“To add another 40,000 people to that just doesn’t make sense. The neighborhood just can’t handle that influx of people. There’s not enough room. Each bar will end up being over-capacity.Traffic will get out of hand. I don’t know if the transportation system can handle it,” Winner said.

Wrong.

First of all, virtually the entire crowd on a Friday/Saturday afternoon game sticks around into the evening anyway... so the afternoon starts are fairly irrelevant.

Second - allow night games, don't allow night games -- but how about getting rid of this stupid early Friday start? It makes absolutely no sense... all it does is ensure that the Cubs game will let out at precisely the same time us commuters to the burbs are getting back into the neighborhood, completely hosing traffic. Let 'em start at 3:05 or whatever... Inbound traffic for the game would be done by the time rush hour begins and we could all be home by the time the game ends.

...and when you get down to it, it's all about traffic, so far as I'm concerned.

I CHOSE to live in this neighborhood well aware of the "downside". I don't mind the crowds - I think it's reasonable to ask the crowds not to piss in your yard, but different game start times aren't going to affect that.

It's really just the parking and traffic and drive me up a wall. The zoned parking in the neighborhood needs to be expanded -- at least 4-5 blocks further north and south, and maybe another 2-3 blocks west. Those of us just outside the Wrigley night zones get terminally screwed by suburban jagoffs. The zoning should also apply 24-7, instead of this silly night-game only crap.

Doesn't matter what time the game is -- the entire evening is going to be a mess traffic-wise...

The solution isn't game time-based -- it's a matter of making it less cost-effective and convenient for people to drive in from the suburbs. Start towing more cars and making it impossible for someone to drive directly into wrigleyville - and you'll no longer have nearly the traffic issues.

Why would they want to drive away fans?

Why would they want to drive away fans?

There are a billion ways to get to Wrigley Field that don't involve driving.

There are a billion ways to get to Wrigley Field that don't involve driving.

Exactly. I have zero sympathy for suburbanites -- who should know better -- that have all manner of public transportation options to get to the ballpark.

Even for out-of-staters - there is absolutely, positively ZERO reason to drive all the way into the neighborhood. There are plenty of remote parking options - $6 at Western/Addison with a FREE shuttle bus to/from... You can even park for FREE at locations further West, hop on an express bus for $1.75 a person, and rather than fight a mile of city traffic to get back on the expressway -- be right at it for the trip home.

Agreed, it's way too easy for people to drive to Wrigley and park for a game. I know people who live in the city who drive. In terms of their own convenience (i.e., coordinating with work, picking up kids, etc.), it makes sense for them, but they could easily get by using the el or bus.

But these people are very few, I think. Most people drive because they simply don't do public transportation.

all it does is ensure that the Cubs game will let out at precisely the same time us commuters to the burbs are getting back into the neighborhood, completely hosing traffic.

Ha! You say that is if anyone in charge of this town cares about traffic. There are so many things in Chicago that completely hose traffic that one more inconvenience is barely noticeable. This is the city where they decided to make an exit only lane on the left without replacing the lane on the other side. It's the city where they decided it would be a good idea to make three freeways all come together at one spot AND take a lane away at the same time. It's where they decided it would be a good idea to take a freeway that should really have four lanes in each direction and make it a two lane freeway for an entire summer. Traffic is not high priority.

First of all, virtually the entire crowd on a Friday/Saturday afternoon game sticks around into the evening anyway... so the afternoon starts are fairly irrelevant.

Right, but during day game when the game lets out, most of those places are fairly empty, and they fill up with people who just left the game. If you play night games there on Fridays and or Saturdays, they will be filled up with people out for a typical Friday or Saturday night before the game lets out. THEN they will be inundated with post-game patrons after they're already at or near capacity. So you'll have twice as many people down there as usual.

Public transportation can run into a lot of money for . . . I don't know . . . a family.

Most people drive because they simply don't do public transportation.

And I think I speak for both zonk and myself when I say, "Feck those people."

Granted, the CTA's weekend Brown line service pretty much blows during the current construction project...

Public transportation can run into a lot of money for . . . I don't know . . . a family.

