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Thursday, September 26, 2013

Sporting News selects the most beloved player ever for each MLB team

Ripken, Pesky, Yogi, Longoria, Alomar
Thomas, Feller, Kaline, Brett, Puckett
Biggio, Salmon, Rickey, Edgar, I-Rod

Murphy, Conine, Seaver, Ashburn, Zimmerman
Santo, Rose, Yount, Clemente, Musial
Gonzalez, Helton, Fernando, Gwynn, Mays

Tim Salmon finally makes an All-Star team.

Gonfalon B. Posted: September 26, 2013 at 01:43 PM | 210 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: general

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   101. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: September 26, 2013 at 05:50 PM (#4551566)
Most despised for Rays fans is easily Vinny Castilla.

I thought it might have been Felix Martinez.
   102. esseff Posted: September 26, 2013 at 05:56 PM (#4551570)
Trying to think of the most-hated Cardinal. Neil Allen? Garry Templeton? Dick Allen? Surely I am forgetting some loathesome individuals.


J.D. Drew by default?


I think that if there were to be a poll of Cardinals fans today, the "winner" would be the guy who carried the team from 2001 to 2011, and that would be so wrong. But, man, was there ever a backlash when he left.
   103. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 26, 2013 at 05:58 PM (#4551571)
Do we still think Biggio didn't use steroids? Just look at him.
   104. alilisd Posted: September 26, 2013 at 05:59 PM (#4551573)
Oddly for the Padres it might be Garvey. Padres fans don't really hate players much, we're too laid back Lots of animosity for John Moores and Jeff Moorad, but not so much for players. There are plenty of fans who hate Garvey and the fact that Garvey's number was retired by the Padres (either inadvertently or unduly depending on which story you believe).
   105. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 26, 2013 at 06:00 PM (#4551574)
The Puckett selection is so pre-March 17, 2003. It has to be Mauer now, judging by the collective insanity exhibited by Twins fans during Mauer's last contract negotiation.
   106. Ray (RDP) Posted: September 26, 2013 at 06:03 PM (#4551577)
Gotta ask the inevitable follow-up question: Who is the most despised player for each MLB team?


For this all you have to do is look up the team's best player and see if the best player is also the most despised player, since there is a great tradition of blaming the team's best player for its problems.

For the Red Sox it's Roger Clemens.

For the Rangers it's ARod.
   107. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 26, 2013 at 06:18 PM (#4551588)
More focus on who is hated than beloved? Typical BBTF.
   108. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: September 26, 2013 at 06:21 PM (#4551592)
I enjoyed this article. It's very pleasant to look at an article (even a slideshow) and see a bunch of people who are widely liked.
   109. Monty Predicts a Padres-Mariners WS in 2016 Posted: September 26, 2013 at 06:22 PM (#4551594)
Oddly for the Padres it might be Garvey.


Padre fans who hate Garvey weren't around in 1984. My most-hated Padre is Jack Clark. Quit being mean to Tony Gwynn, ya dummy!
   110. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: September 26, 2013 at 06:25 PM (#4551599)
Thomas, Feller, Kaline, Brett, Puckett


What, no Mickey Stanley?
   111. tfbg9 Posted: September 26, 2013 at 06:53 PM (#4551626)
Mets: Vince Coleman?
Yankee fans speak disparagingly of "The Horace Clarke Yankees", which is why I mentioned him.
Stanley was right in the thick of a couple, at least, bad Sox memories.
   112. tfbg9 Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:07 PM (#4551641)
NY Giants: Fred Merckle.
   113. alilisd Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:09 PM (#4551642)
Padre fans who hate Garvey weren't around in 1984.


Like hell! I was at The Murph when he hit THE home run. But I despised him as a dodger and had no love for him as a Padre, and once his number was retired it festered deep within my soul. Any Padre fan who doesn't feel this is likely not a fan at all. ;-)

You may have a winner in Jack Clark though. Shows you how strong my hatred for Garvey is that I could have forgotten his inexcusable criticism of The Great Gwynn!
   114. alilisd Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:10 PM (#4551643)
What, no Mickey Stanley?


It's true! Tigers fans love Mickey Stanley!
   115. What Zupcic? Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:13 PM (#4551644)
Is Ryan Zimmerman is truly beloved by Nats fans beyond being good? Short tenure but I'd probably put Mike Morse above him.

Pesky wins for the sox but I think mike Lowell might give papi a run for his money. There's a vocal minority of sox fan who don't seem to like papi...
   116. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:30 PM (#4551662)
As a White Sox fan, it's a toss-up for me between Chick Gandil and Jaime Navarro.
   117. toratoratora Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:32 PM (#4551663)
I'm a bit surprised at the acceptance of Fernando as the most beloved Dodger. Since the article is sticking close to modern cities,I can see omitting Jackie Robinson,but I have to think Koufax would give Fernando a run for the money.
I know Koufax drops by spring training every year, does Fernando do anything with the Dodgers? Is he really more beloved by the franchise than a man who is generally spoken of with reverential tones?

Also,color me as being a touch bewildered by The Big Hurt being nominated for the ChiSox. For the life of me I can't think of a player. Aparacio? Maybe Veeck?
   118. WillYoung Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:38 PM (#4551669)
Who is the most despised player for each MLB team?


