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Wednesday, May 02, 2012

OT: Soccer Thread—May 2012

League all around will have their Champion decided! Bilbao or Atlético Madrid will reign over the Europa League! Chelsea tries to finally bring Roman a European Cup

And most important of all…West Ham drives for promotion!

RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:53 PM | 1485 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   1101. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 21, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4137376)
I read that some Bayern players refused to take PKs

Was Robben the only one named?


Kroos and Tymoshchuk, who has a cannon. Müller was seen pleading with him, and apparently he just repeatedly shook his head.
   1102. puck Posted: May 21, 2012 at 09:50 PM (#4137392)
   1103. Juan V Posted: May 22, 2012 at 12:58 AM (#4137518)
Juan: Ribery was injured in the winning of that penalty and had to come off. Under different circumstances, perhaps he would have stepped up to take it. Anyway, the Fox commentators were actually speculating before the spot kick that Ribery's injury and the two minutes or so it took to get him off the pitch certainly wouldn't be helping Robben's nerves.


Forgot about that, thanks. Still, Robben did take (and miss) that penalty against Dortmund.
   1104. ursus arctos Posted: May 22, 2012 at 08:03 AM (#4137556)
Mourinho has signed a new contract with Madrid through 2016.
   1105. Mattbert Posted: May 22, 2012 at 08:56 AM (#4137569)
Forgot about that, thanks. Still, Robben did take (and miss) that penalty against Dortmund.

Yeah, I was half-expecting Gomez to take it. He is usually ice on spot kicks.
   1106. Mattbert Posted: May 22, 2012 at 11:39 AM (#4137697)
Ten terrific goals from the Guardian.
   1107. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 22, 2012 at 11:52 AM (#4137704)
#3 is my favorite there because it's so nonchalant.

#6 was apparently shot in Instagram.

#7 and #9 are ridiculous.
   1108. jolietconvict Posted: May 22, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4137856)
There's a Dutch guy who is quoted at length in David Winner's Brilliant Orange who probably has that data. There are also national teams (Germany being one) who compile dossiers on the tendencies of their opponents' most likely penalty takers before major tournaments.


Apparently Petr Cech had a two-hour DVD containing every penalty Bayern has taken since 2007 which he studied prior to the game.
   1109. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: May 22, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4137870)
#5 is bonkers. Two goals from 50+ yards out.
   1110. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 22, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4137942)
Gallows humor, Bruce Arena edition. With Landon Donovan and Robbie Keane off for national team duty, Arena isn't worried about how the Galaxy will perform:

"We haven’t won with those players, so I don't think it’s going to hurt us."

Truth hurts.
   1111. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 23, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4138796)
12 game suspension, £75,000 fine for Joey Barton.

Looks like Liverpool's new Sporting Director is... Louis van Gaal.

Yesterday we had the 10 best (non-EPL and other major teams) goals, today the 10 Worst Misses. Featuring Robbie Findley!
   1112. Mattbert Posted: May 23, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4138856)
Apparently Petr Cech had a two-hour DVD containing every penalty Bayern has taken since 2007 which he studied prior to the game.

I wonder if there's any hay to me made in looking not only at what a guy's tendencies are overall, but also in different situations. For example, Frank Lampard is probably the guy I've seen take the most penalties over the last few years. He seems to be pretty good at mixing up his spots. He'll go left, right, and into the roof of the net right down the middle like he did in the shootout on Saturday.

What I'd want to know is if he has a favorite or most reliable spot he'll usually aim for when it's a high pressure penalty (e.g. CL final) and then he's happy to have a crack in different spots under less intense circumstances (e.g. pushing a three-goal lead to four against a relegation candidate).
   1113. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 23, 2012 at 04:23 PM (#4138873)
I have no doubt that those things are studied and tracked. There's a whole chapter in Soccernomics about it.
   1114. ursus arctos Posted: May 23, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4138879)
You do have a real sample size problem, though.

