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Wednesday, May 02, 2012

OT: Soccer Thread—May 2012

League all around will have their Champion decided! Bilbao or Atlético Madrid will reign over the Europa League! Chelsea tries to finally bring Roman a European Cup

And most important of all…West Ham drives for promotion!

RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 02, 2012 at 09:53 PM | 1485 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: soccer

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   301. Padgett Posted: May 09, 2012 at 12:48 PM (#4127391)
Am I reading this right? If Chelsea beat Bayern, they enter next year's Champions League in the group stage, fourth place drops to the Europa League, and England gets an additional Europa League spot for the team finishing seventh?
English winners of the UEFA Champions League who finish outside the top four places go through as Winners to the Group Stage along with the domestic champions, runners-up and third-placed team.

No extra domestic place can be gained by winning the UEFA Champions League, so the team finishing fourth drops into the UEFA Europa League. Then, the national association of the title-holder is entitled to one additional place in the UEFA Europa League.
Update: What's confusing is that the second part says that there's "[n]o extra domestic place" to be gained while in the very next sentence indicating that there can be an extra team entering the Europa League. This explanation comes under the "UEFA Champions League" heading, though, so maybe the "extra" place referenced is specifically about the Champions League and not European qualification in general, in which case the first part should read: "No extra domestic place [in the UEFA Champions League] can be gained by winning the UEFA Champions League . . ."
   302. Swedish Chef Posted: May 09, 2012 at 12:57 PM (#4127398)
they enter next year's Champions League in the group stage, fourth place drops to the Europa League, and England gets an additional Europa League spot for the team finishing seventh?

Except that the additional place is for the fifth team in the League, the FA and League Cup slots go to Chelsea and Liverpool respectively and there are just one slot for a Premier League team normally.
   303. PepTech Posted: May 09, 2012 at 01:09 PM (#4127410)
I was going to say "it would be much less confusing and better for everyone if Chelsea loses" but I would then live in fear of FPH tracking me down and ripping off my skull.
   304. Swedish Chef Posted: May 09, 2012 at 01:26 PM (#4127429)
the FA and League Cup slots go to Chelsea and Liverpool respectively and there are just one slot for a Premier League team normally.

That is just wrong.

Obviously Chelsea wouldn't claim that spot, Liverpool would take the FA cup slot, and the League Cup slot would go to the Premier League... and Chelsea wouldn't take that one either... :-)
   305. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 09, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4127432)
We should let the South Africa FA figure out these CL/Europa qualification permutations.
   306. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 09, 2012 at 01:35 PM (#4127439)
Clearly the solution is a playoff.
   307. Swedish Chef Posted: May 09, 2012 at 01:37 PM (#4127441)
Good thing that an EL spot is nothing more than a nice little trinket, otherwise Fulham fans might have had to root for Chelsea.
   308. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 09, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4127462)
Cardiff is definitely doing it wrong. Leeds wants to build a casino in their stadium.
   309. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 09, 2012 at 02:37 PM (#4127494)
Anyone in the NYC/NJ area want to see Red Bulls play Houston tonight? I've just been given some free Sky Box tickets that include access to the VIP lounge.
   310. ursus arctos Posted: May 09, 2012 at 02:51 PM (#4127511)
Aupa Athletic!
   311. Flynn Posted: May 09, 2012 at 03:32 PM (#4127548)
Flynn -- are you stateside? I thought you were not, but your talk of the Expos has me wondering. The reason I ask is I'm wondering how you catch so many Eredivisie games. Are there any non-ESPN3 legal streams out there? I just gave a quick look at that aforementioned Eredivisie Live page, but I'm unsure if someone in the US can make purchases there.


Eredivisie.livesport.tv. As far as I can tell it's available in the US, and they let me pay with a US credit card.

Why don't the Dutch play hockey? They love skating and they love football, you smash the two together and you have hockey.

Speaking of, did the Elfstedentocht ever happen this year?


No, the ice just wasn't thick enough in certain spots, which was heartbreaking.

