Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Wednesday, July 24, 2013

‘Steroids Era’ leaves Cooperstown without its biggest baseball draw

Happy now?

lm

This Sunday, baseball will hold one of its most sacred and enduring rituals. Three men will be forever enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, south of Utica.

The problem is none of them are alive.

For the first time since 1996, not one living player got the 75% of baseball writers’ votes needed to gain entry to the Hall. Many interpreted the result as a collective protest vote over the steroids era.

Induction weekend is huge for the village that lives and breathes baseball, and for its region’s economy. Now, people are trying to make the best of an uncomfortable moment in baseball history.

...But on Cooperstown’s Main Street, some business owners aren’t buying what the Hall is selling. Induction weekend fills hotels, bed and breakfasts, stores, and restaurants.

Inside the 7th Inning Stretch, a baseball gear and souvenir store, manager Barry Renert is downbeat: “People are not happy about it. It’s not good for baseball, it’s not good for the fans, it’s not good for the store owners here. What else can I say? It’s not going to be a good summer for us.”

...As for The Game itself, the Hall of Fame’s Brad Horn says baseball has weathered other scandals, stains, and awkward moments. He says the Hall of Fame induction ceremony remains the gold standard for baseball dreamers. “This is the culmination of that dream. And it shows that it’s extraordinarily hard even for the best athletes in the world to earn election to the Hall.”

Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, and Mark McGuire may never make it in. But it sure wouldn’t hurt this village if they did.

Repoz Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:20 AM | 57 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: business, hof

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Dale Sams Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:51 AM (#4502774)
"Build coffins. That's all you'll need."
   2. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:54 AM (#4502779)
Mark McGuire


Drink!
   3. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4502780)
Is the use of the word "village" a ham handed way of making the reader feel for these old-timey good folk?

Gak. I think Bonds (and others) should be inducted. I think it obvious. And yet I am not impressed by these appeals to emotion. Oh well.
   4. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:58 AM (#4502782)
Can someone attend the National Copy Desk Editors Convention (there must be one somewhere) and storm the stage with a "It's Mark McGwire You Stupid #####\" banner.
   5. JJ1986 Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4502786)
"Steroid Era" players have been on the ballot for almost 20 years. We've known about them for more than 10 and McGwire himself has been on the ballot for more than 5. Barry Larkin, a player whose career was in the middle of the steroids era, had no problems at all getting in.

This is about Bonds and Clemens. Not about the "steroid era."
   6. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:03 PM (#4502787)
Is the use of the word "village" a ham handed way of making the reader feel for these old-timey good folk?


No, it's the legal term that describes Cooperstown, and many other municipalities in New York.

   7. Gamingboy Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:07 PM (#4502790)
Don't worry, I'm sure they will be fine next year when Greg Maddux, probably Tom Glavine, hopefully Frank Thomas and possibly Jeff Kent or Mike Mussina are joined by Veterans Comittee people like Joe Torre, Tony La Russa and Bobby Cox and maybe finally Marvin Miller. Oh, and maybe a high-up holdover like Craig Biggio or Jack Morris.

   8. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:09 PM (#4502791)
This is about Bonds and Clemens. Not about the "steroid era."


Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro are relieved to hear it. Jeff Bagwell has been on the ballot 3 times. A second baseman with 3,000 hits, and the greatest hitting catcher of all time didn't get elected. This is a lot more than just Bonds and Clemens.
   9. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4502793)
Don't worry, I'm sure they will be fine next year when Greg Maddux, probably Tom Glavine, hopefully Frank Thomas and possibly Jeff Kent or Mike Mussina are joined by Veterans Comittee people like Joe Torre, Tony La Russa and Bobby Cox. Oh, and maybe a high-up holdover like Craig Biggio or Jack Morris.


Yeah, this is a blip, which won't happen again for a while. But there won't be that many players. Maddux is the only lock among the players, with Biggio, Glavine and Thomas the only ones who have a chance to join him.

Edit: Oh, and I suppose you can't rule out Piazza, though I doubt he'll make the climb all the way up.