For the Twins, I would have to say Ron Davis, _elm_n, and Tommy Herr all rank highly.

The Puckett selection is so pre-March 17, 2003. It has to be Mauer now, judging by the collective insanity exhibited by Twins fans during Mauer's last contract negotiation.


Naw, Ray - it's still Kirby. Just read your very next comment. A whole lot of Twins fans grumble about Mauer for being a ##### singles hitter who is stealing money while always asking out of the lineup with made-up injuries.
   119. Steve Treder Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:39 PM (#4551670)
I know Koufax drops by spring training every year, does Fernando do anything with the Dodgers?

Fernando has long been a Spanish-language broadcaster for the Dodgers, traveling with the team and very visible at Dodger Stadium.

Dodgers fans can correct me if I'm wrong about this, but my sense is that Koufax vs. Valenzuela for the Dodgers is similar to Mays vs. McCovey for the Giants: the former is deeply revered for being such a fabulously great player, but the latter is just utterly beloved.
   120. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:41 PM (#4551672)
For the Red Sox, I think Jose Offerman should at least be in the discussion, although he might not beat Everett. For me personally it would be Jack Clark, though.

Most beloved is tough, but I think Pedro is at least in the running.
   121. toratoratora Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:43 PM (#4551673)
Thanks Steve. I can see that dramatically changing the situation.

ETA-My first thought for most hated Red Sox was Everett,but on reflection it should be Larry Andersen
   122. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 26, 2013 at 07:52 PM (#4551679)
Most despised for Seattle: Bobby Ayala?


Absolutely, no question. Ayala was despised while he was still with the team. A-Rod wasn't despised by the Seattle fanbase until after he left.
   123. DFA Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:01 PM (#4551683)
Most hated Oriole nominees:
Albert Belle
Mike Mussina (I think the #trader meme has begun to recede)
I suppose you could also make reference to guys like David Segui and Rafael Palmeiro given their PED questions.

I'm sure I'm forgetting some. If only Angelos donned a jersey...

And re: most loved Orioles, it's Brooksie for sure.
   124. thok Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:02 PM (#4551684)
I'm not really convinced that Rickey is the most beloved player in A's history. Respected, sure, but there are too many people who remember his third person speaking patterns and his behavior when breaking the stolen base record. Both McGwire and Eckersley would have been more beloved as A's, and that's just counting comtemparies.

The short list of recent hated A's includes Octavio Dotel, Arthur Rhodes, and Jeremy Giambi. I'd probably go with Dotel of those.
   125. OCF Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:10 PM (#4551691)
Trying to think of the most-hated Cardinal. Neil Allen? Garry Templeton? Dick Allen? Surely I am forgetting some loathesome individuals.

Dick Allen's time in St. Louis was actually a fairly positive experience. He did play well, and I don't remember any controversies. And when he was traded away, he wasn't dumped: that deal was business, not personal.

As for Templeton: there were three phases to his career from a Cardinal perspective. 1. Exiting young star; fun to watch. 2. Behavioral issues. 3. Traded away. It's easy to remember stage 1. And stage 3 casts a very warm glow because of who he was traded for. Yes, stage 2 is still there, but it didn't last all that long. So I don't think he makes "most hated."

There's no one alive who remembers Rogers Hornsby as a person; he's become his statistics.

What if you found some odd technicality that kept you from voting for Musial? Who would you pick then? I'd probably vote for Bob Gibson, but I'm not sure that "beloved" and "respected" are quite synonyms.
   126. Steve Treder Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:10 PM (#4551692)
Respected, sure, but there are too many people who remember his third person speaking patterns and his behavior when breaking the stolen base record.

Sure, but my sense is that Rickey's peculiar brand of goofiness is one of the things that makes him so lovable. Not just as a player, but as a person, there is no one else remotely like him. And, he was raised in downtown Oakland, a genuine local boy who made good.
   127. Dale Sams Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:17 PM (#4551696)
Pesky wins for the sox but I think mike Lowell might give papi a run for his money. There's a vocal minority of sox fan who don't seem to like papi...


Those same mouth breathers castigate Lowell for his last contract and vocally calling to be released.
   128. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:23 PM (#4551698)
There's no one alive who remembers Rogers Hornsby as a person; he's become his statistics.


The list isn't 'most beloved (or despised) player for the current fan base', it's 'most beloved (or despised) player ever'.
   129. Sleepy supports unauthorized rambling Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:28 PM (#4551703)
What if you found some odd technicality that kept you from voting for Musial?


Ozzie or Willie? My dad would probably vote for Red.

I don't know of anyone who harbors ill will towards Pujols.
   130. Select Storage Device Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:28 PM (#4551704)
Most despised for Rays fans is easily Vinny Castilla. Just about everyone here hates that guy.


I am going with Burrell.
   131. bookbook Posted: September 26, 2013 at 08:50 PM (#4551721)
If Jamie Moyer comes to be pitching coach for he Mariners, he'll probably surpass Edgar in popularity within a decade or so.

But Edgar is definitely the right pick at this moment.
   132. thok Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:07 PM (#4551732)
Sure, but my sense is that Rickey's peculiar brand of goofiness is one of the things that makes him so lovable.


