When Orioles manager Buck Showalter penciled in Chris Davis – the team’s everyday first baseman – into the designated hitter spot for Sunday’s series finale against the Red Sox, he certainly couldn’t have anticipated where Davis would end up in the game.
But after a six–hour, seven-minute, 17-inning marathon at Fenway Park, Davis – who struck out five times in seven at-bats at the plate – turned out to be the most unlikeliest winning pitcher.
After the Orioles used all eight available relievers, Davis went to the mound and threw two scoreless innings, helping the Orioles to a 9-6 win over the Red Sox.
Center fielder Adam Jones, moments after playing a part in a game-saving defensive play in the 16th, hit a three-run homer off Darnell McDonald – the Red Sox’s DH – over the Green Monster in left field for his team-high eighth homer of the season.
The Orioles earned their first three-game sweep at Fenway Park in 18 years, but the better news out of Boston is that two struggling bats have suddenly come to life.
Baltimore’s win sealed their fifth straight win in Boston and their first three-game sweep of the Red Sox here since June 10-12, 1994.
After their second extra-inning win in three games here, the Orioles will arrive home from their six-game road trip to New York and Boston sitting atop the AL East standings with a 19-9 record, a half-game in front of the Rays, and tied for the best record in baseball going into Sunday night.
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1. Dan Posted: May 06, 2012 at 09:02 PM (#4125030)The last time both teams put in positional players to pitch in the same game: Ty Cobb v George Sisler (1925)
The last American League positional player to switch to pitcher and win the game was.....Rocky Colavito (1968) (edited-thanks)
The last player to start in the lineup and get the win as a pitcher was....Babe Ruth
And quiet as it's kept, the Orioles now have the best record in baseball. All I can say to that is "wow".
EDIT: Both a coke and a correction to DKDC. Colavito won that game as a Yankee in 1968, not 1958.
Darnell McDonald had more negative WPA: he got the loss and grounded into a double play to end the game.
And I missed this live, but apparently Matt Wieters didn't appreciate the shoulder Byrd threw in the bottom of the 16th. I think you usually show the ball to the umpire...
That must have been some game. 17 runs in an hour and 42 minutes. Cobb got the save and neither of them allowed a run.
Davis said after the game that the off-speed was a split-finger. I think he struck out Gonzalez on the same pitch.
Davis did not have nearly as good stuff when pitching from the stretch. He lost a good 5 MPH and elevated the fastball.
They don't have an off day for 18 days and they now have to face the Rangers for 4 at home, then the Rays for 3, then the Yankees for 2. All of this with a completely depleted bullpen. It won't last much longer, but it's been a blast.
One would think that with 12-man pitching staffs, managers would be better prepared to go deeper into a game with real pitchers.
Now what exactly can Byrd do that Daniel Nava can't?
Adrian Gonzalez has really not consistently driven the ball since the ASB last year. He continued to hit well because of unsustainably high BABIP on line drives and grounders for the last few months of last season, but he's just not driving the ball with authority.
It's actually even more embarrassing and worse than that: the Red Sox have a 13 man pitching staff.
I don't know about it being an embarrassment for baseball, but it is bad managing. To be fair, there were some extenuating circumstances here: the teams played a 13 inning game 2 days ago and the Sox starter only lasted 3 innings yesterday, and both starters were knocked out early today, and neither team has an off day for a long time. The two bullpens pitched a combined 50 innings in this series.
However, I still think the right move is to plug in tomorrow's starter or a starting pitcher on his throw day and then worry about tomorrow tomorrow. It's not that challenging to shuffle the roster around and get fresh arms from AAA.
Buck got lucky and looks like a genius, and as for Bobby V, it's just not his year so far.
It didn't help that neither starter managed to go 5 innings.
Cost the team Michael Bowden.
According to this, it was Merkin Valdez last year. And before him, Babe Ruth.
I think all of those stats were referring to AL only.
This ties in exactly with my post in the other thread. Basiclly:
"7-20...blowing a 9-1 lead....today. I'm glad my team can provide such joy and entertainment for the heads at MLB Network and the Baseball Nation at large"
If this was the Sox 2004-2009...then yes, the game would have been very very funny. Today, it is not fun. At all.