   10. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4502796)
No, it's the legal term that describes Cooperstown, and many other municipalities in New York.


I know it is the correct legal term, but I suspect using it as it was, was a literary choice. Of course "small town USA" is a powerful symbol in America, and yes I am not a Norman Rockwell fan.
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4502797)
I know it is the correct legal term, but I suspect using it as it was, was a literary choice.


Using any other term would be incorrect, so whether it was done for flourish is kind of irrelevant.

I grew up in a village in New York, and we called it a village. You wouldn't call it, of Cooperstown, a city or a town or a hamlet, since it's none of those things.
   12. Gamingboy Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4502798)


Yeah, this is a blip, which won't happen again for a while. But there won't be that many players. Maddux is the only lock among the players, with Biggio, Glavine and Thomas the only ones who have a chance to join him.



Yeah, Kent will eventually get in (probably) but not for a few years. Mussina is the definition of a bubble guy. But even if it was just Maddux + the 3 managers, the place would probably have the highest attendance since Ripken/Gwynn.
   13. TJ Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4502811)
Great pic! I love the image of The Omega Man strolling the empty and forlorn streets of Cooperstown...

May I suggest using one of Diogenese and his unlit lantern at the next gathering of the BBWAA, looking for a honest sportswriter from the Steroid Era...
   14. hee came hee seop'd he choi'd Posted: July 24, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4502822)
Robert Neville: [Talking to moldy corpse in car dealership] How much for a trade-in on my Ford? Oh, really? Thanks a lot, you cheating bastard...
   15. DL from MN Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4502840)
Using any other term would be incorrect


In the same article that used "Mark McGuire".
   16. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:19 PM (#4502841)
Yeah, Kent will eventually get in (probably) but not for a few years.

My crystal ball is probably fogged and cracked, but Kent is my sleeper pick for the best player to be inadvertantly shoved off the overcrowded ballot.
   17. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:23 PM (#4502847)
In the same article that used "Mark McGuire".


Same paragraph.

My crystal ball is probably fogged and cracked, but Kent is my sleeper pick for the best player to be inadvertantly shoved off the overcrowded ballot.


Yeah, you never know what a future vet's committee will do, but I wouldn't be stunned if he's one and done on the writer's ballot.

   18. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:27 PM (#4502852)
So which meme will win the thread this time around?

1. HYPOCRITES!

2. THE HOF IS DOOMED! DOOMED!!

3. MOVE THE HOF TO THE EMPIRE STATE BUILDING!

4. THE HOF IS DOOMED IF BONDS GETS IN!

5. THE HOF IS DOOMED IF BONDS DOESN'T GET IN!

6. MICKEY MANTLE TOOK STEROIDS AND BABE RUTH SLEPT WITH A GOAT!

7. GAYLORD PERRY CHEATED!

8. THE CLARKS WILL GO BROKE AND BE DOOMED!

9. WHAT ABOUT GREENIES?

10. WHAT ABOUT CORKED BATS!

11. BILL CONLIN IS A PREVERT!!!

12. WHAT ABOUT CONTACT LENSES!

13. WHAT ABOUT LASIK SURGERY!

14. MIKE SCHMIDT WOULD HAVE TAKEN STEROIDS!

15. I BET HANK AARON MUST HAVE TAKEN GREENIES BEFORE EVERY GAME!

16. ROGER MARIS'S HAIR FELL OUT! GUILTY, GUILTY, GUILTY!!

17. MANNY ALEXANDER!

18. BABE RUTH CHEWED FEEN-A-MINT!

19. IT'S ALL ABOUT BOYHOOD HEROES!

20. IF YOU WOULDN'T VOTE FOR BONDS, YOU'RE JUST LIKE MURRAY CHASS!

21. THOSE NEW YORK WRITERS WILL FIGURE OUT A WAY TO GET IN PETTITTE!

22. COOPERSTOWN IS DOOMED!

23. WE JUST WANT OUR DINGERS!

24. NO CHICK EVER DUG A SPRAY HITTER!

25. TO REPEAT THIS MENU, PRESS THE STAR KEY!
   19. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4502857)
My crystal ball is probably fogged and cracked, but Kent is my sleeper pick for the best player to be inadvertantly shoved off the overcrowded ballot.

