Wouldn't it be easier to just say everyone is available but the very obvious Zach Greinke? I'd include Soria but a closer with a sore shoulder scare is enough for me to make him available.

Given Moore's off-season goal to add OBP and then see him deal for Mike Jacobs, I have a hard time believing he knows who his non-core players are.

What team isn't willing to trade its non-core players? I mean, I'm pretty sure the Indians would be willing to trade Ryan Garko, the Dodgers would move Cory Wade or Guillermo Mota, and the Rangers would trade Chris Davis, David Murphy, or Jason Jennings.

Why would someone want KC's non-core players?

Why would someone want KC's non-core players?

Milwaukee could feed them to Prince Fielder.

David DeJesus for Jeff Franceour seems so awful it seems likely to happen. If OBA is so important, why don't they put it on the scoreboard?

If I were a contending team that really needed one more starter for that push across the finish line, I'd be willing to talk to them about Gil Meche. I could very easily see them looking to dump his salary.

Why would someone want KC's non-core players?

Exactly. From TA:

Generally speaking, Kansas City's core includes power right-handers Zack Greinke and Gil Meche, closer Joakim Soria, third baseman Alex Gordon and first baseman Billy Butler.

No David DeJesus? Though I suppose that list is the writer's, rather than KC's.

Milwaukee could feed them to Prince Fielder.

Milk would have come out of my nose had I been drinking milk.

But I thought he was a vegetarian. Or does cannibalism not count?

No David DeJesus? Though I suppose that list is the writer's, rather than KC's.

DJ will get dealt within the next year. They have been looking to replace him ever since Dayton got here.

Milwaukee could feed them to Prince Fielder.

Milk would have come out of my nose had I been drinking milk.

But I thought he was a vegetarian. Or does cannibalism not count?

I think he's saying KC's non-core players are vegetables.

I'd take Mark Teahen, and shoot Aaron Miles into the sun.

Dejesus was a really good player for a few years. But he's playing like crap, not cheap anymore, and not especially young either.

I would love it if Toronto grabbed Meche... but I can't picture it happening.

Team over 5 games back and 5 games under .500 willing to trade their non-core players, big shocker. I looked up how DeJesus was doing, pretty horribly, and yea wow he's almost 30.

I don't get why Mark DeRosa is getting all this attention on the trade market, but not Teahen. Teahen is pretty much the same player, without the ability to play 2B, and maybe with slightly less power. He's also under contract for longer.

Teahen is pretty much the same player, without the ability to play 2B, and maybe with slightly less power.

So he's the same player, only a lot less valuable?

Yanks (and Rays) should look into Juan Cruz. would he cost much? I don't know, he has gotten knocked around some this year

So he's the same player, only a lot less valuable?

Ha, touche. Actually though, the teams that are looking at DeRosa (St. Louis, Cubs, Florida, Mets) seem to want him to play 3B/OF, which Teahen can do, and DeRosa only has more home runs than Teahen, their SLG are pretty much the same both for the year and for their careers. Teahen has a slightly higher OPS+ this year than DeRosa (108 to 106), although DeRosa has slightly higher WAR (1.0 to 0.8)

Dejesus was a really good player for a few years. But he's playing like crap, not cheap anymore, and not especially young either.

Is he no longer capable of playing CF? His bUZR dipped in 08 but the totalzone was good and his bUZR is good in LF this year. He's not cheap, but at 3.6 this year and 4.75 next (w/the buyout), it deosn't seem like a horrible contract. Unless all he can play is LF, I guess.

Keeping DeJesus out of CF seems like some sort of fixation. They moved him over for Gathright. When he bombed they got Crisp. Coco has been in and out with the shoulder problem but DeJesus still hasn't played an inning in CF: all the PT has gone to Maier.

Actually though, the teams that are looking at DeRosa (St. Louis, Cubs, Florida, Mets) seem to want him to play 3B/OF, which Teahen can do, and DeRosa only has more home runs than Teahen, their SLG are pretty much the same both for the year and for their careers.

