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Nice call, ##########.
Cocoa: check.
Comfy easy chair: check.
settles in
Okay, Yankees fans: let 'er rip.
Bully for them.
One of the worst votes in history. And this has to be the worst year in the history of the MVP Award. For both leagues' awards to go so obviously and completely wrong is unprecedented. Isn't it?
(God, I hate that guy)
Jeter really shouldn't have gotten it either (but he would have been a better choice)
Like it's been said before; Morneau was the third best player on the damn Twins behind their starting catcher and ace pitcher!
I think he's moved on to Jessica Biel by now.
Wait until the 2007 MVPs go to Chone Figgins and David Eckstein.
1987.
I think he's moved on to Jessica Biel by now.
so I hate him even more(neau)
I never, ever thought I'd say this, but I actually feel a little bit bad for Jeter.
Because he had a great year, his team won the division, and wouldn't have without him. He anchored the offense of a division winner that had to have a power bat in his spot.
You could take Jeter off the Yankees, plug ARod in to play SS, and the Yankees wouldn't miss a beat.
George Bell, a poor defensive LF hitting 308/352/605 while choking during that horrible last week vs Alan Trammell, a good defensive SS hitting 343/402/551 who hit well when his team needed him to in order to beat the Jays.
Andre Dawson, a decent defensive RF hitting 287/328/568 for a last place team vs Ozzie Smith, one of the best defensive SS ever hitting 303/392/383 for a first place team. There also was Tim Raines going 330/429/526 in LF for the Expos and many other quality players who should've been a mile ahead of Dawson.
Two MVP winners who had no argument at all for winning outside of RBI's.
Strangely, no. And I think the reason is that there is no obvious person that I think the voters ripped off in this case. There were a bunch of pretty much equally deserving candidates, any of whom you could make a reasonable case for, and I don't feel like there was a particular one of them who got cheated in favor of Morneau. In the NL, I felt like they did Pujols an injustice, and Howard should pay for that.
I've calmed down, though. I don't want his career to crash and burn any more -- but I do want him to lose out on something he really deserves to make up for it. Maybe a really bad call next year that costs the Phils the NL East in favor of the Mets. Yeah, that'd do it . . . . ;-)
Just because he's a serial mow-er?
I would like to work up a Sam-like rage for it, but I really sort of expected it, so that takes the edge off.
Maybe Captain Supporter can show up, and give us a good froth-at-the-mouth post.
Amazing.
The only regret I have is that who voted for whom isn't published, so that we can't automatically discount anything written by anyone who gave Morneau a first-place vote.
0 for 2.
Strange - that's why I thought Mauer should have won it - who had a better year than Morneau.
This on the heels of the vote yesterday, when any idiot could see that the Phillies would have been a better team in 2006 if they had traded Howard straight up for Beltran last November and held on to Thome.
If the voters can't appreciate defense and positional value this year, they will NEVER get it!
Sure, but there'd be a lot of ground balls going through that empty spot by third base.
Yeah, but because he sucked so much in the earlygoing of the season, he basically had to hit like he did to help the Twins out of their hole. Mauer hit all year long. If Mauer weren't there, the Castro/Batista-playing Twins probably would've been buried.
This vote is far, far worse than Howard over Pujols.
Yes and no. A more deserving winner in the NL got hosed (Pujols), so that's worse. But a less deserving winner in the AL won (Morneau), so that's worse.
Pick your poison. Both suck.
