Will this be a time share with Bard, or a clearer picture (Barrett=starter, Bard=backup)?

Barrett's a pretty good player. Is he really that much of an ass? I hadn't heard about any attitude problems with him prior to this year.

Is he really that much of an ass?

I think the important question is, "if he was such an ass, wouldn't that make him Lou Pinella's favorite player?"

From Roroworld
The San Diego Tribune is reporting the Padres have acquired Michael Barrett for reserve catcher Rob Bowen and low Single-A outfielder Kyler Burke.
Bowen has batted .268 with two home runs in 82 at-bats for the Padres this season. Burke was batting .211 with one home run in 213 at-bats with the Padres' Single-A team in Fort Wayne.
Source: San Diego Union-Tribune

This may help the Padres, but with Bard and Bowen, they have a pretty good catching situation as is. I think Barrett will get along with the Padres' staff and it will likely be a job share with Bard. I would think Bowen, who is not a bad player and is only 26, might be going the other way unless this is a set-up for another move.

Cross-posted with #4. Good move by both teams IMO. Bowen throws pretty well and is a decent hitter; the Padres get a little more pop and more depth.

billy:

I know a few Cubs fans who have strong opinons concerning Barrett. My guess is that you will get a lengthy answer, or twenty, once they arrive to discuss.

I think what's telling is that the Cubs traded a catcher who:

--one of the better offensive catchers in the majors
--is not only productive but CONSISTENT offensively
--fairly durable

That is a pretty darn rare combination for that position. In his first year with the team the Cubs finished third in the NL in ERA. Then ninth. Then 14th last year. So far the Cubs are back up to fifth.

Now ERA is not the best indicator of pitching performance. Nor does this reflect all of the other things that have been swirling around Wrigley. But I think if you ask anyone around the NL Central they will tell you that Barrett is a healthy Mitch Meluskey.

Catcher is just too critical of a position to have a guy who has issues with interpersonal skills. A tempermental left fielder hits and then gets out of the way. A catcher is in the center of the action.

I will be interested to see how this plays out for both parties.

Burke was a supplement pick last year (#35 overall) - what google gave me on him - so it would appear he's probably a bit young for his level.

It still seems a bit light for Barrett, but at least the Cub made the right choice (Zambrano and Hill vs. Barrett) for a change.

I would think this means Bowen starts? I don't see how Hank White plays every day.

The last few years he's been a very good offensive catcher with average to below average defensive skills, which nets out positively. This year, for whatever reason he has been god awful defensively and his hitting has been down, which definitely has netted out negatively. I can't recall any issues with his teammates before this year, but I'm assuming there's something to things if they were this quick to pull the trigger.

Of course, maybe Hendry just wanted to move quickly while his value was at rock bottom.

Harvey -

Barrett's pretty bad defensively... he's got a large number of passed balls (leads the majors, I believe) and a pretty bad CS rate. He's also looked awful on the bases. Add that to personality issues (even beyond the Zambrano incident and the possibly overblow Hill incident, he's seemingly picked fights that rather than 'inspire' the Cubs, have sent them into tailspins).

I won't miss him... would have liked to get more for him, but good riddance.

The big edge for the Padres comes from the fact that Barrett will probably be a Type A free agent in a few months. He had a 121 OPS+ last year and is on pace for a 20 HR season. I don't think his attitude issues or poor defensive reputation will impact his free agent compensation status, so the Padres are now in line for 2 extra picks in the 2008 draft.

But now who's gonna punch A.J.?

But now who's gonna punch A.J.?

I'm guessing that finding volunteers won't be a problem.

# 12 -

I live on the South Side, I'll make a run at it for you.

The last few years he's been a very good offensive catcher with average to below average defensive skills

Honestly, I think this oversells his defense. It's always been pretty bad. Barrett was one of my favorite Cubs for a while, but his defense and attitude both seem to have taken major nosedives this year, so I'm really not terribly sad to see him go. It does seem like he should have been worth more - and almost certainly was worth more two months ago. Oh, well, typical Cubs in that regard.

So, how good is Bowen? Is he a legitimate starting catcher? Also, is Blanco off the DL yet - granted the guy can't hit, but he is a heck of a defensive catcher.

Typical Hendry trading a player at the bottom of his value. Presumably Bowen will be the starter with Koyie Hill backing him up until Blanco is healthy again. Burke is the usual highly drafted, high strike out guy that the Cubs always get in this kind of deal. I don't expect to ever see his name on an all-star ballot.

zonk:

I understand. Note the reference to Meluskey who was a terrible defensive catcher with an attitude who could hit. He got himself traded off the Astros thanks to his demeanor.

As to folks who contend that Barrett's offense compensates for his defense I dispute that claim. This isn't a Mike Piazza situation where a guy has one hole in his game (throwing) but otherwise calls a good game, is agile, and manages his staff. Barrett was lazy behind the plate and obviously couldn't get along with the team's ace.

Explain to me the value in THAT???

At least the Cubs will avoid the circus surrounding Barrett's 100th HR chase.

Seriously does any front office destroy its player's value like the Cubs?
Salty would be a good fit for the Cubs, pity they don't have anything to offer in return

The Cubs have plenty to offer in return, but Hendry is afraid to trade anyone the fans don't already despise.

As to folks who contend that Barrett's offense compensates for his defense I dispute that claim. This isn't a Mike Piazza situation where a guy has one hole in his game (throwing) but otherwise calls a good game, is agile, and manages his staff. Barrett was lazy behind the plate and obviously couldn't get along with the team's ace.