Normally i would assume that Beckett just couldn't go, and that any other starter they could even think of using was either unavailable or already threw a side session. Even if that isn't the case, you know they would trudge out the "It's May, you can't play like it's September in May"
The problem in my opinion is such a rigid use of modern relievers that managers don't think they can adapt to the slightest unusual situation. Specifically, why aren't they regularly throwing two or three innings, instead of never being used more than an inning at a time, so that they're capable of it when you need them to? I recognize the benefit of LOOGYs and mixing and matching in close games, but you should have somebody who can throw four innings in a pinch.
Of course, it's not like JJ Hardy was showing off his arm all weekend so I'm sure it stunned Royster that Hardy can throw.
A. Sending Byrd in the 16th and having him thrown out by at least 15 feet.
B. Sending McDonald out to pitch the 17th after you've already got the opposing team using a position player and basically conceding you the game.
Sox should have gone to Doubront (tomorrow's starter if he was in the building) or Bard (Tuesday) and worried about tomorrow tomorrow. Get those guys in there then either use Beckett if he's available or call up Ohlendorf for a day. This was a winnable game given away by Bobby Valentine. Of course he also left a pitcher in the game who needed 11 stitches while his leg went numb on Saturday. My sympathy for Bobby V. is pretty well gone after this shitshow of the weekend. He is not the primary problem (the pitching is a travesty) but he ain't part of the solution.
Five of the relievers the Red Sox used are people who were starters very recently (Andrew Miller, Vicente Padilla, Aceves, Morales, and Hill). I blame Valentine for not using one of them as a long man today, not whoever assembled the bullpen.
Actually to Valentine's credit, he's been using relievers a lot longer than what I think of as 'normal'. I thought for sure Miller should have gone longer, but I see he hasn't been hardly used more than 1 inning per game in AAA
Which is why I don't understand why Valentine 'sounds destroyed'. He went beyond what I think is safe with a few of his relievers.
Preaching to the choir here.
He's better than pretty good (.969 OPS) and he can play center field. Plus, he has the added benefit of being better regarded than Nava. That's a little thing but I think there is a belief that Linares (who they spent some money on) is a better player than Nava. A 91 OPS+ with no speed or defense doesn't exactly make me feel like he's someone we need around.
I think that's my comment from the game thread, it was just a note on his press conference. He sounded about as bad as Francona in September, just a beaten man.
Bowden (seems like a perfectly useful arm ) for an utterly replaceable 34 year old CFer.
Lowrie (yes yes, I know he'll get hurt any day now) and the already hurt Weiland for Melancon
....thank God we got Sweeney so I don't have to say anything about Reddick.
Buck said after the game that he was deciding between Markakis and Davis. Buck didn't come out and say it, but I think he went with Davis because he's more willing to expose Davis to potential injury (to arm or by line drive).
The best pitcher is probably Matt Weiters, who was actually Georgia Tech's closer, where he'd catch 8 innings and then
head out to the mound. It's a little different after 15 innings behind the plate and a several year layoff from pitching.
Not Wieters? Wasn't Wieters the closer on his college team?
Basically I did not say Wieters because of what DKDC mentioned about 15 innings behind the plate. Plus the Markakis draft year was one of the first years I actually followed the draft closely, so I still remember him as the guy most teams preferred as a pitcher. But are there any teams that can compare to the Orioles who apparently in Davis, Wieters, and Markakis have at least three possibly decent pitchers as position players?
Of course, he only had to throw one pitch per inning.
In fact, if I had somebody like that who was probably going to make the roster, I'd have him pitch an inning or two in spring training to simulate such a situation.
This happens in football - for example, the Patriots have three QBs on the roster (Brady, Hoyer, and Mallett), but they also have a utility guy, Julius Edelman, who is a pretty good kick returner, a poor man's Wes Welker in the slot, started playing some defensive back in dime defenses, and was a starting QB at Kent State. Is he awesome at any of these roles? No. Does he cover you if you're screwed once a year? Yes - in fact, he played a lot of defense late in the season. So did Troy Brown, back in the day.
It's a smart move, it is totally doable, and if the Sox had a plan, they would've been more prepared to deal with it today.
WHY IS VICENTE PADILLA THERE IF NOT TO EAT INNINGS? HE BLOWS oh what does it matter.
crazyzany twists and turns, culminating with two position players pitching against each other--designated hitters, no less, so both teams were forced to send them up to bat. How often do you see that?I saw that game (on TV). IIRC, the Yankees quickly fell behind by a significant margin in the 1st game of a doubleheader, and brought in Colavito early to save the bullpen, but then rallied for 5 runs or so to put Rocky in position for the win. Colavito was at the end of his career as a hitter but the Yanks supposedly tried to interest him in coming back next season as a pitcher. He declined, but he had a helluva an arm.