You're confusing Rickey Henderson with Manny Ramirez.
   133. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:26 PM (#4551741)
I'm surprised nobody has questioned Rose. He always had and will have his share of fierce supporters, but even in his prime (I'm a little young to remember) my impression wasn't that he was universally beloved. He certainly hasn't become more popular since the Dowd Report.

Joe Nuxhall is easily the most beloved, but that's much more because of his broadcasting career. Based purely on playing career, Sean Casey and Ernie Lombardi have strong arguments.
   134. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:28 PM (#4551743)
What if you found some odd technicality that kept you from voting for Musial? Who would you pick then? I'd probably vote for Bob Gibson, but I'm not sure that "beloved" and "respected" are quite synonyms.


Tough call between Ozzie (possibly harmed by his distance from the organization in the TLR years), Brock (though again, seems more respected-than-beloved to me - but he retired long before I was alive), and...Willie McGee. My god do Cards fans love Willie McGee.
   135. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:33 PM (#4551750)
I'm surprised nobody has questioned Rose. He always had and will have his share of fierce supporters, but even in his prime (I'm a little young to remember) my impression wasn't that he was universally beloved.

The methodology seems a little sketchy. Rose may have stuffed the ballot box. Pete was beloved by Pete.
   136. flournoy Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:40 PM (#4551754)
So the next question... most hated opposing players for each team's fanbase.

The Braves are easy. Number two is Jim Leyritz. I can't stand the sight of that guy. But nobody will ever touch first place here: Kent Hrbek.
   137. Hank G. Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:41 PM (#4551756)
A lot of recency bias here -- Musial seems to be the earliest player listed.


Right. It's hard to believe that Clemente was more beloved than Honus Wagner was in his time.

Some players are kind of orphaned by franchise movement. Christy Mathewson and Walter Johnson to name a couple.
   138. Rob_Wood Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:42 PM (#4551757)

Clemente, Rose, Feller -- some of these picks are just bizarre
   139. bjhanke Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4551761)
Cardinal fans in general seldom hate their own players. As long as you try to play somewhat hard and don't make a point of TRYING to alienate fans, you're going to be OK here. We LIKED Dick Allen for the one year that he was here. Templeton is probably the best call, because of The Finger. Hornsby was not hated in STL, because he was the first superstar the franchise had had in the 20th century. He was defended. The blame for the 1927 departure was put on the front office. We also have fond memories of J. D. Drew. We got a player that we did not really have the draft slot to get, and then he got traded for Wainwright.

As for most beloved not named Musial, right now it would come down to Ozzie, Willie McGee, Lou Brock, Jim Edmonds and Yadier Molina. I'll go with Willie, since his belovedness is so much greater than his actual play warranted. Bob Gibson is admired, not beloved, as are Curt Flood and Ted Simmons. If you go back to the days that almost no one remembers personally any more, Sunny Jim Bottomly is a candidate. Joe Medwick was not liked, but I have no way to compare fan response to him to that for Templeton. - Brock Hanke
   140. AndrewJ Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:55 PM (#4551764)
I'm surprised Yogi beat out Gehrig and the Babe for the Yankees. I'm guessing lifetime achievement counts more than playing career.
   141. puck Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:56 PM (#4551767)
Most despised for Rays fans is easily Vinny Castilla.

For the Rockies, they have Galarraga and Walker as "also considered." Castilla is pretty high up on the beloved list.

Jeff Conine? Really?
   142. thok Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4551768)
I would have thought McGwire would be more beloved by Cardinals fans. Is it the steroids, or is he just not in the same neighborhood as Ozzie/McGee/Brock/Edmonds/Molina for random reasons?
   143. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:59 PM (#4551770)
Clemente, Rose, Feller -- some of these picks are just bizarre

Why would anyone have a problem with Bob Feller? High school kid comes out of a corn field to pitch at an All-Star level; enlists immediately after Pearl Harbor; serves honorably as a naval gunnery officer; returns (just about) as good as ever; Hall of Fame career with one team; gives his autograph freely and without charge for decades; and appears at numerous baseball events in Cleveland and elsewhere.

Not sure why Clemente is a surprise, either. Hones Wagner is too far removed from today's fans.
   144. puck Posted: September 26, 2013 at 09:59 PM (#4551771)
I'm a bit surprised at the acceptance of Fernando as the most beloved Dodger. Since the article is sticking close to modern cities,I can see omitting Jackie Robinson,but I have to think Koufax would give Fernando a run for the money.

I know Koufax drops by spring training every year, does Fernando do anything with the Dodgers? Is he really more beloved by the franchise than a man who is generally spoken of with reverential tones?


"Beloved" has a different connotation than "greatest" player and the like. It would absolutely not surprise me if it's Fernando. It would not surprise me if Koufax weren't #2 or #3. Though I don't live in LA, so maybe I'm way off.

