out of this years playoffs pretty quickly.
   42. Jose is an Absurd Doubles Machine Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:30 PM (#5539288)
If the Twins play the Yankees in the Wild Card game I think it could become interesting to see them advance. They have been SO bad against the Yanks over the years, famously so, that getting over that hump would be seen as a meaningful achievement and it would be fun to see if they could use it to propel them forward. I think what I and a lot of people fear is that if that is the WC matchup that by the third inning we will be able to tune to the Big Bang Theory.

As was said though while I have my rooting interests in the end if the games and series are well played and competitive then it will be fun.
   43. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:32 PM (#5539294)
But as long as the Twins, Rockies and Diamondbacks don't make it to the LCS I'll be satisfied with any other matchups


Not sure why you'd lump Arizona with the other two. They have a better record than the Cubs in a much tougher division.
   44. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:38 PM (#5539299)
Judge is a real draw, for sure.

The "team that's had the most success in containing him" is not a real narrative that anyone is aware of or cares about.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I dunno, why do you think the Home Run Derby ratings were up 55% from 2016? Judge is the embodiment of the type of player who brings in the casual fan.

People will tune in to watch Judge. I don't think anyone cares if he's facing Boston, Cleveland, or Houston.


To both of you: You're probably right, though I do think that the Judge factor would add a lot to the already existing Yanks-Sox rivalry, which this year has the greatest number of home grown young stars that those two teams have put together since nearly forever in the free agent era. I can't remember another Yankees team which has been less dependent of Big Contract FA's and more dependent on its farm system products, and I think you could (almost)** say the same thing about the Red Sox.

** I say (almost) because of the Red Sox starting rotation, of which Pomeranz and Rodriguez are the only ones who arrived in Boston before they'd established themselves.
   45. The Non-Catching Molina (sjs1959) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 01:49 PM (#5539309)
Even with market size, does anyone else think a DBacks-Astros WS would make Fox Sports bigwigs want to jump out a window?

Personally, even though I am a Cubs fan for decades, a Washington-Cleveland WS would be the most fun, IMO.
   46. villageidiom Posted: September 26, 2017 at 02:03 PM (#5539325)
I dunno, why do you think the Home Run Derby ratings were up 55% from 2016?
Because Yankees fans decided to watch the HR Derby this year. Duh.

There were 6 MLB cities represented in the HR Derby this year, 8 last year. The MSA population (per 2016 estimates) of those six cities in 2017 is 4 million more people than in the eight cities from 2016. And per TFA viewership went up by 3 million people.

This year NY had two competitors in the derby; last year they had none. Ratings were up in NY, and high in Hartford (where from 25 years of personal experience I can attest there are many Yankees fans), per TFA.

This year KC had a competitor; last year they didn't. Ratings were high in KC, per TFA, and higher than in 2015 (the last year I can get KC-specific data) when they had no Royals in the derby.

Ratings were also a high 7.9 in Pittsburgh, but they were also a high 7.9 in the ratings in 2015, when they (as in 2017) had no Pirates in the derby, and Aaron Judge wasn't there. It's almost as though Aaron Judge was a non-factor in Pittsburgh watching the derby. Huh.

This ain't rocket science.
   47. jmurph Posted: September 26, 2017 at 02:17 PM (#5539346)
Even with market size, does anyone else think a DBacks-Astros WS would make Fox Sports bigwigs want to jump out a window?

I think this is probably overplayed. The TV contracts are signed, the ads are (or surely will be before the league winners are decided) sold. I suppose the argument could be made that it will impact ad sales for next year, but there are only so many time slots, so I'm sure they will be fine.
   48. Tim D Posted: September 26, 2017 at 02:28 PM (#5539364)
AL World Series rep has been from the much-maligned Central for 4 of the past 5 seasons. A perfect AL post-season would be the Astros/Indians going 7 after both sweep the Sox and Yanks respectively. I would be happy with either Houston or Cleveland going to the Series. As to the NL, I lived in SoCal 25 years so, the Dodgers. If LA does make the Series I would abandon my usual AL preference for them against Boston or New York. Cleveland I kind of have to root for. Houston, well JV is one of my top 10 all-time favorite players so I have to pull for him to get a ring.
   49. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: September 26, 2017 at 02:54 PM (#5539382)
The Yankees are every bit as good as Boston and Houston, so you've got three pretty even teams, and Cleveland with a slight edge.

The Indians are the best team in the AL, and I don't think it's particularly close. (I mean, the playoffs being a crapshoot and all, it could be that even a great team has no more than a "slight edge" in any postseason series, pretty much by definition. But IMO the Tribe is hands-down the most balanced and complete AL team, and probably the best in baseball.)
   50. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:03 PM (#5539394)
Yankees-Dodgers in 77/78? I can't think of another one.