This is a good point. Barrett's an interesting case study in terms of the value of catchers' defense. The parts of catcher defense that are measurable - throwing out baserunners, passed balls, fielding bunts and popups - don't really add up to very much. Stolen bases and passed balls are (a) at least partly the responsibility of the pitcher, and (b) just not that valuable, they're just one extra base, not lost outs, per se. So one can draw one of two conclusions - either catcher defense is VASTLY overrated among baseball folks, or the VAST majority of a catcher's defensive value is largely unmeasurable (calling a game, working with his pitchers, etc.).

But a guy like Piazza was fine, if not very good, at the unmeasureable part of the game, yet, there's this tendency to think - (a) can't throw out baserunners, must be a crappy catcher, AND (b) catcher is the most important defensive position. But if (b) is true, then (a) is a very, very small part of the value of a catcher.

If there's truth to the idea that a catcher's ability to call a game and work with his pitchers is important (and I definitely think this is true), then Barrett is easily one of the worst defensive catchers out there and his defense could easily be bad enough to "make up for" his strong offense.

I wonder is Josh Towers talked to Greg Maddux before making this trade, and, if he did, what Maddux had to say about Barrett.

As to folks who contend that Barrett's offense compensates for his defense I dispute that claim.

I don't disagree with you but judging a catchers handling of the staff has got to be one of the hardest things to quantify. I am not looking forward to the offence that the catcher position is going to be putting up but I am looking forward to seeing how this does affect the defensive side of things.

Typical Hendry trading a player at the bottom of his value.

I agree to a point here. Barrett was in his last year of his contract so he had to be traded during this season. I don't think getting draft pick compensation would be helpful to the Cubs at this point. Catcher is one of those positions that you need to have someone there now so getting draft picks for him would still require a trade to get yourself a starting catcher.

Nice pickup for SD, and I always enjoy seeing the Cubs shoot off one of their own kneecaps, so thumbs-up all around here.

Storm:

It's a problem for otheres in the NL Central. Krivsky has done it with Dunn. Complains regularly about his defense, habits, etc. then acts surprised when nobody will break the prospect bank when he puts the guy up for auction. Littlefield did the same thing with Aramis Ramirez.

Brewers GM Doug Melvin has made an art form of taciturn. It's kind of frustrating as a fan, because obviously you can't gauge what a guy might be thinking when he won't say ANYTHING. But you learn to appreciate the lack of info. Along the lines of "if you can't say anything nice.....". And Melvin has done ok with the trades.

It's a problem for otheres in the NL Central. Krivsky has done it with Dunn. Complains regularly about his defense, habits, etc. then acts surprised when nobody will break the prospect bank when he puts the guy up for auction. Littlefield did the same thing with Aramis Ramirez.

Brewers GM Doug Melvin has made an art form of taciturn. It's kind of frustrating as a fan, because obviously you can't gauge what a guy might be thinking when he won't say ANYTHING.

Absolutely. Ricciardi makes good copy, but I think the best GM public personality is resolutely vanilla. The Yankees, as is being discussed on the Rivera thread, are doing the same thing at a different level, with ARod. Basic rule of personnel management/interaction in any field: Praise publicly, criticize privately.

Nice pickup for SD, and I always enjoy seeing the Cubs shoot off one of their own kneecaps, so thumbs-up all around here.

Conceding that Bowen may be the kind of guy who gets exposed by more playing time, I don't see it that way, short-term, although the draft pick issue brought up earlier is important. Bowen hits OK, is 26, hungry, and has a good arm. Barrett, while a useful player, is not Johnny Bench and has now gotten into public confrontations with the Cubs' two best SPs. I think Barrett has "shot off one of his own kneecaps" in terms of a massive FA payout, unless the Padres make it to post-season and Barrett is an October hero.

So who's catching for the Cubs now? The only other catcher listed on their roster is Koyie Hill, who has 50 career games.

I wonder is Josh Towers talked to Greg Maddux before making this trade, and, if he did, what Maddux had to say about Barrett.

I definitely think that Josh Towers should be picking Maddux's brain, but not about Michael Barrett. On how to pitch, yes.

Kevin Towers, OTOH, may have asked Maddux a question or two...

Seriously does any front office destroy its player's value like the Cubs?

It's not as simple as the front office. The Cubs are engaged in a perpetual soap opera in the dugout and on the field. The organization and its fans are more concerned about identifying and banishing the latest scapegoat than they are in playing baseball.

Indeed, this is a badly botched situation, but I'm not too concerned about it, for a number of reasons:

1. I am tired of Barrett and his antics. There are certain things a person can do to completely destroy all credibility. One of those is to be a catcher, standing on second base, and attempt a straight steal with two outs. I am so unbelievably sick of his stupidity, and that was the last straw in my mind. Barrett is a really good hitter, but he does pretty much everything else very badly.

2. Even if Barrett were to undergo his customary mid-season hot streak and end up hitting to his season projection, it would not have been a wise move to re-sign him. I'm not at all thrilled about the idea of a multiyear commitment to Barrett, starting at age 31.

3. If the Cubs continue floating around a handful of games behind the Division leader or move forward, which seems likely enough, the Cubs would be reluctant to trade him at the deadline. Of course, you have to wonder whether the Cubs would get a lot more for Barrett in a month than they are getting now. So far in June, he's hitting over .300, and as I mentioned earlier, he has a track record of getting hot mid-season.

4. This makes Hendry look bad, and I would really like to see him fired. Barrett was one of Hendry's favorites, and while Hendry actually deserves legitimate positive credit for bringing him into the organization, this bad ending will be what people remember. That's not fair, but an overall negative impression about Hendry is.

