There is a wide gulf between "hiney bird" and "much worse".

"I'm a big boy and I can handle this," he said. "The people I feel sorry for are the hard-working, talented journalists at the Sun-Times like Chris De Luca, Joe Cowley, Toni Ginnetti, Gordon Wittenmyer, Carol Slezak and Greg Couch."

Really, every one of these folks is all reet. Someone in charge must think Mariotti is selling papers, though. Or generating hits (I'm looking at you, BTF).

Let me know when they go after him with tar and feathers.

Really, every one of these folks is all reet. Someone in charge must think Mariotti is selling papers, though. Or generating hits (I'm looking at you, BTF).

Not this article. This article goes to the Trib.

Seriously, does anybody in Chicago that’s a fan of a Chicago team (any of them) still read this guy?

Humor value. Same as you.

Well, Tim Marchman seems to admire Marioti, though in the way some people admire Bill O'Reilly....

Humor value. Same as you.

Nope. Mariotti's on my don't read list along with Plaschke, Phil Rodgers, Simers, and just about every NY columnist or columnist that appears on Around the Horn.

i can't wait till this generation of surly, mean, nasty sportswriters dies off. richard griffin, CHB, mariotti, etc. something happened in the 80s when it became cool for a reporter to be an ####### about sports. i blame espn which started trying to appeal to a hip, younger crowd (in the 80s and 90s) for whom irony was the idiom. when moron sportswriters got "ironic," it turned quickly into sarcasm, which then has predictably morphed into vitriol. i really want to be entertained by sports. these guys make it damn near impossible.

[edit]ah yes jimmy p, you reminded me (thanks a lot!) about plaschke, simers, and rodgers.

Not this article. This article goes to the Trib.

Dude, we link to Mariotti <u>all</u> <u>the</u> <u>time</u>. Mostly to mock. But still, we link to him, we generate hits.

In a perfect world, Mariotti, Guillen, and Harrelson would all be in occupations where they would remain forever unnoticed and their disappearance from the public eye would be entirely unlamented.

In a perfect world, Mariotti, Guillen, and Harrelson would all be in occupations where they would remain forever unnoticed and their disappearance from the public eye would be entirely unlamented.

Guillen doesn't belong in that group. He's good at his job.

can't wait till this generation of surly, mean, nasty sportswriters dies off.

To be replaced by another generation of surly, mean, nasty sportswriters? This sort of crap is nothing new, of course. I remember reading Dick Young in, I think, The Sporting News when I was a kid. And while he was way before my time, I assume that the likes of Boston's Dave Egan were cut from very similar cloth.

Difference is, I guess, we're much more likely these days to see these ambulatory tumors on cable, hear them on sports talk stations or read their crap excerpted on websites.

Guillen doesn't belong in that group. He's good at his job.

and he's entertaining too.

What's enteraining about Mariotti is how he seemingly gets bashed by everyone who reads him, and by colleagues too...

Not for nothing, but I think "hiney bird" is RDF.

I remember reading Dick Young in, I think, The Sporting News when I was a kid.

Dick Young had a lot of respect in the community, though. He was tough, true, but he could also write well.

I do agree that sh*t-stirring is with us to stay, for well or ill.

"enjoy how he rips me"

See? Mob justice works!

Is there anyone, anywhere who actually likes Mariotti? I've been reading BTF for awhile, and I think you'd have a hard time getting 100 percent of the membership here to agree that Hitler was a bad dude. A sportswriter, no matter how widely loathed, will still have people defending him on this site. TJ Simers has a fanbase, for God's sake, and I find him to be easily crueler and more vituperative than Mariotti.

But I have yet to read anyone in any context defend Mariotti, with the possible exception of his feud with Hawk Harrelson, and then the "defense" was couched in "I really wish a meteor would crush both of them" terms. Not here, not elsewhere on the internet, not in respectable publications. Nada. No one is willing to stand up in defense of Jay Mariotti. That kind of unanimity is stunning.

Dick Young had a lot of respect in the community, though. He was tough, true, but he could also write well.

As a Met fan who came of age in the 70s I have to say BS, Dick Young was a loathsome piece of crap, true he could write better than the likes of a Mariotti, but who cares.

But I have yet to read anyone in any context defend Mariotti, with the possible exception of his feud with Hawk Harrelson, and then the "defense" was couched in "I really wish a meteor would crush both of them" terms. Not here, not elsewhere on the internet, not in respectable publications. Nada. No one is willing to stand up in defense of Jay Mariotti. That kind of unanimity is stunning.