In this context, they have similar values to the receiving teams, but not the sending teams.

I still think it unlikely Teahan gets traded. I'm not entirely sold on DeRosa being traded.

but DeJesus still hasn't played an inning in CF: all the PT has gone to Maier.

They even started Bloomie in CF over DJ. For whatever reason, they think DJ can't play CF anymore, but the metrics seem to say he can, and my lying eyes say he was average to slightly below average in center. But he doesn't steal a ton of bases, so Dayton probably thinks his defense is bad.

I still think it unlikely Teahan gets traded. I'm not entirely sold on DeRosa being traded.

Given that DeRosa's contract is up at the end of the year, and Cleveland would probably be a bit concerned about offering him arbitration, I think it's pretty likely that DeRosa get traded.

But he doesn't steal a ton of bases, so Dayton probably thinks his defense is bad.

You think Moore is finished in KC? Signing Greinke long term = A+, but everything else... (I'm still stuck on the Farnsworth contract. Sorry.)

I would love it if Toronto grabbed Meche... but I can't picture it happening.

Nah, that won't happen. Meche has just now finally admitted how PO'd he was about how J.P. Ricciardi dissed him after he picked the Royals over the Jays, so I really can't see him waiving his full no-trade to go there.

This is such a stupid article. Wow, good scoop Rosenthal. Maybe you should make like Michael Lewis and write a book about this newfangled philosophy.

I don't think Rosenthal has an original thought in his head. I think he gets fed ideas and all he does is transcribe. A couple of years back he wrote about how the Astros were willing to pony up a great package of established veterans and prospects for some star player whose name I can't remember. The Astros players he was referring to were players like Jason Lane and Adam Everett. If he had just thought it over, I think he would've figured out how ridiculous he sounded but alas, he didn't. Whenever he writes some article about steroids or the hall of fame, it reads like an abstract.

Is he no longer capable of playing CF? His bUZR dipped in 08 but the totalzone was good and his bUZR is good in LF this year. He's not cheap, but at 3.6 this year and 4.75 next (w/the buyout), it deosn't seem like a horrible contract. Unless all he can play is LF, I guess.

I was looking more at his pathetic OBP, but I suppose he should be expected to play better than that, and at 4.8 million, he's worth the money unless his bat has slipped for real and he can't play center. He's probably an average player right now, and average players have value. He's exactly the type of player the Royals should be looking to trade.

He certainly does not belong in any discussion of "core players" which should include Greinke and Gordon and no more at this point.

DeRosa vs. Teahen: I think DeRosa is a better defender, everywhere, in addition to playing more positions. Getting rid of him to save 5 million (2 of which you turn around and spend on Aaron Miles) makes no sense.

Why would someone want KC's non-core players?
Milwaukee could feed them to Prince Fielder.

Are you calling KC's non-core players fruits and nuts, Meat?

Are you calling KC's non-core players fruits and nuts, Meat?

I'm calling them a big jar of this.

DeRosa vs. Teahen: I think DeRosa is a better defender, everywhere, in addition to playing more positions. Getting rid of him to save 5 million (2 of which you turn around and spend on Aaron Miles) makes no sense.

It would have if we had gotten Peavy.

But we didn't, so it was really stupid.

AROM:

Cubs fans will shoot back that Hendry got some good arms in return.

Unfortunately, the Cubs should be in a "Win Now" mode. And DeRosa helps a good team win now.

Given his ability to play multiple difficult positions in at least an average manner AND hit AND stay healthy I think Mark DeRosa is one of the most valuable players in baseball and that's not hyperbole.

In this day of 19 pitchers on the roster DeRosa's worth is incalcuable.

I was looking more at his pathetic OBP, but I suppose he should be expected to play better than that, and at 4.8 million, he's worth the money unless his bat has slipped for real and he can't play center. He's probably an average player right now, and average players have value. He's exactly the type of player the Royals should be looking to trade.

DeJesus can still play center, but really, he's much better in left. As for his bat, who knows? It looks like it's starting to come around, though. It could be he just had a bad start. Yeah, his OBP is usually better than this, but he's never had much power.