Even someone like Lampard, who has been playing at the highest level for a long time, has only taken three or four "high leverage" penalties in his career (two CL finals, vs. Portugal in the 2006 WC, maybe one in Euros). The very small number of observations and the length of time they are collected over would make me very wary of drawing conclusions.
   1115. Swedish Chef Posted: May 23, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4138894)
Looks like Liverpool's new Sporting Director is... Louis van Gaal.

I'm pretty sure this means that they won't get a top manager. The chains of command can get blurred when a manager is put into that post, and it doesn't get any better with van Gaal's reputation for being opinionated and domineering. So I'll guess Martinez then.
   1116. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 23, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4138897)
You do have a real sample size problem, though.


Agreed if you're defining high leverage as the competition and not the context of the game. A PK in the World Cup is nice, but just that description alone tells you nothing. If it was a 2-0 game that England was winning, or in the 5th minute, where's the leverage? I'd say any PK in a tie game or to tie a game after say, 60 minutes is a high leverage situation, regardless of the competition. You're then changing the outcome of the game and the styles of play of both teams with that goal. That's the definition of game changing. I also would include any PK in major competitions (professional and national continental competition, WC, rivalry friendlies) to widen the sample size, because a player is more likely to go with his best shot in that situation.
   1117. ursus arctos Posted: May 23, 2012 at 05:21 PM (#4138914)
The Lampard kicks I noted were all in shootouts. I don't think he's ever been England's primary "in game" penalty taker.

Though he has acted in that role for Chelsea, so I would think the study you suggest would be worthwhile, even if it only gave you a marginal increase in data on one of the five takers.
   1118. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 23, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4138916)
Beyond the lack of high leverage PKs is the lack of any PKs. I believe the only three Bayern players who took a penalty this year were Robben, Gomez and Schweinsteiger. There simply was no data available for Lahm, Neuer or whoever the other taker was.

I suspect the biggest thing it does for the keeper is give him confidence to dive in one direction or the other. It's such a desperate act you need to go all in and if you wind up looking ridiculous so be it, but you can't go half hearted because that means you don't cover as much ground.
   1119. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 23, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4138934)
The Lampard kicks I noted were all in shootouts. I don't think he's ever been England's primary "in game" penalty taker.


Didn't mean to imply he was. I started that part talking about Lampard in particular but then went into talking about players in general, should have changed "England" to "a player's team."

Beyond the lack of high leverage PKs is the lack of any PKs. I believe the only three Bayern players who took a penalty this year were Robben, Gomez and Schweinsteiger. There simply was no data available for Lahm, Neuer or whoever the other taker was.


Agreed, but a team and keeper still need to gameplan against those that do take them. Knowing the tenancies of three guys is pretty good in the scheme of things. If the guy still scores, well, what can you do. You played the odds and lost. It happens.
   1120. puck Posted: May 23, 2012 at 05:58 PM (#4138937)
From:
Yesterday we had the 10 best (non-EPL and other major teams) goals, today the 10 Worst Misses. Featuring Robbie Findley!


Luiz Adriano (SHAKHTAR DONETSK v Metalurg)

I was surprised at the stadium--it looked to be indoors, and turf (due to the blue border around the pitch), and not what I remember from Shakhtar's games in the Champions League. But the youtube caption says Cup of Ukraine, 2012, and some googling shows that was played at the Olympic Stadium in Kiev, which supposedly has natural grass. (And is where the Euro final will be played.) I guess the blue surface threw me off.

   1121. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 23, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4138947)
Hey Spurs fans! UEFA willing to review rule that led to Spurs missing Champions League

...in three years.

Money quote:

He rejected suggestions that Spurs were being unfairly punished. "No, they have not been punished, They know the rules, they should have been third and not fourth," said Platini.


Yeah, #### that team for choosing to finish 4th.
   1122. Mattbert Posted: May 23, 2012 at 08:09 PM (#4139011)
I thought this was the money quote myself:
He also joked that if Juventus had been in Tottenham's position his view might have been different, saying: "If Juventus was the fourth team of Italy perhaps I will change the rule!"
   1123. Borussia, Du bist so wunderschön! (Mark Edward) Posted: May 23, 2012 at 08:45 PM (#4139029)
Awww this is just too cute.
   1124. Textbook Editor Posted: May 23, 2012 at 10:24 PM (#4139088)
He also joked that if Juventus had been in Tottenham's position his view might have been different, saying: "If Juventus was the fourth team of Italy perhaps I will change the rule!"


