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Saturday, July 30, 2011

Smith: Yankees should think again if pursuing Ubaldo Jimenez trade, they have his type in Burnett

Yes, all those 130 ERA+ seasons start to look the same after a while…

When Burnett signed his five-year, $82.5 million contract, the Yankees didn’t expect his record to be below .500 (31-33) in the first three years.

The trade deadline clock is ticking loudly now, and Ubaldo Jimenez continues to be the name on the lips of everyone who wants Cashman to make a move. The Rockies’ asking price has been too high, even though the 27-year-old righty is supposed to have a manageable contract and ace-like stuff.

Not getting Jimenez would not be a disaster for the Yankees. It could be one of the best things that happen to them if they don’t get him. He could turn out to be a future Burnett - fool’s gold - if he lands in the Bronx.

...If Jimenez joined the Yankees rotation, could he have an immediate impact or would the Bombers have to wait for him to have that rebound season next year?

The Yankees already have an A.J. Burnett. They don’t need another

Repoz Posted: July 30, 2011 at 12:02 PM | 50 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: projections, rockies, sabermetrics, yankees

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Dan The Mediocre Posted: July 30, 2011 at 01:36 PM (#3888944)
Jimenez is a much better pitcher than Burnett, and is 5 years younger than Burnett was when he went to the Yankees. The price being too high is one issue, but there's no reason to believe that Jimenez will be anything other than a good pitcher over the next 5 years.
   2. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 30, 2011 at 02:13 PM (#3888953)
This was so stupid I thought it must have been written by Steven A. Smith.
   3. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 30, 2011 at 03:54 PM (#3888988)
Sowhat's fair return for Ubaldo? Montero, Betances and Nova enough?
   4. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 30, 2011 at 04:22 PM (#3889003)
I think Colorado would ask for more, and why not? Is there really an organizational push to get rid of Ubaldo? Rockies GM Dan O'Dowd said he wanted a Herschel Walker-sized haul and why wouldn't he when he could revisit the possibility at the end of the year.

Montero, Betances, Nova, Austin Romine, and Adam Warren for Jimenez and Ty Wigginton, that's the kind of haul you have to think O'Dowd wants for trading a young, cost-controlled elite power pitcher under team control for two more years. You can quibble about the remaining names (Noesi for Warren, or David Adams for Romine) but that should be the price. I wouldn't pay it, but if I cared about my local Rockies as much as I do about the Yankees I'd be angry if that wasn't the expected level of return.
   5. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 30, 2011 at 04:38 PM (#3889010)
Yeah, there is absolutely no need for the Rockies to trade Ubaldo unless they get a big haul in return. He's under contract for a couple more years, he's relatively cheap, and the Rockies have a reasonable expectation of contending in the next season or two. If someone blows you away with a trade offer, sure, but if I were O'Dowd, I'd ask for the moon, too. The downside is that you have an excellent starting pitcher in your rotation for the next couple of years.
   6. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: July 30, 2011 at 04:39 PM (#3889013)
Speaking of pitchers who are under contract for a couple more years, the Tigers have acquired Doug Fister and David Pauley from the Mariners.

Mariners get Charlie Furbush, Casper Wells, a PTBNL, and Francisco Martinez (3B, 20 years old, starting at AA) (Tigers' 4th best prospect preseason -- BA) (Tigers' 6th best prospect preseason -- KLAW).

There have been 8 Francisco Martinezes in the minor leagues, but this one looks like he'll be the first one in the majors.
   7. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: July 30, 2011 at 04:44 PM (#3889015)
The downside is that you have an excellent starting pitcher in your rotation for the next couple of years.


Nah, the downside is that Ubaldo's well-documented drop in velocity this year is the harbinger of trouble to come. I'd sort of assumed that the only reason the Rockies were even entertaining any offers was because they had something less than complete confidence in his health going forward.
   8. Justin T is going to crush some tacos Thursday Posted: July 30, 2011 at 04:46 PM (#3889016)
Wither Penny?
   9. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: July 30, 2011 at 10:21 PM (#3889142)
elite


Well, that's the rub, isn't it.

