Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, June 19, 2007

STL Post-Dispatch: Cards sign Ohka for look-see at AAA

Within three hours, the club signed just-released righthander Tomo Ohka to a minor-league contract, officially announced a different starting pitcher for its night game against the Kansas City Royals and then explained the switch to Kip Wells after he learned of his scratch upon entering the home clubhouse.

The swirl continues tonight when Ohka, 31, debuts for the organization at Round Rock with Class AAA Memphis. Negotiated between assistant general manager John Mozeliak and agent Jim Masteralexis, the deal stipulates Ohka be promoted within two weeks or be allowed to exercise an out clause.

FOX: Rosenthal - Cards ink Ohka to minor league deal
AP: Cardinals move Wells to bullpen

NTNgod Posted: June 19, 2007 at 08:45 PM | 22 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: cardinals

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Sparkles Peterson Posted: June 19, 2007 at 08:56 PM (#2409787)
Hopefully the first thing they'll do is sit him down with Mulder and convince him to have rotator cuff surgery so perhaps he can be a useful pitcher again as early as next year.
   2. DCW3 Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:02 PM (#2409791)
Hmm, so now both Esteban Yan and Tomokazu Ohka have been part of the Cardinals organization. Somebody in the front office must be a big Simpsons fan.
   3. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:06 PM (#2409795)
Ya'know, this has happened once before to a LaRussa team. After winning the division in somewhat surprising fashion in 1992 the pitching staff collapsed the following year. Stewart and Mike Moore left while Bob Welch and Ron Darling disintegrated into dust. The Oakland pitching staff finished last in the league in ERA and no matter how you sliced it the staff was pretty terrible.

When Bobby Witt is your "ace" you have issues. Kelly Downs made 12 starts if that tells you anything. Anyone who saw Downs pitch will understand.

One of the risks of gathering vets is that the chance always exists that the meter hits "E" on their arms. And should that happen on multiple guys at once...........Well, it ain't pretty.

Jocketty and LaRussa are smart guys. If there is a way they will find it.
   4. zonk Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:22 PM (#2409811)
Ohka's just 31, though -- so I don't know that his tank is empty (Wells is only 30, though, so maybe they're making tanks smaller nowadays).

Honestly, I think the Cards' issues all go back to Carpenter's ills... If Carpenter is in the rotation, maybe Reyes stays in the rotation and Wells goes to the pen/waiver wire. Without that one rock in the rotation, the pebbles can't really be built into anything useful.

Even as a Cubs fan, I almost feel sorry for the Cards.

Almost.
   5. NTNgod Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:24 PM (#2409813)
Ohka's just 31, though -- so I don't know that his tank is empty

Bear in mind he's attempting to pitch with a tear in his rotator cuff.
   6. phredbird Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:38 PM (#2409825)
well ... i'm not going to say we're done until somebody looks like they want to win the division ...
   7. joker24 Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:41 PM (#2409830)
Even as a Cubs fan, I almost feel sorry for the Cards.


Now THAT is a new one. The best part being that the horror show that is the 2007 St. Louis Cardinals is a HALF game back of the Cubs.
   8. Urban Bovine Knievel Posted: June 19, 2007 at 09:57 PM (#2409841)
Hmmm, it looks like Wells isn't starting tonight according to Yahoo! TLR only told Kip about it an hour or so ago. I'd guess Ohka makes one start in the minors, then is up, with Wells getting the DFA.
   9. Shibal Posted: June 19, 2007 at 10:10 PM (#2409854)
Hmmm, it looks like Wells isn't starting tonight according to Yahoo! TLR only told Kip about it an hour or so ago. I'd guess Ohka makes one start in the minors, then is up, with Wells getting the DFA.


What???? I just made a massive bet on the Over in the game tonight. Damn the luck.
   10. greenback calls it soccer Posted: June 19, 2007 at 10:21 PM (#2409867)
One of the risks of gathering vets is that the chance always exists that the meter hits "E" on their arms. And should that happen on multiple guys at once...........Well, it ain't pretty.