As for current contact with the team-isn't he on one of the broadcast teams, maybe radio?
   145. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 26, 2013 at 10:36 PM (#4551824)
If you go back to the days that almost no one remembers personally any more, Sunny Jim Bottomly is a candidate. Joe Medwick was not liked, but I have no way to compare fan response to him to that for Templeton. - Brock Hanke


What about Dizzy Dean?
   146. Rob_Wood Posted: September 26, 2013 at 10:50 PM (#4551837)

As most know, Clemente was very far from beloved during his active career, especially his early years. First the 1971 World Series, and then his heroically tragic death transformed his image to that of an icon. But he was never beloved.

Feller was an annoying dick throughout his entire career. I have relatives in Cleveland and he was never very popular there. After he retired he took on a different hue, but he was still a dick. I met him in the 1960's when he gave autographs at the local Dog & Suds where he was mildly dickish. I met him years and years later at a SABR event and he was mildly dickish. Feller would not be in the top 100 of most popular Cleveland Indians.
   147. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: September 26, 2013 at 10:55 PM (#4551843)
Not sure why Clemente is a surprise, either. Hones Wagner is too far removed from today's fans.


Pops
   148. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: September 26, 2013 at 11:01 PM (#4551851)
What about Dizzy Dean?

Indeed. Diz wasn't beloved by Branch Rickey or Sam Breadon or Detroit fans or various English teachers throughout the land, but to everyone else he was every bit as beloved in his time as even Stan the Man was during his playing career.
   149. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: September 26, 2013 at 11:06 PM (#4551857)
Feller was an annoying dick throughout his entire career. I have relatives in Cleveland and he was never very popular there. After he retired he took on a different hue, but he was still a dick. I met him in the 1960's when he gave autographs at the local Dog & Suds where he was mildly dickish. I met him years and years later at a SABR event and he was mildly dickish. Feller would not be in the top 100 of most popular Cleveland Indians.

That may be putting it a bit strongly, but Bob Feller is a case of a player who simply outlived most of the people who remembered him when he was more of a standard issue dick and less of a semi-cuddly curmudgeon. His service career helped him, and he got bonus points for volunteering right after Pearl Harbor instead of waiting a year to be drafted, but it wasn't as if he was the only ballplayer who saw combat in World War II.
   150. SouthSideRyan Posted: September 26, 2013 at 11:52 PM (#4551886)
[62] There's no way Edmonds could be most hated Cub. He was a reviled opponent, but he was the best hitter on the team once he showed up There's no reason to hate him as a Cub.
   151. Depressoteric Posted: September 26, 2013 at 11:53 PM (#4551888)
Most despised Mariner is a pick 'em between: Bobby Ayala, Chone Figgins, Horacio Ramirez, and maybe Jeff Cirillo.

But those guys are only jostling for 2nd place, because far outstripping them all is A-Rod.
   152. SoSH U at work Posted: September 27, 2013 at 12:13 AM (#4551902)

Any guys who have a prayer - or even just belong on the shortlist - for most beloved for multiple orgs?


Nolan Ryan would be at least in the running for three orgs.
   153. Jim Kaat on a hot Gene Roof Posted: September 27, 2013 at 12:35 AM (#4551909)
Cardinal fans in general seldom hate their own players.


True, but a fairly recent exception was Tino Martinez - and rightly so IMO.
   154. Bruce Chen's Huge Panamanian Robot Posted: September 27, 2013 at 12:37 AM (#4551910)
Trying to think of the most-hated Cardinal. Neil Allen? Garry Templeton? Dick Allen? Surely I am forgetting some loathesome individuals.


J.D. Drew, Colby Rasmus, Tino Martinez, and many others. We Cardinals fans are a hateful bunch.
   155. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 27, 2013 at 01:20 AM (#4551922)
Any guys who have a prayer - or even just belong on the shortlist - for most beloved for multiple orgs?

Pete Rose is pretty beloved by Phillies fans. I keep encountering people who think he's somewhere on the Phillies career leaderboard for something or other, as if he wasn't ALMOST 38 YEARS OLD when he joined the team. Maybe on the shortlist of retired players, given Phillies fans' tendency to hate everyone.
   156. Rob_Wood Posted: September 27, 2013 at 01:43 AM (#4551926)

be sure that I greatly admire and respect feller for his military service -- it wasn't called the greatest generation for nothing
   157. jobu Posted: September 27, 2013 at 01:44 AM (#4551927)
I'm not really convinced that Rickey is the most beloved player in A's history. Respected, sure, but there are too many people who remember his third person speaking patterns and his behavior when breaking the stolen base record. Both McGwire and Eckersley would have been more beloved as A's, and that's just counting comtemparies.

The short list of recent hated A's includes Octavio Dotel, Arthur Rhodes, and Jeremy Giambi. I'd probably go with Dotel of those.


Most beloved Oakland A's player: I would go with Rickey, but McGwire and Eck have cases. For beloved above actual value, I think Mark Ellis would get some consideration. Smoke Stewart.

A problem the A's have in this regard is no star plays there for a whole career. I am at a loss to think of a single very good player who played his whole career with the A's in any city. Rudi, Bando, Campy, Catfish, Vida all had traits of a "most beloved" but parted too suddenly and with some acrimony. Given the short tenure of a lot of even the star players, players like Matt Stairs and Mike Norris resonate more than they would with most teams.

Most despised: I would say Jeremy Giambi. There are some guys like Rob Picciolo and Wayne Gross that represent the post-free agency futility that hit the A's harder than other franchises.