Why not bump a team that gets bumped out like Spurs to the very 1st qualifying round and let the chips fall?

I'm also very much in favor for letting the Europa League winner into the Champions League the following season--not into the group draw, but maybe an early qualifying round. Would make the pursuit of that title pretty important (which is what everyone always seems to be saying is the problem with the Europa League title).
   1125. Mattbert Posted: May 23, 2012 at 11:06 PM (#4139101)
Why not bump a team that gets bumped out like Spurs to the very 1st qualifying round and let the chips fall?

In many ways, that's a fate worse than getting bumped. Qualifying starts in late June or early July, a burden in any year but especially this year as the Euros don't end until July 1st. In Tottenham's case, that would probably mean several of their top players would have had almost no break before their club season kicked off again. Tack that onto a team that ran out of gas in March and finished the season wearily (again), and it starts to look like a bit of a poisoned chalice. Also, starting that early would scupper the value of any player the club planned to sell in the summer if he was immediately cup-tied for the biggest tournament in club football.

I am much happier to have Spurs play in the Europa League, especially if Harry deigns to take it seriously. It is a terrific opportunity to blood in some of the younger players and keep the fringey first teamers match fit, but hopefully not all at once this time. I am not holding my breath, as intelligent squad rotation does not appear to be something that will happen during the Redknapp Era.
   1126. Mattbert Posted: May 23, 2012 at 11:27 PM (#4139107)
I'm also very much in favor for letting the Europa League winner into the Champions League the following season--not into the group draw, but maybe an early qualifying round. Would make the pursuit of that title pretty important (which is what everyone always seems to be saying is the problem with the Europa League title).

I think the last qualifying round would be fair. Chelsea gets to go straight into the group stage.

If it's a choice between extremes, I'm even more in favor of telling the CL winner to go pound sand if they can't be bothered to qualify for the following season's competition on the merits. I don't get the obsession with having the holder in the tournament come hell or high water. I think the last club to win consecutive European Cups was Liverpool, and that was in the 70s. Certainly no club has done it in the era of big television money.

So who cares? Isn't this whole thing nominally about having the best teams in Europe go at it hammer and tongs? Chelsea was one of those best teams this year. They aren't any more. Big deal. Nobody can take this year's trophy away from them just because they sputtered domestically.

The solution that I think would be most equitable is to have a non-qualifying CL winner enter the final CL qualifying round with the Europa League winner. That way no team that actually earned their corn gets screwed by the goalposts moving at the 11th hour.
   1127. Richard Posted: May 23, 2012 at 11:40 PM (#4139108)
If it's a choice between extremes, I'm even more in favor of telling the CL winner to go pound sand if they can't be bothered to qualify for the following season's competition on the merits. I don't get the obsession with having the holder in the tournament come hell or high water. I think the last club to win consecutive European Cups was Liverpool, and that was in the 70s. Certainly no club has done it in the era of big television money.

Milan in 1989-90. No one has retained the Champions League since the creation of group stages in 1992.

The old way, restricting entry to Champions and the holders, is infintiely prefeable to allowing 3rd and 4th place teams finishing 20 points behind the winners to enter, but there's no going back now we have this cash cow.

And letting a 4th placed team in has less merit than letting the holders in. I despise Chelsea and all they stand for, but their achievement in winning this thing is far more impressive than finishing 4th in the EPL. A Champion should be allowed to defend its title.
   1128. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 24, 2012 at 12:21 AM (#4139116)
So who cares? Isn't this whole thing nominally about having the best teams in Europe go at it hammer and tongs?


It was, but now it's about making money, and Chelsea brings in more money.
   1129. ursus arctos Posted: May 24, 2012 at 08:16 AM (#4139156)
The blue material at the Olimpiyskiy is cosmetic covering for the athletics track (blue being one of the national colors).