The reason they don't play hockey is skating is more of a pastime than a sport, and hence they don't really have many ice rinks that aren't speed skating ovals. You're not the first person to make the connection, though.
   312. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 09, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4127564)
Blackpool with a 1-0 lead over Birmingham City at the break, 2-0 on aggregate. Fingers crossed. With Sheffield Wednesday already promoted to the Championship, I'd love to see Blackpool go up to the Premier League so they don't have to play each other...
   313. ursus arctos Posted: May 09, 2012 at 04:02 PM (#4127580)
Now 2-0
   314. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: May 09, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4127586)
With Sheffield Wednesday already promoted to the Championship, I'd love to see Blackpool go up to the Premier League so they don't have to play each other...
Booo! Boooo!
   315. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 09, 2012 at 04:21 PM (#4127597)
2-2. Damn!
   316. ursus arctos Posted: May 09, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4127617)
Blackpool hold out and are on their way to Wembley.
   317. Flynn Posted: May 09, 2012 at 04:42 PM (#4127618)
My heart broke a little bit at the sight of the Athletic players and supporters crying at full-time. Stupid Atleti.
   318. vortex of dissipation Posted: May 09, 2012 at 04:49 PM (#4127625)
Blackpool hold out and are on their way to Wembley.


Whew!
   319. ursus arctos Posted: May 09, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4127666)
At least Athletic are sure to get another crack next season, given their qualification for the Copa del Rey final against Barcelona.
   320. Juan V Posted: May 09, 2012 at 10:50 PM (#4127925)
So, I guess you shouldn't sign Falcao if your team has Champions League aspirations.
   321. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 08:43 AM (#4128044)
   322. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 08:51 AM (#4128046)
Anyone have any insight on how this mess in Serie B is going to play out? I can't even find a list of the 22 teams going on trial. Is it pointless to even look at the table as the courts are going to decide promotion and relegation this year?
   323. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 08:57 AM (#4128048)
The English version of Groundhog Day

He's a legend, but I think it's over. Hard to believe he's only 31.
   324. Mattbert Posted: May 10, 2012 at 09:05 AM (#4128058)
He's a legend, but I think it's over. Hard to believe he's only 31.

He looked pretty well cooked in his last few appearances this year. It's sad, but I think you're right. I can't construct much of a justification for offering him a new deal at this point, especially if the rumors about Vertonghen reciprocating Spurs' interest have substance and aren't just his way of telling United and Arsenal to #### or get off the pot.
   325. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 09:16 AM (#4128064)
especially if the rumors about Vertonghen reciprocating Spurs' interest have substance

I think they're true, but when was the last time Levy struck early in the market? Supposedly Vertonghen is visiting the training facilities this week and I hope they just knock this out quickly. Then maybe Vertonghen gets on the phone to his Belgian buddy Eden Hazard...Naw, that's just greedy. Vertonghen is fine and it's nice to hear a player say he WANTS to play for Spurs.
   326. Mattbert Posted: May 10, 2012 at 09:37 AM (#4128066)
I think they're true, but when was the last time Levy struck early in the market?

Brad Friedel is the most recent one I can think of. Of the current crop of stars, I definitely remember Bale and Modric were early signings. I believe Luka actually agreed terms before the window even opened.

And our old friend David Bentley, of course.

Supposedly Vertonghen is visiting the training facilities this week and I hope they just knock this out quickly. Then maybe Vertonghen gets on the phone to his Belgian buddy Eden Hazard...Naw, that's just greedy. Vertonghen is fine and it's nice to hear a player say he WANTS to play for Spurs.

Jeez, I sure hope so. He's exactly what the club needs, and he's still young. It will be nice to have some quality back there in Kaboul, Caulker, and hopefully Vertonghen that can conceivably provide a defensive anchor for many seasons to come. Squeezing the last life out of the likes of Ledley, Woodgate, and Gallas has been stressful.
   327. Mattbert Posted: May 10, 2012 at 09:38 AM (#4128067)
Also, I would like some chippy journo to show this study to Harry and then ask him about squad rotation again.
   328. zack Posted: May 10, 2012 at 09:57 AM (#4128077)
That's an awful graphic. Just make it a damn table!
   329. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:11 AM (#4128083)
Anyone have any insight on how this mess in Serie B is going to play out? I can't even find a list of the 22 teams going on trial.


From the article I linked to:

Atalanta, Novara, Siena, AlbinoLeffe, Ancona, Ascoli, Avesa, Cremonese, Empoli, Frosinone, Grosseto, Livorno, Modena, Monza, Padova, Pescara, Piacenza, Ravenna, Reggina, Rimini, Sampdoria and Spezia.
   330. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:25 AM (#4128095)
Atalanta, Novara, Siena, AlbinoLeffe, Ancona, Ascoli, Avesa, Cremonese, Empoli, Frosinone, Grosseto, Livorno, Modena, Monza, Padova, Pescara, Piacenza, Ravenna, Reggina, Rimini, Sampdoria and Spezia.

