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1. Juan V Posted: January 27, 2010 at 10:55 PM (#3448125)Damon is murderface.
Well, Jeter did get engaged. That's gonna drag down the team's numbers.
Really. I can't see the logic in dumping a proven Yankee Stadium hitter and signing a stiff who's never even been much of a hitter in a weaker league, unless it's just a case of Damon's trying to insist on a long term contract.
I guess the Yankees thought they scored too many runs last year. I have a feeling they will score a lot less in 2010.
They will probably give up a decent amount less too though (Replacing Vazquez, Joba and Hughes splitting time at #5, Marte being healthy). And for the first time in what feels like forever, they will have offensive help in AAA if they need it.
Its easy to look at the lineup and see a lot of question marks, but that's what the lineup looked like last year too. It may have a bit less upside than the year before, but I would bet its still going to be pretty formidable.
I think Damon was a big part of that. If you want to replace him to get better, fine. But it doesn't make sense to replace him with Randy Winn.
Brian Sabean, above average GM
Bruce Bochy, above average manager.
Damon wasn't coming back at a price the Yankees felt comfortable with. Why is that so hard for some people to understand?
I think I remember reading the Yankees were worried that if Damon came back at a huge paycut, he might not be that happy in the clubhouse.
They didn't replace Damon with Winn. They replaced Damon with Granderson, Matsui with Nick Johnson, and added Vazquez to what was essentially a 4 man rotation.
[edited to flip matsui and nick around]
I guess the main question is why they didn't work something out. Damon made sense for the Yankees, and the Yankees made sense for Damon. The Yankees settled for a lesser option, and Damon is now going to have to settle for a lesser team for less money.
Guess he doesn't want to go to Oakland.
Gut says that Boras use the Yankees and Damon (by keeping them apart) in order to drive up the price on Holliday. If Damon signs w/ the Yankees at a reasonable price at the beginning of the offseason, all the chips fall differently.
Especially scoring "on the road"...
And scoring "at home" will initially be up, but it will likely drop off precipitously after about a year or so.
SJ, you know I love you, but this is wrong. The number one thing everyone talked about was the Yankees spending $423.5 million. Damon's great clubhouse chemistry didn't seem the help much in 2008. It's funny how adding the top three available free agents in the 2009 offseason improved the chemistry so much.
Times traded for a manager?
I doubt Winn gets more than 250 PAs. Gardner will be the starter.
I'd have preferred Reed Johnson personally.
I think maybe a right handed OF that can mash a little bit more may have been a better fit for a platoon with Gardner, but Winn for 2 million seems like a pretty solid signing.
EDIT: Coke for RB (assuming its the right answer).
I may be misinterpreting your comment, but since there is a fair amount of Oakland-bashing elsewhere out there with respect to not being a desirable place for free agents, let me say: Lots of players seem to enjoy playing for the Oakland Athletics. Jason Giambi came back. Mark Ellis came back. Frank Thomas loved playing in Oakland. Eric Chavez loves it. Draft pick Max Stassi signed with the A's, when other teams thought he was un-signable, because he thinks they have a great organization. It's true they can't compete with NY or Boston for the best free agents, but that's true of most teams.
Also, for what it's worth, Damon inexplicably sucked during his one season in Oakland. He got props for riding his skateboard to the ballpark, but he hit like he throws.
Fans have Damon as +15 runs offensively, -7 runs defensively as a LFer, 2.2 WAR overall. They have Gardner as +1 run offensively, +9 runs defensively as mostly a CFer, 2.3 WAR overall.
The Fans are optimistic on Damon's offense, too: .359 wOBA. Marcel, CHONE & Bill James are all between .348 and .353.
Fans are pessimistic on Gardner, if anything: .331 wOBA, about the same as Marcel but lower than CHONE (.335) and Bill James (.347!).
Gardner is a decent bet to hit .270/.340/.380 with a ton of steals and awesome defense. The slugging sucks, but you gladly take the rest of the package. I'll gladly give him 500-600 PA this year.
And if you use him in a fairly strict platoon role at the plate while also using him as a pinch-runner and defensive replacement in high leverage situations, you probably enable yourself to get better value from him on a rate basis. Winn makes that easier to do.
Now Replacement Level has its mascot.
Depends on if you think that Winn's now a .158/.184/.200 hitter against lefties because of 125 PAs in 2009, or if you think that his 2007-2009 splits of .280/.326/.427 against lefties tells us more. Obviously, we have to factor in decline, but I generally side with the sample size.
C'mon, you watched this team, you know its true, they had fun. It was evident. I think Swisher had a lot to do with it too, but they had fun.
the Yankees won a ton in the decade, and really, they looked methodical. as if they didn't enjoy it. Except Robbie and Melky, who look like every morning is Christmas morning.
Gotta be most PA w/o reaching the postseason. Kind of ironic.
Also, for what it's worth, Damon inexplicably sucked during his one season in Oakland. He got props for riding his skateboard to the ballpark, but he hit like he throws.
Did he ride it from the BART station? Because that doesn't really count. If he rode in from say, Eastmont Mall, than I'd be impressed.
We moved to replacementlevel.com on Opening Day 2007, then as Larry mentioned we're dealing with issues there of late.