The stadium has been completely rebuilt for the Euros (in a very long, drawn out, and allegedly corrupt process), and looks completely different from when I saw Dynamo play there in the mid-80s.

My favorite factoid about it is that its original name was the "Red Stadium of Trotsky". That didn't last long.

More history here.
   1130. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 24, 2012 at 08:30 AM (#4139158)
In many ways, that's a fate worse than getting bumped. Qualifying starts in late June or early July, a burden in any year but especially this year as the Euros don't end until July 1st. In Tottenham's case, that would probably mean several of their top players would have had almost no break before their club season kicked off again. Tack that onto a team that ran out of gas in March and finished the season wearily (again), and it starts to look like a bit of a poisoned chalice. Also, starting that early would scupper the value of any player the club planned to sell in the summer if he was immediately cup-tied for the biggest tournament in club football.


Based on what we see from teams in the Europa League I think it's a safe bet that a chance at reaching the group stage of the Champions League would be viewed very positively.
   1131. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 09:14 AM (#4139177)
it's about making money, and Chelsea brings in more money.

You sure about that? Chelsea gets paid more money, I'll grant you that.
   1132. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 09:16 AM (#4139178)
Based on what we see from teams in the Europa League I think it's a safe bet that a chance at reaching the group stage of the Champions League would be viewed very positively.

It's an even safer bet that said chance would be viewed even more positively if it meant starting your season in mid-August instead of early July.
   1133. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 24, 2012 at 09:21 AM (#4139179)

It's an even safer bet that said chance would be viewed even more positively if it meant starting your season in mid-August instead of early July.


Well yeah, I don't dispute that. My point is that if you ranked them the choices would be;

1. Entry to Group Stage
2. Entry at some Qualifying Round
3. Europa League

   1134. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 09:44 AM (#4139187)
Right. I'm sure clubs would jump at the chance, any chance, to make it to the Champions League. However, I think that kicking off in early July and playing eight high-pressure games before your season would normally start is as likely as not to handicap your season due to the resultant fatigue unless you've got a particularly deep squad.

So while the Europa League won't be as good as the Champions League for Tottenham's bottom line next season, I think there's a good chance it will be better for the club's longer-term development. Especially if they manage to retool a bit this summer and can make another concerted effort at the top three in 2012-2013.
   1135. Flynn Posted: May 24, 2012 at 10:14 AM (#4139206)
The closest any CL club has come to retaining the trophy is Ajax, who won in great style in 95 and lost on penalties to Juve in the following year's final. Probably the best CL (post-92) team ever, if you ask me.

If we're talking about things that would never happen, giving the domestic Cup winners along with the league champion a CL place would be fun. It'd be an incredible shot in the arms to all the domestic Cups.
   1136. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 24, 2012 at 10:30 AM (#4139212)
Marco Di Vaio is officially coming to Montreal. Nice. Hopefully Pippo and Del Piero follow suit.

The Louis van Gaal to Liverpool rumor is far from a done deal, at least based on what I've read. Not sure why The Guardian ran with such a sensationalist headline, but that appears to be their wont. This morning I read that van Gaal still has some managerial hopes. I'd think it would be an awkward situation for the new manager to have van Gaal 'above' him.
   1137. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:09 AM (#4139243)
Jen Chang of Sports Illustrated is Liverpool's new director of communications. Cue up your standard issue "Americanization of Liverpool" comments.

The Di Vaio signing is nice because more talent in MLS is never a bad thing, but it doesn't help the stigma of MLS as a retirement farm. Personally I don't have a problem with it, get the best players you can, period. The salary cap ensures that there will always be a lot of young (i.e. cheap) players in the league anyway.

You sure about that? Chelsea gets paid more money, I'll grant you that.


They'll sell more tickets and get better TV ratings than Spurs will.
   1138. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:17 AM (#4139253)
It's a strange one, Keith. You'd think that if Liverpool were really that enamored with van Gaal they'd just make him the traditional English model manager with full authority over transfer policy and scouting. It's entirely possible that FSG is more enamored with the DoF/coach division of labor approach more than they are with any one individual, though.
   1139. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:20 AM (#4139257)
They'll sell more tickets and get better TV ratings than Spurs will.