I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest to see Kent fall under 5%. He has no chance of going in this year, though.

Maddux will go in. Glavine and Thomas ought to, but my golly it's a crowded ballot. I'm guessing Glavine goes in and Thomas waits.
   20. JRVJ Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:37 PM (#4502860)
Prior to the Braun suspension (and whatever ELSE is coming down the pike), I thought 2 or 3 players were getting in next year (Biggio, perhaps Morris, Maddux).

Post Braun suspension, I would not be surprised if next year is another shutout, UNLESS the HOF tweaks its rules (e.g., increasing the number of potential candidates on a ballot to 15; tossing out blank ballots; express instruction is given to writers that they should NOT consider steroids / PEDs when submitting their ballot).
   21. bunyon Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:40 PM (#4502862)
Beyond steroids, I think there is a tendency to raise the bar on what a HOFer is anyway. Maybe that comes out of steroids but it sure seems taht the voters have gotten a lot more demanding.
   22. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4502863)
Post Braun suspension, I would not be surprised if next year is another shutout, UNLESS the HOF tweaks its rules (e.g., increasing the number of potential candidates on a ballot to 15; tossing out blank ballots; express instruction is given to writers that they should NOT consider steroids / PEDs when submitting their ballot).


Barring his own PED revelation, there is no chance Maddux fails to make it next year. None whatsoever. He could see his support fall to just over 90 percent instead of the 95+ he could have expected if he entered in an ordinary year, but that's the extent any of this will have on his election.

One thing to keep in mind: Despite the 2013 shutout, the voters aren't trying to elect no one. They just couldn't reach 75 percent agreement on a single candidate this year for a variety of reasons. None of those reasons will have any bearing on Greg Maddux's candidacy.

Beyond steroids, I think there is a tendency to raise the bar on what a HOFer is anyway. Maybe that comes out of steroids but it sure seems that the voters have gotten a lot more demanding.


Absolutely. On top of that, there are just weird ballot dynamics at work. Given the ballot he was on, Biggio was going to struggle to get 75 percent on the first ballot, with or without the steroids mess. I think he makes up the gap next year, but I always said it was possible he'd have to wait 2-3 years.

   23. John Northey Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:00 PM (#4502878)
It'll be interesting. Kent is hard to read with the voters. He was the anti-Bonds back in SF and has the most home runs by a second baseman, two things that should excite the writers. But... he was viewed as a jerk (looked good next to Bonds but next to anyone else not so much), didn't cross any magic numbers (just shy of 2500 hits, 23 HR shy of 400, under 100 SB), strangely had just the one year under 100 OPS+ (a 96 his final year) but didn't hang around either as he played 100+ games every single season he was in the majors. On WAR he is just 18th on the next ballot (21 guys with 50+ WAR on it) so few statistically inclined will vote for him. Yeah, the more I look at it the more I can see Kent getting the Whittaker treatment of one and done despite having a good HOF case.

Btw, has there ever been a ballot other than the very first one with 3 guys over 100 WAR? 11 at 70+? I strongly suspect Palmeiro will drop off this time. I'll also be annoyed if Jack Morris gets in as he is ranked #22 by WAR, same in James HOF standards, 18th by the HOF Monitor, 23rd by WAR7 and JAWS. Heck, even by his 'strong suit' of wins he is just 5th. If a vet committee puts him in, so be it, but when you have a stuffed ballot like this how on earth can you put a check mark next to Morris?
   24. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4502894)
I'll also be annoyed if Jack Morris gets in as he is ranked #22 by WAR, same in James HOF standards, 18th by the HOF Monitor, 23rd by WAR7 and JAWS. Heck, even by his 'strong suit' of wins he is just 5th. If a vet committee puts him in, so be it, but when you have a stuffed ballot like this how on earth can you put a check mark next to Morris?