Justin Morneau, Minnesota 15 8 3 2 - - - - - - 320
Derek Jeter, New York 12 14 - 1 - 1 - - - - 306
David Ortiz, Boston - 1 11 5 7 3 1 - - - 193
Frank Thomas, Oakland - 3 4 7 7 4 1 - - - 174
Jermaine Dye, Chicago - 1 2 6 5 7 4 2 1 - 156
Joe Mauer, Minnesota - - 3 6 1 2 5 3 2 1 116
Johan Santana, Minnesota 1 - 5 1 3 3 3 1 1 3 114
Travis Hafner, Cleveland - 1 - - - 2 4 7 3 2 64
Vladimir Guerrero, Los Angeles - - - - - 2 3 4 6 - 46
Carlos Guillen, Detroit - - - - 1 - 3 3 2 3 34
Grady Sizemore, Cleveland - - - - 1 - 1 1 2 7 24
Jim Thome, Chicago - - - - - 1 3 - - - 17
Alex Rodriguez, New York - - - - 1 - - 2 - 1 13
Jason Giambi, New York - - - - - 1 - - 2 - 9
Johnny Damon, New York - - - - 1 - - - - 1 7
Justin Verlander, Detroit - - - - 1 - - - - 1 7
Ichiro Suzuki, Seattle - - - - - 1 - - 1 - 7
Joe Nathan, Minnesota - - - - - 1 - - - 1 6
Manny Ramirez, Boston - - - - - - - 1 1 1 6
Miguel Tejada, Baltimore - - - - - - - - 2 1 5
Raul Ibanez, Seattle - - - - - - - 1 - 1 4
Robinson Cano, New York - - - - - - - 1 - - 3
Paul Konerko, Chicago - - - - - - - 1 - - 3
Magglio Ordonez, Detroit - - - - - - - 1 - - 3
Vernon Wells, Toronto - - - - - - - - 1 1 3
Carl Crawford, Tampa Bay - - - - - - - - 1 - 2
Mariano Rivera, New York - - - - - - - - 1 - 2
Kenny Rogers, Detroit - - - - - - - - 1 - 2
Chien-Ming Wang, New York - - - - - - - - 1 - 2
Troy Glaus, Toronto - - - - - - - - - 1 1
Gary Matthews Jr., Texas - - - - - - - - - 1 1
A.J. Pierzynski, Chicago - - - - - - - - - 1 1
Michael Young, Texas - - - - - - - - - 1 1
Other awesomeness -
David Ortiz and Frank Thomas both finished ahead of Jermaine Dye.
Joe Mauer didn't finish in the top five.
I don't normally care about awards, but it's like they required a lobotomy before voting for AL MVP.
Strange - that's why I thought Mauer should have won it - who had a better year than Morneau.
Which is why I would have voted for Santana!
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Agreed, but the question was how could you put Morneau in the top 5.
Maybe Jeter lost some points for negative intangibles for throwing A-Rod at the wolves when they were braying for him. That would be the most delicious of ironies.
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Pujols (or Beltran) should have won, but at least Howard hit 58 jacks. Morneau's season wasn't even that great.
Defense! (Because you know they considered it)
Jeter's relative fungibility with the prior year's MVP isn't a particularly convincing argument against his qualifications to be this year's MVP.
Let's try this instead:
You could take Jeter off the Yankees, plug Morneau in to play SS, and the Yankees wouldn't miss a beat.
Doesn't work quite as well.
It's clear that the writers take different approaches to the Cy Young and the MVP votes. With the Cy, they usually vote for who they think is simply the best pitcher (although they often get that wrong). With the MVP, they vote for the good/great player who was most "valuable" to his team -- this means more votes go to players on teams that barely make it into the playoffs or even just miss making it into the playoffs, because those teams' stars have more impact. In both cases this year, they picked the sluggers who got hot at the same time as their teams (although Howard had a much, much better year). I bet that if the Yankees had slunk into the playoffs with 88 wins, Jeter would have walked away with the trophy. Sometimes I think half the sportswriters out there sleep through the first three months.
that's already a prerequisite for being a baseball writer
I was just thinking exactly the same thing. Their stat lines are virtually identical.
Well, the 2nd place finisher was but 14 points behind and 113 points ahead of 3rd place, so it seems that someone was ripped off.
Mauer didn't get any 1st place votes and finished 6th. Strange that there wasn't more of an even split on Mauer/Morneau among those inclined towards the Twins.
Its been said before, but 87 was definitely worse. Dawson was a worse choice than Morneau, and Bell was worse than Howard. Both by a lot.
That said, I agree that Howard was defensible but wrong, and Morneau is indefensible.
Well, hell. All you have to do is read their columns to know that's true.
Faith in the cosmos restored.
Yeah, yeah, I don't know the guy, but Jeter just seems to be the most profound douche bag of douche bags. The way he handled the Huckaby and ARod situations made him come off as a supreme jerk. So, I'm raising my glass to the voters today. Way to do a shitty job guys!
1. Congrats to Morneau! (First Canadian to win the AL MVP, no?)
2. I only watched maybe 40 Twins games this year (Thank you Extra Innings), and they were almost all in June-September, but it seemed that in every damn game, Morneau got a huge hit, or drove in a huge run, and the Twinkies won all the damn time. I had (have?) no idea what his stats line was at the end of the season, but maybe the BBWAA were watching the same games that I was. Frankly, I don't think that they were that off base.
He seemed to carry that team for 3 months when they went from afterthoughts to the playoffs.
I'm sure that Jeter is very deserving, but the thought that Morneau wasn't one of the top 20!!! players in the AL is staggering to me. Huh. Playing Rauseo's part.