Anyway, he has certainly been somewhat sought after in the past, and I imagine teams looking for OFers would be interested.

Given that DeRosa's contract is up at the end of the year, and Cleveland would probably be a bit concerned about offering him arbitration, I think it's pretty likely that DeRosa get traded.

Yeah, I almost can't imagine him not being traded. We're halfway through the season, the Indians have the worst record in the league, he's a relatively affordable player who can play six positions while hitting with power and patience, and there's almost no chance he'd choose to come back to Cleveland next year. There's no reason not to trade him.

Weird DeRosa fact: He hasn't played an inning of second base this year.

Is $2.5 mil and marginal prospects really worth more than 2 draft picks?

If DeRosa batted left-handed I would make the claim that he is the single most valuable player in baseball given current roster construction, contract, et.

The Indians have massive offense. They have no pitching. The Braves have 12 starters but no outfielders. Mark DeRosa will be in Atlanta before the month is out.

Is $2.5 mil and marginal prospects really worth more than 2 draft picks?

If you're the Cleveland Indians, yes. The Shapiro-led Indians are among the worst-drafting teams in the history of the draft, but I don't really have the time or numbers to do the research.

Cleveland's drafts from 2001-2008 (numbers are players drafted/major leaguers signed):
2001 - 53/1 (Luke Scott)
2002 - 54/3 (Jeremy Guthrie, Brian Slocum, Ben Francisco)
2003 - 52/4 (Michael Aubrey, Ryan Garko, Kevin Kouzmanoff, Aaron Laffey)
2004 - 50/4 (Jeremy Sowers, Scott Lewis, Chris Gimenez, Tony Sipp)
2005 - 52/2 (Jensen Lewis, Trevor Crowe)
2006 - 53/1 (David Huff)
2007 - 48/0
2008 - 50/0

They did take some kid named Timothy Lincecum with the 1261st overall pick in '05. So that was a nice pick. But in terms of actual major league production (in Cleveland) from eight years of the draft, you've got a couple serviceable backup outfielders, a marginal-at-best starting first baseman, one good starting pitcher, and a decent middle reliever. Everybody else has either been released, traded for a steaming pile of poop, is a disappointment, or hasn't established themselves yet.

I'll let '07 and '08 slide, but probably shouldn't...there is absolutely nobody in the 2007 draft class who's anywhere near major league ready. Not a single player. That draft might come up completely empty, with not even a bench player or bad reliever to show for it.

So is $2.5m and a couple of marginal prospects better than two draft picks? Absolutely, if this front office is staying.

And I'm not sure it's going to be a marginal prospect. In the past few years they got Santana for Blake, traded Max Ramirez for Lofton, got Shin-Soo Choo for Ben Broussard, and got Asdrubal Cabrera for Eduardo Perez. I know Bavasi is gone, but DeRosa's at least as good a player as any of Blake, Lofton, Broussard, or Perez were.

So is $2.5m and a couple of marginal prospects better than two draft picks? Absolutely, if this front office is staying.

Also, the Indians have to consider the likelihood that DeRosa accepts arbitration. With his numbers this season (0.280/20/100)and defensive flexibility, he would have a decent shot at hitting them up for an amount of $10M or more, which is probably a lot more than he's likely to get next year on the free agent market.

Actually though, the teams that are looking at DeRosa (St. Louis, Cubs, Florida, Mets) seem to want him to play 3B/OF, which Teahen can do, and DeRosa only has more home runs than Teahen, their SLG are pretty much the same both for the year and for their careers. Teahen has a slightly higher OPS+ this year than DeRosa (108 to 106), although DeRosa has slightly higher WAR (1.0 to 0.8)

I think you are selling DeRosa a little short here. He clearly turned a corner as a full-time player with Texas in '06 and has since posted OBA-heavy OPS+ figures of 108, 102, 118, and 106. So for the last 3 1/2 years, he's been a solidly above-average offensive player, who can play six positions. Also worth considering, his counting stats have been pretty good over the last year and a half, making it likely that he's at least a Type-B FA in the off-season.