Sure. I just think that being the best team in baseball was more important than the fact that they were having fun.
I don't necessarily dispute this, but if it was true, wasn't Alex Rodriguez one of the chief 'offenders'? Do you think that he'll go back to being methodical and not having fun because Johnny Damon's gone?
If you're really going to worry about the clubhouse stuff, you should probably also consider the fact that Curtis Granderson has a very good clubhouse reputation.
Right now, I think the Yankees are pretty clearly the best team in baseball. I'm not sure what more we could ask for as Yankee fans.
What by signing Damon? How cheaply would Damon have to sign to be worthwhile for the Tigers?
They've already taken enough of a PR hit trading Granderson and signing Valverde with the money...if they spent more money on a worse CF (or would he play in LF and Raburn/Jackson play CF?) wouldn't this be asking for more disrespect from fans?
I think the Tigers are OK for OF/DH next year already with Guillen, Raburn, Maggs, Clete, Jackson, and whoever Leyland likes in spring training (if necessary - Wilkin Ramirez or Don Kelly for example).
THHHUUUUUHHHH YANK-EEES WINN!
(I hope I did it right)
I brought this up a couple of days ago. It would make some sense, but I doubt it will happen.
Oh God! We could have had Randy Winn instead of that atrophied seed pod, GMJr!!! Woe to all the saints!!!
How was that?
He would be a great option if he could play passable defense anymore.
(Hmm. Looks more like Jeff Kent, maybe?)
Isn't that Juan Pierre? Better D than Pierre at this point, I'm sure... still.
I don't get why the Yankees would decide to start having a budget when there's only one spot left to fill anyway, but, whatevs.
Jeff Bagwell, the leader in the category of "most linear negative correlation between salary and performance, year-to-year", isn't in the Hall yet, though.
I brought this up a couple of days ago. It would make some sense, but I doubt it will happen.
Not sure I agree. Considering defense, I'd rather have Chris Dickerson or a Dickerson / Balentien-Gomes platoon. Speaking of Gomes, I'm surprised he hasn't gotten more play this offseason.
Gardener-Granderson-Swisher, with Randy Winn as 4th OF?
The Yankee have a fine rotation in Sabathia-Burnett-Pettitte-Vazquez-JobaHughes, a good bull pen with a great closer, and strengths at Catcher, 1st, SS, 3rd, and DH (until Nick's next owie), and above average hitters in Center, RF and 2B.
So why am I peeved that they could not find a left fielder who can hit the way a corner outfielder is supposed to hit?
Would you feel any better if they switched Granderson and Gardner to LF and CF, respectively?
This strikes me as horrendous policy -- why move someone like Granderson for a bench player type? While I can buy Gardner being a better CF than Granderson, I can't buy him being 10+ runs better, or much close to that.
Granderson certainly hits like a corner OFer is supposed to against RH pitching. And he's played his entire career in a park that kills LH batters.
While I can buy Gardner being a better CF than Granderson, I can't buy him being 10+ runs better, or much close to that.
While we obviously need more data on Gardner's fielding to be sure of his true talent, to date he has given every indication (both visually and statistically) of having the potential to be a superlative defensive CFer. I could easily see him being 10 runs better than Granderson in CF over a full season.
In 2009, AL LF hit .267/.338/.442 for an OPS of 780. Curtis Granderson, in what everyone believes to be a pretty abysmal year for his talent, had that very same OPS. For his career, he's hit .272/.344/.484 with an OPS of 828. How exactly is that not hitting the way a corner outfielder is supposed to hit?
With average to above-average fielders in the Yankee outfield and LF and CF practically interchangeable, the view should be about aggregate production rather than making things look pretty or satisfying unnecessary whims, like having a heavy hitting LF. While I don't think it's a viable long-term strategy to ignore offense at less than premium positions, it's perfectly fine for the 2010 Yanks due to the team having an abundance of significantly above average offense at C, SS, CF (if Granderson plays there), and 2B while having average to above average offense in more traditional spots like 3B, 1B and RF.
I think you're underrating ARod and Tex a little there.
just a little
So essentially, when addressing the few holes the Yanks had this offseason, Cashman aimed for the cost-effective run prevention strategy. The rotation is greatly improved now that Javy is there and the outfield fielding is much better. Good offseason for Cashman.
which, by definition, includes both the real LF types who could hit, and the ones who get stuck there because a team can't do any better. With their $437 Million Payroll, the Yankees should be able to do better.
All-Stars? All-Stars?!?!?!
Yankee Fans aren't looking for crummy All-Stars!!!!
We expect, nay, we DEMAND, SuperStars all over the diamond.
Of course, I'm also starting to wonder if there will be a 2010 season for Damon...
What I mean is, why should this really matter when Granderson would have the same outfield counterpart in Gardner regardless? In most instances where a center fielder moves to a corner spot there's a perceived loss of "value" that really doesn't apply to the Yankees in this situation; Gardner and Granderson would both be in the lineup regularly. The bias about the appropriate output for a center fielder versus a left fielder doesn't actually change the Yankee offense.
Or was that Glenn Davis?
ANd everyone full of class.
All I wanted was a ****ing Pepsi. Met fans are silent because Randy Winn (about to get into the postseason) is getting paid more than the Mets are shelling out for GMJr.
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