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Monday, February 08, 2010

STLouis Today: Figler: A call for neater autographs

I remember endlessly practicing my autograph during catechism…until Sister O’Beastly caught me, made me kneel on a pointer and stepped on my fingers.

Youngsters in particular treasure a signed baseball by their favorite player. Of course, sports cards are always valued, but not like a ball signed by an Albert Pujols or a Yadier Molina.

It always angers me that some athletes will go to great lengths to sign legibly, and others will scribble their name, and be done with it. Personally, I think it is a travesty for an athlete to sign his name in such a way that you cannot decipher what it says. Now I realize that players sign so much that it is ridiculous, and naturally some players sign more than others, but you can’t tell me that a player can’t at least write two or three letters that can be read by the average person. But sadly that is the case. Give me back those days when players took pride in their penmanship. Not today.

...It is a sad state of events when a father brings home a baseball to his daughter or son of their favorite player and they have to ask who the signature is of. A neighbor told me once that his son was a Rusty Greer fan. Greer had some good years with the Texas Rangers, but was far from a remarkable player. Well anyway, my neighbor brought home a ball signed by Greg Maddux. Keep in mind that Maddux, one of the best pitchers in baseball history, does not have a signature that can be read. My neighbor convinced his son that the signature was of Rusty Greer, and the youngster was ecstatic. A few years later he was told the truth.

Athletes of the world, make kids, and collectors, happy. Write a little neater. Please.

Repoz Posted: February 08, 2010 at 02:05 PM | 37 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: fantasy baseball, history, memorabilia

Reader Comments and Retorts

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   1. Famous Original Joe C Posted: February 08, 2010 at 02:34 PM (#3455900)
Come on MLB offseason, you can do it! You can end soon and give these guys something to write about, can't you?
   2. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: February 08, 2010 at 02:40 PM (#3455902)
Athletes of the world, make kids, and collectors, happy. Write a little neater. Please.

"Dear Mr. President, There are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three. P.S. I am not a crackpot."
   3. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 08, 2010 at 02:43 PM (#3455903)
I blame it all on JFK.
   4. flournoy Posted: February 08, 2010 at 02:51 PM (#3455904)
Oh please. When I was seven years old, I practiced my cool illegible signature that I could use when I was a famous MLB star. I didn't make the bigs, but I mastered the signature. I sign in such a manner to this day; you cannot make out a single letter.
   5. joker24 Posted: February 08, 2010 at 03:20 PM (#3455913)
This guy really, really underrates how much time these guys spend signing ####. #### autographs anyway, it's pen on a ball. Unless there's a legitimate story behind it, I just don't get the phenomenon of autographs.
   6. Flynn Posted: February 08, 2010 at 03:24 PM (#3455917)
Was this article written by the guy who criticized Barry Bonds for not wanting other people to make money off his autograph in another thread?
   7. RJ in TO Posted: February 08, 2010 at 03:28 PM (#3455919)
Does anyone know if these athletes actually have two signatures - one that they use for signing memorabilia, and the other that they use for the actual day-to-day official stuff? I'd assume that they would, since it strikes me as a bad idea for them to be using their "banking" signature on everything, when it's so easy for some scammer/thief to get a copy of some baseball they've signed.
   8. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 08, 2010 at 03:39 PM (#3455922)
Does anyone know if these athletes actually have two signatures - one that they use for signing memorabilia, and the other that they use for the actual day-to-day official stuff? I'd assume that they would, since it strikes me as a bad idea for them to be using their "banking" signature on everything, when it's so easy for some scammer/thief to get a copy of some baseball they've signed.


I would assume that a signature is tough to change from signing to signing intentionally. Still, I imagine that signing a document laid on a desk results in a better signature than a signature made on a baseball or a program signed in a rush by the dugout fence.

And I did the same thing at flournoy. Like him I got the signature down pat but the swing still needs some work.
   9. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 08, 2010 at 03:46 PM (#3455926)
This guy really, really underrates how much time these guys spend signing ####. #### autographs

And at such low pay, too. What a tough life.

Unless there's a legitimate story behind it, I just don't get the phenomenon of autographs.