Selling more tickets makes more money for Chelsea, not UEFA. And I think the TV ratings would be close. Chelsea has a greater international following, but I believe their domestic support is substantially smaller than Tottenham's.
   1140. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:27 AM (#4139273)
Selling more tickets makes more money for Chelsea, not UEFA. And I think the TV ratings would be close. Chelsea has a greater international following, but I believe their domestic support is substantially smaller than Tottenham's.


I'm not talking about the domestic side, both teams will do tremendously well in England. Nor am I talking about the money that UEFA makes directly, I'm talking about the money other teams will make, that's the whole reason they play these games these days, for the revenue. They'll sell more tickets on the road (at a higher price if teams do dynamic ticket pricing), putting more money in other team's pockets and they'll get better TV ratings, meaning higher ad fees. Chelsea's more popular and are defending champions, the trickle down effect is and will be greater than it would be for Spurs.
   1141. Swedish Chef Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4139279)
The rules isn't there to punish the Spurs, it's to stop England from whining until they get five spots like last time, and that ####### entitlement is a huge red flag for most other federations.

Anyway, the reigning champ having another go at it is a more attractive proposition and an easier sell for the Champions League than whoever ends up fourth in whatever league entering.
   1142. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4139288)
I'd hope that clubs wouldn't have trouble selling out their ground for a Champions League game, whether they're playing Chelsea or Tottenham. And if they do have trouble, all they'd have to do to fill it is increase the ticket allocation for the travelling support if Tottenham was in town. Spurs had a waiting list for away tickets several thousand names long during their 2010-11 CL run.

The dynamic pricing is a fair point, assuming those clubs would jack up the price for The Holders another tier beyond their usual Champions League price.

Not sure about ad fees. UEFA sells the television rights on a three-year package basis. Isn't it then up to the broadcasters to squeeze as much as they can out of their advertisers? UEFA and the clubs wouldn't see any of that theoretical additional revenue, as far as I know.
   1143. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:50 AM (#4139302)
The rules isn't there to punish the Spurs, it's to stop England from whining until they get five spots like last time, and that ####### entitlement is a huge red flag for most other federations.

Of course it's not there to punish Spurs specifically. But there is definitely a collective chip on the shoulder about England, as reflected by Platini's (half-joking) comment about Juve vs Spurs.

Look, if your league's coefficient is good enough to send four teams to the CL and good enough to produce a fifth team that wins the thing, then that's not entitlement is it? It's merit. All those clubs earned the right to have a crack at winning the pot.
   1144. ursus arctos Posted: May 24, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4139310)
I really don't have any problem with keeping the limit at four. And I don't think that you should take Platini's joke at face value.

As to the drawing power of various teams, the reality is that in a number of countries (Italy being one), group stage matches against anything other than the likes of Man United and Barcelona are a hard sell. When we were in Milan, clubs like Arsenal, Ajax, Porto, Werder Bremen, etc played to stadia that were half full.
   1145. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 24, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4139317)
You sure about that? Chelsea gets paid more money, I'll grant you that.

They'll sell more tickets and get better TV ratings than Spurs will.


Selling more tickets makes more money for Chelsea, not UEFA. And I think the TV ratings would be close. Chelsea has a greater international following, but I believe their domestic support is substantially smaller than Tottenham's.

I am pretty sure the payments from UEFA are zero sum, so if Chelsea get more than Spurs would have, other teams will get less. So from that POV, UEFA directly doesn't care. And higher ratings mean better TV deals in the future. That's a pretty clear win for them...

The rules isn't there to punish the Spurs, it's to stop England from whining until they get five spots like last time, and that ####### entitlement is a huge red flag for most other federations.

Anyway, the reigning champ having another go at it is a more attractive proposition and an easier sell for the Champions League than whoever ends up fourth in whatever league entering.