He won't. I think he's a lock for the Vet's Committee down the road, but the fact that he basically made no progress in 2013 and that there is one starting pitcher HoF lock and another potential first-ballot SP joining the ballot this year pretty much eliminates him going in through the BBWAA.

   25. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:10 PM (#4502895)
I hope Mark McGuire and Greg Maddox go into the Hall together.
   26. McCoy Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4502897)
I believe Ryan Sandberg will be doing the introduction for Maddox. I don't know who will be doing Greg Biggio's introduction.
   27. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:22 PM (#4502913)
No, no, Kerry Woods is inducting Maddox. Some drunk chick in a pink Cubs t-shirt just told me.
   28. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:22 PM (#4502914)
Btw, has there ever been a ballot other than the very first one with 3 guys over 100 WAR?


Well, the second ballot had 6, 3 got elected. So 1938 had 3 as well, one went in. Aside from that, probably not. There have been only 31 players to top 100, 9 of whom went in in the first 3 elections, and another (Gehrig) who never appeared on a ballot*, and 2 more who are not yet eligible (RJ, and ARod). So, only 19 available 100 WAR players since 1938. Probably every one of them prior to Bonds/Clemens went in on the first ballot.

edit: * 2 actually. Kid Nichols was beyond the purview of the BBWAA.

   29. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4502917)
25 and 26, you two made me go check another thread to make sure I spelled Greg Maddux's name correctly*. I hate both of you (And Elroy, off the list you go!).

* Surprisingly I did.
   30. JRVJ Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:38 PM (#4502934)
22, I wonder.

I could see things getting really witch-hunty in the near future, and there's a couple of writers out there who have expressed in the past that they would vote for no one from the steroids era. Plus there's always a few who vote for no player the first time they are on the ballot.

Suffice it to say that I would not dare go as far as you have in stating that there's no chance Maddux doesn't go in, UNLESS it's revealed that he was roiding.
   31. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4502939)
Why so bitter, Mr. Mouse? I made another centaur joke for you on the other thread.
   32. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:44 PM (#4502940)
There also used to be some writers who declared they would never vote for a player who had gone out on strike. Don't know if any of them are still around.
   33. Kiko Sakata Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:47 PM (#4502941)
I could see things getting really witch-hunty in the near future, and there's a couple of writers out there who have expressed in the past that they would vote for no one from the steroids era. Plus there's always a few who vote for no player the first time they are on the ballot.

Suffice it to say that I would not dare go as far as you have in stating that there's no chance Maddux doesn't go in, UNLESS it's revealed that he was roiding.


86% of the electorate voted for Barry Larkin just two years ago (Robbie Alomar got 90% the year before that and the same comments here apply equally well to him). Larkin's and Maddux's careers equally spanned the "steroid era". They both peaked at the same time in the mid-90s (Maddux won the Cy in Larkin's MVP season). I would be very surprised to find voters holding steroids against Greg Maddux in a way that they did not hold them against Barry Larkin. There's no evidence that the number of "I won't vote for anybody" voters is anywhere close to enough to drop an otherwise slam-dunk, no-doubter, 98% vote-getter below 75%: Bagwell, Biggio, and Piazza were always going to be much closer to the borderline on their first ballot than 355-win and 4-time Cy Young award-winner Greg Maddux.
   34. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: July 24, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4502956)
it sure seems taht the voters have gotten a lot more demanding.

Two words: Jim Rice.
Two more: Andre Dawson.
   35. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4502958)
Why so bitter, Mr. Mouse? I made another centaur joke for you on the other thread.


True. OK you are back on.