But I don't pretend that this situation is something other than it is: a complete screw-up. In the Cubs organization, personal problems spin out of control, turning flawed players who should be able to find positive contributing roles into pariahs.

I definitely think that Josh Towers should be picking Maddux's brain, but not about Michael Barrett. On how to pitch, yes.

Kevin Towers, OTOH, may have asked Maddux a question or two...

Dammit! I knew Josh Towers didn't sound right! Sorry.

Barrett's a pretty good player. Is he really that much of an ass? I hadn't heard about any attitude problems with him prior to this year.

Barrett has been a pretty good player. This year his offense is way down. And he's 30 years old, so that might not just be a fluke. His baserunning and defense are both pretty bad, so unless his bat is above average, he's a lousy player. Add to that he's gotten in a major fight with Zambrano and followed that up by having a heating dughout argument with Rich Hill. Last year he punched AJ Pierzysnki in the face for little reason. He had another, lesser incident last year as well. A few years ago he went at it with the Astros.

I think what's telling is that the Cubs traded a catcher who:

--one of the better offensive catchers in the majors
--is not only productive but CONSISTENT offensively
--fairly durable

He has been consistent. This year his OPS+ is down 30 points. Granted, last year was his peak OPS+, but he's routinely been far better than this in the past. His sOPS+ as a catcher (sOPS+ compares his OPS+ to others with that split, in this case catchers) put him at 104 so far this year. Above average, but not enough to make him a good player with all the rest of the baggage.

As for durable, here's his games played over the last five full seasons:

2002: 117
2003: 70
2004: 134
2005: 133
2006: 107

That's not fully fair. In 2002-3 he didn't hit very well. He barely cracked .200 in '03. That excuse points to a larger problem. He's a late bloomer, who had a few good seasons, and appears to be trailing off noticably now that he's in his early 30s. Sounds like an offensive version of Todd Ritchie.

Nice pickup for SD, and I always enjoy seeing the Cubs shoot off one of their own kneecaps, so thumbs-up all around here.

They dumped a guy who was bad with the leather, bad on the bases, who gets into fights (both literal and verbal) with his pitchers, and possibly past his prime with the stick. How's that shooting themselves in the kneecaps?

Did Maddux throw to Barrett when he was with the Cubs, or did he use the backup as his personal valet as he did with Atlanta?

Seriously does any front office destroy its player's value like the Cubs?

I certainly don't want to defend the Cubs brass & their ability to play down a person's trade value (Patterson, Sosa), but how's this their doing? The man had to go to the hospital after getting in a clubhouse brawl with the team's ace. Shortly afterwards he gets in a dugout argument with the clubhouse's young lefthanded starter. Meanwhile, he's having major troubles on the field, on the bases, and his batting average is down 50 points. Barrett drove his own value down, and put considerable pressure on the Cubs FO to get rid of him sooner, not later.

Maddux was about half Barrett/half Blanco last year with the Cubs.

With the Dodgers, he opted for Martin instead of Hall.

Did Maddux throw to Barrett when he was with the Cubs, or did he use the backup as his personal valet as he did with Atlanta?

Checking some random games at b-ref, Maddux had Paul Bako as his valet in 2004, but had Barrett catch for him in 2005-6.

This is stupid if only because Barrett was not the problem with the Cubs. As Mr. Richtingen says, he was just a scapegoat. The Cubs have problems they maybe <u>could</u> fix, but banishing a hitter like Barrett for nonentities isn't a fix.

As for his affecting Z & Co., Z's ERA has gone down a whole run since they had their spat, so it's hard for me to see that it matters that Barrett is a jackass. Hell, maybe it matters in a good way.

How come retroshiite isn't here? Shouldn't he be celebrating?

I'll try to be rational here. When I saw the headline, I thought, "Great, I hope they got some value in return." Then when I saw who they got, I though, "By gum, Hendry's done it again."

I won't pass final judgment on the deal until I see what this Bowen guy does for the pitching staff. Until then, I have issue with the trade for two reasons:

1) I don't think they got enough in return. Granted, his value wasn't high at this point and he's a free agent at season's end. Still, for one of the better offensive catchers in the game, you'd like to see them get a bit more value.

2) Barrett was still one of our better offensive players. This team is too lacking at short, right, and to an extent, center for them to dump an offensive guy like Barrett and not replace him with someone more proven. I don't think this deal would seem so bad if the Cubs had better guys at the aforementioned positions.

But I am the eternally optimistic. Maybe this Bowen guy will be the defensive backstop the Cubs may feel is necessary. And maybe he'll even bring some offensive eventually.

Barrett's offensive numbers are sure going to suffer, though, aren't they?

I agree with just about every point that Dag and Andere made above.

Did Maddux throw to Barrett when he was with the Cubs, or did he use the backup as his personal valet as he did with Atlanta?

Blanco caught him mostly, but I know he through to Barrett at times. I don't think he liked it though.

Last year he punched AJ Pierzysnki in the face for little reason.

Do you need a good reason to punch AJ Pierzynski?

Everyone in this thread sits there behind their computers talking all kinds of #### about Michael Barrett. Put yourself in the man's shoes. Don't you think you'd become a little more irritable after having your scrotum ruptured?