He couldn't even do it in the All Star Game a few years back.
Clearly, he is eating SOMETHING.
Unless it's used as a tiebreaker, I can't see how you can justify determining a roster spot based off something so rare as position player pitching ability. That scenario is likely to come up 2-3 times a year, and most of those are because of blowouts.
EDIT: Needing an NL pitcher to PH/PR is a much more common occurrence, so I can see wanting to keep a Micah Owings around just in case.
Over the past 2-3 weeks, Medlen has picked up a 3 inning save, Martinez a 2.2 today and Livan a 1.2 inning save yesterday. And generally be less rigid with the 7-8-9 inning role.
He has also shown willingness to let a reliever who has good stuff on the day to pitch multiple innings. Still does some hair wrenching stuff with "trying to make stuff happen" on the basepaths ( with a league leading offence, no less ), but still, it has been good to watch.
And yea, the Braves' starters have absolutely sucked this season so far.
In 1960 I was at a Tigers game in Yankee Stadium when Colavito threw a perfect strike on the fly to home plate from right field, with his back pinned to the low wall and unable to get any running momentum. Colavito had an arm that was every bit the equal of those of Mays and Clemente, at least in terms of strength.
Plus, Markakis almost started the year on the DL with the off-season surgery.
Well, if there's a position where a throwing arm is the least important, it's 1B or DH. Kind of a shame Davis' arm is wasted there, actually.
Man, that's exactly why we need the DH. Pitchers just can't hit.
It would've been even shorter, but FOX kept cutting to shots of Mary Pickford in the stands and running endless ads for Al Jolson's new TV show.
didn't realize chris davis even got traded, but now he's got a GOOD chance to get in the rotation!!! good for him!!!!
Right after the final out of the World Series, they should call up a half dozen fungible lifetime AAA offensive players, and say "Whichever one of you is our best pitcher during spring training will make it to the Major Leagues. So, spend all winter practicing."
Come Opening Day, that player--let's call him Daniel Nava--will be an outfielder/pinch-runner/mop-up pitcher. And by mop-up pitcher, I mean any time the Red Sox are behind by 6 runs or more, Daniel Nava will pitch. For the rest of the game. No matter how awful he is, or how tired he gets. He will be used solely in "Save the Bullpen" outings. (And in the 17th innings of days like yesterday, of course.)
This makes 10,000 times more sense than using your 25th spot on a 13th relief pitcher who can only give you 1 inning at a time. Really, by taking the role of the 13th pitcher, he would allow the Red Sox further flexibility in using other spots on the 25 man roster: Add an extra defensive specialist, or a pinch-runner type, or something else--someone who can actually contribute, and give them some ability to better maneuver their lineup late in games.
With 12 RPs, this should basically never be necessary.
The issue is that teams carry 7 0ne-inning specialists, instead of 4 short-guys and 3 long-guys. There are ample fringe SPs in every organization that could give you 2-4 IP regularly out of the pen. Hell, lots of these guys get converted in one-inning RPs.
This would solve a bunch of problems:
1) No need to force a struggling SP through 5 IP. This has the dual effect of keeping you in the game, and I believe a quicker hook would be good for SP health.
2) You can go extra innings w/o using 6-7 RPs.
3) You can break young starters in in the pen w/o having to worry about the Joba/Feliz/Bard/Hughes conversion issues if you need them to start.
4) You can rotate 4th and 5th SPs based on matchups and "hot-hands".
Edit: As to yesterday's game, I don't understand how once they got to Hill, they aren't leaving him in for 5-6 innings. He was a SP in the minors this year. Surely he can give you more than 33 pitches.
It could be argued that the Sox do have somebody like that, but it didn't work out so hot for them yesterday. When the Orioles drafted Darnell McDonald, there was at least a little bit of a question as to whether he was a better prospect as a pitcher or an outfielder. IIRC, he won BA's high school player of the year award in large part because of his performance on the mound.
That's not saying much. Orioles really don't have a third baseman. Just a collection of 1B/DH who can stand in the spot.
Jim Johnson was the last real Oriole pitcher so I was wondering who they'd go to next. I think if the Orioles had taken a lead after Johnson's 2nd inning he'd go back for a third. But with the game still tied and being on the road, he would have had to pitch at least 2 more innings to potentially get a win. So at that point saving your pitchers and rolling the dice on a hitter makes sense.