Also, Jeter and Mauer's seasons were similar but Jeter played a lot more which gives him the edge. Although it seems like the writers were smart enough to figure that out -- although it's probably just a coincidence.
That's what also struck me first while looking at the ballot tallies. Wow, they are dumb.
Here, OTOH, one can definitely make the case that Morneau isn't even the MVP on his own team . . . and possibly isn't even 2nd on his own team either. Frankly, I'm baffled on how he deserved to get anything over a 5th place vote, let alone win the darned thing.
I was just thinking exactly the same thing. Their stat lines are virtually identical.
Player 1: 566 AB / 30 2b / 35 HR / 113 RBI / .313 BA / .381 OBP / .551 SLUG / .932 OPS / 135 OPS+
Player 2: 592 AB / 37 2b / 34 HR / 130 RBI / .321 BA / .375 OBP / .559 SLUG / .934 OPS / 140 OPS+
Both are First Baseman from 90+ win teams who were the 3rd best players on their team. Player 1 won the MVP with 320 pts, the other received 3 points in the MVP race.
The Minnesota sports media pretty much agreed to unanimously support Morneau back in September. There seemed to be a recognition that Mauer was more deserving, but they thought that Morneau had a better shot at the award.
Basically, Twins fans and local media were betting that the voters were stupid, which turned out to be an excellent bet.
You do realize that you also come off as a supreme jerk with a post like this, don't you? "I don't know the guy, but I irrationally despise him and wish him ill." Yep, makes you seem like a real prince.
Nope - Larry Walker.
The AL MVP?
Are you sure?
</Plaschke>
Walker's award wasn't in the same ballpark of badness as Morneau's or Bell's. Even with the Coors effect, Walker had a tremendous season. Piazza should have won, but Walker wasn't a ridiculous choice (similar to Howard over Pujols).
Morneau 7th vs 1st
Thomas 8th vs. 4th
Mauer 2nd vs 6th
Santana 3rd vs. 7th
Hafner 5th vs 8th
Guerrero 12th vs. 9th
M Ramirez 11th vs 19th
Tejada 13th vs 20th
Halladay 15th vs. No Votes
Vernon Wells 16th vs 25th
Jason Giambi 25th vs 14th
It seems to me that this really isn't all that uncommon. I think it was true of Griffey when he was at his peak. And A-Rod got the second most votes for most overrated in that player survey.
Well, sure, but if we were the type of people who could convince themselves not to care about this trivia, then we wouldn't be lurking a site such as this. We'd be reading books or flossing or working on our Presto Magix underwater scene or something.
Forrest Gump over Pulp Fiction and The Shawshank Redemption?
Touche.
1. Ask me if I give a ####
2. Not knowing the guy doesn't mean it's irrational to despise him. There are a lot of people I don't know whom it is rational to despise.
3. Wishing him ill is a bit of hyperbole. I'm glad he didn't win the MVP vote. I didn't wish that he be run over by a bus.
4. Ask me if I give a ####
5. Ask me if I give a ####
Just paste everything DCA said in this thread.
First Nash, now Morneau. Is Mike Vanderjagt going to win the NFL MVP award?
Well, if we want to play the tv or movie awful award game, we'll be here even longer.
Ex. Crash, The West Wing, The Wire not even getting nominated, etc.
Except Mauer plays the most demanding position on the diamond at a Gold Glove level while Jeter is a below average SS. And Mauer won the batting title. By our standards, it would be almost impossible to award a C MVP. At BP, I voted Mauer-Jeter-Guillen. I think I had Morneau 10th.
My best friend is a Yankees fan, and he loves to needle me about my all-time favourite player getting hosed in '87. Now he knows how I feel. Except 87 was an even worse pick (how they can award it to someone choking down the stretch in DIRECT head to head competition with the real MVP was staggering), and of course, Jetes is an HOF lock while Trammell has almost no chance.
Derek Jeter, in his own words.
"If I had won the MVP, this is how I would have done it."
Just wondering, do you give a ####?
It's just depressing that after 25 years of revolutionary, groundbreaking work in the field of player analysis that the people with the biggest voice and most influence still think RBI's are the most important thing to look at when deciding who is best or the most valuable. And they are helping to perpetuate the lack of true understanding, as yet another generation of fans comes online and assumes these guys know what they are talking about, and therefore base THEIR valuation methods on the same shallow, ill thought out criteria.
We still have alot of work to do.
I just think that the depths of stupidity to which they descend is absolutely fascinating.
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