I don't, either, but----if you're going to charge for it, you should at least be able to make it legible. A half literate Babe Ruth probably signed more balls than all but a handful of modern stars, and every one of his signatures is as clear as day.
   10. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 08, 2010 at 03:52 PM (#3455928)
Yeah, illegible handwriting is a freaking "travesty," like the earthquake in Haiti and the hurricane in New Orleans.
   11. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 08, 2010 at 04:02 PM (#3455933)
Yeah, illegible handwriting is a freaking "travesty," like the earthquake in Haiti and the hurricane in New Orleans.

Kid: Hey, I just paid you fifty bucks and I can't even read what your name is.

Player: Buckle up, punk, and just be grateful that you still have a house!
   12. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2010 at 04:15 PM (#3455943)
Harmon Killebrew takes pride in his handwriting and he nudges the young Twins players to produce a legible signature.
   13. bunyon Posted: February 08, 2010 at 04:17 PM (#3455945)
Market forces. If people are forking over money for illegible signatures, why would they change? If people really are disappointed in these signatures (which, in my limited experience, look no different today than they did 30 years ago) then quit buying them.

If you go to a restaurant and pay $50 for a lousy meal, you don't go back, order more food but include a message to "make it taste better" - you simply don't go back.


I'd be all for a world where no one paid these guys for their autographs and no one bought autographed merchandise second-hand. But, in the mean time, I don't see where either party has any reason to gripe all that much about what is, completely, a voluntary transaction of a good that has no intrinsic value.
   14. joker24 Posted: February 08, 2010 at 04:22 PM (#3455952)
I don't, either, but----if you're going to charge for it, you should at least be able to make it legible. A half literate Babe Ruth probably signed more balls than all but a handful of modern stars, and every one of his signatures is as clear as day.


I agree with the charging thing, except 99% of these guys are just signing stuff for fans for free. There's no reason for them to sign this stuff other than to be good to the fans, they don't get paid for it unless it's being paid for by the baseball card goofballs. I'm sorry, if a guy can put his "mark" on the ball in 3 seconds instead of 8, that's saving everyone involved hours.

I also doubt quite a bit that Ruth signed more than even most modern players, there weren't nearly as many fans (attendance topped out at about 1 million for the Yanks and crowd sizes averaging 5000 aren't rare from my eyeballing) and I could be wrong, but I don't think there was nearly the celebrity culture there is now.
   15. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 08, 2010 at 04:31 PM (#3455962)
Conservatively I would say that 90% of these autographs never get looked at again. There is no incentive for anyone signing to be too concerned over something that is going to be discarded within 24 hours.
   16. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 08, 2010 at 04:33 PM (#3455964)
Market forces. If people are forking over money for illegible signatures, why would they change? If people really are disappointed in these signatures (which, in my limited experience, look no different today than they did 30 years ago) then quit buying them.

If you go to a restaurant and pay $50 for a lousy meal, you don't go back, order more food but include a message to "make it taste better" - you simply don't go back.


I don't disagree with this, and as I said, I have absolutely no idea why anyone would pay money for an autograph that didn't have an interesting association (like Ted Williams' signature alongside Updike's Hub Fans Bid Kid Adieu) or a personalized touch that actually meant something. But that still doesn't negate the essential smallness of the player's refusal to take the trouble to make a legible signature.

--------------------

I agree with the charging thing, except 99% of these guys are just signing stuff for fans for free. I'm sorry, if a guy can put his "mark" on the ball in 3 seconds instead of 8, that's saving everyone involved hours.

I should have made it clear that I was talking almost entirely about players who charge for their autographs, not players who are faced with long lines of fans and not charging them.

And of course the reason Babe Ruth's signature was so neat was because in Ruth's day penmanship was taught in every school. If Ruth were around today he'd likely be scrawling with the best (or worst) of them.
   17. TribeGuy Posted: February 08, 2010 at 05:05 PM (#3455979)
I like collecting autographs. I have about 150 autographed balls and hundreds of signed cards. I don't buy autographs I didn't get myself, but I will pay at a card show to get a player to sign a ball. I guess for me the autograph and the ball is more of a reminder that I was once in the same space as that player and that he took the time to sign something.

I actually keep a database of each autographed ball I have and try to include any interesting notes about the encounter. Was the location interesting? (At the ballpark or at a show?) Did the player say anything? Did anything interesting happen? (Frank Robinson held my infant daughter for a picture.)