I love the suggestion of Nolan Ryan as someone who would be on the short list for 3 franchises--and also on the short list of worst trades ever for a 4th.
   158. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: September 27, 2013 at 01:54 AM (#4551930)
Feller was an annoying dick throughout his entire career. I have relatives in Cleveland and he was never very popular there. After he retired he took on a different hue, but he was still a dick. I met him in the 1960's when he gave autographs at the local Dog & Suds where he was mildly dickish. I met him years and years later at a SABR event and he was mildly dickish. Feller would not be in the top 100 of most popular Cleveland Indians.

That may be putting it a bit strongly, but Bob Feller is a case of a player who simply outlived most of the people who remembered him when he was more of a standard issue dick and less of a semi-cuddly curmudgeon. His service career helped him, and he got bonus points for volunteering right after Pearl Harbor instead of waiting a year to be drafted, but it wasn't as if he was the only ballplayer who saw combat in World War II.


Feller was always a prickly pear and never "beloved" by Indians fans at all. Rocky would be a much better choice, or (believe it or not) Andre Thornton
   159. china_dave Posted: September 27, 2013 at 01:56 AM (#4551931)
Phils:

As mentioned earlier, the Phillie fan experience is odd in that some of the most hated players (at least among a vocal minority) have been some of the best players to play for the team: Schmidt, Jimmy Rollins, Dick Allen, Bobby Abreu. Others:

Billy Wagner- disliked for his late season blown saves, but only hated once he (1) left for the Mets and (2) trashtalked Pat Burrell while in a pennant chase. I think the point of this exercise is to figure out who was hated by a team's fans while they were still with the team, so I don't think wagner really counts.

Scott Rolen: Someone mentioned earlier that it is nonsensical for Phillie fans to hate him, but he forced a trade off the team, and did so largely through the local media. Putting aside the issue of whether or not his complaints had validity, for a fan of that team to hate the guy seems like a pretty reasonable response (to the extent that it is reasonable to "hate" any pro athlete for playing the game a certain way)

Lance Parrish

If J.D. Drew is in play, so too is Jeff Jackson. For purely symbolic reasons, poor guy.
   160. Walt Davis Posted: September 27, 2013 at 02:00 AM (#4551932)
But who would be the Indians pick if not Feller? Vizquel? Colavito? Oscar Gamble's fro?

Somewhat the same with Rose. OK, he's hated as much as beloved probably but who else? Perez or Concepcion? Larkin?

The Thomas pick is surely off ... as mentioned Baines and Minoso are more realistic choices.

Santo vs. Banks is a tough one to call these days for the reasons mentioned. If you were my generation, it was Banks and my initial reaction was "where's Banks?" But Santo's broadcasting career -- and particularly that he was a fan's fan who loved the Cubs even more than we do, that his heartbreaking trek to the HoF mirrored the Cubs own futility -- might have put him ahead, especially among anybody who became a fan sometime after Banks retired. Still Banks is Mr. Cub for a reason. And I suppose you could argue that broadcasters should be ineligible or at least adjusted for in some way as they have an unfair advantage.

My personal most-despised Cub is George Frazier. More generally, "despised" should be limited to players who were with a team for some extended period, say at least 5-6 seasons (which rules out Frazier). They're much harder to find that way. Genuinely unpopular players are usually dumped. It would probably have to be a bad FA signing, a heart-breaking FA exit or somebody who bad-mouthed the fans on the way out. Nobody's springing to mind although the Cubs throwing Sosa under the bus might have worked. Soriano is another potential choice but, as we've noted elsewhere, he was a good citizen while there and the fans don't seem to despise him. Now ... despised GMs ... we've got plenty of Cub candidates for that role.

I suppose Aaron is more revered than beloved and/or he has essentially transcended "Brave". But ... isn't he still with the team and isn't he still trotted out whenever the team needs a PR polish? On the other hand, lots of fans nationwide came to love Murphy in the early TBS years.

I suppose Pesky still wins but I didn't notice anybody here even mention Yaz. Glad to see Buckner's not the most hated.

   161. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: September 27, 2013 at 02:07 AM (#4551934)
Ah. Here's a Dodgers despised: Andruw Jones.
   162. Rob_Wood Posted: September 27, 2013 at 03:45 AM (#4551939)

colavito is my pick for indians

dave smith is my vote for one year despised cub
   163. Brian C Posted: September 27, 2013 at 04:03 AM (#4551942)
Where would Thome be on the Indians beloved list? He seems to be an extremely well-liked guy in general.
   164. vortex of dissipation Posted: September 27, 2013 at 04:52 AM (#4551949)
But who would be the Indians pick if not Feller?


Well, Cleveland has had two players that the team was supposedly named after, in different incarnations, Louis Sockalexis (supposedly), and Nap Lajoie (certainly).
   165. Dr. Vaux Posted: September 27, 2013 at 06:19 AM (#4551957)
Who's the Tigers' most hated? I haven't lived in Detroit since I was 14, so I'm not really up on that.
   166. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: September 27, 2013 at 06:46 AM (#4551961)
Feller was always a prickly pear and never "beloved" by Indians fans at all. Rocky would be a much better choice, or (believe it or not) Andre Thornton

Definitely Colavito, who not only was the Greek Italian God of Cleveland, but then became a martyr second only to Jesus after he was traded for a mess of pottage singles hitter whose BA then dropped 45 points.
   167. OsunaSakata Posted: September 27, 2013 at 07:47 AM (#4551982)
Some players are kind of orphaned by franchise movement. Christy Mathewson and Walter Johnson to name a couple.