Whew! No Torino! Sampdoria's hard times continue.
   331. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4128101)
   332. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:29 AM (#4128104)
Multi-sport first team salary data from Sporting Intelligence.

I wouldn't consider it gospel for non-MLS soccer teams, but it gives you some idea of relative payrolls. 7 of the top 10 are soccer teams.

The cricket numbers are weird, because they have extrapolated full year amounts from the six week Indian Premier League season.
   333. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4128125)
Is there a generally accepted wisdom on signings around a major tournament like the Euros? Is it better to sign a player before he breaks out or better to make sure he doesn't get injured?
   334. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:45 AM (#4128131)
The consensus wisdom is that clubs overpay significantly for players that have strong tournaments.

I haven't seen any quantitative analysis of this phenomenon, but the anecdotal evidence is strong.

On the Italian stuff, one shouldn't assume that all of the clubs that are having hearings will end up with points deductions. That hasn't been the case in previous investigations, and some of the named clubs' involvement in the shenanigans appears to be quite marginal.
   335. Randy Jones Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4128138)
So when they say "first team" in that article, what does that mean? Are they talking the entire active roster, so the 25-man for MLB teams, or something else? I'd also be interested to see the total payroll as well as average. The Lakers are 5th in average, but with only a 15-man roster.
   336. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4128146)
That's one of my major methodological questions as well, but I'm not willing to pay ten quid to have it answered.

It can't be rosters, because the NBA average is over USD 3 million a year, and the NFL numbers are also very high. From a baseball perspective, I've love to know how they deal with pitchers.
   337. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4128154)
On the Italian stuff, one shouldn't assume that all of the clubs that are having hearings will end up with points deductions.

I'm just relieved Torino isn't caught up in this (as far as we know). I'm looking forward to the game Saturday against Pescara and want it to mean something. The Immovable Object against the Unstoppable Force. Be there!
   338. zack Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:14 AM (#4128163)
The list linked in #334 is the same one Mattbert linked, and I used for those charts (the charts linked here being the inspiration), just re-published by ESPN (except only in $USD and includes total payroll). Unfortunately the full dataset is for-pay (and possibly off-line), as is the detailed report.

#335, they never define it, but that's my guess. It has the White Sox at $96.9mil, COT's has their 25-man at $97.6. The Blackhaws are at $69.3, which is some combination of their 23-man by my estimation.

It can't be rosters, because the NBA average is over USD 3 million a year, and the NFL numbers are also very high


Not sure I follow, isn't NBA average salary like $5million? They're usually the highest paid because the rosters are so small.
   339. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4128172)
I didn't think that they were that high, but I really don't pay attention to basketball. Are the Steelers really paying USD 90 million in salaries?
   340. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:26 AM (#4128179)
   341. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4128180)
   342. Randy Jones Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:31 AM (#4128183)
Are the Steelers really paying USD 90 million in salaries?


No. NFL salary cap is set at $120.6M for next year and the latest info I could find says the Steelers have $4.3M in cap space so they should be at ~$116M in salary right now.

EDIT: That cap space number was pre-draft though(from April 21st). It's possible they have made cuts and not signed their picks yet, so that $90M could be accurate, just misleading.
   343. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4128186)
“It was intended to reach settlements with the principal historic creditors, and for Tan Sri Vincent Tan to then transfer the debts currently due to him into equity and drive revenues through an aggressive marketing and commercialisation plan.

“This would as a result allow initial and further investment for team strengthening.

“However we have no desire to cause offence, or for people to think we have no respect for the club or its history as it would appear has been suggested in various quarters - including by local assembly members.

“We would have hoped that the significant investment made to date would have already demonstrated our good faith in that regard.

“Indeed, we are disappointed that anybody would think the contrary. In the light of the vociferous opposition by a number of the fans to the proposals being considered, as expressed directly to our local management and through various media and other outlets, we will not proceed with the proposed change of colour and logo and the team will continue to play in blue at home for the next season with the current badge.

We will now reassess in conjunction with the board of the club the future strategy and the further ongoing investment necessary to allow the club to continue to trade. This may include looking for new and additional partners and investors.


The emphasis is mine. It seems like a nice reminder that he has the club by the balls. Honestly, though, how much commercial appeal for Cardiff City is there in Asia?




   344. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4128188)
That's the crux of the whole debacle.