So I guess I would say it is nice when a player's signature is legible. But for me personally the biggest thing is to know that if it is a scribble at least it is a consistent scribble that other folks can say "yup, that's Greg Maddux's mark" even if you can't read Greg Maddux, otherwise it really is just a pen mark on the ball. And although I know the origin, it really detracts from other people, especially non-baseball fans, from being able to look at it and feel like they are seeing anything of value.
   18. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 08, 2010 at 05:23 PM (#3456001)
If you don't even know who the player is, why are you getting his autograph?
   19. Crispix Attacks Posted: February 08, 2010 at 05:28 PM (#3456008)
Who are you asking that to?
   20. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 08, 2010 at 05:41 PM (#3456024)
So I guess I would say it is nice when a player's signature is legible. But for me personally the biggest thing is to know that if it is a scribble at least it is a consistent scribble

That sentence walks such a fine line between parody and sincerity that I'd almost have to give it a Primey.
   21. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: February 08, 2010 at 07:07 PM (#3456086)
How many peoples' signatures are legible, to the last letter? It would take more time for me to sign my name legibly than it would be to print it. And if I did sign legibly, it would look like a third grader's cursive practice sheet.
   22. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: February 08, 2010 at 07:38 PM (#3456117)
Who are you asking that to?


Anyone who feels like answering.
   23. RJ in TO Posted: February 08, 2010 at 07:48 PM (#3456124)
How many peoples' signatures are legible, to the last letter?


Mine is barely legible to the first letter.
   24. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2010 at 07:52 PM (#3456129)
> in Ruth's day penmanship was taught in every school

Today we teach things kids might need to know to function in society. I am continually irritated that hours of instruction time are lost each year trying to teach cursive writing. Quill pens and inkwells are long dead.
   25. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 08, 2010 at 08:22 PM (#3456154)
in Ruth's day penmanship was taught in every school

Today we teach things kids might need to know to function in society. I am continually irritated that hours of instruction time are lost each year trying to teach cursive writing. Quill pens and inkwells are long dead.


Well, gee, I guess we shouldn't be teaching anything other than how to buy low and sell high, or how to be a model or a TV personality. Who needs to learn stupid things such as arithmetic, grammar, spelling, or punctuation? You can always hire some teenager from Bangladesh to do all that crap for you.

Look, I wasn't trying to impute any sort of moral superiority to good penmanship; unless I make an effort my handwriting's as bad as it gets, though it's not as bad as my (6 years worth of) French. But when you're charging for an autograph you really should give the poor chump something more than an illegible scrawl.
   26. gef the talking mongoose Posted: February 08, 2010 at 08:38 PM (#3456172)
Harmon Killebrew takes pride in his handwriting and he nudges the young Twins players to produce a legible signature.


The Killer was my favorite player as a kid, but I've got to say that the autograph I got from him on a mailed-in 3x5 index card back in the early '70s is ... well, not illegible, certainly, but also not exactly a model of clarity or anything. Of course, his name does have a whole lot of letters.
   27. TribeGuy Posted: February 08, 2010 at 10:23 PM (#3456293)
To Jolly Old St. Neck Wound:

I was being sincere for what it's worth. Some players' autographs are scribbles and to a non-collector they are illegible. But some players, like Maddux, have a consistent scribble that collectors look at and say "ah ha, that's Greg Maddux's signature." So I guess as long as a player has established a consistent way of signing his name I don't mind how they sign it. To me and other collectors they know who's signature it is.

Though I wish more players would sign legibly.
   28. DL from MN Posted: February 08, 2010 at 10:41 PM (#3456324)
They should quit spending time to teach 10 year olds how to make loopy letters in order to not have to pick up the pen and drip ink. They should absolutely replace this time with time spent on grammar, spelling and punctuation. Communication skills are perhaps the most important skills someone can learn. Math skills are next on the list. On the other hand, I stopped writing in cursive when I got out of 6th grade and never looked back. Ball point pens made cursive handwriting irrelevant and word processing has destroyed whatever vestiges of usefulness that remained. It's a waste of teaching resources to spend time on cursive handwriting. I suppose you could put it in art class with other forms of calligraphy.