I think that was the last one. I read someplace that there've been five series rematches--didn't look it up, but off the top of my head:

1907-08 (Cubs/Tigers)
1952-53 (Yankees/Dodgers)
1955-56 (Yankees/Dodgers)
1957-58 (Yankees/Braves)
1977-78 (Yankees/Dodgers)

Think that's all of 'em. (Christ, being a fan of a non-New York team in the '50s must've been boring as hell.) Only one rematch in the expansion era, none in the wild card era so far.

I predicted a Cubs/Indians rematch at the start of the season, so I suppose there's no reason for me to abandon that forecast for a sixth series rematch--and first in the WC era--now.
   51. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:08 PM (#5539399)
The Indians are the best team in the AL, and I don't think it's particularly close. (I mean, the playoffs being a crapshoot and all, it could be that even a great team has no more than a "slight edge" in any postseason series, pretty much by definition. But IMO the Tribe is hands-down the most balanced and complete AL team, and probably the best in baseball.)

The Indians are very deep, but I just don't think that matters much in Oct.

When I look at the 9 guys that are going to get all the PAs, and the 8 pitchers that are going to get all the IP, I just don't see that much separation over Houston or the Yankees.
   52. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:09 PM (#5539400)
Yankees-Dodgers in 77/78? I can't think of another one.


I think that was the last one. I read someplace that there've been five series rematches--didn't look it up, but off the top of my head:

1907-08 (Cubs/Tigers)
1952-53 (Yankees/Dodgers)
1955-56 (Yankees/Dodgers)
1957-58 (Yankees/Braves)
1977-78 (Yankees/Dodgers)

Think that's all of 'em.


Not quite:

1921-22-23 (Yankees/Giants)
1930-31 (A's/Cardinals)
1936-37 (Yankees-Giants)
1942-43 (Yankees-Cardinals)
   53. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:12 PM (#5539403)
The Indians are very deep, but I just don't think that matters much in Oct.

It's not just depth, though; they have plenty of front-line star talent. (And depth in the bullpen, which the Indians have by the boatload, is I think more important in October than depth elsewhere, at least the way pitchers are handled these days.)
   54. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:13 PM (#5539404)
Not quite:

1921-22-23 (Yankees/Giants)
1930-31 (A's/Cardinals)
1936-37 (Yankees-Giants)
1942-43 (Yankees-Cardinals)


Thanks--obviously, the source claiming there'd been only five such rematches was wrong. Badly so, in fact. (Though my comment that there'd been none in the WC era and one in the expansion era remains accurate.)
   55. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:22 PM (#5539409)
It's not just depth, though; they have plenty of front-line star talent. (And depth in the bullpen, which the Indians have by the boatload, is I think more important in October than depth elsewhere, at least the way pitchers are handled these days.)

If they match up with the Yankees, I don't see the big edge.

Kluber/Carrasco/Bauer/Tomlin vs. Severino/Gray/Tanaka/Sabathia seems pretty even.

Miller/Allen/Shaw/Otero/Goody?Clevinger vs. Chapman/Robertson/Betances/Green/Kahnle/Montgomery seems pretty even.

On offense, both teams have a 104 OPS+, both have stars and good depth.
   56. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:27 PM (#5539413)
Not quite:

1921-22-23 (Yankees/Giants)
1930-31 (A's/Cardinals)
1936-37 (Yankees-Giants)
1942-43 (Yankees-Cardinals)


Thanks--obviously, the source claiming there'd been only five such rematches was wrong. Badly so, in fact. (Though my comment that there'd been none in the WC era and one in the expansion era remains accurate.)


Yeah, I was only trying to supplement your list, not contradict your point. My knowledge of World Series winners and losers (I can almost tell you which team won every ####### game) is one of my many signs of a thoroughly misspent childhood----which would be more forgivable if my childhood had ended about 60 years ago.
   57. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:30 PM (#5539414)
Yeah, I was only trying to supplement your list, not contradict your point.

Oh, I got that, but the fact as reported was obviously wrong, and worth correcting. (And despite my relative youth, had I consulted my mental rolodex in detailed fashion I guarantee I'd have come up with at least a couple of those remaining four.)
   58. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:37 PM (#5539420)
It's not just depth, though; they have plenty of front-line star talent. (And depth in the bullpen, which the Indians have by the boatload, is I think more important in October than depth elsewhere, at least the way pitchers are handled these days.)

If they match up with the Yankees, I don't see the big edge.

Kluber/Carrasco/Bauer/Tomlin vs. Severino/Gray/Tanaka/Sabathia seems pretty even.

Miller/Allen/Shaw/Otero/Goody?Clevinger vs. Chapman/Robertson/Betances/Green/Kahnle/Montgomery seems pretty even.


