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Saturday, August 29, 2009

Stone: Even without his numbers from Japan, Ichiro will be in the Hall of Fame

All BBWAA members have been blinded…from their site.

But in taking periodic polls of my colleagues in the Baseball Writers’ Association of America, I’m now here to say definitively: That issue is moot. Ichiro is poised to make the Hall of Fame entirely on the merits of what he has accomplished in his eight-plus years, and counting, with the Mariners.

In my latest informal survey of BBWAA members who have the requisite 10 years to be eligible for Hall of Fame voting, the vast majority said they now considered Ichiro to be a Hall of Famer exclusive of his Japanese accomplishments.

...Nick Cafordo, Boston Globe: “I would vote for him on just Mariner merits. I believe a player should be judged by the impact of his career. He’d be in that Koufax, Pedro, Puckett category for me.”

Kevin Kernan, New York Post: “Having covered a hit-man like Tony Gwynn on a daily basis and doing the same now with Derek Jeter, I know an upper echelon Hall of Fame player when I see one and Ichiro is, in my book, a Hall of Famer from his major-league accomplishments.”

Tom Haudricourt, Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel: “In my opinion, Ichiro has been one of the dominant players in the major leagues for a decade or so, which is all he has been able to play. That’s probably going to be good enough to get my vote, especially considering he has plenty of gas left in his tank, apparently.

“P.S. — It won’t hurt that he appears to be a ‘clean’ player during the steroid era.”

Repoz Posted: August 29, 2009 at 09:59 PM | 35 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
Tags: hall of fame, history, international, japan, mariners

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1. Athletic Supporter leads the nation in drifters Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:08 PM (#3308724)

Koufax, Pedro, Puckett category for me.

One of these things does not belong.

2. Russlan will never be fond of Jason Bay Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:15 PM (#3308731)

Do you guys think Ichiro will make it to 3000 hits?

3. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:36 PM (#3308748)

Koufax, Pedro, Puckett category for me.

One of these things does not belong.

whaddya mean?

these guys were groundbreakers

4. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:40 PM (#3308751)

Hmm. Great topic. Why haven't we ever discussed it around here before?

5. Chase Utley, Shooty's Favorite Robot (Joey Belle) Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:44 PM (#3308755)

Ray DiPerna must have some thoughts on this.

6. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:50 PM (#3308762)

Ray DiPerna must have some thoughts on this.

It's been nearly an hour. Maybe someone should look in on him and see if he's all right.

7. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:55 PM (#3308766)

There is no such thing as Japan time, Japanese baseball or Japan at all.
Also: OPS+, Roberto Petagine, and NATIONAL Baseball Hall of Fame (plus Canada)

8. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 29, 2009 at 10:58 PM (#3308768)

There is no such thing as ... Japan at all.

You need to tell that to my grandfather and great uncle who were carrier pilots in the Pacific in WWII. They would be surprised. Actually, I would be surprised too as they are both dead now.

9. Shock Posted: August 29, 2009 at 11:24 PM (#3308783)

Have you never seen an Eraser-X post before?

Lucky.

10. JE

Posted: August 29, 2009 at 11:46 PM (#3308788)

Kevin Kernan, New York Post: “Having covered a hit-man like Tony Gwynn on a daily basis and doing the same now with Derek Jeter, I know an upper echelon Hall of Fame player when I see one and Ichiro is, in my book, a Hall of Famer from his major-league accomplishments.”

Just curious: why was it so critical for a Seattle Times reporter to go nearly 3K miles for Kevin Kernan's informed judgment? He may as well have asked Liz Smith.

11. jwb Posted: August 30, 2009 at 12:37 AM (#3308810)

Just curious: why was it so critical for a Seattle Times reporter to go nearly 3K miles for Kevin Kernan's informed judgment?

In my latest informal survey of BBWAA members

He's just trying to show that there is a national pro-Ichiro sentiment and this isn't just his homerific point of view. He probably trolls the press box between innings for quotes like this.

12. Pat Rapper's Delight Posted: August 30, 2009 at 12:44 AM (#3308814)

Including estimated LinWts Batting Runs from the recently posted ZIPS translations, Virtual Ichiro Suzuki has just a hair over 200 Batting Runs in his virtual career... well below the career totals of even non-HoF corner OF like Harold Baines, David Justice, Dave Parker, Dale Murphy, and Andre Dawson. For years 1-7, his OPS+'s sorted in descending order are also a good step less than all these guys.... and these are "just" the HoVG guys, not even the Gwynn, Clemente, Billy Williams, Winfield class of corner OFs.

Oh sure, he will go, probably with a % well over 90, but I'm not so sure anymore he should go. He has neither the peak value nor the career value (to this point) of the standards of a HoF corner outfielder, even giving him credit for what ZIPS says his time in Japan was worth.

13. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: August 30, 2009 at 12:56 AM (#3308819)

I see Mr. Clap-Clap is Ray's DH here. Stupid American League rules!

14. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: August 30, 2009 at 01:44 AM (#3308861)

I have no idea what I did to warrant that response, but I sure hope that it's replicable.

