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Tuesday, March 30, 2010

Passan: Stealth scouting helped Braves land Heyward

Al Goetz needed to make the rest of the baseball world think the Atlanta Braves wanted nothing to do with Jason Heyward(notes). So he did what any reasonable scout would. Goetz turned into a stalker.

Past the outfield fence at Henry County High School stands a small forest, and as all the other scouts passing through suburban Atlanta sneaked peeks at Heyward from behind home plate, Goetz settled in the thicket. Scouting success often necessitates subterfuge, and in order to watch Heyward without giving away the Braves’ desire to draft him, Goetz played woodsman.

JPWF13 Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:11 PM | 45 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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1. Dale Sams Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:36 PM (#3488837)

You know..rather than sit in a muddy copse in a ghillie suit getting ticks on your ass, you could have just asked me to video the kid for you. I'd probably have done it for free.

2. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:37 PM (#3488840)

IAUNOTCAW, but this is bad:

Which was effusive, vociferous, absolutely, positively, without-a-doubt certain, and probably a little stalkerish. For more than half a decade, Goetz had followed Heyward’s exploits. They met when Goetz’s son, Justin, writhed in pain after getting hit by a pitch from Heyward when the boys were 10.

3. JJ1986 Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:38 PM (#3488841)

Why would he need to do that? Teams can't trade draft picks.

4. xbhaskarx Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:48 PM (#3488849)

Why would he need to do that? Teams can't trade draft picks.

Because Heyward was the 14th overall pick, not the first overall pick?

5. JPWF13

Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:52 PM (#3488851)

I may be misremembering, but didn't EVERYONE think the Braves were drafting Heyward? If anything Heyward fell to the Braves not because they fooled anyone into thinking they weren't interested, but because they were AND had shown a recent tendency towards over-drafting tools goofs...

Aside from that having a middle aged man hide in the woods just outside a HS athletic field is more than little creepy

6. RJ in TO Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:54 PM (#3488854)

I may be misremembering, but didn't EVERYONE think the Braves were drafting Heyward?

High school prospect from the local area? That sounds like a Braves' pick to me, and everyone else who knows anything at all about the Braves. Aren't they somewhat famous for the level to which they scout Georgia?

7. JJ1986 Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:54 PM (#3488855)

Because Heyward was the 14th overall pick, not the first overall pick?

If any team ahead of the Braves wanted him, they'd have to take him in the first round. Whoever took him, he wasn't going to last to the supplemental. No team behind the Braves could move up and pass them so it didn't matter what they wanted.

If teams can trade picks, there's a very good reason to hide who you're interested in, because any team that wanted Heyward would have known they'd have to move up to 13th to get him.

8. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 06:55 PM (#3488859)

That's nuthin' compared to the wars between AFL and NFL teams back in the '60s.

9. Danny Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:06 PM (#3488869)

From BA's mock draft on 5/18/07:

14. BRAVES. It wouldn’t surprise anyone if the top two players on Atlanta’s draft board at this point would be a pair of home-state high school products, Heyward and Smoker. Getting an athletic, power-hitting right fielder like Heyward at No. 14 would be a nice value. Bumgarner also would be a consideration if he’s still around.

• Projected Pick: Jason Heyward.

10. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:15 PM (#3488874)

Aside from that having a middle aged man hide in the woods just outside a HS athletic field is more than little creepy

If they'd caught him, he could've just said he was there to film cheerleaders.

11. JJ1986 Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:16 PM (#3488875)

What?

I am usually not one to criticize awkward writing?

12. Kyle S at work Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:28 PM (#3488885)

The reason they didn't want to publicize their interest in him was because it would be a signal to the other teams that he was good. Not because the Braves have a magical scouting gift, but because as the local team they saw him more than anyone else. There was an article about this recently (I thought linked here?) but when scouts from out of town came to see him, other teams were at that point so afraid of him that they would hardly give him anything to hit and he was happy to take his walks. So if you're the Marlins scout and in the game you see him he's 0-1 with a flyout and 3 BBs, what does your scouting report say?

Someone else will have to do the googling but I believe one of the knocks on him as a high school prospect was that he was "too selective."

Anyway, the point remains: if you're the Marlins and choosing between Heyward and Dominguez, would you be swayed one way or another if you knew that the team picking after you had seen Heyward play 50 times and was desperate to draft him versus if they expressed relative indifference?