The Yanks' team ERA+ is 120 to the Indians' 137. That's not a trivial difference, and what it reflects at least in part is the inconsistency of some of the Yankees' key pitchers, Tanaka and Betances in particular, but Chapman's also had plenty of miserable moments. If those above three are on, then the gap narrows a lot, but first let's hope they get past Santana----and for those of us who aren't really superstitious but dabble in it sometimes, just look at the box score for the last time that the Twins beat the Yankees in the ALDS.
   59. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:42 PM (#5539426)
(And despite my relative youth, had I consulted my mental rolodex in detailed fashion I guarantee I'd have come up with at least a couple of those remaining four.)

I'm sure you could, and if you don't mind a suggestion from a geezer, you might enjoy this Fred Lieb book as a great reference in narrative form. Lieb started watching World Series games right from the start, began reporting them in 1908, and didn't die until 1980. I ran into him at the HoF in 1978, and at 90 he was as sharp as ever. We should all be so lucky.
   60. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:44 PM (#5539431)
On the pitching side, the Indians' big edge is the simple fact that Kluber's easily the best pitcher on either team; beyond that the rotations are pretty even, especially if Sabathia continues to pitch well, but Kluber's the only really elite starter on either staff. In the pen, both teams are strong and deep, so that might be a tossup, though Clevinger is an interesting wildcard--he's the guy among those two staffs most likely to make a splash through a surprise start or long-relief outing if a starter gets shelled.

The teams' offenses are differently distributed though of similar quality, but as explosive as Judge and Sanchez are I think I'd prefer a core of Lindor/Ramirez/EE/Santana...even Kipnis, who's a good player having a bad year. The Indians team defense is probably better.

It's not a mismatch, but I think the Indians are pretty clearly the better team, which of course doesn't mean they can't lose a postseason series to anyone in the field...



   61. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:48 PM (#5539432)
The Yanks' team ERA+ is 120 to the Indians' 137. That's not a trivial difference, and what it reflects at least in part is the inconsistency of some of the Yankees' key pitchers, Tanaka and Betances in particular, but Chapman's also had plenty of miserable moments. If those above three are on, then the gap narrows a lot,

It doesn't matter what the season stats are, it matters what the talent level of the pitchers is, and how they're pitching now. Also, the current Yankees staff isn't accurately reflected in their season stats because Gray, Robertson, and Kahnle joined at mid-season.
   62. Spahn Insane, stimulus-funded BurlyMan™ Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:49 PM (#5539433)
I'm sure you could, and if you don't mind a suggestion from a geezer, you might enjoy this Fred Lieb book as a great reference in narrative form. Lieb started watching World Series games right from the start, began reporting them in 1908, and didn't die until 1980. I ran into him at the HoF in 1978, and at 90 he was as sharp as ever. We should all be so lucky.

That's a great recommendation--I love that kind of stuff. Thanks.

(And that's awesome that you got to meet and talk to Lieb.)
   63. cmd600 Posted: September 26, 2017 at 03:57 PM (#5539438)
Kluber/Carrasco/Bauer/Tomlin vs. Severino/Gray/Tanaka/Sabathia seems pretty even.


These four guys on the Indians have put up about a combined 3.36 FIP to the Yankees 3.94. Even with the Indians choosing their number six starter, they have a significantly better rotation than the Yankees.
   64. Tim D Posted: September 26, 2017 at 04:11 PM (#5539447)
If bad Aaron Judge shows up the Yankees will have a hard time against anybody in the playoffs. If it's good Aaron Judge they could beat anybody.
   65. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 04:25 PM (#5539458)
That's a great recommendation--I love that kind of stuff. Thanks.

Of my ~800 baseball books, it's one of my 10 favorites, and other than the BJNHA, it's the one I may have referred to the most often. Only the NY Times' PDF archive is a better source of first hand information about World Series games.

(And that's awesome that you got to meet and talk to Lieb.)

It wasn't much more than a slightly awed handshake and a few fleeting words (he was about to enter the HoF library, which was off-limits to laymen), but to me it was like shaking hands with God. Lieb's just below James, Koppett and Angell on my list of favorite baseball writers, and his first hand World Series memories go back a lot further than Angell's, reaching from Huntington Avenue Grounds in 1903 to Baltimore's Memorial Stadium in 1979.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

If bad Aaron Judge shows up the Yankees will have a hard time against anybody in the playoffs. If it's good Aaron Judge they could beat anybody.