Oh, please. Any of these suburban families with their SUVs and huge houses in Barrington (and who probably paid premium for their Cubs tickets in the first place) can afford Metra service for their family of 4.5.

It's where they decided it would be a good idea to take a freeway that should really have four lanes in each direction and make it a two lane freeway for an entire summer.

Ah, the brilliance that is the Edens '08 project. Ridiculous.

Why would they want to drive away fans?

And as I should've mentioned before, there's not exactly a dearth of demand for Cubs tickets. Even if these folks are "driven away" (dubious), others will take their place. The waitlist for Cubs season tickets is roughly twice the stadium's capacity.

Oh, please. Any of these suburban families with their SUVs and huge houses in Barrington (and who probably paid premium for their Cubs tickets in the first place) can afford Metra service for their family of 4.5.

Exactly...

A family of 4 is paying less than they did for a single ticket for public transportation - and like I said above, the DeVry (Western/Addison) lot shuttle bus is FREE. What's more - if said family of 4 doesn't get a 'free' spot, I guarantee you they're paying 3 times as much as the to/from bus ride would have cost the family from the more western options.

What's more - if said family of 4 doesn't get a 'free' spot, I guarantee you they're paying 3 times as much as the to/from bus ride would have cost the family from the more western options.

E-Z OUT--ONLY $45!!!!!

Public transportation can run into a lot of money for . . . I don't know . . . a family.

It would be, what, $16 ($14 with a Chicago Card) round-trip for a family of four to take the el.

Driving from, say, Evanston (one of the closer suburbs), it's going to cost you about four bucks in gas (~20 miles round trip). Parking in a lot is going to cost you several dollars. Not much of an advantage, and it's a big traffic inconvenience.

You can find street parking not too far from Wrigley, but that means walking with the kids for several blocks, to save a maximum of $10-12 on an outing that is going to cost several times that for everything else.

For the vast majority of families going to Cubs games, some use of mass transit (even if it's just parking at one of the remote lots and taking the shuttle) is the most economical and convenient option.

To add another 40,000 people to that just doesn’t make sense. The neighborhood just can’t handle that influx of people. There’s not enough room.

A misdirected argument. Plain economics states that if there is demand then eventually (sooner rather then later)someone is going to supply that demand. If the influx of people is truly as great as they expect then people will open more places to service those people. Now perhaps his argument is that the inlfux will displace residents of the neighborhood but hey anybody that accepts the selling price I have no sympathy for. Reminds of the Warren Beatty movie.

"He got my team. That sonofabitch got my team"
"What kind of pressure did he use, Milt?"
"All I asked for was 67 million , and he said, 'okay'."
"Ruthless bastard."

For the vast majority of families going to Cubs games, some use of mass transit (even if it's just parking at one of the remote lots and taking the shuttle) is the most economical and convenient option.

It absolutely is...

Hell, I've got lots of family in NW Indiana, and I probably get about half a dozen trips into town for Cubs games from various factions... I've turned ALL of them on to remote parking - the ones I haven't convinced to just take the South Shore into the city, then El it to the park - and without exception, get raves about it being both cheaper AND easier.

I think there is plenty wrong with Chicago's public transportation system generally -- lots that needs to be improved -- but the options to/from Cubs games aren't at all part of the problem... The CTA runs plenty of express buses at logical game times, from virtually every direction -- there's a red line el stop right at the ballpark, a brown line stop about 8 blocks away.

The options are there - they're just under-utilized.

I agree, it is too easy for people in cars to get to Wrigley. I usually drive down twice a year from Milwaukee and every year I consider one of the public transit options, and everytime I remember how it really isn't a big hassle and park at or near the BK on Irving Park just west of Wunders Cemetery. It isn't cost prohibitive quite yet, it is close to the ballpark, and it isn't that bad getting out of town, all at my own convenience. It really shouldn't be as easy as it is.

I support the neighborhood on this one, the permit parking for night games only should probably be expanded both in terms of blocks and probably day games too.

I can recall that after night baseball came to the North Side, the original prohibition was games on Friday and Sunday nights -- in the late '90s, I remember the Phillies played a Saturday night game at Wrigley. Was the regulation changed to Friday and Saturday nights in order to placate ESPN?