Musial goes the furthest back of anyone. Even Babe Ruth is not on the Yankees list. If the Nats list were a Washington list, Frank Howard would supplant Ryan Zimmerman. Here's a cool link of Walter Johnson doing radio play-by-play in 1939:
http://archive.org/download/OTRR_WJSV_Complete_Day_Singles/WJSV_Complete_Broadcast_Day_39-09-21_-1600-1717_Baseball_-_Cleveland_at_Washington.mp3

Most hated in Washington? That's easy. Dan Snyder.
   168. Cooper Nielson Posted: September 27, 2013 at 08:10 AM (#4551986)
After this season, I'm convinced that Mariano Rivera should appear on this list 30 times.

Who's the Tigers' most hated? I haven't lived in Detroit since I was 14, so I'm not really up on that.

I was wondering about this too. Usually the most hated guys are (i) expensive flops; (ii) guys who didn't stick around or otherwise "disrespected" the fan base; or (iii) relievers.

Right now there's a lot of hate for Jose Valverde, but that didn't really start until last October. Juan Gonzalez surely gets votes for reasons (i) and (ii). Fernando Rodney and Kyle Farnsworth were not popular.

I know a lot of people who irrationally hated Ryan Raburn, but I don't understand that at all.

Gary Sheffield was expensive and not great with the Tigers, but he was old and I think fans had the sense that he tried hard. I don't sense a lot of hate there.

Most of the Tigers' expensive flops were not hated because they were seen as nice-enough guys, like Damion Easley, Dmitri Young, and Magglio Ordonez (who was quite beloved before he was ever seen as an expensive mistake). Prince Fielder may join this list soon.
   169. They paved Misirlou, put up a parking lot Posted: September 27, 2013 at 08:15 AM (#4551988)
(i) expensive flops; (ii) guys who didn't stick around or otherwise "disrespected" the fan base; or (iii) relievers.

Right now there's a lot of hate for Jose Valverde, but that didn't really start until last October. Juan Gonzalez surely gets votes for reasons (i) and (ii)


I would think that Juan Gone would be well liked for rejecting the Tigers huge offer given how he completely fell apart after only 1 more good year.
   170. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 27, 2013 at 08:32 AM (#4551998)
Where would Thome be on the Indians beloved list? He seems to be an extremely well-liked guy in general.

For his relatively brief period of time here, Phillies fans love them some Jim Thome. In addition to his down to earthness (stopping to speak to the construction guys on his way to the signing press conference), he was the sign that management was really going to try.
   171. just plain joe Posted: September 27, 2013 at 08:32 AM (#4551999)
Does that make Neifi the only guy despised for multiple teams?


Well, if you want to go historical, then Rogers Hornsby probably makes the list. Hornsby apparently had the god-given talent to alienate nearly everyone he interacted with.
   172. gwynn1984 Posted: September 27, 2013 at 08:47 AM (#4552008)
For players on the short list for multiple teams - how about Gary Carter?
   173. Rennie's Tenet Posted: September 27, 2013 at 08:52 AM (#4552011)
As most know, Clemente was very far from beloved during his active career, especially his early years. First the 1971 World Series, and then his heroically tragic death transformed his image to that of an icon. But he was never beloved.


Unless you're confining the word "beloved" to mean cuddly, Clemente was an authentic hero in Pittsburgh by the mid-sixties. The rest of the country may have caught up by 1971.
   174. SandyRiver Posted: September 27, 2013 at 09:28 AM (#4552032)
For active career only, I agree with Kirby for the Twins (assuming a disconnect from Walter J's Senators), but if the post-retirement body of work is added, Killer might be in the picture.

For the Brooklyn Dodgers, Gil Hodges. He has some weight in the Mets conversation as well.

How will Mariano and Jeter fit in the Yankee picture? Spahnie for the Braves?

Is any team's "beloved" more slam-dunk than The Man?
   175. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 27, 2013 at 09:32 AM (#4552038)
Is any team's "beloved" more slam-dunk than The Man?

Richie Ashburn might be for the Phillies, both for his great, if not The Man Great, career and 30-odd years of homespun announcing. Lordy, he and Harry Kalas were a dream pair in the broadcast booth.
   176. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: September 27, 2013 at 09:43 AM (#4552051)

I don't know of anyone who harbors ill will towards Pujols.


Really? Really?? Really? I know lots of Cards fans who relish in his failure in Anaheim. I don't blame them necessarily, its a perfectly natural response, and it helps that the Cards have still been successful while Pujols has struggled, but I'd say there was and still is some ill will.