I never would have guessed McDonald once had potential as a pitcher. He had poor control, low 80's velocity, and no offspeed pitches. It's been a long time and his arm must not be what it once was.
I was hoping for Matt Wieters. It would have been really cool to see Davis with a win and Wieters with a save. In addition to Markakis, Adam Jones probably has the best throwing arm of any current CF and was reported to throw 96 when he was drafted out of high school.
Interesting. If a pitcher is always batted for in the AL with the DH, I wonder if there's some hyper-technical sense in which the above statement is true 99% of the time.
It had McDonald throwing basically all change-ups at 83, with a couple 88 fastballs, so it has no idea on him.
There is this quote (a promise) from Adrian Gonzalez on Wednesday, May 2nd.
I'm sure Adrian Gonzalez never expected to whiff facing a Quad-A first baseman just a few days later.
Indeed. The O's were firm in their decision* to have him focus on being an outfielder. I don't think he's pitched competitively, not even in the minors, in about fifteen years. So unless he'd been noodling around with his vestigial pitching skills on the side, it's understandable that he looked a little rusty (to say the least).
* Given the career Darnell has had, maybe he should have gone the pitching route. That's worked out okay for his cousin so far.
You know, everyone ####### that we don't treat DHes as "real baseball players". Then a manager actually does this and its called an "embarrassment".
You might as well say McDonald would have gotten a swinging strike on Jones is he had thrown the pitch low, given that Jones' swing was up around his letters.
What bothers me about that play is sending him at all. He was out by about 20 feet. The Orioles had a 1st baseman pitching and the Sox had a more than competent bat (Ryan Sweeney) due up. Watching the play unfold Royster has to be conservative and force Davis to successfully get Sweeney out.
If he couldn't go on Saturday I suspect he couldn't have gone on Sunday. But Daniel Bard? Felix Doubront? Jon Lester? Hell, Scott Atchison for another inning? With the Orioles willingly punting the Sox HAD to keep rolling out real pitchers, this was a gimme.
I thought they bumped him mostly because they had to activate, and wanted to get a look, at Cook. But if he can't pitch in a 17 inning game, put his whiny ass on the DL.
I thought they bumped him mostly because they had to activate, and wanted to get a look, at Cook. But if he can't pitch in a 17 inning game, put his whiny ass on the DL.
I don't think they can risk Beckett's health at this point. If he goes down long-term, the season's starting to look very toasty.
I'll ask again, why wasn't Hill left in much longer? The guy's an SP, and started this year in the minors.
Surely, he could have given them 100 pitches; but he was yanked at 33.
I was curious -- since 1918, there are 12 games in which a pitcher has struck out 5 times, and they are 8-3 (with a reliever losing the other one) in those games.
The first game on the list is a fun one -- 1918-05-15, Lefty Williams loses to Walter Johnson 1-0 when he gives up a run (on a wild pitch?) in the 18th. Williams' game score was 109, the second-highest that we know of for a losing pitcher. A couple of months later Art Nehf put up a game score of 118 while losing 2-0 in 21 innings. Third-highest is Harvey Haddix.
Hill had Tommy John surgery last June. He's back pitching ahead of schedule and is nowhere near ready to be stretched out.
I don't remember that at all, but rather the question of whether he was a better prospect as an outfielder or a tailback. Gillick gave him a large bonus to keep him from wearing burnt orange on Saturdays.
My retinas wish someone would do the same for Rickie Fowler on Sundays.
Hill had Tommy John surgery last June. He's back pitching ahead of schedule and is nowhere near ready to be stretched out.
But, if injury is the concern, isn't McDonald more likely to hurt himself than Hill? They seem equally expendable.
If a pitcher even gets 5 at bats in a game, it means that he is pitching well enough to stay in the game for a while, and that his team has sent at least 45 men to the plate, at least 18 baserunners. That's a good recipe for a winning game. No surprise that pitchers are 8-3 in such games.
If he's so hurt that he can't pitch an inning on 5-days rest, he should be on the DL.
Not necessarily. These two starters combined for 12 plate appearances and fewer strikeouts than Chris Davis yesterday - and they were both batting against HoF pitchers.
Tough call - probably worthy of extended debate.
Not hitting.
Incidentally, there was a minor league game that went 18 yesterday (Bradenton over Tampa), losing pitcher (Rabago) began the game at third.
Um... 5.5?
Mauve.
Yes?
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