The thought that simply putting Cardiff in red shirts with a dragon on them would make them as popular in Asia as Man United or Liverpool is ludicrous.
   345. zack Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4128193)
Well the ESPN version has the total payroll for the Steelers at $149...

USAToday (the usual source for NA leagues) only has the NFL through 2009-10 for some reason, and the range then was $81-$138.

Here's the implied average roster size (total payroll / AAP) for each league from the ESPN page:

AFL               40
Bundes
.           29
CFL               42
EPL               25
La Liga           25
MLB               29
MLS               28
NBA               14
NFL               51
NHL               25
NPB               24
Serie A           25
SPL               25 


Assuming the annual salary is annualized for some leagues, than this wouldn't work out correctly (and I excluded the IPL since it was definitely annualized. That was
3). The only leagues I know off-hand are the NHL and MLB, which should be 23 and 25, respectively.

No. NFL salary cap is set at $120.6M for next year and the latest info I could find says the Steelers have $4.3M in cap space so they should be at ~$116M in salary right now.


But what is the NFL cap number? This has several NHL teams over the cap, but that's because this is based on salary, and cap number is AAV.
   346. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:42 AM (#4128195)
No. NFL salary cap is set at $120.6M for next year and the latest info I could find says the Steelers have $4.3M in cap space so they should be at ~$116M in salary right now.


Not necessarily, that $116M includes pro-rated signing bonuses, dead cap space, etc. Cap hit does not equal money paid.
   347. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4128223)
That's interesting.

For soccer, they appear to be using the 25-man rosters for European competition, while many clubs carry 30+ players on their domestic roster. The Bundesliga number is also weird; I can't see a basis for using a different methodology for that league.

CFL rosters are indeed 42 for any given game (46 total).
   348. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 10, 2012 at 12:31 PM (#4128245)
Also, in the NFL 2010 (I think) was an uncapped year, because of the expiring CBA. So any figures that include data from that year are probably going to be somewhat higher than usual.
   349. CWS Keith plans to boo your show at the Apollo Posted: May 10, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4128261)
Enrique quits Roma. I'll give him props on his match-day attire, though. That is one sharp-dressed man.
   350. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 10, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4128262)
Yes, 2010 was uncapped--and unfloored. A handful of teams spent below the floor.
   351. Obi One Kenobi Nil Posted: May 10, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4128269)
Steve Kean has been releasing some wonderful statements today about how wonderful things are for Blackburn now they have been relegated. It was also doubly amusing that in the background of his office you could see he had pinned a paper darboard over the top of the club crest...
   352. ursus arctos Posted: May 10, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4128270)
   353. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4128273)
Ha! Sandro is freakin great. Levy better tell the Italian boys to #### off when they come calling for him.
   354. Mattbert Posted: May 10, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4128274)
Haha, I saw that earlier ursus. He is magnificent.

Have you guys seen his kung-fu routine in the dressing room?
   355. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 10, 2012 at 01:20 PM (#4128279)
Have you guys seen his kung-fu routine in the dressing room?

Yep. If he hurts himself doing that I'm going to cry, though.
   356. Richard Posted: May 10, 2012 at 11:38 PM (#4128941)
The emphasis is mine. It seems like a nice reminder that he has the club by the balls. Honestly, though, how much commercial appeal for Cardiff City is there in Asia?

To be fair to Tan, whilst the red shirt idea was a daft one, he came in and made Cardiff's money troubles - including winding up petitions - go away. He has the club by the balls, yes, but the alternative was adminstration or liquidation.

The thought that simply putting Cardiff in red shirts with a dragon on them would make them as popular in Asia as Man United or Liverpool is ludicrous.

Quite. To give another example, Leicester City are owned by Thai interests. Their shirt is on sale in Bangkok airport and in Bangkok itself, but nobody is buying. To be popular in Asia, you have to win a lot.
   357. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:05 AM (#4129047)
Quite. To give another example, Leicester City are owned by Thai interests. Their shirt is on sale in Bangkok airport and in Bangkok itself, but nobody is buying. To be popular in Asia, you have to win a lot.


It's like they don't know the most basic rules: Don't start a PR war in Asia...
   358. Randy Jones Posted: May 11, 2012 at 09:19 AM (#4129060)
To be popular in Asia, you have to win a lot.


While this is probably true, I'd bet that a lesser team could make headway in individual Asian countries by buying a decent player from that country and playing some exhibition games there in the summer. Of course, this would probably be limited to South Korea and Japan as I am unaware of any other east Asian countries that produce top flight players.
   359. ursus arctos Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:06 AM (#4129171)
There is evidence for that phenomenon.

