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Monday, November 09, 2009

Stone: Why I’m feeling (slightly) better about Edgar Martinez’s Hall of Fame chances

As environmentalist turned professional homer, Paul Hawken Harrelson, once noted…“Baseball is connected ... no one thing can change by itself.”

Posnanski goes on to say that he doesn’t think Martinez will make it, and I don’t either—not the first time around. But articles like this by prominent national writers like Posnanski could begin to change the perception of Martinez as just a DH with good numbers. He’s a DH with great numbers—brilliant numbers, ones that I sense will be illuminated more brightly than I had previously imagined by the legion of great baseball thinkers that populate the writing world these days..

Some work for newspapers, and some are the 10-year members of the Baseball Writers Association of America who will make the ultimate call on Martinez. Many are not; they’re the so-called citizen-journalists and bloggers who are changing our world (the world of journalism; my world) so dramatically. I’m not ashamed to say that I’ve learned a whole bunch by opening my mind and realizing that there are newer, and better, ways to evaluate performance than the ones I adhered to, stubbornly, for so long. I’m not the only one. This statistical and analytical revolution, of sorts, should aid candidates like Martinez as it slowly takes hold and filters into the mainstream, as is already happening.

The Mariners are preparing a packet of information on Martinez’s credentials to send to national writers and potential Hall of Fame voters. It all helps. I’m more convinced now than I used to be that Edgar Martinez will, indeed, one day be voted into the Hall of Fame. And that day might be sooner than we had dared hope

Repoz Posted: November 09, 2009 at 05:08 PM | 105 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, history, mariners, sabermetrics

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   101. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: November 11, 2009 at 04:17 AM (#3384641)
One more try. Back at 46, I asked:

One thing that rarely comes up in these discussions: it's generally held that hitting as a DH is more difficult than hitting as a hitter that also plays in the field (whether this is a learning curve issue, hidden variables (dh more often when you've got a nagging injury, etc...) or something else, I don't know. How do / should we account for this?


What say ye? Judging by the thread Blackadder linked @82 - look starting at post 40, opinions are mixed (Tango gives "extra credit", Walt Davis, among others, doesn't).
   102. Jeff K. Posted: November 11, 2009 at 04:23 AM (#3384642)
Anyone care to answer my #69?
   103. Kiko Sakata Posted: November 11, 2009 at 04:34 AM (#3384647)
Back at 46, I asked:

One thing that rarely comes up in these discussions: it's generally held that hitting as a DH is more difficult than hitting as a hitter that also plays in the field (whether this is a learning curve issue, hidden variables (dh more often when you've got a nagging injury, etc...) or something else, I don't know. How do / should we account for this?


What say ye?


I say that you do account for it. From what I've seen, it's a real effect - players tend to hit worse when they DH or PH (the latter much moreso). Basically, I think you just use the average production at DH as your baseline for measuring DH value (adjusted for replacement level however you want to do it). To the extent that incorporates the fact that players hit worse as DHs than as position players, then I say that affects their value.

Anyone care to answer my #69?

What the hell are "TZ ifDP OFarm Pos Rep"?


TZ = Total Zone, which is a fielding measure calculated by AROM based on Retrosheet play-by-play data
ifDP = infield double-plays, which I assume is some defensive measure of an infielder's ability to turn double plays
OFarm = Outfield arm, which measures the defensive value of outfielder arms
Pos = Positional adjustment - negative for big-hitting positions (1B, DH), positive for big-fielding positions (SS, C)
Rep = adjustment for Replacement level - I think that everything before that is measured relative to average, so this just blows things up from above average to above replacement level; I have no idea how AROM actually does this
   104. Slivers of Maranville (SdeB) Posted: November 11, 2009 at 06:19 AM (#3384681)

In fact, I suspect that this sort of punishment is mostly inappropriate. "The notion of opportunity cost plays a crucial part in ensuring that scarce resources are used efficiently" says Wiki. So, if you have Edgar Martinez on your team, how do you maximize his value, his efficiency? You play him at DH, of course, while constructing your team knowing you don't have the option of playing anyone else at DH.


But we're not holding a fantasy draft, we're talking Hall of Fame. If he farted hundred-dollar bills, he'd be most useful to the team in the owner's box, but I wouldn't give him any credit for that, either.
   105. Jeff K. Posted: November 11, 2009 at 07:17 AM (#3384698)
Okay, I knew TZ then, and the others are just broken out where you don't normally see them as such.
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