Z's ERA has gone down a whole run since they had their spat, so it's hard for me to see that it matters that Barrett is a jackass

I'm pretty sure Barrett also hasn't caught Zambrano since their spat, so that could simply be evidence that Barrett's lousy at calling a game. To go much beyond that, you have to start speculating, of course, but if Zambrano and Hill are both uncomfortable having Barrett as their catcher, then right there, you've got a starting catcher for whom 40% of the starting staff would prefer not to pitch to him, which means you either have a catcher who's only good for maybe 100 games even if he stays healthy or you end up making your top two starting pitchers uncomfortable.

This is stupid if only because Barrett was not the problem with the Cubs. As Mr. Richtingen says, he was just a scapegoat. The Cubs have problems they maybe could fix, but banishing a hitter like Barrett for nonentities isn't a fix.

No, he's not *the* problem, but he is definitely a problem. And now it's fixed. Hendry's not done yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if he thought that he was.

I sit near retroshiite in the stands at Wrigley, so I feel competent to celebrate on his behalf: halleluiah. I really enjoyed Barrett as a hitter, but the defense--and all the other assorted garbage--reached the point of no return long ago.

The number of times I'll expect to hear Ron Santo almost swear on the air this season has just plummeted.

Do you need a good reason to punch AJ Pierzynski?

He gives you so many good ones, it's pretty sad when you miss them all when hitting him. He did the nearly impossible: he came off like a jerk in a tussle with AJ.

I'm pretty sure Barrett also hasn't caught Zambrano since their spat

I'm really sure that's the case.

As for his affecting Z & Co., Z's ERA has gone down a whole run since they had their spat, so it's hard for me to see that it matters that Barrett is a jackass. Hell, maybe it matters in a good way.

Barrett has not caught Zambrano since the fight, and two days after the fight, the Cubs brought up a real centerfielder. Those two facts have probably helped Z more than Barrett's jackassitude.

In 1994 Maddux threw exclusively (I think) to Paul Bako who was Barrett's backup.

Then Bako left for the Dodgers, and Maddux threw to Barrett for most of his starts in 1995 and 1996 (although he worked with Blanco maybe a third of the time).

[NOTE: I misestimated the years by 10. This should be taken into account for future reference.]

Crispix, aside from the decade issue, I think you are correct.

This team is too lacking at short, right, and to an extent, center for them to dump an offensive guy like Barrett and not replace him with someone more proven.

Looking at the Cubs' team splits, here's their sOPS+ by position (worst to best):

SS - 52
RF - 83
C - 86
CF - 97
2B - 107
LF - 117
P - 122
1B - 128
3B - 131

Catcher's dragged down by Barrett's backups, but let's not kid outselves. He wasn't going to start for Zambrano again, and so you had to expect a certain level of backup performance with him as the team's starters the rst of the way.

"Wo you need a good reason to punch AJ Pierzynski?"

I think that wanting to punch him is plenty good, as reasons go.

Just to reiterate and reinforce what's been said above -- let's be realistic about Barrett provides (or, used to provide but hasn't this year) offensively.

We were talking about a plus offensive contributor, by no means even at his best were we ever talking about a premium offensive contributor. He was never anywhere near prime Piazza (not that anyone was ever arguing that) -- he wasn't even gimpy piazza level or prime Lieberthal/prime LoDuca/prime Kendall level. He looked better because his best offensive years coincided with the fall of Piazza and more or less predated the rise of Martin/McCann/etc.

Like I said initially -- I would have liked more, too... but Kyler Burke WAS a first rounder out of HS last year (albeit supplemental) and I think he's just 19, and I'm not convinced Bowen won't do a nice Johnny Estrada imitation for a few years.... I don't think it was reasonable to expect Barrett to ever bring a blue chipper in return, even before 'personality issues' (real or not) came to a head. We're talking about a guy who was basically given away to Oakland, then acquired by the Cubs for Damian Miller and $$$. All in all, the Cubs got nice value for what it cost to acquire him.

I'm happy to see him out of town. Whatever we get out of Burke and Bowen is gravy.

2B - 107

You heard it here first. DeFonteRiot is an above-average second baseman. Patterson can take his time in AAA.

Barret caught Zambrano when Zambrano almost had his no-hitter against the Padres that he lost when Branyan hit his one-handed homer.

So there.

I'm in agreement with anyone who says that Michael Barrett is dumb, because he is. The most alarming thing was how well Cubs' pitchers did when Koyie Hill (not exactly Johnny Bench) caught in his place. It's one thing when an established defensive catcher like Hank White has an edge in CERA over an offensive catcher like Barrett, but when a journeyman does it, too?

Lou was sick of Barrett, and Barrett was the target of his famous, "Get somebody in here who can catch the ball and run the bases!" rant. His days were numbered then, and only his friendship with Hendry gave him any hope of staying.

If you go through most of the bizarre plays the Cubs have been in since he arrived in 2004, Barrett is involved in most of them, including the night in Cincinnati he tried to throw out Adam Dunn who was jogging off the field after being forced at second base. The game in Philadelphia when a dropped third strike turned into him throwing the ball into LEFT field and allowing Jimmy Rollins to score the game winning run. The game in LA this year when Ramon Martinez fell down between second and third in a tie game in the 10th and Barrett threw behind him to second and Martinez easiy made it to third base. Not to mention him acting the tough guy by getting in Roy Oswalt's face twice during at bats in 2004 (the first time was excessive but excusable--Roy had hit Barrett intentionally during his previous start and not been suspended for it while Kerry Wood was suspended for retaliating). He got into it with Dave Roberts (DAVE ROBERTS!) at home plate just a week or so before he infamously punched AJ Pierzynski. While the Zambrano fight wasn't really his fault, he did then go into the clubhouse to try to reason with Zambrano after Piniella had told Barrett to just leave Carlos alone, and that's when Barrett got both eyes blackened and his lip fattened.