13. Mike A Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:34 PM (#3488893)

You're never 100% sure, but most of us 'net Brave fans assumed they would select Heyward if he fell to them. He pretty much fit their plans/system perfectly.

I remember everyone being very excited about the pick. It's very unusual to see a pick universally praised by the fans (which certainly wasn't the case with Mike Minor or Cody Johnson).

14. KingKaufman Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:37 PM (#3488898)

Aside from that having a middle aged man hide in the woods just outside a HS athletic field is more than little creepy

Really. I just time my daily walks past the high school to when school gets out.

15. ballfan Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:40 PM (#3488901)

Wouldn't say Braves got Heyward because he was under radar. Baseball America, in advance of the draft, had him rated the ninth best player in the draft, five spots before Atlanta drafted.

16. ballfan Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:40 PM (#3488902)

Wouldn't say Braves got Heyward because he was under radar. Baseball America, in advance of the draft, had him rated the ninth best player in the draft, five spots before Atlanta drafted.

17. Hang down your head, Tom Foley Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:58 PM (#3488909)

Somewhere in Georgia right now, Al Goetz is wearing a field hockey uniform to get close to a high school LHP.

18. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: March 30, 2010 at 07:59 PM (#3488910)

having a middle aged man hide in the woods just outside a HS athletic field is more than little creepy

Why is it creepy if he's scouting? Do you find scouting creepy?

19. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:00 PM (#3488912)

Why is it creepy if he's scouting? Do you find scouting creepy?

Not in general, but some of those scoutmasters have been known to get a little handsy.

20. Barnaby Jones Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:01 PM (#3488913)

hey were AND had shown a recent tendency towards over-drafting tools goofs...

Who is this referring to? That sounds more like the Braves of the Chuck Lamar years rather than the Braves of the Aughts.

21. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:05 PM (#3488915)

I am usually not one to criticize awkward writing?

Haha, yes. I was just playing off of "IANAL".

22. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:08 PM (#3488916)

It seems to me the one team they'd really be worried about tipping their hand to would have been the Giants who picked 10th (Bumgarner) and 22nd (Alderson). If you are thinking the Giants might want to snag him at 22 but would jump on him at 10 in fear that the Braves were hot and heavy after him that would make sense to me.

23. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:13 PM (#3488920)

I didn't have the impression Heyward was a tools goof. I seem to recall him being popular with the stats crowd because he exhibited plate discipline, while the tools freaks questioned him because he wasn't seeing any pitches/wasn't being aggressive enough.

24. Mike Green Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:19 PM (#3488923)

As I recall it, Mike Emeigh was none too happy with the Pirates' decision to pass over him at #4. I would have been shocked had the Braves passed him over.

25. Dale Sams Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:31 PM (#3488927)

Haha, yes. I was just playing off of "IANAL".

I am not Al Leiter?

26. gef the talking mongoose Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:40 PM (#3488937)

I am not Al Leiter?

I dunno ... It's a worthy try, but I don't think it comes anywhere close to "I am Spartactus!"

27. Fancy Pants is braggadocious about his Handle Posted: March 30, 2010 at 08:50 PM (#3488946)

I am not Al Leiter?

?! Clearly, only Al Leiter would bother denying that he was Al Leiter. Clearly, you are Al Leiter!

I am usually not one to criticize awkward writing?

Haha, yes. I was just playing off of "IANAL".

IAGTSYOTHWARF!

28. JPWF13

Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:00 PM (#3488957)

I didn't have the impression Heyward was a tools goof.

He wasn't the one I was referring to as a tools goof, but one of the guys I meant was named by someone else in this thread

29. Kyle S at work Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:00 PM (#3488958)

Here is the BBTF Thread on the 2007 Draft. Going to check it out now.

30. The Keith Law Blog Blah Blah (battlekow) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:07 PM (#3488965)

Anyway, I recall accurate assessments of Heyward being elusive; because he was so much better than everyone else on his team, he was getting pitched around a lot and it was hard for anyone to get a feel for how truly good he was. Am I misremembering?

31. RJ in TO Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:09 PM (#3488966)

Anyway, I recall accurate assessments of Heyward being elusive; because he was so much better than everyone else on his team, he was getting pitched around a lot and it was hard for anyone to get a feel for how truly good he was. Am I misremembering?