My guess is if you sent your 3x5 card to Harmon and asked for a better autograph you'd get one.
   29. Rich Rifkin Posted: February 08, 2010 at 10:56 PM (#3456337)
I'm sure I am not alone in having a horrible time signing my name on those electronic thing-a-ma-jibs you have to "sign" when you pay with a credit card. It's hard for me to recognize what comes out being my signature. I'm not sure what good they do for anyone else. It's the same thing when I have to electronically sign for package deliveries. I start with poor penmanship and technology has made it worse for me. Fortunately, no young boys have requested I sign their balls.
   30. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 08, 2010 at 11:26 PM (#3456368)
To Jolly Old St. Neck Wound:

I was being sincere for what it's worth. Some players' autographs are scribbles and to a non-collector they are illegible. But some players, like Maddux, have a consistent scribble that collectors look at and say "ah ha, that's Greg Maddux's signature." So I guess as long as a player has established a consistent way of signing his name I don't mind how they sign it. To me and other collectors they know who's signature it is.


I can see that, though if I were going to pay money for a signature I'd still much rather have it be readable to someone other than myself and a handful of fellow collectors. The difference really shows up in team signed balls. Look at one of those from the 50's and it's easy to tell who all the players are, even the roster fillers you'd never heard of. Look at one from today, and forget it. And any future collector or historian who has to try to decipher many of today's signatures is going to go absolutely nuts.

They should quit spending time to teach 10 year olds how to make loopy letters in order to not have to pick up the pen and drip ink. They should absolutely replace this time with time spent on grammar, spelling and punctuation. Communication skills are perhaps the most important skills someone can learn. Math skills are next on the list. On the other hand, I stopped writing in cursive when I got out of 6th grade and never looked back. Ball point pens made cursive handwriting irrelevant and word processing has destroyed whatever vestiges of usefulness that remained. It's a waste of teaching resources to spend time on cursive handwriting. I suppose you could put it in art class with other forms of calligraphy.

I wouldn't argue with any of that, though is it true that they actually still teach cursive in public schools? Maybe the reason my own handwriting is so bad is that cheap ball point pens were just coming into widespread use when I was being taught handwriting, and as you say, with ball point pens all those fancy maneuvers aren't necessary.

OTOH I'm sure as hell glad they taught me how to type in 8th grade.
   31. gef the talking mongoose Posted: February 08, 2010 at 11:30 PM (#3456372)
is it true that they actually still teach cursive in public schools?


I'm pretty sure my former stepdaughter was complaining on Facebook a couple of weeks ago that her daughter (who's probably in 2nd grade or thereabouts) was having to learn it.
   32. DL from MN Posted: February 09, 2010 at 12:00 AM (#3456399)
Cursive handwriting is a standard part of MN public school curriculum from 3rd to 5th grade.

Typing is an important skill that should be substituted. If voice recognition software finally breaks through and replaces the keyboard I would hope they stop teaching that as well.

We could have a whole nother discussion about the emphasis on teaching names/dates who/when/where history while neglecting civics.
   33. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 09, 2010 at 12:19 AM (#3456412)
Cursive handwriting is a standard part of MN public school curriculum from 3rd to 5th grade.

Typing is an important skill that should be substituted. If voice recognition software finally breaks through and replaces the keyboard I would hope they stop teaching that as well.


You might want to think that one through a bit more, unless you're cool with reducing mankind to a purely spoken language.
   34. God Posted: February 09, 2010 at 12:51 AM (#3456431)
Fortunately, no young boys have requested I sign their balls.

And therein lies the difference between Rich Rifkin and Brett Pedroia.
   35. Perros Posted: February 09, 2010 at 03:07 AM (#3456517)
nobody else thinks it's profoundly wrong for a father to tell a trusting child that greg maddux's signature is rusty greer's?
   36. DL from MN Posted: February 09, 2010 at 03:25 AM (#3456530)
Why would you teach someone how to use a keyboard if they are never used in practice? Why would you teach someone how to use a quill pen?

Of course people should be taught to print. They should also be taught how to use a word processor.
   37. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: February 09, 2010 at 03:59 AM (#3456557)
Why would you teach someone how to use a keyboard if they are never used in practice? Why would you teach someone how to use a quill pen?

I'm sure I'm missing something here, but what are you using to write your posts? I'm not saying that people should be learning typing on an old Underwood or IBM Selectric, but without mastering the QWERTY keyboard it's kind of hard to express yourself in any kind of written format. Unless, of course, you want to go back to a quill pen.

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