He never hit well enough to justify carrying him defensively (not just this throwing which was never that bad, but his game calling and his terrible fundamentals in blocking pitches), especially not when he's posting a .307 OBA in his age 30 season.

Vin Scully summed it up after Barrett's terrible decision in that Memorial Day Weekend game in LA, "Teams have been trying to make a catcher out of him for nine years."

Oh dear, Barrett is one of my g/f's favorite players. I'm not breaking this news to her.

The difficult part is Carlos is her other favorite.

Uhhh...53. Koyie Hill caught Zambrano's one-hitter against the Padres.

So there.

I mean, Zambrano lost the game with the homer, not the no-no.

In 1994 Maddux threw exclusively (I think) to Paul Bako who was Barrett's backup.

Then Bako left for the Dodgers, and Maddux threw to Barrett for most of his starts in 1995 and 1996 (although he worked with Blanco maybe a third of the time).

[NOTE: I misestimated the years by 10. This should be taken into account for future reference.]

I think a big part of this was Barrett's struggles with CS% -- One of the few things Maddux has never done well is hold baserunners... He's a phenomenal pitcher, phenomenal fielder, great hitter, and good bunter -- but he doesn't hold baserunners worth a damn. It was no different in Atlanta -- Javy Lopez rarely rarely caught Maddux down south, too.

Damn, Hill did catch Zambrano... My mind is doing funny stuff lately.

My mind is doing funny stuff lately.

Lay off the acid dude

Polish:

What the heck? Your girlfriend has favorite players who are CUBS?

Young man have you no pride? No self-respect?

Take a stand boy. Let her know who is wearing the team pants in the family!

Hahahaha, no, she's from Chicago and a huge Cub fan. I love her anyway.

Maddux is probably going, "Oh #$&$."

Son, mixed marriages are a dangerous thing. That and she's likely bi-polar. Massive mood swings are the trademark of any Cubs fan. And what happens when Prince treats Carlos like his personal b**** launching a few Fielder Specials? Who is going to suffer? You young man. Your needs will take a back seat to her need to lash out.

If you need a companion who is a tad strange go with a Madisonian. Get yourself a sweet, young hippy who thinks undergarments are optional.

Female Cubs fan? Is a more emotionally unstable creation possible???

This is stupid if only because Barrett was not the problem with the Cubs. As Mr. Richtingen says, he was just a scapegoat. The Cubs have problems they maybe could fix, but banishing a hitter like Barrett for nonentities isn't a fix.

Because of their track record of tarring and feathering players and dragging them out of Chicago on a rope, I tend to think the Cubs organization and everything around it is to blame for this. However, being a scapegoat is generally not reversible. Things having gone as far as they have with Barrett, as they did with Patterson, Hawkins, Sosa, and many others before him, they could probably only get worse. And when things get to that point, there may be no choice but to part ways. As I said, I find it hard to believe that this was the best way to do that, but it had to happen.

If Barrett had been in another organization, maybe things would never have gone this way. But they have, and there is no way to turn back time.

Female Cubs fan? Is a more emotionally unstable creation possible???

My wife is much more stable than I am. Fortunately, it helps that the main team I follow is in the AL (though I will root for the Dodgers).

Son, mixed marriages are a dangerous thing. That and she's likely bi-polar. Massive mood swings are the trademark of any Cubs fan. And what happens when Prince treats Carlos like his personal b**** launching a few Fielder Specials? Who is going to suffer? You young man. Your needs will take a back seat to her need to lash out.

If you need a companion who is a tad strange go with a Madisonian. Get yourself a sweet, young hippy who thinks undergarments are optional.

Female Cubs fan? Is a more emotionally unstable creation possible???

Its Cubs and Red Sox in our house, and yeah, it can be pretty manic. Both teams won last night, so life was good.

Andere:

Milwaukee has had its share of personality issues. But Melvin works mightily to keep such things "in house". When Scott Podsednik quit on Ned Yost in late 2004 Melvin got Ned to put Scott back on the field for September and then found a deal that offseason.

When Doug Davis ignored Mike Maddux last season as Davis struggled with his command Melvin bit his lip and made a deal that offseason. It wasn't a great deal in my estimation as Melvin underestimated the value of starting pitching in the marketplace but my guess is that DM was more focussed on getting Davis out of town.

Of course, Doug doesn't have a kajillion fans monitoring his every move. Just a few bloggers and an old crank out in the boonies!

Jack:

Talk to the lad. No good can come of this.

"Teams have been trying to make a catcher out of him for nine years."


Except when the Expos tried to make him a 3B. Dial mentioned it here recently, he was HORRID. I was there for the first game of the experiment. First play of the game was a room service grounder to 3rd, which he muffed in 3 different ways. Ugly.

This is just a hunch, but I see the Cubs going on a hot streak, getting back into the race, and this being credited as "turning the team around."

One of the few things Maddux has never done well is hold baserunners...

Neither does Chris Young. In fact, the whole Padres team seems to think preventing steals is the last thing a pitcher should worry about. They might even be right - this team has done a damn good job preventing runs. Barrett might not throw out another runner all year.

JC:

It's possible. The future schedule has some pretty tame competition except for the Rockies and the Brewers. (And to hear some Cubs fans the Brewers don't even count as competition. It's all about run differential dontchaknow? That Fielder guy is just another fatso who hits homers while Sheets arm is going to fall off any day now.)

So it could well happen.

