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1. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: October 29, 2007 at 05:53 PM (#2598932)Girardi is the safe choice, and it's not like he has hundreds of your arms to blow out. Just 2. And I don't really buy that he killed those Marlin arms either.
Well, at least ARod opted out.
I don't think so. Even though Mattingly is popular, I haven't heard anything about Rivera or Posada not liking Girardi to the point of refusing to play for him.
Wow, whatta source. Whatta scoop. Ya think?
You can tell Hank didn't say this. The word 'privilege' is missing.
The "privilege" should be assumed. The ghost of Miller Huggins told this to Hank personally.
Me either...directly. But Boras was quoted today saying something to the effect of A-Rod's conversations with some of his Yankee teammates factored into his concerns about the future of the team being grave enough to cause him to opt out.
As I was reading it, the names Rivera-Posada-Pettitte immediately came to mind.
Another unnamed source has told ESPN that Mattingly won't come back, fwiw.
I thought Mattingly would have been the safe choice because the fans would have given him time and the veteran players would have been the most comfortable with him. I think Pena would have been a decent enough stopgap, pre-made short term scapegoat that could be fired after one year if necessary and wouldn't have really caused much turmoil because the veteran players would have been comfortable enough with him. I actually think Girardi has the biggest chance to implode and really cause havoc. Should be interesting.
Posada not coming back would be shocking and, if it happens, what the hell is Plan B for the Yankees?
Where were you guys this weekend when I was saying that I thought Girardi was a bad choice and that he seemed like someone the players might dislike? I was getting hammered all day. Mostly because I made fun of his ridiculous haircut--though I still think the haircut has a kind of ########### rhetoric to it.
Of course, Graziano was also the guy that said that Torre had agreed to a new contract...
Anything more than alleged hearsay here? Posada was always complimentary toward Girardi when they played together. I'd be surprised if Girardi's hiring is an obstacle to re-siging anyone, and if it was you'd think that would have factored into the hiring decision.
A player-manager, of course.
Of course, if that was Plan B, I guess they could have just kept Torre.
Then again, the New York teams could just switch catchers. Works for me.
That's not funny.
Although he seems like an exceptionally nice guy, it also certainly seemed to me that his main value to the Yankees was that he was Don Mattingly and they were the Yankees.
ROFL. Not only have the deranged Steinbrenners pushed a decent and highly popular manager out the door for no good reason, they've made a bizarre managerial decision and also managed to aliente Donnie Baseball, another well-liked and respected Yankee.
Great job there guys! I foresee more frustration and heartburn for this organization for years to come.
I wonder if Torre would hire him if he goes somewhere else.
It'll be a Molina-fest!
Yogi.
You got that insurance?
***
I don't have anything to add on the Graziano mention of Girardi/Posada. I just keep seeing it repeated as I page through the sports section. I have not seen anything about it elsewhere.
Great job there guys! I foresee more frustration and heartburn for this organization for years to come.
You do realize that regardless of who was in charge Mattingly, a man with no managerial experience whatsoever and who's post-manager candidacy interview was breathtakingly painful, was going to leave as long as he didn't get the managers job...don't you?
Hiring Girardi is "bizarre"? You can question it, certainly, but it's hardly bizarre to hire a former manager of the year over a guy with zero managerial experience at any level. I have my questions about whether Girardi is right for the Yankees, but part of me kind of admires anyone who can't get along with the clowns who run the Marlins.
If I were running a major league club, I can guarantee you that I would never put a guy in charge of the team who hadn't ever managed. Don Mattingly would never even have gotten an interview. Go manage in the minors. Go manage in the winter leagues. Someplace. Show me that you can run a team, and show me how you'd do it, before I put you in charge of the product that is the end result of all the work, and all the money, put in by this organization.
How is signing the guy with managerial experience over the guy whose sole qualification seems to be "I was a Yankee!" a "bizarre managerial decision?"
that, and, as others have pointed out in previous threads, Girardi's handling of the Marlins pitchers in 2006 wasn't particularly egregious.
Pitch count-wise its nothing out of the ordinary, perhaps even somewhat conservative. The biggest mark against him, in my opinion, was reports of him sending Josh Johnson back to the mound after a long rain delay. Hopefully Joe regrets doing that and will never do it again.
Mattingly may have been willing to do this, but also may have been told that he did not need to do so when he rejoined the club to be its hitting coach or took over as its bench manager. I don't know that, of course. But, if you felt that his lack of managerial experience would be held against him, you should have told him in advance. Holding that against him now would be quite hypocritical, especially given that the owner and GM have not changed.
yeah, that's a poor decision. On the other hand, YES was rebroadcasting David Cone's perfect game, which famously had a rain delay just after the start. Girardi caught that game, maybe he had an acid flashback.
Sure. If prior managerial experience at some level wasn't a Yankee requirement, then it shouldn't have been imposed on Mattingly post hoc. I'm just saying how I feel about it, and why I certainly don't think choosing Girardi can be called a "bizarre" decision.
And it certainly doesn't mean that it would have been unfair to give Girardi the benefit of his having had prior experience, as an advantage over Mattingly. If Mattingly didn't realize that this was going to be a handicap for him vis-a-vis Girardi and Pena, he'd have had to be pretty foolish.