The Yankees have said that they don't consider Jiminez to be in that "elite" class of pitchers.. With the velocity drop and his performance the last year (2nd half 2010 + 2011) and the change in leagues, I can't say I disagree with them, at least not to the point where I'd bet the farm on it.

In any case, the price has supposedly come down a bit to Betances, Montero and Nova.

I'd have to think that's getting close to a point where Cashman would have to seriously consider it.
   10. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:08 PM (#3889170)
I was hoping the Red Sox would get Fister.

Something must be wrong with Jimenez, physically. If the Rockies are close to contending, they don't get closer by dealing their ace.
   11. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:15 PM (#3889172)
Anyone who thinks there's something wrong with Jimenez hasn't been paying attention the past two months.
   12. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:21 PM (#3889178)
5 and 5 with 24 ER's in 64 innings his last 10 starts? That's an ace?
   13. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:27 PM (#3889182)
A lot of noise that he's going to Cleveland.
   14. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:30 PM (#3889184)
5 and 5 with 24 ER's in 64 innings his last 10 starts?


That's a nice way of dealing with the fact that he threw a complete-game shutout 11 starts ago. He's got a 3.03 ERA in his last 11 starts, which is about a 150 ERA+ in Coors Field.

Ubaldo's peripherals are about the same as last year's, when he started the All-Star game. His K/W is actually better this year. He'll be all right.
   15. Dan Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:44 PM (#3889196)
Ubaldo scratched from his start. Looks like a deal is going down.

Apparently the Yankees wanted to get him for Hughes and some B-level prospects (according to Joel Sherman). I guess they were looking to buy low if the Rockies really thought there was something wrong with him, but if they weren't going to include Montero and one of Betances/Banuelos I don't think they had a real shot.
   16. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:48 PM (#3889203)
I went to Yahoo and the only list his last ten starts. Throw out that CG and what's his ERA in those 10 games?

I like Jimenez. I'd love to see him on the Red Sox. All I said was that he wasn't having an "ace" season, and Colorado would be silly to deal him for prospects if he's healthy, and if they're close to contending.
   17. rr Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:49 PM (#3889204)
Jimenez has been scratched from his start tonight.

Coke to 15.

As per WEEI, Jimenez is going to the Indians.
   18. Dan Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:52 PM (#3889208)
Alex White and Pomeranz are both reportedly in the deal.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:52 PM (#3889211)
As per WEEI, Jimenez is going to the Indians.

Good for Cleveland.
   20. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3889213)
Alex White and Pomeranz are both reportedly in the deal.

That's two of the best pitching prospects in the game. TNSTAAPP and all but wow. Is Cleveland behaving irresponsibly? This feels like a step backwards and undoing a lot of good work.
   21. rr Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3889214)
Yes, Pomeranz was scratched tonight as well.
   22. Dan Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:58 PM (#3889218)
Deal will involve pomeranz white mcbride. Waiting official announcement


Source
   23. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 30, 2011 at 11:58 PM (#3889219)
Wow. Very good for Cleveland.
   24. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:04 AM (#3889226)
Good for Cleveland.


Perfect outcome. Didn't really want pay the price Colorado was demanding, didn't really want to see him go somewhere dangerous ...
   25. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:11 AM (#3889236)
That's two of the best pitching prospects in the game. TNSTAAPP and all but wow. Is Cleveland behaving irresponsibly? This feels like a step backwards and undoing a lot of good work.

In the pre-season BA top 100, Pomeranz and White were 61 and 47.

If the Indians kept Chisenhall and Kipnis, this is a good deal. Colorado was asking the Yankees for 3 top 50 prospects.
   26. Dan Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:12 AM (#3889238)
Looks like Ubaldo might still pitch, but a deal is close.
   27. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:13 AM (#3889239)
If Cleveland makes the post-season, they're dangerous, and even if the Yankees had gotten UJ, the Red Sox would still be a near-lock for October.

The 2011 AL East will be another race lost to the WC. And get off my frigging lawn.
   28. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:15 AM (#3889242)
Tracy Ringolsby on the Twitter: "Ubaldo headed to bullpem. He is starting for Colorado at this time."