Sheets looked great last night. Great night for the Brewers in general. I'm an idiot for staying up until 3:30 am to finish watching it (I'm not a big fan of the condensed game option). I feel like the rythm of the game is missing.

The Brewers are indeed a force, though.

I love the revisionist history that suddenly places all the blame on Barrett for Zambrano being a ######### in the clubhouse. Z pitched well since then, so let's blame Barrett!!

Jack:

It was like getting no-hit woke them out of the malaise that struck the team. Everyone wants to look at the schedule and just say it was playing better teams. But then how does that explain taking 4 of 6 from the Tigers/Twins? On the road no less?

The offense went into a stupor despite Fielder cranking out homers every third day. (He has 20 since May 1st) Over an 18 game stretch they scored 3 runs or less 12 times. While they did face some good pitching they were also punked by decidedly mediocre hurlers. For some reason a Yost team goes into this collective funk for about a month. The hope is that they have had their swoon and are now good to go.

We will see. Yost is keeping Hart at leadoff which helps. If Bill Hall can stay semi-hot and keep Estrada out of the five hole that will help. And Braun not having an Alex Gordon like transition REALLY helps. Nobody has seemed to notice this 23 year old being dropped into the three hole of the lineup and cranking out a .500 plus slugging percentage. Quite remarkable.

Anyway, back to the Barrett bashing.......

...as someone who snagged Braun last year and held onto him as minor league keeper, I am acutely aware and appreciative of just how well he's hit.

Milwaukee has had its share of personality issues. But Melvin works mightily to keep such things "in house".

Of course, it's probably easier to do that in Milwaukee, but the Cubs are horrible about this. And it's not just squabbles among the players, it's squabbles with the announcers, the fans, the umpires, the other teams. They're a bunch of drama queens.

To be fair, there was no way to keep the Barrett/Zambrano fight "in house," and ultimately the guy responsible for that situation was Zambrano, but I can understand how Barrett's boneheadedness would result in a boilover. The problem is that as Barrett's career has progressed, in some ways blossomed, but in many other ways he's taken steps backward. We've seen this too often with Cubs position players. In Barrett's case, you have all of the things mentioned in #54, and others, things that you never, ever see other ballplayers trying to do. I sometimes wonder if the Cubs clubhouse has old plumbing and the players become dumb from lead poisoning.

Barrett has not caught Zambrano since the fight, and two days after the fight, the Cubs brought up a real centerfielder. Those two facts have probably helped Z more than Barrett's jackassitude.

Probably. But I never heard <u>before</u> that spat that Barrett was Zambrano's problem. Now that he's a figurative corpse, everyone's in line to stick his head on a pike. Zambrano pitched fine to him last year, and the year before that. Did he all of a sudden forget how to do it? Or is he just a scapegoat?

Probably. But I never heard before that spat that Barrett was Zambrano's problem. Now that he's a figurative corpse, everyone's in line to stick his head on a pike. Zambrano pitched fine to him last year, and the year before that. Did he all of a sudden forget how to do it? Or is he just a scapegoat?

There have been general criticisms of Barrett as a catcher for a long time. Other than Maddux, who always complains about catchers (and second basemen, and...) I don't recall problems with specific pitchers and Barrett.

But then how does that explain taking 4 of 6 from the Tigers/Twins? On the road no less?

Well, Jim Leyland certainly helped with one of those, otherwise that's a .500 swing. Keep in mind I think the Crew is very good, and I hope and expect them to make the playoffs.

Andere:

I stated in the prior post that Melvin's environment was certainly more forgiving.

But when Podsednik quit on Yost he did so quite publicly. He openly failed to run hard and gave Ned a wave of the hand when Yost confronted him in the dugout. Sources had reports of Yost being restrained in the clubhouse after the game.

But nary a word from Melvin. For good or bad the whole thing was buried within 12 hours. Scott sat for a moment then started the rest of the season.

I think your point is well taken. Handled differently the negative impact could be contained........

Cubs runs per 9 innings:

Barrett 4.40
Blanco 4.39
Hill 2.28 (only 67 innings)

Its hard to see a case that Barrett is costing a lot of runs beyond his poor catch and throw skills. The Woolner study found no correlation with matched pairs of pitchers/catchers, and as far as I know where still looking for evidence of ability in this area.

But if he's such an A** his teammates can't stand him, I can understand the move. We in Angelland even have a word for it. Barrett just got Guillened.

Do you need a good reason to punch AJ Pierzynski?

Yes, you do. You can only punch him of you are sure that it's AJ Pierzynski. That qualifies as a good reason.

Probably. But I never heard before that spat that Barrett was Zambrano's problem.

It's been much discussed among Cubs fans for several years that Z was better with Blanco. For that matter, so was everybody. Most people just gave credit to Blanco and lived with Barrett because of his offense. Now that Z is pitching way better to the journeyman, Hill, fans are realizing that the issue may be more a negative for Barrett than just a positive for Blanco. Barrett's offense is no longer overshadowing his other notable flaws. This combines to give him scapegoat status.

Well, Jim Leyland certainly helped with one of those,

I disagree with this, and meant to comment in the thread on that game, but forgot. Your complaint was that, in the ninth inning, he let Craig Monroe and Mike Rabelo bat with the tying run on. I think Leyland's decision making was at least defensible.

If you pull Monroe in that spot, then why is he playing left field for you at all? Yes, he looked bad, as he has done frequently. However, being the starting left fielder is a statement that you want the guy at the plate in a key situation. The question isn't whether Monroe should have been left in to hit there; it's whether he should be replaced in the lineup on a regular basis. I'm getting close to that point, but I'm not quite there yet; I'm still thinking that I'd rather have Thames playing for Casey, the Mayor's recent hot streak notwithstanding. If Monroe is your left fielder, then you need to leave him in there.