And hey, Girardi probably gets bounced within two years anyway. Then he swoops in with a comeback, having done some minor league managing in the meantime.
My concern would be that Girardi is a red ass. He is liable to blow up at the wrong time and embarrass himself and the team. But I could say the same of Pinella, couldn't I?
On, and Girardi was never Manager of the year. He did receive the award, but it should have gone to Beinfest. This years Marlins played better with the only exception being those young arms Girardi slagged.
Oh, and it wasn't Tommy Lee with Pamela Anderson, no siree bob. Yes, he did schtupp her in that video, but it should have been me who shtupped her.
Pete Abraham had it as 3 years, 4.5 mil total, IIRC.
In comparison:
2007 Salaries:
Joe Torre, NYY $7.5 million
Lou Piniella, CHC $3.5 million
Bobby Cox, ATL $3 million
Tony La Russa, STL $2.8 million
Mike Scioscia, LAA $2 million
Jim Leyland, DET $2 million
Bruce Bochy, SF $1.75 million
Terry Francona, BOS $1.65 million
Phil Garner, HOU $1.5 million
Mike Hargrove, SEA $1.3 million
Ron Gardenhire, MIN $1.25 million
Ozzie Guillen, CHW $1.1 million
Eric Wedge, CLE $1.025 million
Jim Tracy, PIT $1 million
Bob Melvin, ARI $875,000
Buddy Bell, KC $825,000
Ned Yost, MIL $825,000
Clint Hurdle, COL $800,000
Charlie Manuel, PHI $800,000
Willie Randolph, NYM $700,000
Jerry Narron, CIN $600,000
Grady Little, LAD $600,000
Sammy Perlozzo, BAL $600,000
Ron Washington, TEX $600,000
Joe Maddon, TAM $550,000
John Gibbons, TOR $500,000
Manny Acta, WAS $500,000
Bob Geren, OAK $500,000
Dusty Baker got a two year deal worth $3.5 million per year. LaRussa just got a new deal too.
I don't think Girardi is worth about $2 million per year considering his experience. That's more than the ringed Terry Francona (surely due for a raise) or Ozzie Guillen.
He'd make a nice back-up for Varitek.
I wonder how well he catches the knuckleball?
Kevin, right now you're like the cat in the old Far Side cartoon who's just witnessed a crash between one truck carrying a load of tuna fish and another truck full of small wingless birds. It don't get much better than this.
I know this because I vaguely recall feelings like that myself once upon a time.
It was also nearly impossible to avoid. Looking at the 2006 Marlins, they had a pair of 21-year-old pitchers, three 22-year-olds, a half-dozen 23-year olds, and three 24-years old pitch for them during the season. If the team didn't want any of their young prospects to have a dramatic workload increase, then Beinfast should've taken some flyers on a couple of 28-year old AAAA pitchers to round out the staff. The only guys they had over the age of 27 were career relievers Matt Herges and Joe Borowski, along with Brian Moehler. My God, Todd Wellmeyer was the fourth oldest pitcher to record an out for them that year.
It's all well and good to say Girardi shouldn't have used his young arms so much, but dammit, he's got to get 1450 innings out of someone. He can't very well forfeit every fifth game or talk the innings into stopping the game after 6 innings.
On, and Girardi was never Manager of the year. He did receive the award, but it should have gone to Beinfest.
If you don't like greatly increasing the IP on young arms, then how can you like the job Beinfast did? If any GM has ever assembled a team designed to ensure that some young arm greatly increase their IP, it was him.
But that's still not a good argument for Girardi. As you pointed out that both he and Beinfest deserve blame for what happened to those pitchers. But Girardi got the NL Manager award solely because the team out-performed expectations. My argument is that it out-performed expectations because he had a great deal of talent brought in through canny trades made by Bienfest. If anything the team under-performed, check it's pythag. Girardi probably cost the team runs through his small ball fetish, had trouble keeping his cool, and disobeyed team guidelines in a manner that likely lead directly to Johnson's arm injury.
So what is the argument that Girardi deserved the award? Fredi got more runs and better base-running out of the team this year. His pitchers just sucked for some odd reason.
Grady is the one under contract and he might be third in line of manager choices there right now. And Torre is behind Girardi!
That would be just perfect, Girardi turns down the Yankees. At this point, it wouldn't surprise me a bit.
Forgive me, but I haven't been following this too closely. Where were the sources of Donnie bombing the interview?
He meant it was literally breathtakingly painful. In a major miscalculation, Mattingly kicked Cashman square in the balls.
Anyone who made enemies with Loria has got to be OK in my books!
I thought the reason he was fired even though everyone was talking about him as a potential Manager of the Year, was precisely because he could not get along with them.
The best hope for the Yankees: Big Stein is called to his great reward, and the estate taxes force the Steinbrats to sell the team. Not that I'm wishing anything bad on him, but we all got to go some times.
As soon as Posada files, Omar should be on the phone to him, pitching hard. I would love to see Pedro pitching to Jorge. Wouldn't that be a kick in the head -- or a fastball in the face, depending on your preference.
What I would really love to see is Girardi as the New Billy Martin -- hired and fired a half dozen times, while the Yankees pick up a few pennants and WS. Bring Back the Bronx Zoo!
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