Side Note: I have no idea why my handle is "Bitter Mouse". I have no recollection where that name came from or what I was thinking at the time. I am not a bitter person, and while small, not fascinated with Mice. I have "brand equity" so I keep it, but honestly it puzzles me what I was thinking. I should come up with a complex story that explains it I guess - maybe involving alien abduction.
   36. Moeball Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4502967)
OK, let me see if I understand how the typical BBWAA writer thinks (I know, I’m going to a scary place here):

Name of Player-Reason I didn’t vote for him:

B Bonds-Steroids plus I don’t like him
R Clemens-Steroids plus I don’t like him
C Biggio-See J Bagwell
J Bagwell-See C Biggio
J Morris-I wanted to vote for him and I used to instead of B Blyleven but then people found out about it and laughed at me so now I’m afraid to vote for him
M Piazza-Didn’t like the way he looked (bacne?) plus he threw like a girl
T Raines-He used different drugs than I do
L Smith-I thought it was Lonnie Smith so I didn’t vote for him but then I found out it was Lee Smith. Darn! I would’ve voted for him!
C Schilling-Didn’t win enough games, and getting the big “W” is what the pitcher's job is.
E Martinez-I hate the DH so I will never ever vote for a player who ever played DH (I even refused to vote for Hank Aaron back in the day)
A Trammell-Even though his career looks a lot like Barry Larkin’s who did get elected, but Barry had that sudden big HR year in ’96 that made me suspicious so I didn’t vote for him either. What was the question?
L Walker-He played at Coors Field, didn’t he? I never vote for anyone who played at Coors Field.
F McGriff-He didn’t hit 500 HRs. If he had just taken steroids so he could’ve reached 500 HRs but if he didn’t look any bigger then maybe I might’ve voted for him.
D Murphy-Isn’t that the CF who used to play in Oakland back in the ‘80s? He never did anything, why should I vote for him?
M McGwire-Don’t know who this imposter is. Now, Mark McGuire, that’s the guy who took steroids, so I know I ain’t voting for him. Didn't see him on the ballot, though.
D Mattingly-Wait, isn’t he the Dodgers manager? I didn’t think we were voting on managers.
S Sosa-I don’t vote for guys who suddenly have trouble speaking English. I didn’t vote for Bobby Clemente, either.
R Palmeiro-He waved his finger. I didn’t like that.

Now, if only they would put someone on the ballot I could stand to vote for, we might get somebody elected!
   37. Dale Sams Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4502974)
Robert Neville: [Talking to moldy corpse in car dealership] How much for a trade-in on my Ford? Oh, really? Thanks a lot, you cheating bastard...


"Yeahh....they don't make em like that any more."
   38. JRVJ Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:23 PM (#4502977)
33, With all due respect, this seems like an erroneous way to look at this.

I am not saying that Maddux WON'T be elected into the HoF. I am saying that the CHANCES of Maddux NOT being elected are more than zero and certainly higher than they were last week.

Phrased differently, we are presently in Harold Macmillan territory, and we may well be in Nassim Taleb territory in the near future.
   39. Swedish Chef Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4502979)
I have no idea why my handle is "Bitter Mouse".

I'm "Swedish Chef" because that was the biggest role in my TV career.
   40. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4502982)
I don't know who will be doing Greg Biggio's introduction.

Craig Nettles of course.
   41. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4502985)
I don't know who will be doing Greg Biggio's introduction.


They decided Rafael Palermo probably wouldn't be the best one for the job. Maybe Andres Ragalahaggaga (per Harry Caray after about the 6th inning)?
   42. SoSH U at work Posted: July 24, 2013 at 03:46 PM (#4503004)
I am not saying that Maddux WON'T be elected into the HoF. I am saying that the CHANCES of Maddux NOT being elected are more than zero and certainly higher than they were last week.


I don't see how any of the past week's developments are going to have a material effect on the Hall of Fame voting, and certainly not on a 95-percenter like Maddux.

   43. TJ Posted: July 24, 2013 at 06:11 PM (#4503123)

Now, if only they would put someone on the ballot I could stand to vote for, we might get somebody elected!


Hang in there Mo- David Eckstein is only a few years away from being eligible...
   44. alilisd Posted: July 24, 2013 at 06:48 PM (#4503156)
Despite the 2013 shutout, the voters aren't trying to elect no one. They just couldn't reach 75 percent agreement on a single candidate this year for a variety of reasons. None of those reasons will have any bearing on Greg Maddux's candidacy.