E-Z OUT--ONLY $45!!!!!

The highly impatient (my father) can usually find someone with an open driveway spot within 5 blocks of the stadium for under $20.

Those are the cheapest because they avoid the city taxes.

The zoned parking in the neighborhood needs to be expanded -- at least 4-5 blocks further north and south, and maybe another 2-3 blocks west. Those of us just outside the Wrigley night zones get terminally screwed by suburban jagoffs.

Change the zone and you're just screwing someone else. As you said, you live in a certain area, you live with the screwing.

Oh, please. Any of these suburban families with their SUVs and huge houses in Barrington (and who probably paid premium for their Cubs tickets in the first place) can afford Metra service for their family of 4.5.

Metra is $10 on the weekends for a family of four.

O' course, then you got to get from Jefferson Park or the Loop to Wiggly, but that family can afford a taxi, or the bus, or the el.

I will say that for the infrequent user, it can be difficult to work those blasted CTA machines.

Change the zone and you're just screwing someone else. As you said, you live in a certain area, you live with the screwing.

Not true ---

Many streets within 3-4 blocks of the park are not zoned for day games/afternoon games at all, and they should be. The night game neighborhood parking provisions are laughably too small. 8-10 blocks N or S of the park, you're out of the night-game resident-only sticker zones.

You can absolutely and completely reduce the traffic and parking issues with proper zoning -- you simply squeeze non-residents to the point where one can no longer reasonably park "just beyond the zoned area" and still walk to the park... Once folks have to look for parking around Foster or Fullerton in order to get beyond the Wrigley zoning, I guarantee you that the appetite to drive all the way east towards the lake to attend a game will be completely greatly reduced.

Drive into the city if you want -- just don't drive all the way east to the ballpark. Like I said several times -- there are plenty of lots INTENDED for those that need to drive, for whatever reason -- that are both cost-effective and convenient. There is no excuse for not using them... and FWIW - having also lived west of Western Ave, if the suburbanites stick with the proper lots, they need never get off Addison or Irving Park... residents know to avoid the main arteries anyway during games/game traffic -- it's the fact that these folks muck up the side streets that is a problem.

Public transportation can run into a lot of money for . . . I don't know . . . a family.

Either my sarcasm detector is broken, or all of yours are. This was a joke.

I don't have any experience with the remote lots being discussed, but in general my experience with public transportation to sporting events is that it's not the getting there, it's the return trip. When you park in a remote lot before the game, there's a bus waiting to take you to the game. It's very convenient because arrival times are staggered. When the game's over, you have 2,000 people trying to catch the bus back to the lot at the same time. You wait forever to get on a bus. Then when you get back to the lot, there's a good chance that your car's blocked in. And this is the time when you're most likely to be aggravated since you're tired and you just want to get home.

I've only taken the el once to a Wrigley game and it takes a while to get on the return train there. Plus you're packed in like sardines, which can be trouble with young kids. I've had similar experiences at other parks and events (World Cup, Olympics, Yankee Stadium).

I will say that for the infrequent user, it can be difficult to work those blasted CTA machines.

To me, impossible. So I drive to the "L" in Wilmette-I have finally figured those machines out.

I took Metra downtown Sunday and noticed a huge number of Cub fans leaving Union Station to go to the Red Line.

I've only been to about a dozen games in Wrigley, but for day games I'd always park about 15 or 20 blocks away, on one of the East/West streets off Clark, and just walk to the park. That's always been one of the great walking neighborhoods of any U.S. city, at least west of New York.

Of course the last game I went to there was in 1987. Can you still park that close without getting towed?

I live in Wisconsin. I've seen somewhere around 800 games at Wrigley. I've never driven to within walking distance of the ballpark. Hell back when I had a car the closest the car got to Wrigley Field was Harvard Illinois. If I can figure it out from Wisconsin idiots from Evanston surely must be able to.

If I can figure it out from Wisconsin idiots from Evanston surely must be able to.