My thoughts exactly. I just hope they get a chance to play more than one game.
   66. Astroenteritis Posted: September 26, 2017 at 05:09 PM (#5539482)
If not the Astros, I guess I would like to see Cleveland win it all. Spending most of my 50 years of fandom in the NL, I don't have the animosity toward Yankees or Red Sox that many have, though I don't need to see them on TV every other Sunday night. The Yankees are a good story, with all their young guys, and the fact they weren't fancied to do much this year. Given a choice, I'll always root for the team that hasn't won in a long time, or ever. So Montreal/Washington or Colorado (if they make it) would be OK, too.

We've gotten to a point where Cleveland, Washington/Texas and Houston are in their own category of championship futility, with Montreal/Washington, San Diego, and Seattle/Milwaukee not far behind.
   67. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 26, 2017 at 06:04 PM (#5539518)
If CLE or HOU get to the WS, this might be the first time I root for an AL team. I love Altuve and Correa and Lindor, they are so fun to watch.

If the Dodgers get to the WS, I want to see Kershaw pitch 3 shutouts. They can lose the WS, but I'm rooting for Kershaw.

I'm not about to change 60 years of rooting against the Yankees. How I knew they were villains when I was 6, I don't know (no parental influence of any kind), but I did. I was excited when the Braves won in '57, very disappointed that they lost in '58.
   68. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 06:12 PM (#5539524)
Edmundo,

Check your email inbox.
   69. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 26, 2017 at 08:53 PM (#5539603)
Andy,
Not seeing anything.
   70. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: September 26, 2017 at 08:59 PM (#5539610)
Weird, as I sent the message via BTF's relay service just before I posted that last comment. Check your spam folder, and if it's not there just email me by clicking on my name.
   71. Heart of Matt Harvey Posted: September 26, 2017 at 09:20 PM (#5539634)
The Diamondbacks are arguably better than the Cubs, and have the record to prove it.
   72. villageidiom Posted: September 27, 2017 at 09:28 AM (#5539911)
Weird, as I sent the message via BTF's relay service just before I posted that last comment. Check your spam folder, and if it's not there just email me by clicking on my name.
I've had a similar issue lately. Some email isn't showing up in my inbox nor my spam folder, in my ISP email account. In my gmail account the same emails from the same person will show but I'll get a warning saying "Gmail couldn't verify that __________ actually sent this message (and not a spammer)."
   73. Rusty Priske Posted: September 27, 2017 at 09:40 AM (#5539919)
The best team is Cleveland.

Who I am rooting for:

1. Dodgers or Astros
2. Anybody not listed above or below
3. Cleveland

Change the name. Eliminate the racist iconography. Move on.

Personally I would think it would be great if they revived the Cleveland Spiders name.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Infinite Yost (Voxter)
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogESPN: Carlos Santana signing a significant step in Phillies' rebuild (Schoenfield)
(7 - 11:22pm, Dec 16)
Last: Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play

NewsblogOT - 2017 NFL thread
(392 - 11:15pm, Dec 16)
Last: Nasty Nate

NewsblogCC Sabathia agrees to deal to return to Yanks | MLB.com
(25 - 11:13pm, Dec 16)
Last: cardsfanboy

NewsblogOTP 11 December, 2017 - GOP strategist: Moore would have 'date with a baseball bat' if he tried dating teens where I grew up
(2407 - 11:08pm, Dec 16)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogChatwood Initial Deal with Cubs Violated Rules – Inside the Seams
(15 - 10:58pm, Dec 16)
Last: Gold Star - just Gold Star

NewsblogBraves send Matt Kemp to Dodgers for Adrian Gonzalez, more major-leaguers | CBS Sports
(24 - 10:24pm, Dec 16)
Last: JJ1986

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot Discussion
(404 - 10:11pm, Dec 16)
Last: Mike Webber

NewsblogOT - NBA 2017-2018 Tip-off Thread
(2033 - 9:42pm, Dec 16)
Last: Tom Cervo, backup catcher

NewsblogPadres acquire shortstop Freddy Galvis from Phillies - The San Diego Union-Tribune
(1 - 8:44pm, Dec 16)
Last: eddieot

NewsblogMany moving parts to potential Zack Greinke trade
(6 - 8:21pm, Dec 16)
Last: Ziggy: The Platonic Form of Russell Branyan

Gonfalon CubsLooking to next year
(348 - 7:31pm, Dec 16)
Last: Quaker

Hall of Merit2018 Hall of Merit Ballot
(35 - 5:54pm, Dec 16)
Last: OCF

NewsblogOT - College Football Bowl Spectacular (December 2017 - January 2018)
(137 - 5:16pm, Dec 16)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

NewsblogOT: Winter Soccer Thread
(375 - 4:55pm, Dec 16)
Last: Nose army. Beef diaper? (CoB)

NewsblogWinter Meeting Signings
(32 - 4:42pm, Dec 16)
Last: Walt Davis

Page rendered in 0.9812 seconds
47 querie(s) executed