Yep, he said "bullpem."
   29. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:18 AM (#3889248)
Hmmm. Like I said, I got it off WEEI.
   30. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:19 AM (#3889251)
Where are you, rr?
   31. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:21 AM (#3889256)
If Cleveland makes the post-season, they're dangerous


Technically, any team that makes the post-season is theoretically dangerous. But if the AL post-season is BOS, NYY, TEX and CLE, the Indians are the patsy of that bunch and with good reason.
   32. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#3889260)
As the inimitable Iceman King Parsons said to the great Buddy Roberts after their "hair match", "U bald (o)!"
   33. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:23 AM (#3889261)
San Diego. Babysitting for a friend (no Extra Innings here) and had BOS/CHI on Gameday Audio. Just put on KOA Rockies feed right now. Can hear the creepy Matthew McConaghey beef ad right now.
   34. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:25 AM (#3889267)
Ah.
   35. Dan Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#3889276)
Joel Sherman claims the Yankees haven't talked to the Rockies about Jimenez since 4 days ago, so even if Cleveland doesn't happen it doesn't look like it will be the Yankees making a deal here.
   36. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:35 AM (#3889280)
Joel Sherman claims the Yankees haven't talked to the Rockies about Jimenez since 4 days ago, so even if Cleveland doesn't happen it doesn't look like it will be the Yankees making a deal here.


Which is interesting, since others claimed specifically that the Rockies dropped their price today in regards to which Yankees prospects they were demanding.

The trade deadline, gotta love it!
   37. Dan Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:36 AM (#3889281)
The trade deadline, gotta love it!


Twitter has really taken the craziness up another 10 notches or so as well.
   38. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:39 AM (#3889285)
Jimenez is pitching. COL radio guys are not talking about any deals.
   39. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:51 AM (#3889292)
Jimenez is pitching. COL radio guys are not talking about any deals.


The trade deadline, gotta love it!!!
   40. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 12:57 AM (#3889297)
They said talks with CLE are ongoing and a guy is "throwing along with Ubaldo" in the pen in case UJ gets pulled.

It is 2-2 in the first; maybe Jimenez is distracted. He has walked three guys.

4-2 Pads.

4th BB. Pads have batted around.
   41. The John Wetland Memorial Death (CoB) Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#3889300)
[35] Hmmm, there's more to that, it seems:


Joel Sherman of The New York Post reports (on Twitter) that four days ago the Yankees asked the Rockies if they could perform a physical on Jimenez if the two sides came to an agreement on a trade. Colorado refused, so the Yankees backed out.


That's certainly another something to consider ...
   42. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:15 AM (#3889303)
Jimenez has left the game. Esmil Rogers in.
   43. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:17 AM (#3889306)
NESN just showed Ubaldo being pulled and getting "hugs" in the dugout. Almost certainly traded somewhere, I suppose.
   44. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:18 AM (#3889308)
Yeah, that is what the COL radio guys said.
   45. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:27 AM (#3889313)
I said in a Pirates thread awhile ago that if I were them, I'd go all in because flags fly forever and you never know what could happen in October, and they haven't made it in so long and you never know if prospects will pan out, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Well I'm going to contradict myself with the Indians. I don't get it. They're one game over .500. I understand Jimenez has several years left on his contract, but that is a steeeep price to pay for a guy with red flags. And no physical? Yikes. Good luck Tribe.
   46. rr Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:32 AM (#3889316)
Uehara to Texas for Davis and Hunter.

BAL lost G1 8-3 and is losing G2 16-2 to NYY. I am sure Showalter is enjoying himself.
   47. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:33 AM (#3889318)
Reports coming in that the Red Sox are trading for Rich Harden.
   48. JJ1986 Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:49 AM (#3889334)
Reports coming in that the Red Sox are trading for Rich Harden.


In related news, the Red Sox are planning on placing Rich Harden on the disabled list sometime soon.
   49. Biff, highly-regarded young guy Posted: July 31, 2011 at 01:52 AM (#3889339)
In related news, the Red Sox are planning on placing Rich Harden on the disabled list sometime soon.

Hey, Buchholz and Matsuzaka need company.
   50. JJ1986 Posted: July 31, 2011 at 02:19 AM (#3889358)
I don't see it on the internet, but Orioles announcers are saying Lee to the Pirates is done.

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