Leaving Rabelo in was something that I'm sure Leyland never even thought twice about. He's extremely consistent that, when he gives Pudge a game off, he's giving Pudge the game off. If he pinch hits for Rabelo, and the game ends up tied, he can't give Pudge the game off. Correctly or incorrectly, Leyland is thinking longer term than just the current game here. Rabelo is in that game for good, regardless of the situation that comes up.

As I said, I think that Leyland's thinking is at least defensible in both cases.

In fact, the whole Padres team seems to think preventing steals is the last thing a pitcher should worry about.

I remember reading an interview with Pedro Martinez where he said he practically ignores a guy on 1B because he won't score if he can take care of the next batter.

It's been much discussed among Cubs fans for several years that Z was better with Blanco. For that matter, so was everybody. Most people just gave credit to Blanco and lived with Barrett because of his offense.

And it doesn't matter that there isn't any meaningful data to support this.

As happens over and over again in Cub Land, Michael Barrett will be shown to have had more value than his scapegoaters gave him credit for, and the Cubs will continue to be a mediocre organization.

To be fair, there was no way to keep the Barrett/Zambrano fight "in house,"

Are any of Barrett's problems things that could've been kept in house? The Hill confrontation was in the dugout. He punch AJ at home plate. The Oswalt crap was on field. His baserunning is on field. His defense is on field.

And it doesn't matter that there isn't any meaningful data to support this.

As happens over and over again in Cub Land, Michael Barrett will be shown to have had more value than his scapegoaters gave him credit for, and the Cubs will continue to be a mediocre organization.

Your second paragraph is so undeniably correct that it should be printed on the back of all tickets to Cubs games. As for your first sentence, don't confuse lack of data to support a premise with evidence that the premise is wrong.

As happens over and over again in Cub Land, Michael Barrett will be shown to have had more value than his scapegoaters gave him credit for

I'm amazed that anyone thinks a catcher could get in a major fistfight with his team's ace, and a public verbal altercation with another good starting pitcher and be kept around.

As for you good their scapegoated players are . . The Cubs traded Hawkins for Aardsma & Williams. Aardsma actually outpitched Hawkins last year. The Cubs actually got the better of that trade. Hawkins is on his third team since then.

Sosa was dreadful in his one year in Baltimore. The main guy they traded him for (Jerry Hairston) actually had a better OPS+ that year. Retired when no team offered him a MLB contract the next year. He's back now, and doing surprisingly good. Despite that, his OPS+ is 92 and he has no defensive value.

Corey Patterson was a good player last year. He had an OPS+ a little under 100, but he had 45 steals and great defense. This year, however, he's doing even worse than he did with the Cubs in 2005. His OPS+ is 46 & his average .210.

I don't want to defend the trades (well, actually I would defend the Hawkins trade) because the Cubs let Sosa & Patterson go for far less than they should've had they not driven down their player's value (and then there's the part where the Cubs pick up much of the $$), but your contention that these players have time & time again been shown to have "more value than scapegoaters gave [them] credit for" misses the fact that these guys really haven't been very good. Actually, I'm shocked at just how bad these guys have been since leaving the Cubs.

Chris:

Completely concur on Patterson. I was certain that given a chance and a fresh start he would churn out .260/.320/.450 seasons with the speed and defense. The O's have given him every opportunity, and he has gacked.

I can't disagree about Hawkins, but Hendry certainly could have gotten more for Sosa (or at least not had to give as much cash) had he not gone on a hypocritical tirade about Sosa walking out during the last game. I call it hypocritical because they then proceeded to retire the number of a player who quit one year in June.

As for Patterson, after announcing to the world that Patterson was crabby and uncoachable, they traded him for a bucket of balls. That was bad enough, but it precipitated the epically bad Juan Pierre trade. Pierre was worse and more expensive than Patterson, and one year of his suckitude cost three pitchers who are now on the Marlins big league roster.

Another guy they mishandled before trading was Farnsworth. Whatever you think of him, Hendry would have gotten more out of him if not for all the talk that he was a drunken malcontent.

It's a pattern. You can quibble with the details, but the pattern is still very troubling.

My mind is doing funny stuff lately.

Lay off the acid dude

There isn't any kind of drug involved, sadly.

I wouldn't want to defend the Sosa or Patterson trades. Farnsworth I think is defensible. They got Novoa for him. While Farsworth was far better in '05, Novoa was better (and far cheaper) in '06.

As for Pierre, that's a separate issue of Hendry overpaying for talent. Christ, he could've put Jones in CF & look for a corner man if he couldn't find a better CF.

Of all the trades, the Barrett one might be the most defensible. The Cubs ran down the others, but if Barrett didn't dig his own hole, then good Lord almighty, there is no such thing as duggen holes.

Actually, what's striking is how all the Cubs' head cases have fared since leaving. Farnsworth's on his second team. Hawkins is on his third. Sosa's on his second and was out of baseball. Patterson's completely imploding for a second time in three years. They do a bad job handling head cases, and great googley-moogley, do they ever collect headcases. They may have bottomed out with the Cubs (actually Patterson's bottoming out this year) but they have track records elsewhere that indicates they are problems.

As happens over and over again in Cub Land, Michael Barrett will be shown to have had more value than his scapegoaters gave him credit for, and the Cubs will continue to be a mediocre organization.