15. RJ in TO Posted: August 30, 2009 at 01:54 AM (#3308870)

Just to save everyone some time, here's the last "Does Ichiro deserve induction into the Hall of Fame" thread.

If your argument for or against was previously made there, then your work for the evening is already done.

16. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: August 30, 2009 at 02:49 AM (#3308911)

Koufax, Pedro, Puckett category for me.

No Jews in the HOF!!!!!

17. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:03 AM (#3308915)

No Jews in the HOF!!!!!

Don't tell that to the Learned Elders of Zion, since they've spent the last 164 years plotting the Jewish takeover of baseball. They'd get pissed and order all the pork taken out of your ballpark franks.

18. AROM Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:14 AM (#3308920)

No Jews in the HOF!!!!!

I'd watch out posting that. The bear jew wants your scalp now.

19. Earvin 'Gold Stars' Johnson Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:24 AM (#3308923)

I wish baseball would follow basketball's lead and welcome Hall of Famers from around the globe.

20. Lassus Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:24 AM (#3308924)

The bear jew wants your scalp now.

I doubt that's actually what Bruce Villanch wants.

21. bookbook Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:28 AM (#3308925)

Pedro's Jewish? I had no idea.

22. Ray (RDP)

Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:57 AM (#3308939)

Just to save everyone some time, here's the last "Does Ichiro deserve induction into the Hall of Fame" thread.

If your argument for or against was previously made there, then your work for the evening is already done.

There's probably nothing more obnoxious than when someone pops up in a thread to tell those who are discussing an issue that the discussion is a waste of time since the issue was already discussed.

If you think it's a waste of time to participate then there's a very simple solution: don't participate.

23. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: August 30, 2009 at 04:59 AM (#3308968)

It's been nearly an hour. Maybe someone should look in on him and see if he's all right.

I was surprised to see Ray on page 1. I usually don't see him on short threads.

24. Dan Szymborski

Posted: August 30, 2009 at 05:34 AM (#3308998)

Including estimated LinWts Batting Runs from the recently posted ZIPS translations, Virtual Ichiro Suzuki has just a hair over 200 Batting Runs in his virtual career... well below the career totals of even non-HoF corner OF like Harold Baines, David Justice, Dave Parker, Dale Murphy, and Andre Dawson. For years 1-7, his OPS+'s sorted in descending order are also a good step less than all these guys.... and these are "just" the HoVG guys, not even the Gwynn, Clemente, Billy Williams, Winfield class of corner OFs.

You're giving Ichiro's defense short shrift. Smith has him at 107 runs better than average in the US, Lichtman has him at 81. That pushes him to a reasonable HoF level, though not the equal of some better players today that won't get in.

25. Ray (RDP)

Posted: August 30, 2009 at 06:16 AM (#3309013)

That pushes him to a reasonable HoF level,

In just 1400 games?

26. greenback

Posted: August 30, 2009 at 07:03 AM (#3309025)

In just 1400 games?

It shouldn't be that hard to believe. The other 2001 ROY is already in Smith's top fifty position players for career WAR.

27. CFiJ Posted: August 30, 2009 at 09:34 AM (#3309034)

In just 1400 games?

Aren't Dan and Two-Oh Clap Clap discussing the Virtual Ichiro of 3178 games?

28. Swoboda is freedom Posted: August 30, 2009 at 10:48 AM (#3309041)

Pedro's Jewish? I had no idea.

Well, he likes to hit people in the temple.

29. RMc is the loyal supporter of the MLB event Posted: August 30, 2009 at 12:12 PM (#3309045)

Any BBWAA member who votes for or against Ichiro! is a racist.

That is all.

30. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 30, 2009 at 02:31 PM (#3309065)

Pedro's Jewish? I had no idea.

Well, he likes to hit people in the temple.

But he felt no guilt about it.

31. alilisd Posted: August 30, 2009 at 02:41 PM (#3309074)

It shouldn't be that hard to believe. The other 2001 ROY is already in Smith's top fifty position players for career WAR.

Nice!

32. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder. Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:03 PM (#3309080)

There's probably nothing more obnoxious than when someone pops up in a thread to tell those who are discussing an issue that the discussion is a waste of time since the issue was already discussed.

If you think it's a waste of time to participate then there's a very simple solution: don't participate. who tells other posters when they should participate in a thread.

FTFY Ray-Ray

33. bfan Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:23 PM (#3309087)

Just to save everyone some time, here's the last "Does Ichiro deserve induction into the Hall of Fame" thread.

Yes, but Ichiro's performance over the last month has solidified his HOF resume; much has happened since July 21.

34. CFiJ Posted: August 30, 2009 at 03:24 PM (#3309088)

Seriously, nothing more obnoxious than either of those two? I gotta think Carrot Top's up there, as are drunken frat boys.

35. JE

Posted: August 30, 2009 at 04:02 PM (#3309107)

He's just trying to show that there is a national pro-Ichiro sentiment and this isn't just his homerific point of view. He probably trolls the press box between innings for quotes like this.

I had meant, why ask bother trolling for a meaningful thought from Kernan, the guy whose significant contribution to analysis includes this beauty.

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Saturday, August 29, 2009

Stone: Even without his numbers from Japan, Ichiro will be in the Hall of Fame

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