OTOH, Teahen hasn't been nearly the same offensive player since also breaking out in 2006, posting seasons of a 98, 91, and 108 OPS+ since. So, a lot less power, a lot less versatility, and he's likely to make upwards of $4 mil next season in arb-- not sure he's worth that much to a lot of teams.

Edit: On DeRosa possibly accepting arb, BBRef has his career earnings pegged at just under $10 mil entering this season, where he's due to earn $5.5 mil. Considering he can slot at several different positions, I don't see any way he doesn't find a multi-year deal that exceeds what he'd likely make through arb, if it was offered to collect the pick.

Considering he can slot at several different positions, I don't see any way he doesn't find a multi-year deal that exceeds what he'd likely make through arb.

He can probably get a multi-year deal in free agency for more than he would make on one year of arb, but how many more years and how much more cash? Given that guys like Dunn only got 2/$20M, it's entirely possible that he only gets an offer around 2/$16M or 3/$21M. If those are the sort of offers available (as I think are likely for a mid 30s guy still thought of as a middle infielder), then it might be in his best interest to just go year-to-year on arb for as long as teams are willing to offer it.

I think you are selling DeRosa a little short here.

Sure. DeRosa is a better player, but I don't think the difference is all that great. I don't expect him to yield the same haul as DeRosa but it shouldn't be significantly less of a return.

You think Moore is finished in KC? Signing Greinke long term = A+, but everything else... (I'm still stuck on the Farnsworth contract. Sorry.)

He is not going to get fired anytime soon. But this was the offseason I turned on him. Ownership finally approved a much higher payroll, the market for free agent bottomed out meaning small market teams had bargain deals on free agents, and Dayton absolutely squandered it. His drafts have been okay, but I don't like that he relies so much on high upside, unpolished prep pitchers. He has been here three years and the upper minors are still completely barren. His roster construction is very puzzling. He loves redundancies on the roster - he acquired Miguel Olivo who does the exact same thing as John Buck. He acquired Coco Crisp who is like David DeJesus except with less OBA skills and better defense. He acquired a poor fielding first baseman even though he already had Billy Butler. He has both Tony Pena Jr. AND Luis Hernandez AND Tug Hulett on his bench...with Willie Bloomquist as the starter - can you honestly tell the difference between those four players?

I don't think the team will lose 100 games as they used to every year, but Dayton has only raised the Royals from "historically awful" to "David Littlefield with the Pirates" awful.

If DeRosa batted left-handed I would make the claim that he is the single most valuable player in baseball given current roster construction, contract, et.

This is insanity.

I think you are selling DeRosa a little short here. He clearly turned a corner as a full-time player with Texas in '06 and has since posted OBA-heavy OPS+ figures of 108, 102, 118, and 106.

I picked up DeRosa in my NL only roto league because Ron Shandler's forecaster claimed he was a .280-20-80 player waiting to happen...

1: Shandler was right
2: Not that year, I got a .239-3-31 line for my troubles....

SSR:

All I ask is that folks consider the following:

--High versatility

--Average to ABOVE average defense at KEY positions. We aren't talking a 1b/left fielder here. This guy plays all over the diamond and more than holds his own

--He's consistent of late with the bat AND can keep hitting DESPITE rotating around the field

--VERY short benches these days because of high reliever usage

--VERY reasonable cost

So you have a guy who hits, fields, stays in the lineup, plays all over, protects you at multiple positions because of injury, is cheap, and never complains.

I don't know the unit metric that best captures ALL of this but Jes&s;H Chr*st, this is some player.

So mock away but for return on a dollar Mark Derosa is about the single best investment a GM can make.................

That is a good list, Dan. You've successfully changed my opinion of Shapiro as a GM. It does look like he makes savvy trades but can't draft worth a damn.

I'm tired of the DeRosa man-crush, and I even like DeRosa.