I think there's one reason which will have bearing and that is the number of qualified candidates on the ballot. Perhaps nothing else will touch Maddux, but this one will. I'm still of a mind, with you and others, that he will get the requisite 75%, but having at least 10 to 15 (depending on your criteria) returning qualified candidates, plus hitting the ballot with 4 others, means he will be splitting the votes with an historically high number of qualified candidates. Combine this with the recent trend of voters to include fewer names on their ballots and it's easy to see why he might not be considered a lock by some.
   45. Walt Davis Posted: July 24, 2013 at 07:00 PM (#4503163)
Sammy Sosa and Rafael Palmeiro are relieved to hear it. Jeff Bagwell has been on the ballot 3 times. A second baseman with 3,000 hits, and the greatest hitting catcher of all time didn't get elected. This is a lot more than just Bonds and Clemens.

Sosa and Raffy definitely taking the steroid heat, unfairly in Sosa's case. Bagwell was always going to take a few years -- he has worse counting stats than Fred McGriff, we should be happy so many voters realize how much better he was -- but, yes, baseless roid suspicions might be the difference between where he is and being where Biggio is. Similarly baseless roid suspicions might have been the difference between Biggio and election. Both Biggio and Bagwell are near-locks for induction though.

Piazza was never going in first ballot. Only one C has ever gone in first ballot -- Bench who was a great hitter and a great defender. Piazza's defensive rep was almost certainly keeping him out on the first ballot and, if Bonds and Clemens had gotten the votes their on-field performance deserved, Piazza never had a prayer of making it in on that ballot.

Meanwhile Trammell and Raines have doubled their vote %s over the last 4 years.

The system is clearly broken in terms of Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire and Palmeiro. That breakage has caused at least a slowdown for guys like Biggio, Bagwell and Piazza (and possibly Thomas) but likely only a slowdown. That breakage has had little/no effect on Raines, Trammell, McGriff, Walker, Edgar up to this point. It will start to affect them only because Bonds, Clemens, etc. voters will run out of ballot slots soon but they were going to run out of ballot slots anyway barring an unprecedented rate of induction.
   46. Howie Menckel Posted: July 24, 2013 at 08:29 PM (#4503231)

"Is the use of the word "village" a ham handed way of making the reader feel for these old-timey good folk?:

hey, I grew up in NYS in a "hamlet."

   47. Karl from NY Posted: July 24, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4503325)
C Roy Campenella
1B Mark McGuire
2B Red Scheondeinst
SS Phil Rizutto
3B Cal Ripkin
LF Carl Yaztremski
CF Ricky Hendersen
RF Roberto Clemante
P Roger Clemons
RP Phil Neikro
   48. Lassus Posted: July 24, 2013 at 10:11 PM (#4503369)
Bitter Mouse, that is one odd thing to take issue with. Cooperstown is a village, that's what it is.

Honestly, the thing I found odd was: "Three men will be forever enshrined in the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, south of Utica."

When the hell has Utica ever been brought up in any article about Cooperstown before? Or where Cooperstown is? Wacky.
   49. Howie Menckel Posted: July 24, 2013 at 10:44 PM (#4503419)

spoiler alert: Maddux will get well over 90 pct of the vote

the thing that would prevent that would be an unexpected confession of....

otherwise, all else is irrelevant

   50. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:13 PM (#4503459)
the thing that would prevent that would be an unexpected confession of....
...sexting with Anthony Weiner?
   51. DanG Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:17 PM (#4503464)
spoiler alert: Maddux will get well over 90 pct of the vote

And that just may end up being the only name on a lot of ballots. "There, I voted for someone."
   52. Walt Davis Posted: July 24, 2013 at 11:54 PM (#4503497)
...sexting with Anthony Weiner?

Carlos "Danger" Delgado is hoping this all blows over before he hits the ballot.
   53. BrianBrianson Posted: July 25, 2013 at 05:42 AM (#4503541)
The number of people high on Glavine is bizarre.

Maddux, viewed in isolation, is obviously 99.94% likely to go in. Looking at the ballot - it's less. But he's probably ~95% likely to go in.
   54. Bitter Mouse Posted: July 25, 2013 at 08:24 AM (#4503571)
Bitter Mouse, that is one odd thing to take issue with. Cooperstown is a village, that's what it is.