For example, Lee Chung-Yong has significantly increased Bolton's profile in South Korean, and while Hidetoshi Nakata was playing in Italy, he would engender Ichiro-style levels of fascination (live broadcasts, organised tours from Japan, etc.) no matter how poorly the club he was at was doing.
   360. Smyly Smile (Walewander) Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4129190)

When Shinawatra (yes, being owned by oil-rich oligarchs is actually a moral step UP for us City fans) was at Eastlands he brought in a couple players from the Thai national squad, presumably with the above plan in mind (we also played preseason tournaments in Thailand - IIRC Joey Barton assaulted a teenage fan at one), but they were miles off the pace.

EDIT: I imagine City is now much more popular in Thailand (and Asia generally) than we were 5-6 years ago, simply because we are now packed with famous players and win lots of games.
   361. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:21 AM (#4129193)
Hey, Wale. Long time no see. Good to have you back.
   362. Smyly Smile (Walewander) Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4129206)
Thanks! Hope you're well, and not too bummed about Spurs's second half struggles. Still in with a shout for the CL, correct?
   363. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:34 AM (#4129208)
The first really world class Chinese player is going to be a very wealthy man, I think.
   364. Smyly Smile (Walewander) Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:38 AM (#4129212)

City had a Chinese player a few years ago. He was a useful, versatile player who seemed popular with the fans, but he was several leagues away from "world class", as was most of the side then. I have no idea if he made us any more popular in China.

It still blows my mind that I get to watch Aguero, Silva, Toure, and Kompany, where once I watched Macken, Sibierski, Bosvelt, and Ben Thatcher.
   365. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4129224)
Hope you're well, and not too bummed about Spurs's second half struggles. Still in with a shout for the CL, correct?

I'm just fine. Spurs, not so much. They are in the driver's seat for 4th spot, but they were in the driver's seat to take over 3rd last week and muffed it. We'll see. It looks like Dempsey will miss the game for Fulham, which is a boost for Tottenham. Right now, the biggest headache for Harry is who to play at fullback. Benny is injured and Rose is suspended.

It's too bad the Spurs Swoon has made this last game critical. If they'd coasted to third like they should have, this would be a nice lighthearted run about the pitch with the fans welcoming Martin Jol back to the Lane for the first time. Instead it's going to be stressful. Such is Spurs.
   366. Smyly Smile (Walewander) Posted: May 11, 2012 at 11:47 AM (#4129227)
If Spurs don't make the CL, is Harry out on a limb, or is he still pretty safe with the board? (I know fans are pretty split about him)

Home to Fulham w/o Dempsey, you SHOULD have enough to get it done, just as City SHOULD be able to beat QPR at home, but I understand your apprehension. I'm fully expecting either Joey Barton, or worse yet, SWP, to score a 93rd minute winner Sunday.
   367. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4129253)
If Spurs don't make the CL, is Harry out on a limb, or is he still pretty safe with the board? (I know fans are pretty split about him)

Honestly, I have no idea. If they fail to finish top four, I think the split within the fanbase will shift to the OUT end of the spectrum. They had a huge lead for third not too long ago but were, until Chelsea lost to Liverpool, in danger of finishing as low as sixth. That will prompt some questions, regardless of where they end up finishing. The questions will obviously be more intense if they're looking ahead to the Europa League instead of the Champions League again next season.

If I had to guess, I'll bet Harry stays no matter what. Even if Levy wants to get rid of him, I think he'll just ride it out and let Harry's contract expire; there's only one year left on his current deal.
   368. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4129265)
The Brazil roster for the friendly against U.S. I had completely forgotten Spurs signed Bruno Uvini. I have no idea how he made this squad. I'm assuming they just want to give Ramires a break?