Cleveland's drafts from 2001-2008 (numbers are players drafted/major leaguers signed):

That is one ############# depressing list.

Ha! I have achieved the unthinkable: Ryan and Beano agree

All bow before me......

(Papal wave to the masses)

If DeRosa batted left-handed I would make the claim that he is the single most valuable player in baseball given current roster construction, contract, et.

I think you're clearly overplaying your hand here, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't look great taking Brian Buscher's (or Delmon Young's or Nick Punto's or Matt Tolbert's or Mike Redmond's or Sean Henn's...) spot on the Twins roster. Of course, the Twins haven't made a trade within their division since the 2001 deadline blockbuster that sent Mark Redman to the Tigers for Todd Jones. (Is that a long time, compared to other teams? It seems like it, but maybe not.)

DeRosa would add another average-plus righthanded bat to the lineup, which they could really use, while either (A) knocking Punto back to a true utility role and Matt Tolbert back to scrappy camp, (B) being a real insurance policy at 3B against the inevitable Joe Crede dings and dents, and/or (C) further marginalizing Delmon Young.

As Harveys points out, the man is not without his uses.

Sure. DeRosa is a better player, but I don't think the difference is all that great. I don't expect him to yield the same haul as DeRosa but it shouldn't be significantly less of a return.

I really think the difference is pretty huge... DeRosa is clearly a better player now and is an impending compensable free agent. Teahen is hitting fairly well this year, but he might not even be worth what he'd make in arb next season.

I agree that DeRosa is a tremendously valuable player and I think value metrics underrate him because they don't account for versatility. But Harvey's, you go to far. Contracts considered, I'd rather have J Upton or Longoria or Wieters. Leave out pre arb guys and it's still Pujols.

Is DeRosa's versatility a unique skill? Or could most better fielders easily handle 2B/3B/OF, but they're just not asked to because they're good enough to stick in the middle infield?

I'm sure it takes some time for most guys to learn a new position, but I also think most SS would be pretty good at 3B or an outfield corner after a short while.

It's definitely not a unique skill, but it is a valuable one. What makes him really valuable, however, is the combination of his bat and glove - there are plenty of guys who can hit like him, and plenty who can field like him, but very few who can do both, and even fewer who can do both while carrying as reasonable a contract as he does.

As you note, most SS could handle 3B or OF, but most SS would also hit much worse than DeRosa.

The crux is fielding well at different positions on an erratic basis. (Three games at second, a stint in left, give the third baseman a day off and so on)

Sure, a regular SS could learn third if left there a while. But rotate back and forth? And keep hitting? No.

Baseball is a hard game.

Are we really sure that DeRosa fields well at any of his positions? Acceptably, obviously, but well?

Bk;

Nobody likes factcheckers.......

The funny thing is, the Indians already had kind of a lowercase Mark DeRosa in Jamey Carroll. Carroll is a good glove at second or third, and can fill in at shortstop or the outfield in a pinch. He's not the hitter DeRosa is, but he's not helpless either.

I think it's extremely valuable to have one of those guys around, but you don't really need two.

Bannister would be a worth pickup for a lot of NL teams.

I did some reasonable-depth research into the draft and its history (valuing slots, hitter/pitcher, and HS/College) some years back here, though I had the unfortunate timing to do it almost literally moments before philly released what I'm almost positive was the very first of his work, which put mine to some amount of shame. But I retain enough knowledge to know that if it's true, and of course there's no reason for it not to be, that list of Shapiro's drafts is bad. So incredibly bad, enough standard deviations away from the mean, that if there were any benefit to doing so I would wonder whether they were throwing the whole thing.

Cubs fans will shoot back that Hendry got some good arms in return.

Whoa there! Some Cub fans please! Many of us disliked the DeRosa trade from the get-go ... and I'm pretty sure we universally despised the signing of Miles.

I don't really buy the Peavy thing either, I think the "SD wants some of these guys the Cubs got" was pretty much baseless rumor. More believable is that DeRosa (and Marquis) were moved to make room for Bradley's salary ... and that somebody in the Cubs (Piniella or Hendry) seriously over-rated Miles.