Piffle, most of the whining came from the UEFA. The FA, and everyone not named LFC just gave a collective yawn.
   1146. Randy Jones Posted: May 24, 2012 at 12:09 PM (#4139318)
As to the drawing power of various teams, the reality is that in a number of countries (Italy being one), group stage matches against anything other than the likes of Man United and Barcelona are a hard sell. When we were in Milan, clubs like Arsenal, Ajax, Porto, Werder Bremen, etc played to stadia that were half full.


So Italians are the Atlanta Braves fans of soccer?
   1147. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 24, 2012 at 12:20 PM (#4139326)
I am pretty sure the payments from UEFA are zero sum, so if Chelsea get more than Spurs would have, other teams will get less.


I didn't know that, that's interesting. But I'm not saying they will get more, I'm saying they will generate more.

I'd hope that clubs wouldn't have trouble selling out their ground for a Champions League game, whether they're playing Chelsea or Tottenham.


Champions League games routinely do not sell out.
   1148. jmurph Posted: May 24, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4139330)
The Guardian has Spurs closing in on Vertonghen, and Liverpool closing in on Roberto Martinez.
   1149. Swedish Chef Posted: May 24, 2012 at 01:44 PM (#4139384)
Speaking of the Guardian:
PFA to make racist abuse a sacking offence for professional footballers

It's going to be harder to be both a bad player and racist, sadly not anything that affects the likes of Terry and Suarez. Barton better watch out, though.
   1150. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: May 24, 2012 at 05:56 PM (#4139590)
Speaking of the Guardian again: Premier League clubs lost £361m last year despite record £2.3bn income

Holy crap did Man City pay through the nose for that title.
   1151. puck Posted: May 24, 2012 at 07:03 PM (#4139640)
Does the "wage bill" include transfer fees, however they pro-rate them? Or just what we'd call salaries and bonuses?
   1152. Mattbert Posted: May 24, 2012 at 08:04 PM (#4139679)
The wage bill should not include transfer fees. Those are recorded separately on every team's accounts that I've ever seen.
   1153. ursus arctos Posted: May 25, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4140197)
   1154. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 25, 2012 at 03:36 PM (#4140217)
Suarez is an unrepentant victim.

His cross to bear.

Also, Blatter: It's all fun and games until Bayern get hurt.
   1155. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:06 PM (#4140276)
This game is a real let down as a study break. Wow, that's a lot of Bilbao fans though!
   1156. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4140277)
Oh man, he just ruined one of the best passes I've seen this year. BOOO!
   1157. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:20 PM (#4140279)

Also, Blatter: It's all fun and games until Bayern get hurt.


Doesn't everyone agree that PKs are a crummy way to settle important games? The problem is no one seems to have a better solution. TV probably puts the sword to the idea of a replay and "play 'til you drop" probably doesn't exactly make the players or referees too enthusiastic.
   1158. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4140283)
Bielsa is great. He looks like a guy who shows up at the library every day to read the newspaper.
   1159. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:29 PM (#4140285)
Doesn't everyone agree that PKs are a crummy way to settle important games?


Be that as it may, asking Franz Beckenbauer* of all people, to come up with an alternative days after Bayer took their first ever European PK loss in club history, looks really, really bad.

*who has been a PK defender in the past
   1160. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4140288)
I'm really looking forward to the US continuing to underwhelm against Scotland and Brazil this weekend.
   1161. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:46 PM (#4140291)
Wow, that's a lot of Bilbao fans though!


Glad they found the stadium this time...
   1162. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4140296)
I'm really looking forward to the US continuing to underwhelm against Scotland and Brazil this weekend.

Oh please, Scotland can make the Faroe Islands look good.
   1163. ursus arctos Posted: May 25, 2012 at 05:57 PM (#4140298)
Barca send Pep out in style, winning 3-0.

Messi gets his 73rd of the season.

Barca had more possession in every single game that Guardiola managed for them.

He also faced 55 different teams during that era, and beat every one of them, bar one.