Which reminds me, Johnny Damon is pretty high on the hated list in KC.
   177. BDC Posted: September 27, 2013 at 09:54 AM (#4552062)
Richie Ashburn might be for the Phillies

Agreed. Philly fans, despite their image, are capable of having very strong favorites. Ashburn spanned several generations and nobody had a bad word to say about him, but there are other examples like Greg Luzinski, Tug McGraw, and Garry Maddox. Julius Erving is a non-baseball example. As I perceived it over the years, Philadelphia fans can even be fond of guys who are unpopular everywhere else, like Steve Carlton or Allen Iverson. But then they boo Mike Schmidt. And Santa Claus.
   178. Morty Causa Posted: September 27, 2013 at 09:59 AM (#4552068)
Bob Feller had character, and it was never more evident than when he was player representative lobbying. He did that thankless job with intelligence and dignity. He'll always get extra points, and extensive alibi-ing, from me for that and (especially) for his war service, and for the way he went about serving without regret, and then coming back and allowing Bill Veeck in sideshow impresario mode to turn him into one of Barnum and Bailey freak show--I mean, 371 innings after a layoff off of almost four years. I'll always believe this irresponsible of Feller immediately had a lot to do with Feller losing his speed prematurely and precipitously. But if he ever expressed regret or bitterness over any of this, he kept it to himself. Where Colavito whined and complained forevermore.

   179. JL Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:21 AM (#4552094)
Most of the Tigers' expensive flops were not hated because they were seen as nice-enough guys, like Damion Easley, Dmitri Young, and Magglio Ordonez (who was quite beloved before he was ever seen as an expensive mistake). Prince Fielder may join this list soon.


I think this is correct. In defense of Magglio, he was solid and arrived at a time when the franchise was pretty low. He played on the 2006 team that made the WS and followed it up with a really great year (Batting title of 363 and a 7.3 WAR). No bargain, but I don't think he is viewed as a flop.

I would think that Juan Gone would be well liked for rejecting the Tigers huge offer given how he completely fell apart after only 1 more good year.


That was my first thought as well.

Cobb is the easy choice for the Tigers, but he is so far in the past (and was so great for the team) that I don't think any one really hates him. Beyond that, I really can't think of anyone.
   180. Charles S. will not yield to this monkey court Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:38 AM (#4552125)
If AG1F is right and Neifi wins most despised Royal -- and while other names have been mentioned, I feel pretty sure Neifi would win for the Cubs... Does that make Neifi the only guy despised for multiple teams? Heredia is another candidate.


I'm not buying the widespread Neifi hate. Sure, Baker played him too much, but when I think of Neifi, I think of his home run to get the Cubs into the 1998 playoffs. Granted, he wasn't with the Cubs at the time, but that outweighs a lot of the Neifi being Neifi during the Baker era. I have to go with Hundley.

My friends and I always semi-jokingly make guesses as to whom Cubs fans will make the "designated dark-skinned scapegoat" for the year. Guys like Hawkins, Jacque Jones, Marmol, Soriano, Sosa and Heredia have filled the role, but Todd Hundley was the only white scapegoat in recent years. His contract, performance and overall demeanor on and off the field just made him eminently dislikable.
   181. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:41 AM (#4552129)
From a Blue Jays' fan perspective:

Alomar - definite option, though he wasn't really easy to "connect" with, in my opinion
Delgado - big smile, warm personality, run producer, team captain-type, but his departure muddied his legacy a little (not through his own doing)
Carter - likeable but I don't think his run was long enough to be the franchise m.b.p.
Halladay - respected & admired but too intense to be beloved
Stieb - see Halladay

Tony Fernandez gets my vote -- soft-spoken, graceful and a player who was part of the team both for parts of three decades
   182. gwynn1984 Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:44 AM (#4552136)
Is any team's "beloved" more slam-dunk than The Man?


I think so, but I may be biased (check out my screen name).
   183. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:47 AM (#4552142)
Re: Tigers most hated, Jeff Weaver might be a good shout. Also, some of the guys mentioned above had their rough moments with Detroit fans, but I don't remember a Tiger player ever getting booed like Brandon Inge did by the end of his tenure.

Re: Expos most beloved, I'm pretty sure it's The Hawk.
   184. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:53 AM (#4552154)
Guys like Hawkins, Jacque Jones, Marmol, Soriano, Sosa and Heredia have filled the role, but Todd Hundley was the only white scapegoat in recent years. His contract, performance and overall demeanor on and off the field just made him eminently dislikable.

I guess Brant Brown doesn't count as a scapegoat because he actually deserved the blame.
   185. NattyBoh Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:56 AM (#4552159)
That's way offbase for the Orioles. Brooks is far more beloved than Cal.


For the O's it would be Brooks then Cal and then maybe Rick Dempsey. Most despised Bird would probably be on of their crappy pitchers during their drought, Sidney Ponson maybe.

Yankees most despised of recent vintage would be Carl Pavano. Mention him to someone complaining about A-Rod and then listen. There was nothing but pure vitriol for good old Ed "Longball" Whitson, but he was only there for a couple of seasons.

   186. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: September 27, 2013 at 10:57 AM (#4552161)
Most despised Bird would probably be on of their crappy pitchers during their drought, Sidney Ponson maybe.

I seem to recall a lot of bile directed at Scott Erickson. He was the Pavano of his day.