Living in Austin for a little over 10 years, I have figured out that intelligent people are going to figure out things in a new city or environment, and stupid and/or clueless people aren't going to figure things out on the block they've lived on for 30 years. The stupid tourists on the streets here will blithely walk on a red light with cars barreling at them just like the stupid locals. The reasonably intelligent people from here can go to NYC and be just fine, while the dumb people here are the ones who go to NYC and end up murdered in a back alley of Harlem after following a guy in there to see "genuine Rolexes for 20 bucks."

I CHOSE to live in this neighborhood well aware of the "downside".

Seems that you weren't really aware.

Its easy for everyone in the world to ##### for everyone ELSE to change their behavior so YOUR life is easier.

Of course the last game I went to there was in 1987. Can you still park that close without getting towed?

That far away, generally yes, although you will find the competition far stiffer than it was 20 years ago.

I don't have any experience with the remote lots being discussed, but in general my experience with public transportation to sporting events is that it's not the getting there, it's the return trip

To avoid this, I would either hang around until the peak crowd subsided, or walk 10 min south to Belmont to catch a northbound train. That way you're in the train ahead of the crowd.

Seems that you weren't really aware.

Its easy for everyone in the world to ##### for everyone ELSE to change their behavior so YOUR life is easier.

Completely untrue -- as I've said now... 3 times? 4 times? -- I have no problem whatsoever with the crowds. I'm perfectly fine with evening games.

You're trying to make it an either/or proposition and it isn't -- 10 years ago, Friday games didn't always start at 1:20. The night game --- it was once 8, now it's 18 --- has also changed the equation.

It's not "####" everyone else -- it's recognizing that this is an urban area. It's a not a freckin' cookie cutter, strip mall infested suburb where you have to drive to get to the TGI Fridays of your choice. I don't think it's 'unreasonable' to respect the fact that urban areas are not suburbs -- and public transportation to get around is a more acceptable mode of travel than driving.

Good christ... It's not like I'm insisting visitors to the neighborhood force their daughters to supply neighboorhood residents with hand jobs or something -- I'm just asking you to park about 1/2 a mile west and avail yourself of the buses that run to and from the park....

I think everybody is missing the main point - if the team really wants to "minimize player fatigue during the dog days of summer" they need to get rid of the white players. I know it pains us to admit Dusty Baker's genius, but there it is.

I think everybody is missing the main point - if the team really wants to "minimize player fatigue during the dog days of summer" they need to get rid of the white players. I know it pains us to admit Dusty Baker's genius, but there it is.

Gambling Rent, is that you? ;-)

Where is Gambling Rent these days?

zonk, if you don't like the parking problem, get rid of your car.

They started games at 3 p.m. on Fridays for some time at Wrigley. Then someone began to complain about the shadows across home plate and those games disappeared.

zonk, if you don't like the parking problem, get rid of your car.

I wish it were an option - I would. But my office is not accessible via public transportation - it's 4 miles from the nearest Metra station and while there formerly was a shuttle bus service, it stopped operating several years ago (a cost-cutting move, I think, rather than usage -- as it always seemed pretty full when I'd be on it).

Bike? Walk? Move closer to work? Or force change on a population of 5 million so that you can find a parking spot easier?

Bike? Walk? Move closer to work? Or force change on a population of 5 million so that you can find a parking spot easier?

Huh? I haven't looked at the latest attendance figures - but I'm fairly sure asking the what.... couple thousand a game that drive in?... doesn't add up to "5 million".

I fail to see how wanting to change parking regulations to reserve spots for residents is 'forcing change on 5 million'. Lakeview is actually not a difficult neighborhood to find parking in -- relatively speaking -- except during Cubs night games, and it's gotten much worse over the years. Compared to comparable neighborhood -- Lincoln Park, et al -- it's a breeze... except during Cubs games.

I think if you were to take a poll of the neighborhood - you'd find that residents of the neighborhood agree with me to an overwhelming extent.

I'm really puzzled as to exactly why you feel the need to continually argue with me on how parking should be regulated in my home of 10 years.... perhaps you're bored and wishing for an online fight to liven up your afternoon?

Could I interest you in K-Rod's signability or a sundry choice of China-related topics?