GOALKEEPERS: Jefferson (Botafogo), Neto (Fiorentina), Rafael (Santos)

DEFENDERS: Dani Alves (Barcelona), Danilo (Porto), Juan (Inter Milan), David Luiz (Chelsea), Marcelo (Real Madrid), Alex Sandro (Porto), Thiago Silva (AC Milan), Bruno Uvini (Tottenham)

MIDFIELDERS: Casemiro (Sao Paulo), Paulo Henrique Ganso (Santos), Giuliano (Dnipro), Lucas (Sao Paulo), Wellington Nem (Fluminense), Oscar (Internacional), Romulo (Vasco de Gama), Sandro (Tottenham)

FORWARDS: Leandro Damiao (Internacional), Hulk (Porto), Neymar (Santos), Alexandre Pato (AC Milan)
   369. Smyly Smile (Walewander) Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4129266)
It seems risky to let him go into next year as a possible lame duck...I was going to say you don't want him spending money if he might not be around, but from my understanding of Spurs' setup Harry has less control over acquisitions than most top managers in England.
   370. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4129274)
Any thoughts on Wolves going international for their manager?
   371. Smyly Smile (Walewander) Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4129277)
Man, Brazil ain't what it used to be.
   372. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:30 PM (#4129283)
Man, Brazil ain't what it used to be.

Still pretty freakin good. I see what you're saying, though. When was the last time Brazil went through a multi-year stretch with no Best Player In The World candidate? Of those guys, only Alves would make a World Best 11 right now, no? Sandro, of course, is in my heart's Best 11...

edit: Of course, when Neymar gets to Europe he might start making his case for being on the Best player shortlist. I pray, PRAY, he doesn't go to Chelsea because he is so, so good. Go to Spain, Neymar, go to Spain. I don't want you making Tottenham and Torino defenders look stupid.
   373. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4129288)
Any thoughts on Wolves going international for their manager?

I don't know anything about the guy other than his last team (Koln) just got relegated. Flippin' heck!
   374. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:35 PM (#4129290)
Of course, when Neymar gets to Europe he might start making his case for being on the Best player shortlist. I pray, PRAY, he doesn't go to Chelsea because he is so, so good. Go to Spain, Neymar, go to Spain. I don't want you making Tottenham and Torino defenders look stupid.


Blegh. I don't need to see the gruesome twosome get any more loaded.
   375. ursus arctos Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:36 PM (#4129292)
I was surprised by Wolves' appointment.

Solbakken did wonders at Copenhagen, but flopped badly at Koln, where he tried to impose an advanced tactical system on a team that wasn't 'aving it. I have no reason to believe that he knows anything about the Championship, and is unlikely to have the kind of players he wants/needs or the money to sign new ones. There is a some possibility that he could do a Brendan Rodgers, but that would require significant time, and the Wolves support has a very short time horizon.
   376. FancyPantsHandle glistening with foreign substance Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4129303)
Knowing virtually nothing about Danish football, I sort of just assumed Copenhaged won the league every year by default...
   377. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:43 PM (#4129304)
Blegh. I don't need to see the gruesome twosome get any more loaded.

He's not playing for Spurs, Freiburg or Torino and I have no rooting interests in Spain. I want him contained where he can do me the least harm.
   378. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4129308)
Solbakken did wonders at Copenhagen, but flopped badly at Koln, where he tried to impose an advanced tactical system on a team that wasn't 'aving it. I have no reason to believe that he knows anything about the Championship, and is unlikely to have the kind of players he wants/needs or the money to sign new ones. There is a some possibility that he could do a Brendan Rodgers, but that would require significant time, and the Wolves support has a very short time horizon.

It's interesting they didn't go the retread route and instead are going to attempt their version of the AVB project in the Championship. It'll fascinating to keep an eye on how it goes next year.
   379. ursus arctos Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4129310)
Copenhagen were the result of a 1992 merger between a couple of underperforming clubs from the capital. The traditional powers in the country in the professional era had been suburban or provincial teams like Brondby, Lyngby and Vejle.
   380. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4129311)
Also, speaking of Neymar...anyone see what Santos did last night in the Copa? Sheesh. In the big game of the night Fluminense got past Inter despite another goal from Leandro Permanent Spurs Transfer Target Damiao. He supposedly wants to go to Juventus now, BTW, dampening my enthusiasm for him...
   381. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 12:52 PM (#4129312)
It seems risky to let him go into next year as a possible lame duck...I was going to say you don't want him spending money if he might not be around, but from my understanding of Spurs' setup Harry has less control over acquisitions than most top managers in England.

I'm not privy to the White Hart Lane kremlinology, but if you look at Tottenham's spend it seems like Levy's been treating Harry like a lame duck for a little while already. Harry got a big kitty to spend when he first arrived and Spurs were nominally relegation candidates. He bought Palacios and Cudicini (free) and re-signed Defoe, Keane, and Chimbonda. The following summer he bought Crouch, Kranjcar, and Bassong.