Likely true, but I am a City Mouse, and have a rivaly with Congenial Mouse from the Country :)
   55. Walt Davis Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:08 PM (#4504235)
Maddux, viewed in isolation, is obviously 99.94% likely to go in. Looking at the ballot - it's less. But he's probably ~95% likely to go in.

Maddux is 99.999% likely to go in. His vote percentage might fall below 95 although I seriously doubt it.

On the other hand, Maddux not making it would prove the system is broken and the HoF would do something.
   56. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: July 25, 2013 at 06:31 PM (#4504247)
Maddux, viewed in isolation, is obviously 99.94% likely to go in. Looking at the ballot - it's less. But he's probably ~95% likely to go in.

If there's a universal concensus that a player is the best and most deserving on the ballot, it doesn't matter how crowded it is. The most crowded ballot (in terms of names per ballot) of the last 20 years was in 1999, and it had two guys get around 98% - Nolan Ryan & George Brett.

Maddux will get 98%. Maybe 97%. If anyone offers you some action on 75% or lower for him, take that damn bet - he's going well over.
   57. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: July 26, 2013 at 01:33 PM (#4504801)
In New York, each county consists of a number of "towns" (or, as some states call them, "townships"). My home county (Orange) has 20 towns.

"Villages" are incorporated places with their own mayor and village board, police and fire, etc. (Some villages share services with the town in which they reside.) There are 19 villages in Orange County.

"Cities" are basically larger villages, with all their own services. (Orange County has three: Port Jervis, Middletown and Newburgh.) Cities are old; the last city to incorporate in New York State was Rye, in 1942. (Yes, the one mentioned in "American Pie".)

"Hamlets" are unincorporated places, ranging from a few thousand people to a few houses. Some hamlets are referred to as "Census-designated places". (Don't ask.)

Actually, this article explains it better than I can...

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
greenback calls it soccer
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(2746 - 5:31pm, Oct 20)
Last: Joe Kehoskie

NewsblogPitch from Zito helped sell Hudson on Giants | MLB.com
(2 - 5:30pm, Oct 20)
Last: vortex of dissipation

NewsblogFan Returns Home Run Ball to Ishikawa; Receives World Series tickets
(10 - 5:28pm, Oct 20)
Last: Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip

NewsblogWhy Royals great Frank White no longer associates with the team whose stadium he built - Yahoo Sports
(16 - 5:23pm, Oct 20)
Last: Zach

NewsblogCalcaterra: So, if you’re not a fan of the Royals or Giants, who ya got?
(65 - 5:23pm, Oct 20)
Last: BDC

NewsblogDealing or dueling – what’s a manager to do? | MGL on Baseball
(8 - 5:17pm, Oct 20)
Last: Walt Davis

NewsblogHitting coaches blamed for lack of offense - Sports - The Boston Globe
(12 - 5:17pm, Oct 20)
Last: RMc is a fine piece of cheese

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(269 - 5:13pm, Oct 20)
Last: Manny Coon

NewsblogCould the Yankees ever be Royals? Young and athletic K.C. is everything that Bombers are not - NY Daily News
(20 - 5:11pm, Oct 20)
Last: RoyalsRetro (AG#1F)

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread, September 2014
(832 - 4:46pm, Oct 20)
Last: ursus arctos

NewsblogBrisbee: The 5 worst commercials of the MLB postseason
(121 - 4:26pm, Oct 20)
Last: JJ1986

NewsblogMorosi: Could Cain’s story make baseball king of sports world again?
(96 - 4:22pm, Oct 20)
Last: Into the Void

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-20-2014
(37 - 4:22pm, Oct 20)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogBernie Miklasz on Twitter: Matheny, when asked about not using closer T. Rosenthal in 9th
(133 - 3:55pm, Oct 20)
Last: Random Transaction Generator

NewsblogOT: NFL/NHL thread
(8360 - 3:19pm, Oct 20)
Last: zenbitz

Page rendered in 0.6387 seconds
52 querie(s) executed