They seem more fertile ground than the parking regulations in my neighborhood... just a thought.

Where is Gambling Rent these days?

You'd figure he'd at least show up to chide retro about their Cards-related bet.

They started games at 3 p.m. on Fridays for some time at Wrigley. Then someone began to complain about the shadows across home plate and those games disappeared.

I think it was actually a trade-off for allowing Sunday night games and increasing the night game schedule to 18...

I think if you were to take a poll of the neighborhood - you'd find that residents of the neighborhood agree with me to an overwhelming extent.

The residents of the neighborhood agree that the streets paid for by all the residents of Chicago (and visitors to Chicago who pay taxes, tolls, etc.) should be defended as your personal parking spots? Shocking.

I'm really puzzled as to exactly why you feel the need to continually argue with me on how parking should be regulated in my home of 10 years.... perhaps you're bored and wishing for an online fight to liven up your afternoon?

I find the belief of on-street parking "ownership" in Chicago laughable, that is why. You have ranted many times in this thread about your belief that you deserve a right to exclusive parking on your neighborhood streets since you live there. If you didn't want anyone to disagree, don't rant.

It seems that playing consecutive day games, as opposed to day after night, would be less fatiguing, or at least no more fatiguing. Of course, that's probably a bogus reason and what they really want is prime time TV.

10 years ago, Friday games didn't always start at 1:20.

Yes. What happened to the 2:20 and previously before that 3:05 Businessmen's Special start times?

But these people are very few, I think. Most people drive because they simply don't do public transportation.

The only time I've ever been to Wrigley, my father took my brothers and me using the El from the Loop. We watched as three guys robbed another right in front of us on the El.

The residents of the neighborhood agree that the streets paid for by all the residents of Chicago (and visitors to Chicago who pay taxes, tolls, etc.) should be defended as your personal parking spots? Shocking.

Huh?

You clearly don't know much about parking is zoned in the city... Head a dozen blocks north - you'll find virtually every side street to be zoned. I'm simply asking for the same to be applied to my neigborhood as exists in other neighborhoods.

I find the belief of on-street parking "ownership" in Chicago laughable, that is why. You have ranted many times in this thread about your belief that you deserve a right to exclusive parking on your neighborhood streets since you live there. If you didn't want anyone to disagree, don't rant.

Ahhh... so now we come to it - you've obviously gotten a bit of blow back for stealing a dug-out parking spot, a completely separate issue from baseball season parking and one that elicits even less sympathy from me.

As I said above - the type of parking regulations are no different than those that exist throughout the city... I'm saying the zoned area should be extended further north, south, and west -- and likewise be extended to be full-time restrictions, not just night game restrictions... or at least -- the standard 6 PM to 6 AM restrictions that you see in dozens of other neighborhoods.


Are you sure I can't interest you in another topic? There are two Joba threads... Do you like Joba?

Is a metra a female metro?

Interestingly enough, the '84 Cubs were thought to have a big advantage on Fridays due to the shadows but if you look through the game logs a distinct advantage does not jump out. They lost games on Fridays even when they were white hot in July and August.

Speaking of the Cubs and August I will always remember how Ron Cey would get his bat going in August. Back then I recognized but later on thought I might be blurring months. But then when the batting splits became available one of the FIRST things I checked was Cey in August with the Cubs. And darned if it wasn't so. Even in his dotage Cey would get it going in August.

I swear in '84 he must have won 5 or 6 games with big hits. I know the record says he drove in "only" 28 runs that month but it seemed like 50.

Of course the hottest month for a Brewer in that respect is Cecil back in July of 1983. 39 rbi. He was out of control that month. Just crazy.....

The only time I've ever been to Wrigley, my father took my brothers and me using the El from the Loop. We watched as three guys robbed another right in front of us on the El.

I estimate that I've ridden the L roughly 2,500 times since moving to chicago (seven years x 10 months* x 40 rides per month** - something knocked off to be conservative). I don't believe I've ever seen anyone robbed on the L. I've seen some weird things, but I've never seen anyone robbed.