Dan McNeil from Mac, Jurko and Harry thinks he's excellent. He's the only one I've ever heard compliment him regularly.

Dan McNeil from Mac, Jurko and Harry thinks he's excellent. He's the only one I've ever heard compliment him regularly.

Consider the source

"Is there anyone, anywhere who actually likes Mariotti?"

No. Not even his mother.

Really, every one of these folks is all reet.

I'm not a Cowley fan, but I've got no problem with the others.

The same people who like Mariotti are the same ogres who listen to these dime-a-dozen sports talk radio dunces, and breathlessly call in "Hey, first time, caller, love the show!"

Guillen doesn't belong in that group. He's good at his job.



and he's entertaining too.

i just want to say that i have huge man love for ozzie guillen. what he's done with gavin floyd is a pure joy to watch.

what he's done with gavin floyd is a pure joy to watch.

I think that Don Cooper might get more credit than Guillen for Floyd, but I do agree that Guillen is a very good manager. He's basically Billy Martin without the tendency to shred young arms.

Dick Young had a lot of respect in the community, though. He was tough, true, but he could also write well.

He also injected his right wing opinions in his baseball columns. I subscribed to Sporting News despite him.

But I have yet to read anyone in any context defend Mariotti.

I don't think that I've ever posted in his defense and I have a contrarian streak. But I think one of my friends likes him for some reason. So Jay does have one fan.

Dan McNeil is the only media figure I've ever heard defend him. And there have been numerous ones assailing him. "Sportswriters on TV" never had him on - they had everyone else on, but not him. That was an especially apparent fact given that fellow Sun TImes columnists Rick Telander was one of the panelists.

This is hardly the first time a paper has taken a swipe at Mariotti over the years. I think Barry Rozner did once or twice. Most memorably, after the '05 Series, Eric Zorn on his blog posted a collection of things Mariotti said over the years.

He also injected his right wing opinions in his baseball columns. I subscribed to Sporting News despite him.

The points to a fundamental difference in the two. Love or hate Dick Young, he wrote what he did because he believed it. He famously was the most anti-Marvin Miller sportswriter in the world, but his feud was born of sincere conviction. I have no interest in debating the merits of that opinion, but he meant what he said.

I don't believe for a minute Mariotti really cares about anything Guillen has ever said or done. He's just an obnoxious 12-year-old throwing rocks at beehives, seeing what creates the most buzz. Hawk dances his tune without even noticing it, so he goes after Harrelson. Guillen makes an easy target so he goes after Guillen. It's all about finishing next week's column.

ANother difference - Dick Young was known as a tough SOB who would go to the clubhouse and talk to the people right after shredding them. Mariotti enters clubhouses as often as most primates.

"Is there anyone, anywhere who actually likes Mariotti?"

No. Not even his mother.

You mean Rosemary?

He's basically Billy Martin without the tendency to shred young arms.

And without the drunken brawling. I doubt Guillen would get into more than a shouting match with a marshmallow salesman, and even then he'd be laughing his mariotti off.

As a Met fan who came of age in the 70s I have to say BS, Dick Young was a loathsome piece of crap, true he could write better than the likes of a Mariotti, but who cares.

AMEN! And I think it's a safe bet that Tom & Nancy Seaver would be on board as well...

Eric Zorn on his blog posted a collection of things Mariotti said over the years.

A classic.

Well, Tim Marchman seems to admire Marioti, though in the way some people admire Bill O'Reilly....


He also injected his right wing opinions in his baseball columns.


Well, golly. Two completely unsolicited, unrelated liberal broadsides in one 31-post thread. Nice work, men.

I think you'd have a hard time getting 100 percent of the membership here to agree that Hitler was a bad dude.

Depends on whether the standard for comparison is or isn't Steve Garvey.

As a Met fan who came of age in the 70s I have to say BS, Dick Young was a loathsome piece of crap, true he could write better than the likes of a Mariotti, but who cares.

Good writing with a distinctive style counts for a lot. And as someone else said, if you stand behind what you write, you're at least a man. That folks disagree with what you write isn't so much the point. Mariotti's problems are twofold: he isn't man enough to face his targets, and he has no discernable style or wit, just the dogged willingness to find targets to throw darts at.

If Young was past his prime by the 70s, that's unfortunate, but at least he had a prime.

"So Jay does have one fan."

Lies, lies, and more lies!

"Two completely unsolicited, unrelated liberal broadsides in one 31-post thread. Nice work, men."