Since then, he hasn't been allowed to spend much. The only significant incoming transfers since 2009 have been van der Vaart (relatively inexpensive and brokered entirely by Levy at the 11th hour), Sandro (another Levy deal, from what's been reported), Kaboul, the Kyles (Walker and Naughton), and Scotty Parker Party Starter. The other moves have been loans, freebies, and bargains around the margins: Gudjohnsen, Gallas, Adebayor, Friedel, Pienaar, Saha, Nelsen, Falque, Coulibaly, Pletikosa, and so forth. Other than the Adebayor loan, no big splashes there.

If you had to try to read the tea leaves in that record...
   382. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4129331)
If you had to try to read the tea leaves in that record...

It'll be interesting to see what happens if they qualify for the CL. They should have a decent transfer kitty after not spending the last 2 windows while selling a decent # of players. This is also the summer I expect them to lose one of Bale or Modric or both and, if that happens, they will have a lot of cash to spend. I will be refreshing the ESPN transfer rumor page often.
   383. Smyly Smile (Walewander) Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:04 PM (#4129333)
Thanks, that is pretty interesting. I think that record, coupled with the recent indicators, suggest it might be life without Harry if he doesn't bring in that CL spot.
   384. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:21 PM (#4129356)
This is also the summer I expect them to lose one of Bale or Modric or both and, if that happens, they will have a lot of cash to spend.


If they make the Champions League I'd be surprised to see them lose both. I don't know how you replace both guys and still compete in multiple competitions. At the very least I would think they would wait until they won/lost their qualifier (assuming they finish fourth) before making a decision on either guy. If they win then they should have the money to keep one or both. If they lose and are out then it probably makes some sense to sell them for what would certainly be big money.
   385. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4129360)
If they screw up and finish 5th, I think it's about 50/50 whether Harry gets sacked or Levy just lets him dangle for another year. It may be that his hand is forced if there's no CL on offer next term and, as Shooty says, Bale and/or Modric take a hike. In that case, it might be wise to cut bait with Harry and get started on the rebuilding with a young up-and-comer at the helm like Roberto Martinez, Paul Lambert, or Brendan Rodgers.

Heck, that might even happen if Spurs do get a CL spot, especially if it's only fourth. Seems hard to believe, but Modric will turn 27 in the fall. He's probably thinking he's not got that much time left to win things and pull down the big money. I expect Bale to stay because he's still just a kid, but I'm starting to resign myself to the idea that, more likely than not, Sunday is going to be Modric's last game in a Spurs shirt. I can only see him staying if Arsenal slips up and Tottenham nips back into third place and a guaranteed spot in the group stage.
   386. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:31 PM (#4129366)
If they make the Champions League I'd be surprised to see them lose both.

We'll see. They're under contract but you can only fight off the demands of the player so long. If Barca or Juve come for Bale or if Man U or Chelsea come for Modric, we'll see. Forcing Modric to stay last year seems like an act that went against the grain. Tottenham are a second-tier team to the mega bastard clubs so I try to be realistic about these things the same way Ajax fans have to be realistic about keeping Vertonghen or Van der Wiel even though they have CL next year or even Borussia Dortmund leak players every summer. All I ask is they keep Sandro and VDV.

Speaking of former Borussia Dortmund players, what's with Nuri Sahin? Is he another young player eaten by the voracious Real Madrid monster?
   387. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4129368)
but I'm starting to resign myself to the idea that, more likely than not, Sunday is going to be Modric's last game in a Spurs shirt.

We were kind of lucky to get this season out of him. He'll always be one of my favorites even after he leaves, though it will sting seeing him playing for Chelsea or Man U.
   388. Mefisto Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4129374)
As I understand it, Man Utd. is unlikely to go after Modric. They have an age policy for transfers, and he's past it. That was the hangup with Sneijder too.

Obviously, policies like that can change and Utd have a real weakness in central midfield, but I think Chelsea are your bigger worry.

Anybody else see the rumors that Michael Bradley will end up at Roma or Inter?
   389. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:42 PM (#4129375)
If Modric goes, it should be to Barca. He is the perfect heir apparent to Xavi, and he deserves to play with the caliber of teammates he'll find there. Too often he's thinking a move or two farther ahead than the rest of the guys on the field with him at Tottenham; that won't be the case at Barca.
   390. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4129383)
Anybody else see the rumors that Michael Bradley will end up at Roma or Inter?