*two months taken out for vacation, days where I drove to the office, and business travel.
**20 work days per month, two rides per workday.

Interestingly enough, the '84 Cubs were thought to have a big advantage on Fridays due to the shadows but if you look through the game logs a distinct advantage does not jump out. They lost games on Fridays even when they were white hot in July and August.

Before Lee Smith gets a HoF plaque -- they ought to give one to those shadows. Smith was a good, but completely overrated, reliever -- he threw hard, had a decent slider.... and got to pitch an awful lot of games in the sunshine while the better was in the shadows.

Zonk, I've lived in the city and in the suburbs. I could not disagree more with you. I think the idea of permit parking for residents is terrible. Just because it is common in Chicago does not make it right or fair. The roads are public property, not the private parking area of the neighbors. On weekends, I park at Damen and Addison and walk to the games. On weeknights, I park in Rogers Park and take the red line to the games. I don't think I'm taking the parking space of some resident any more than I'm taking their air when I breathe.

Charles in 52 sums up my thoughts.

Before Lee Smith gets a HoF plaque -- they ought to give one to those shadows. Smith was a good, but completely overrated, reliever -- he threw hard, had a decent slider.... and got to pitch an awful lot of games in the sunshine while the better was in the shadows.

That reminds me of the game in '84 where Smith takes the comebacker off his ass and it goes right to Owen at short, and Harry says, "Even the lord above wants the Cubs to win!"

Oh, and Harvey, I love Ron Cey!

I always thought that neighborhood parking permits were there for the benefit of paid parking operators.

And I think I speak for both zonk and myself when I say, "Feck those people."

Having spent a fair amount of time in the CTA's dispatch center on weekend nights as a contractor, it was pretty much constant mayhem -- knifings, assaults (often of the driver), etc. Now, I've since ridden CTA buses and they're not that bad, but it is certainly enough to make me think twice about personal safety on late-night runs.

I always thought that neighborhood parking permits were there for the benefit of paid parking operators.

And the Lincoln Park Pirates.

Zonk, I've lived in the city and in the suburbs. I could not disagree more with you. I think the idea of permit parking for residents is terrible. Just because it is common in Chicago does not make it right or fair. The roads are public property, not the private parking area of the neighbors. On weekends, I park at Damen and Addison and walk to the games. On weeknights, I park in Rogers Park and take the red line to the games. I don't think I'm taking the parking space of some resident any more than I'm taking their air when I breathe.

We'll have to agree to disagree then...

We're talking about residential areas - and for better or worse, Chicago neighborhoods are, as I'm sure you know, not unlike small towns. On a block -- or multi-block radius -- without a single commercial establishment, why shouldn't I have priority to park? As a resident, I'm most certainly paying more into the local tax base than someone buying a ticket or 2 a year to a ballgame.

The zoning is necessary to address a very specific issue and time - Cubs games. As I said - beyond Cubs games, parking isn't all that bad in my area... and it's most definitely gotten one heck of a lot worse over the years.

Drive in all you want - just use remote parking and public transportation to get into the immediate ballpark vicinity... If you're already parking in Rogers Park (where I've also lived and know from experience that parking is substantially easier for residents to find) - then you're already meeting the decidedly non-draconian wish I have.... hell - on weekends? Park where you want. My car never moves from the time it parks Friday evening until Tuesday (I generally telecommute on Mondays).

It's the weekday evenings that I - and I think most other residents - have a problem with.

If you're already parking in Rogers Park (where I've also lived and know from experience that parking is substantially easier for residents to find) - then you're already meeting the decidedly non-draconian wish I have.... hell - on weekends? Park where you want.

Then we're cool. Just don't expand the permit parking to my (no longer) secret spot on Damen. I think the parking restrictions in place now for night games are a reasonable compromise. I just think that, on principle, permit parking is wrong.

I find the belief of on-street parking "ownership" in Chicago laughable, that is why. You have ranted many times in this thread about your belief that you deserve a right to exclusive parking on your neighborhood streets since you live there. If you didn't want anyone to disagree, don't rant.