OK - I can buy the general thought, but I hardly expect that we're going to rue the day Barrett was shipped out of town. There are plenty of good examples of this -- Barrett is not one of the best.

I know it's always touchy to get into things we can't measure like chemistry and 'leadership' -- but really going back to the Oswalt fight, I think Barrett was/is a "hollow leader"... i.e., since he's a catcher and catchers are generally 'leaders' - Barrett would do or say things a 'leader' is expected to do... only, it would seem that no one really respected him in that regard. Sure - the Hill incident may well have been overblown, but it's representative of the core issue. The Oswalt incident was a perfect microcosm... Barrett starts a fight - normally when your 'leader' does something like that, one would expect it to 'light a fire' under the team. Instead, it lit a fire under the ASTROS while the Cubs went into the tank.

I'm not saying Barrett was worthless -- I don't recall anyone suggesting he be DFA'ed, but he was no longer worth the trouble. I suspect he'll be more Todd Walker post-trade than say... Mark Grace <strike>post-trade</strike> [ed: post messy FA break-up]. I mean, complete package -- offense, defense, age, contract, 'intangibles' -- where would Barrett rank in the NL? I have a hard time seeing him as much better than mid-pack... Hell - the Braves have TWO catchers on their roster I'd prefer.

Better examples of the larger issue -- LaTroy Hawkins, Corey Patterson, Sergio Mitre, and I'm sure plenty of other examples I can't think of. The Cubs over-estimate value on incoming players (thinking Jacque Jones was more than a platoon player, for example) and then fail to recognize value on players they ship out (failing to see Patterson as a plus CF defender with good SB skills and a fair bit of pop --- but who was NEVER going to be Carlos Beltran).

There are plenty of examples of Cub misestimation of value... but sorry - Michael Barrett isn't a good example.

Completely concur on Patterson. I was certain that given a chance and a fresh start he would churn out .260/.320/.450 seasons with the speed and defense. The O's have given him every opportunity, and he has gacked.

He did pretty much exactly that last year. Perhaps he needs another fresh start.

Typical Hendry trading a player at the bottom of his value. Presumably Bowen will be the starter with Koyie Hill backing him up until Blanco is healthy again. Burke is the usual highly drafted, high strike out guy that the Cubs always get in this kind of deal. I don't expect to ever see his name on an all-star ballot.

I second that emotion.

Barrett has become a scapegoat over the last few weeks, but not in the eyes of the Cubs brass; rather, it's Cubs fans who have turned on him. In that regard, he's more like LaTroy Hawkins than Corey Patterson.

But let's look at the bigger picture. Until this season, Barrett has been one of the best hitting players at his position, and although his defense has always been questioned, it never really came close to the point where folks were suggesting getting rid of him or moving him to another position. Indeed, apparently Greg Maddux stood behind Barrett, telling the Padres he'd be a great addition.

This season, his hitting has turned south. It's still a few months, however, and I for one am reluctant to say that it marks the beginning of a career decline. It's quite possible that Barrett can regain his hitting -- if not this year, then in the years ahead.

What has made him a scapegoat, though, has been his defense, poor instincts, and confrontations with the pitching staff. Of these, I have much more problems with the first two of these issues. Yes, I'd like to see a better defender behind the dish -- especially if Barrett isn't hitting anyway -- but it's only been recently that it's been cause to let him go.

I'm more disturbed by Barrett's lack of sense, both behind the plate (making ill-advised throws) and on the bases. These are fundamental errors that don't seem to be getting better in any way, and I'd be glad to see Barrett go just for this.

On the other hand, I really think the confrontations with the pitching staff are far overblown. I would be most surprised if Barrett was/is the only regular catcher to have disagreements -- even heated ones -- with his pitchers. The difference is that Barrett has had his issues in the dugout with the TV cameras on him, rather than behind the scenes.

What gets me, though, is that this is yet another instance of Hendry trading at a players lowest possible market value. Barrett has been a borderline All-Star catcher, yet all Hendry has gotten are yet another backup catcher and a toolsy low A outfielder. Now we have three back-ups, none who are known for their bats and the best defender being on the DL, possibly for the end of his career. Forget about 2007 -- what does Hendry plan to do about the position in 2008?

As for the minor leaguer, yes he was a supplemental 1st round pick, but he was brutal last year, roundly panned by John Sickels, and hasn't played well in low A ball this year. It could happen for him, but that can be said about almost anyone.

Thumbs down.

I'm amazed that anyone thinks a catcher could get in a major fistfight with his team's ace, and a public verbal altercation with another good starting pitcher and be kept around.

Apparently you don't remember a lot about the A's and Yankees teams of the 70s, whose players fought with each other quite frequently.

Apparently you don't remember a lot about the A's and Yankees teams of the 70s, whose players fought with each other quite frequently.

Yankees maybe, but I seem to recall that someone said of the A's (Reggie maybe?) that in Oakland they were all pretty much united by a common hatred of Finley.

Apparently you don't remember a lot about the A's and Yankees teams of the 70s, whose players fought with each other quite frequently.

Got me there.

How 'bout this. If you're going to get in a fistfight with one of the star's of your team, you better be doing pretty dang good yourself. Craig Nettles punched out Reggie Jackson to celebrate being named MVP of the ALCS, not when he threw the ball into center after allowing a past ball to let the winning run score in a game they lost by one.

In 1964 Frank Thomas got into a fist fight with Richie (then, later Dick) Allen. Guess which one got traded a week later. Unwritten rule of rule baseball, if two players can't get along, you don't trade the star.