Hey, given recent history, can we help it when "Republican" is the first thing that comes to mind when we're confronted with EPIC FAIL?

calling someone's opinions "right wing" is a broadside?

Jay sez:

Will (Ken) Williams recognize his Joe Crede problem and pursue Shea Hillenbrand?

That might be the single worst sentence ever published.

My two favorite quotes from the Zorn blog:

Zorn: "Will (Ken) Williams recognize his Joe Crede problem and pursue Shea Hillenbrand?"

commenter Nicole: "Jay Mariotti looks like Eddie Munster"

Edit: Curse you, DeiviCruz, you beat me to it. 8-)

i can't wait till this generation of surly, mean, nasty sportswriters dies off. richard griffin, CHB, mariotti, etc. something happened in the 80s when it became cool for a reporter to be an ####### about sports. i blame espn which started trying to appeal to a hip, younger crowd (in the 80s and 90s) for whom irony was the idiom. when moron sportswriters got "ironic," it turned quickly into sarcasm, which then has predictably morphed into vitriol. i really want to be entertained by sports. these guys make it damn near impossible.

To be replaced by another generation of surly, mean, nasty sportswriters? This sort of crap is nothing new, of course. I remember reading Dick Young in, I think, The Sporting News when I was a kid. And while he was way before my time, I assume that the likes of Boston's Dave Egan were cut from very similar cloth.

Dick Young had a lot of respect in the community, though. He was tough, true, but he could also write well.

As a Met fan who came of age in the 70s I have to say BS, Dick Young was a loathsome piece of crap, true he could write better than the likes of a Mariotti, but who cares.

I remember Young when Young was young, and even when Young was young he wrote like a nasty old man. Forever trying to play the "hotheaded" Jackie Robinson off of the "jovial" Roy Campanella, to Robinson's discredit. Railing against the younger sportswriters, using Jimmy Cannon's term "chipmunks" to refer to them. Taking management's side against the union, and against Tom Seaver. Every bit as arrogant and pigheaded as Mariotti, and with the same air of phony populism about him. He was the Bob Grant of sportswriting, always with a rivet up his butt and ready to pick a fight with anyone who was the slightest bit different than he was. He did know a lot more about baseball than Mariotti, and yes, he was a more polished writer (which isn't saying much), but underneath it all they were two peas in a pod. "Loathsome piece of crap" gets it just about right.

Good writing with a distinctive style counts for a lot. And as someone else said, if you stand behind what you write, you're at least a man. That folks disagree with what you write isn't so much the point.

IMHO what Dick Young wrote was so far off the curve of fairness and decency the fact that he may have honestly believed in what he wrote makes him even a bigger scumbag imho.

ANother difference - Dick Young was known as a tough SOB who would go to the clubhouse and talk to the people right after shredding them. Mariotti enters clubhouses as often as most primates.

This is true, but that was a given back then. Beat writers like Young traveled with the teams and had absolutely no way of avoiding the players even if they'd wanted to. I guess you might say he was "sincere" in his beliefs, but those beliefs were so completely straight out the Get Off My Grass textbook that you could predict nearly every word before he wrote it. Young was to a real writer like his contemporary Leonard Koppett what the center for the Washington Generals was to Bill Russell, or what Nuke LaLoosh was to Tom Seaver.

I don't disagree with any negatives you have of Young, but with Mariotti you can't even make a pretense of defendin ghim.

but with Mariotti you can't even make a pretense of defendin ghim.

I'm not defending Mariotti, can't see why anyone would. I'll defend Jesus Melendez long before I defend Mariotti.

I'll defend Jesus Melendez long before I defend Mariotti.
I, for one, chuckled.

So Young is respectable because he believes his cause? Then I guess we should support Hitler, he was a true believer.

So Young is respectable because he believes his cause? Then I guess we should support Hitler, he was a true believer.

Well, compared to contrived posturing from Mariotti, sure. Sort of like Stalin was better than Hitler since he had a better moustache.

32. Up2Drew Posted: June 10, 2008 at 03:35 PM (#2814021)
Well, Tim Marchman seems to admire Marioti, though in the way some people admire Bill O'Reilly....


He also injected his right wing opinions in his baseball columns.


Well, golly. Two completely unsolicited, unrelated liberal broadsides in one 31-post thread. Nice work, men.

From the recent Maury Brown interview with Marchman posted here:

"and I admire Jay Mariotti the way some people admire Bill O’Reilly."