Not that I agree with zonk's position that the zones should be expanded, but this is just ridiculous. Residents of Wrigleyville -- or anywhere else -- SHOULD have a right to preferential parking in their area. Look at it this way: If you are coming in from the suburbs, you have various alternatives other than parking in Wrigleyville. OTOH, if you live in Lakeview, you don't have such an alternative.

Also, I'll observe that even within the areas covered under the night game restrictions, it isn't exactly easy to find parking even if you have the necessary permits.

As a resident, I'm most certainly paying more into the local tax base than someone buying a ticket or 2 a year to a ballgame.

But you may not be paying more than the collective of all people who might be parking on your street if they were headed to Wrigley.

The parking situation you describe is fairly common in West LA, especially in the Theater District along Santa Monica Blvd., and in West Hollywood on Sunset. Both have lots of attractions on the main boulevard, and both have little street parking and fairly densely packed residential neighborhoods nearby. Both have residents-only stickers with tow-away provisions for outsiders. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, but it does provide the local parking lots with extra revenue. Frank McCourt would surely approve.

Having spent a fair amount of time in the CTA's dispatch center on weekend nights as a contractor, it was pretty much constant mayhem -- knifings, assaults (often of the driver), etc.

I can't speak about buses, as I avoid them like the plague, by that's just Southern Californian in me. I'm not saying Will is lying. I'm sure what he saw really happened. But if you're going to a Cubs game, unless you pick up the Red Line south of Commiskey, they tend to get pretty full on their way Wrigley. And it's generally not a gangster crowd. I've left work some nights and taken the Red Line on a night when the Cubs play, and you can barely move, let alone rob someone. We're not exactly talking 2:00 am at the Howard stop.

If you are coming in from the suburbs, you have various alternatives other than parking in Wrigleyville. OTOH, if you live in Lakeview, you don't have such an alternative.

You could park in a garage. I pay $100 for off-street parking (the alley behind my apartment) in Lincoln Park, just because I don't want to come back from playing golf and drive around for half an hour trying to find a space. Most areas have garages that offer monthly parking somewhere in walking distance. You don't have to like the alternative, but it's an alternative. Crappy parking is the premium you pay for living in the city.

I think the people who live in my neighborhood have a right to a street space over a suburban dweller or other non-Chicago resident. But there's no good reason they should have a greater right to that space than someone who lives in Wicker Park.

Crappy parking is the premium you pay for living in the city.

QFT.

I think the people who live in my neighborhood have a right to a street space over a suburban dweller or other non-Chicago resident. But there's no good reason they should have a greater right to that space than someone who lives in Wicker Park.

I'm purposefully using the word "preference" rather than "right." Still, if residents of a given neighborhood should have a preference in parking in their neighborhood, why shouldn't that apply against everyone? The point isn't to punish suburbanites; it is to ensure that residents have ample parking opportunities.

Thus, as a Lakeview resident, I would expect Wicker Park or Lincoln Park residents to have a preferential ability to park in those neighborhoods over me. It's not something I like, of course, but it's something I accept as part of being in the city.

Still, if residents of a given neighborhood should have a preference in parking in their neighborhood, why shouldn't that apply against everyone?

Because presumably other city dwellers are actually paying taxes that support the city as a whole, and not individual neighborhoods. The taxes I pay and the taxes that someone in Lincoln Square pays all go to the same place. And by taxes I mean local sales/use taxes, city vehicle registration (in chicago), all government fees and such.

And by taxes I mean local sales/use taxes, city vehicle registration (in chicago), all government fees and such.

Not to mention - zone stickers cost money, too.

Fred nails it -- "preference", not "right". I'm not demanding a spot right in front of my door -- but I think it's reasonable to expect one within a 5-6 block radius... which is entirely possible and easy to accomplish any evening except for Cubs night games.

Ultimately, though -- it's academic. I've complained to my alderman about the fact that the night game zones stop where they do, and I've been told it's a pretty common complaint, and likely to change next season (the question is how far it will be expanded... ). And I'll say this for the parking gestapo -- they certainly do a thorough job enforcing the night game parking restrictions. I just want some of that on my side.

I suppose suburbanites that don't like it could support a different alderman... oh wait :-)