On DeRosa vs. Teahen -- the difference is that DeRosa is now on his 4th straight season as an essentially full-time player putting up good offense and defense at his positions. In 2006, Teahen was excellent but for 2007-8, Teahen was a below-average hitting, poor-defending RF (who didn't have much rep at 3B as I recall). Teahen has been seriously short of DeRosa in value for the last two seasons.

Now Teahen's only 27 and seems to have two more years of arb (he must have been the super-est of super 2s) but then he's also already making $3.6 M and, on a good team, he's a bench player. So that's not necessarily a big advantage. But yeah, I'd think there will be a couple teams at the deadline who'd be interested in him, probably including the Cubs.

On Royals' non-core players of interest: Olivo's turned his year around and should be enticing. Same goes for John Buck. DeJesus has been well-discussed. Jacobs is back to being Mike Jacobs so a team would have to be pretty desperate to want him (the Mets?). I wonder what they could get for Bannister -- I can imagine anything between nothing and a real good prospect (given how cheap Bannister will be over the next few years). Mahay is usually a good LOOGY (he should have been dealt last year).

Of course the problem with trading "non-core" is that you don't get anything much of value back. Their best bet at making a splash is Meche. Over the last 3.5 seasons, he's got 700 IP with a 110 ERA+ and he's signed for another 2 years at $12 M each. AJ Burnett just got 5/$80 for essentially the same thing. Meche is a valuable commodity.

So, among contenders, who needs him most and would want him around for 2 more years?

Mets -- but what can they trade for him other than F-Mart?
Phils -- I have no idea what they have for prospects
Jays -- if they think they can hang in this year, but again what have they got to trade?
Brewers -- Escobar would be the Royals prime target I assume. An alternative might be Hardy plus a couple of other good prospects
Rangers -- this would seem to make a lot of sense. Smoak would do it presumably, but I'm sure they'd rather not trade him.
Angels -- I don't know if any of their remaining prospects have enough lustre. Kendrick for Meche could be interesting.

Brewers and Rangers make the most sense to me.

Jays -- if they think they can hang in this year, but again what have they got to trade?

The Jays currently have Romero, Richmond, and Tallet all doing capable jobs as starters right now, and Halladay coming back this weekend. They've also got Litsch, Jansen, Marcum, and McGowan on the DL, and Cecil, Purcey, and Mills shuffling between the minors and the 5th slot in the rotation. While Meche would be nice to have this year, he'll crowd a young cheap guy out of the rotation next year (and the year after), and eat a big chunk of the money which the Jays would like to use to try to resign Halladay.

While I'd love it if the Jays could make a run at the playoffs this year, I'd be happier if they could do it without trading for an expensive (but definitely worth the contract) pitcher like Meche.

Brewers and Rangers make the most sense to me.

I think Casey McGehee, rightly or wrongly, is neutralizing any interest the Brewers might have had in trading for a second baseman, though were they to do so, DeRosa makes a lot of sense, as Melvin has said he wouldn't want to acquire anyone requiring a commitment beyond this year. Cliff Lee, though...

Bk:

Agreed. Before the season, yes. Now? With Gamel not embarrassing himself, no.

By the way, continued good work on BrewCrewBall. How many on the masthead these days?

By the way, continued good work on BrewCrewBall. How many on the masthead these days?

Ugh, I don't want to talk about it.

the only way the derosa deal was a good one was in which the cubs got peavy. otherwise we all pretty much hated it, and still do
someone please kill miles

Since the beginning of 2008 Ben Zobrist has played 2B/SS/3B/LF/CF/RF while hitting .273/.372/.574. He's definitely below average at SS but can handle 2B and 3B just fine and easily has the range to play the outfield corners while being at least adequate in CF. No signs of cooling off much either (in fact he has an OPS over 1.000 in each month this year) so I'd say he's definitely more valuable than DeRosa.

If Zobrist is fine at 2nd, why would they play him anywhere else? (I mean, even before Iwamura's injury.)