The Cardinals have three guys in their rotation with 19 pre-2007 career starts, two of whom were supposed to be pretty good and a third who was supposed to be serviceable. That doesn't include Looper. The problem isn't veterans on "E".
   11. andrewberg Posted: June 19, 2007 at 10:49 PM (#2409889)
The problem isn't veterans on "E".


Yea- fire Duncan! His sh!t doesn't work in the postseason, err, the regular season... at least the 2007 regular season. and he shouldn't have written that book about his kid.
   12. NTNgod Posted: June 19, 2007 at 11:17 PM (#2409911)
AP: Pitching-poor Cardinals sign Ohka to minor league contract
"I think it's a smart move to get him into our organization and see what he's got," manager Tony La Russa said. "But there's no guarantees. It depends on how he pitches."
...
"In this case, the expectation is send him to Triple-A and see how he throws," La Russa said. "If he throws better than one of the five guys we have, he's here."
   13. CraigK Posted: June 19, 2007 at 11:51 PM (#2409979)
Yay! We signed a pitcher mentioned on The Simpsons!

"I'm Tomokazu Ohka of the Montreal Expos Washington Nationals Milwaukee Brewers Toronto Blue Jays St. Louis Cardinals!"
   14. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: June 20, 2007 at 12:41 AM (#2410118)
gb:

I suspect, and I could be wrong, that the Cardinals were relying on Carpenter and Wells to help smooth the expected difficulties of the younger/untested starters. And by hitting "E" I don't mean that the players in question (Carpenter/Wells) are "done". Just that relying on pitchers that others perceive as high-risk (due to injury history or what have you) does have its, well, risks.

Because Duncan has made himself a minor legend by resurrecting veteran pitchers like Wells and Looper. Or if not necessarily bringing careers back from the dead at minimum getting more output than others thought possible.

It went kersplat in 1993 as things went awry. I was simply pointing out that these two men know this situation. And if ANYONE can get the train back on track it should be them.

What am I missing here?
   15. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: June 20, 2007 at 03:54 AM (#2410505)
Oh, that 93 A's team was painful. Although in my memory, the 1991 team was much worse, a woeful squad, and they were actually 84-78.
   16. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: June 20, 2007 at 04:10 AM (#2410523)
The most remarkable thing about that 1993 A's squad was the week when LaRussa decided to disintegrate his starting rotation entirely.
   17. SouthSideRyan Posted: June 20, 2007 at 04:31 AM (#2410533)
Even as a Cubs fan, I almost feel sorry for the Cards.


What???

Why?
   18. JoeHova Posted: June 20, 2007 at 05:27 AM (#2410549)
The most remarkable thing about that 1993 A's squad was the week when LaRussa decided to disintegrate his starting rotation entirely.



I don't remember this. What happened?
   19. esseff Posted: June 20, 2007 at 06:10 AM (#2410555)
I don't remember this. What happened?


He divided his 13-man pitching staff into three groups of three pitchers each, plus four relievers. Each of the three triads pitched every third game, with the idea that each pitcher would work three or so innings, depending on success and pitch count. The four relievers, including Eck, would be available for late game and situational matchups.
   20. esseff Posted: June 20, 2007 at 06:14 AM (#2410557)
And here's some detail on how it worked out:

With his team in sixth place on July 19, 1993, La Russa announced his radical new pitching plan, as I outlined above. Todd Van Poppel, Ron Darling and Kelly Downs would be Group A; Mike Mohler, Bobby Witt and John Briscoe Group B; and Bob Welch, Shawn Hillegas and Goose Gossage Group C. Each group would pitch every three games. Edwin Nunez, Joe Boever, Vince Horsman and Eckersley would be the short men.

From the start, things never went according to plan. Kevin Campbell replaced Downs in Group A, but still didn't pitch in the first game as Van Poppel and Darling worked 4 innings each in a 4-2 loss. The second game, a 9-5 loss, Mohler went 1 2/3, Boever 1/3, Campbell 1, Witt 4 and Briscoe 1.