I think your memory is correct. There were a bunch of stories about scouts having to watch a half-dozen games in order to get to see him swing the bat twice.

32. Kyle S at work Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:13 PM (#3488971)

Longer 2007 draft thread in which I call Vlad a communist. To his credit, he advocates for the Pirates to draft Heyward in the link in #30.

33. JPWF13

Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:22 PM (#3488981)

Heyward may very well get all the way down to #14. Beaven probably will be available. Josh Smoker, another local prospect and a highly rated HS LHP, and Nate Vineyard, a local RHP, will probably be there, too.

-- MWE

Nathan Vineyard????
What happened to him did his arm fall off? Did he completely flake out (combination of the both?)

34. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:26 PM (#3488988)

Aside from that having a middle aged man hide in the woods just outside a HS athletic field is more than little creepy

Well, it's not like he is a catholic priest or something.

35. KronicFatigue Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:41 PM (#3488999)

Would teams be allowed to consolidate resources to improve their scouting? Like if the Royals and Pirates pooled their scouts and shared information with each other.

On a somewhat related note, why there a secure website for all the MLB owners that stream every at bat from every prospect? Why aren't parents recording at bats and uploading them to such a thing, or at the very least, youtube.

36. Rich Rifkin Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:48 PM (#3489002)

Which of the 13 picks ahead of Heyward was the worst? (Leave out a guy who did not sign.)

1 Devil Rays David Price
2 Royals Mike Moustakas
3 Cubs Josh Vitters
4 Pirates Daniel Moskos
5 Orioles Matt Wieters
6 Nationals Ross Detwiler
7 Brewers Matt LaPorta
8 Rockies Casey Weathers
9 Diamondbacks Jarrod Parker
10 Giants Madison Bumgarner
11 Mariners Phillippe Aumont
12 Marlins Matt Dominguez
13 Indians Beau Mills
14 Braves Jason Heyward

Moskos, the 23rd rated prospect for Pittsburgh?

37. Good cripple hitter Posted: March 30, 2010 at 09:48 PM (#3489004)

Nathan Vineyard????
What happened to him did his arm fall off? Did he completely flake out (combination of the both?)

From what I found, it was a combination of both. An online discussion about Vineyard from 2008 claims that Vineyard had surgery on his arm in 2008, then failed to report for his rehab. The Mets "literally had to track him down." Minaya later claimed that he was going through personal issues.

38. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 10:10 PM (#3489013)

Longer 2007 draft thread in which I call Vlad a communist. To his credit, he advocates for the Pirates to draft Heyward in the link in #30.

Not only did I successfully predict that Heyward was going to be awesome, I also called the Moskos pick for the Pirates well in advance AND tagged him as a bomb.

Should've invested in a lotto ticket, apparently.

39. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: March 30, 2010 at 10:16 PM (#3489018)

Heh, me from draft day '07, on Moskos: "I also think that he's going to mysteriously lose some of his FB velocity once they try to make him a full-time starter, and he'll eventually need to be moved back into the pen (or become a bottom-of-the-rotation guy)."

40. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: March 30, 2010 at 11:53 PM (#3489071)

As an Oriole fan in Pirate land, the 2007 draft has given me a huge advantage in discussing which organization has been more poorly run.

41. J. Michael Neal Posted: March 31, 2010 at 02:14 AM (#3489138)

The Dearborn Sparkplugs managed to grab both Wieters (at #2) and Heyward (at #11) that year. It was a good draft.

42. Voros McCracken, Human Shield Posted: March 31, 2010 at 03:32 AM (#3489180)

You know I'm as high on Jason Heyward as the next guy, but aren't we a little out ahead of ourselves here? Couldn't this sort of article have waited until mid-season or so?

I'm not really being overly-critical but the kid has zero major league plate appearances, so maybe we should slow down a bit. Can't miss prospects do still miss from time to time, even the legit ones and even hitters (Ruben Mateo for example).

43. Walt Davis Posted: March 31, 2010 at 04:36 AM (#3489211)

You know I'm as high on Jason Heyward as the next guy, but aren't we a little out ahead of ourselves here?

blasphemer!!

44. McCoy Posted: March 31, 2010 at 04:41 AM (#3489214)

Arianist!

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Passan: Stealth scouting helped Braves land Heyward

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