A singular distinction to go with your European Cup, Chelsea.
   1164. frannyzoo Posted: May 25, 2012 at 06:00 PM (#4140300)
Well, Pep did beat Chelsea once technically.
   1165. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 25, 2012 at 06:35 PM (#4140325)
Oh please, Scotland can make the Faroe Islands look good.


Then they're an even match for us! This is a team that has scored 9 goals in 10 games under Klinsmann and will be without Dempsey and Altidore for that game. I originally was going to go but now I'm glad I'm not.
   1166. I am going to be Frank Posted: May 26, 2012 at 11:13 AM (#4140677)
So I was reading a Grantland article and it linked to an old Sun article. Its NSFW but if you read the article you'll see that Anton Ferdinand and Terry used to be drinking buddies!
   1167. frannyzoo Posted: May 26, 2012 at 12:37 PM (#4140718)
I'll be the first to admit I know nothing about "friendly" strategy so close to a major tournament, but right now Switzerland looks like world beaters v. Germany. And Germany is wearing green, which never makes sense to me.

The quality of play between Huddlesfield and Sheffield United has been less than stellar...that penalty kick included.
   1168. puck Posted: May 26, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4140773)
Holy cow. I can't believe that a) I watched the entire freaking League One promotion final, which neither Hudderfield Town or Sheffield United seemed to want to win, and b) the way the penalties went down. It's not often you see 11 rounds.
   1169. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 26, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4140779)
It's not often you see 11 rounds.

The 10 selected takers went 4/10. The guys forced into duty went 11/12 with only the second goalie missing...

Also, a consecutive run of 13 penalties converted is pretty impressive.
   1170. puck Posted: May 26, 2012 at 03:15 PM (#4140790)
Also, a consecutive run of 13 penalties converted is pretty impressive


I wondered if the keepers wore themselves out--there were some good kicks in there (and plenty of weak ones by the selected 10) but the keepers seemed to have less spring.

Penalties are always brutal for the loser, but especially so here--the keeper who missed the last kick managed to save 2 of the first 3 and was in pretty good position on the 3rd (which missed wide).
   1171. puck Posted: May 26, 2012 at 03:16 PM (#4140791)
And Germany is wearing green, which never makes sense to me.


Is it a political thing?

(I was joking there.)
   1172. The Clarence Thomas of BBTF (scott) Posted: May 26, 2012 at 04:24 PM (#4140815)
Its NSFW but if you read the article you'll see that Anton Ferdinand and Terry used to be drinking buddies!


I love the Sun. It's like humanities worst impulses put to print.

Also, boobs.
   1173. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 26, 2012 at 05:02 PM (#4140833)
And Germany is wearing green, which never makes sense to me.


It's a pretty lame reason, but if you want to know why: Here is the answer.
   1174. Flynn Posted: May 26, 2012 at 05:50 PM (#4140854)
No lamer than wearing black or red as they have in the past. And Germany look great in green.

I would be a bit skeptical of Van Gaal as director of football... I think he wants to coach again, and would only take the DoF job at a club he really loves, so Barcelona or Ajax. That's not to say he won't take the Liverpool job, but it will be for the paycheck and not a truly sincere desire to implement his vision. Which he may not be allowed to anyway, as van Gaal is dictatorial and Liverpool seems to chafe at somebody who isn't sentimental, which de Admiraal is certainly not.

De Boer, thankfully, looks to be far more of a van Gaal man than I thought he would be, but I really wish van Gaal had won his power struggle at Ajax. He's the better coach. Cruijff is a visionary, but he's been lazy ever since he had his heart attack.
   1175. Borussia, Du bist so wunderschön! (Mark Edward) Posted: May 26, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4140873)
So this is my guess for tonight's starting 11:
Boyd or Gomez
LanDo
Johnson - Bradley - Torres
Edu
Castillo - Bocanegra - Onyewu - Cherundolo
Howard

Ideally I'd start both Gomez & Boyd up front because I don't think either would be effective up front alone (kind of like Jozy). I'd take Castillo out & play 3 in the backfield, but I'm not sure if that's feasible with any combination of Onyewu/Bocanegra/Goodson/Parkhurst/Cameron/Castillo/Cherundolo.
   1176. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 07:59 PM (#4140897)
After 12 hours of studying financial mumbo jumbo I am ready for the mediocre soccer the US of A and Scotland are about to offer up. Will Alan Hutton do something great? Let's find out...