In Game 3, Downs (replacing Hillegas) went 4, Welch 3, Horsman 0+, Gossage 1 and Eck 1 in a 7-2 win.

In Game 4, a 9-7 loss, Van Poppel (on two days' rest) went 2 2/3, Campbell 1 1/3, Darling 3 (also on two days' rest) and Nunez 1.

In Game 5, Mohler went 3, Witt 4, Eck 2 and Gossage 2/3 in a 6-5 loss. Mohler and Witt were working on two days' rest, with Witt throwing four innings each time -- the most radical departure from the conventional use of having pitchers throw long every five days, or short every day or two.

By Game 6, La Russa was stretching out his old starters: Downs went 4 2/3 -- giving him 8 2/3 over two games in the span of about 72 hours -- Horsman 1/3 and Boever 3. The A's lost 5-3

The next night, Welch went 4 1/3, Rick Honeycutt rejoined the team and went 2/3, Campbell 2 and Horsman 1. The A's lost 8-1.

After going 1-6, La Russa ended the experiment, and Darling became the first A's pitcher in a week to qualify for a win, going 6 innings in a 11-4 victory.
   21. JoeHova Posted: June 20, 2007 at 08:46 AM (#2410566)
Wow. Interesting stuff, thanks for the recap. It kind of seems like a good idea, but you can see why it wouldn't have worked.
   22. Dr. Vaux Posted: June 20, 2007 at 09:37 AM (#2410570)
He had the right idea for the ego problem, putting the pitchers who were used to being starters in the middle, where they could be awarded the "win." It actually makes quite a bit of sense to have a reliever start the game and pitch the first two or three innings, then bring in the five-to-seven inning guy, with other relievers waiting in the wings. A manager might be able to have some sustained success with a model like that.

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
tshipman
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogJULY 31 2014 OMNICHATTER/TRADE DEADLINE CHATTER
(186 - 3:40pm, Jul 31)
Last: Random Transaction Generator

NewsblogOTP - July 2014: Republicans Lose To Democrats For Sixth Straight Year In Congressional Baseball Game
(3900 - 3:40pm, Jul 31)
Last: tshipman

NewsblogA's Acquire Lester, Gomes For Cespedes
(121 - 3:40pm, Jul 31)
Last: TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser

NewsblogRed Sox trade rumors: 'Very good chance' John Lackey and Jon Lester are traded - Over the Monster
(90 - 3:36pm, Jul 31)
Last: Infinite Joost (Voxter)

NewsblogGeorge "The Animal" Steele Mangles A Baseball
(151 - 3:29pm, Jul 31)
Last: andrewberg

NewsblogAthletics, Twins Swap Tommy Milone, Sam Fuld
(14 - 3:25pm, Jul 31)
Last: A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose)

NewsblogHardball Talk: Calcaterra: Nationals-Orioles TV Money Dispute about to Explode
(13 - 3:25pm, Jul 31)
Last: I am Ted F'ing Williams

NewsblogCardinals Acquire John Lackey
(84 - 3:21pm, Jul 31)
Last: esseff

NewsblogSOE: Minor League Manhood - A first-hand account of masculine sports culture run amok.
(178 - 2:56pm, Jul 31)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-31-2014
(16 - 2:39pm, Jul 31)
Last: Davo Dozier

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread- July 2014
(1049 - 2:33pm, Jul 31)
Last: Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim

NewsblogDifference of opinion on baseball stats as Derek Jeter climbs all-time hits list
(17 - 2:19pm, Jul 31)
Last: Ron J2

NewsblogWhy the Mets Are Right to Save the New York State Pavilion
(11 - 2:12pm, Jul 31)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogOT: The Soccer Thread July, 2014
(543 - 1:57pm, Jul 31)
Last: frannyzoo

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 7-30-2014
(25 - 1:43pm, Jul 31)
Last: RMc's desperate, often sordid world

Page rendered in 0.1705 seconds
52 querie(s) executed