***

On the topic of the Tigers, there seem to be a lot of potential pitchers, but no hitters. What about Phil Nevin? He combined "ill-mannered lout" and "highly-touted bust", though they didn't exactly give up a king's ransom to get him.
   187. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: September 27, 2013 at 11:25 AM (#4552188)
Where would Thome be on the Indians beloved list?


The Indians fans I know generally hate him, still, for leaving (he apparently had talked about how much he loved the city and wanted to stay, but, then, took a slightly higher payday than stay in Cleveland).

Though, by this kind of criteria, I'm sure the most despised person in Cleveland is LeBron.
   188. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: September 27, 2013 at 11:33 AM (#4552199)
Phil Nevin has actually managed in the Tigers system a coupla times (he got axed again last week). I don't think there's much animosity towards him.
   189. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: September 27, 2013 at 11:36 AM (#4552203)
Seconding whoever suggested Ruben "Village Idiot" Sierra as the most despised Oakland A's player. He was the face of some bad A's teams, suffered in comparison to Jose Canseco, and complained to the press when management asked him to take more walks.

   190. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: September 27, 2013 at 11:39 AM (#4552208)
Seconding whoever suggested Ruben "Village Idiot" Sierra as the most despised Oakland A's player. He was the face of some bad A's teams, suffered in comparison to Jose Canseco, and complained to the press when management asked him to take more walks.

Didn't he also complain that the clubhouse and front office culture in Oakland was too focused on winning?
   191. VoodooR Posted: September 27, 2013 at 11:46 AM (#4552218)
I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, but my least favorite Cub is a slam dunk: Alex Gonzalez. Moises Alou would be in the mix as well.
   192. Edmundo got dem ol' Kozma blues again mama Posted: September 27, 2013 at 12:00 PM (#4552233)
Moises Alou would be in the mix as well.

What, did he shake hands with you?
   193. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: September 27, 2013 at 12:44 PM (#4552268)
As others have mentioned, Koufax is revered more as a god like figure in LA than he is beloved. Fernando is the favorite son, though.

Really, the most beloved Dodger is not a player. There is no one that Dodger fans will ever love more than Vinny. Fernando and Sandy come close, though.

I would venture to guess that the next closest guy to that group is Hershiser.
   194. Brian C Posted: September 27, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4552313)
I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, but my least favorite Cub is a slam dunk: Alex Gonzalez.

He never really bothered me. He had his big semi-overlooked NLCS error, but overall he was a pretty cromulent shortstop with decent range and occasional power. The Cubs have done so much worse so often in the middle infield that it's hard to hate him. Let's not forget that his departure ushered in the Neifi Era.

Plus, he was acquired for nothing (traded for Felix Heredia) and was traded away (in the Nomar deal) before he became real deadweight. No real harm done, and there was enough NLCS blame to go around.
   195. Canker Soriano Posted: September 27, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4552317)
I can't believe this hasn't been mentioned yet, but my least favorite Cub is a slam dunk: Alex Gonzalez. Moises Alou would be in the mix as well.

As culpable as they were in the fiasco of Bartman, I find it hard to hate anyone more from the last 15 years than LaTroy Hawkins. His back and forth closer disasters, combined with his whining about the fans not loving him despite the many blown leads, puts him at the top.

Assuming we're just talking players, of course. Dusty Baker will forever be at the top of the list for associated personnel of any kind.
   196. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: September 27, 2013 at 02:03 PM (#4552366)
For O's fan while the actual fanbase may love Brooks more, Cal is more widely known. Everybody knows him regardless of if they ever watched a game in their life.

For the Pirates, every person I've ever met from Pittsburgh thinks Clemente is practically a god. They will try to argue he is a top 10 all time player.
   197. Gonfalon B. Posted: September 27, 2013 at 02:29 PM (#4552401)
Didn't [Ruben Sierra] also complain that the clubhouse and front office culture in Oakland was too focused on winning?

It was the Yankees. "All they care about is winning" was Sierra's going-away quote after being traded to the Tigers.
   198. puck Posted: September 27, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4552442)
Scott Rolen: Someone mentioned earlier that it is nonsensical for Phillie fans to hate him, but he forced a trade off the team, and did so largely through the local media. Putting aside the issue of whether or not his complaints had validity, for a fan of that team to hate the guy seems like a pretty reasonable response (to the extent that it is reasonable to "hate" any pro athlete for playing the game a certain way)


Didn't a lot of Rolen's issues come from his relationship with Bowa?
   199. SoSH U at work Posted: September 27, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4552472)
Todd Hundley was the only white scapegoat in recent years. His contract, performance and overall demeanor on and off the field just made him eminently dislikable.


And don't forget about his detachable children.

   200. just plain joe Posted: September 27, 2013 at 04:05 PM (#4552498)
My friends and I always semi-jokingly make guesses as to whom Cubs fans will make the "designated dark-skinned scapegoat" for the year. Guys like Hawkins, Jacque Jones, Marmol, Soriano, Sosa and Heredia have filled the role, but Todd Hundley was the only white scapegoat in recent years. His contract, performance and overall demeanor on and off the field just made him eminently dislikable.


I would say that Starlin Castro is a lock for this year's award, no one else would come close.
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