I am interested to see how this Edu, Bradley and Jones playing together thing will work and to see if Terrence Boyd is a player.
   1177. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4140898)
There's our first shot of the Tartan army armed with giant bottles of hooch!
   1178. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:14 PM (#4140904)
When journalists/media outlets first release the starting 11s, are the formations presented based on their opinion of the likely formation? Or when they are released, are they given something along the lines of, "4-3-3; x,x,x,x;y,y,y;z,z,z"? The reason I'm asking is because I find it very tough to believe Jose Torres is actually going to play as an attacking midfielder in this formation. I don't think I can recall ever seeing him play so far up the pitch. Then again, with all the central midfielders JK is starting, I'm not sure where exactly he's going to play.
   1179. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4140906)
Soccer by Ives has Torres as the left side of a 4-3-2-1


Oof. Not a great rendition of the National Anthem. Wow.

edit: MAKE IT STOP!
   1180. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:16 PM (#4140907)
NBC did a fine job of picking out the drunkest looking Scotland fans during the anthem.
   1181. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:17 PM (#4140908)
Oh my God, it's not Carl Lewis bad but this girl is waaaaay off key.
   1182. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4140909)
My freakin' ears!

EDIT: Shooty, that makes a bit more sense, but still seems a bit strange. IIRC Torres doesn't have much pace, and it's not like he's Charlie Adam with his range of passing, so playing him there seems to restrict him and the team.
   1183. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:18 PM (#4140911)
I wouldn't even #### her after hearing that. My god.
   1184. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:20 PM (#4140912)
Jose Torres is the guy I am excited about far in excess of his accomplishment. I really like what I see from him every time he plays.
   1185. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4140913)
Anthems: Flower of Scotland is bagpiped through the Florida heat, to the great enjoyment of an impressive Scottish contingent. The trusty Arlo White, commentating, is straight in to mention Bannockburn.

Then it's the US anthem. Which...

Let's just say the stage monitors seemed like they weren't working. Let's just say that...


Guardian MBM gettin Snar-kay!
   1186. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:21 PM (#4140915)
I like the us uniforms.
   1187. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:24 PM (#4140916)
Guardian MBM gettin Snar-kay!

Getting? Guardian MBM has one mode, which is full snark ahead.
   1188. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4140917)
Yeah!
   1189. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:25 PM (#4140918)
Getting? Guardian MBM has one mode, which is full snark ahead.

Not snarky. Snar-kay!

Wow Scotland...jeez. That was too easy.
   1190. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:27 PM (#4140919)
Wow Scotland...jeez. That was too easy.


That's just how we roll! (over)
   1191. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:28 PM (#4140920)
One of the great things about soccer is you can usually convince people who dont that any country is a great team. "no, really Scotland are remarkable, you would expect that from a British team."
   1192. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4140925)
For the love of Gregory's Girl and James Kelman, come on Scotland! Do something drunken and violent!
   1193. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:32 PM (#4140926)
Wow. What a strike from Bradley! Holy Toledo!
   1194. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:34 PM (#4140930)
That was a bomb.
   1195. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4140932)
Do something drunken and violent!

Well, their defending seems to look rather drunken, that's for sure...
   1196. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:35 PM (#4140933)
Ok, so Scotlamd aren't real good but I like that we are pressing and taking advantages of opportunities.
   1197. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:36 PM (#4140934)
Well, their defending seems to look rather drunken, that's for sure...

There was no defending that. That is literally the best goal Bradley will ever score in his life.

edit: There ya go Scotland!
   1198. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4140935)
That's some horrible defending, apparently "just stand there like a backboard" is not a good plan.
   1199. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:38 PM (#4140936)
And the US score another!
   1200. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 26, 2012 at 08:39 PM (#4140937)
Geoff Cameron is letting those rumors of a move to Europe get into his head, I guess.
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