I've heard them, but I don't believe them despite how well he's played because of the limits on non-EU players in Italy. I think the Roma link is because of the American ownership there and the Inter rumors started because he had a particularly good game against Inter. I've seen only 2 or 3 Chievo games this year, but he stands out as one of their best players. Aston Villa really dropped the ball with Bradley, no? I mean, he fell into their laps!

If Modric goes, it should be to Barca. He is the perfect heir apparent to Xavi, and he deserves to play with the caliber of teammates he'll find there. Too often he's thinking a move or two farther ahead than the rest of the guys on the field with him at Tottenham; that won't be the case at Barca.

Agreed, but I have never heard the whisper of a link to Barca for Modric. He'd be great for Milan, too, with Seedorf nearing the end.
   391. Mattbert Posted: May 11, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4129395)
He'd be great for Milan, too, with Seedorf nearing the end.

That is a good point. Modric would destroy Serie A. Absolutely destroy it.
   392. Shooty is in the Trust Tree Posted: May 11, 2012 at 02:02 PM (#4129402)
OK gents. I'm signing off but I'm still planning on Kinsale's Sunday for SURVIVAL SUNDAY!!!!! even though it's just Bolton and QPR worrying about relegation. Title deciders, champions league places up for grabs and a little relegation sub plot for good measure, plus the Everton and Liverpool table jockeying.
   393. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 11, 2012 at 02:14 PM (#4129417)
I'd like to see Bradley stay at Chievo. He's in a good situation there, why mess with it? Roma doesn't offer UEFA competition so he gains little moving there and Inter's a mess, that could be a disaster.
   394. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: May 11, 2012 at 02:21 PM (#4129421)
Bradley to Inter scares me in the way Dempsey to Arsenal or a similar side would. I love these guys playing every week in the top leagues and I fear that these guys will have drastically reduced playing time with a move to a big club.
   395. Swedish Chef Posted: May 11, 2012 at 02:22 PM (#4129423)
Copenhagen were the result of a 1992 merger between a couple of underperforming clubs from the capital. The traditional powers in the country in the professional era had been suburban or provincial teams like Brondby, Lyngby and Vejle.

The thing that made FCK is that they bought the Danish national stadium for a pittance (less than 20 million dollars) back in the day. Now they have an earning power that is ridiculous compared to the other teams in the league, Bröndby is the closest challenger in financial terms and have about half of FCK's revenue. And they will probably remain as the only serious rival as everything in Denmark is heavily concentrated around Copenhagen. You can't possibly build a rival in the provinces, and you can in no way match the stadium that FCK owns if you play in Copenhagen (unless you own Bröndby Stadion, and even that is a far less attractive venue for other events than football).
   396. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 11, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4129427)
Bradley to Inter scares me in the way Dempsey to Arsenal or a similar side would. I love these guys playing every week in the top leagues and I fear that these guys will have drastically reduced playing time with a move to a big club.


Altidore at Villareal and Oneywu at Milan come to mind. Now they're flourishing at non-big clubs.
   397. Mefisto Posted: May 11, 2012 at 03:18 PM (#4129462)
A big ditto to 393 and 396. How about Clint stays at Fulham and we move Bradley there to replace an aging Danny Murphy?
   398. puck Posted: May 11, 2012 at 04:30 PM (#4129529)
Colorado's one of those MLS teams that hasn't gotten in on the trend of hosting friendlies (last were America in '09 and Everton on '08). But they just announced Swansea is coming in July--I very much like it. Columbus had recently announced Stoke and Stoke was said to be looking for other games so that was a rumor. That would have been fun, too, but Swansea will be fun. It's the pre-season and at altitude so they probably won't play that hard, but if they did, I wonder if Colorado would ever see the ball.
   399. DA Baracus is gritty and hits with RISP Posted: May 11, 2012 at 05:13 PM (#4129567)
How about Clint stays at Fulham and we move Bradley there to replace an aging Danny Murphy?


That I can get behind. Fulhamerica 2.0! Also bring in Stuart Holden when Bolton needs to offload his contract. Hell I'll even take Maurice Edu when Rangers need to offload his too.
   400. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 11, 2012 at 05:26 PM (#4129582)
Bradley to Inter scares me in the way Dempsey to Arsenal or a similar side would.
There's a distinction to be made, here, though. I haven't heard anything about Bradley having a particularly special season at Chievo. Clint Dempsey is the #4 scorer in the Premier League. He's had an absolutely world-class season. I don't know if he's a world-class player, but I definitely saw him play some world-class games. He's earned a chance to compete at the very highest level, and it's not unreasonable to be optimistic that he can do it.
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