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Wednesday, August 10, 2011

Talking Chop:  Braves release Proctor, promote Vizcaino

Scott Proctor has been released, although the humane thing to do would be to take him out back, shoot him like a broken horse, and then shave that damned porn ‘stache off of his corpse.

Arodys Vizcaino called up to take his spot in the bullpen.  Randall Delgado is the lone member of the “Four Horsemen” to have not been called up in some role to date.

Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 10, 2011 at 02:25 PM | 24 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: braves, prospect reports

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   1. Honkie Kong Posted: August 10, 2011 at 04:24 PM (#3897109)
Delgado was called up from AA for a spot start
   2. Accent Shallow Posted: August 10, 2011 at 04:48 PM (#3897122)
Proctor had a K/BB ratio of less than one. I knew he'd been bad, but I didn't realize it had been so ugly.

Ouch.
   3. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 10, 2011 at 05:01 PM (#3897134)
Occasionally, the backlash crowd states that overuse of a pitcher means nothing, since Nolan Ryan used to throw 250 pitches a game. But this is fairly clearly an overuse-related decline, and I hope that Joe Torre tithes 5% of each paycheck directly to Proctor.
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: August 10, 2011 at 05:24 PM (#3897166)
Occasionally, the backlash crowd states that overuse of a pitcher means nothing, since Nolan Ryan used to throw 250 pitches a game. But this is fairly clearly an overuse-related decline, and I hope that Joe Torre tithes 5% of each paycheck directly to Proctor.


I've got to say, the gnashing of teeth over poor Scott Proctor's overuse at the hands of the evil Torre has long mystified me. He's always been a middle reliever, and never a particularly great one. He's the very definition of fungible, and the exact type of pitcher who gets overworked at the expense of pitchers with real value to the club.
   5. Rickey! On a blog from 1998. With the candlestick. Posted: August 10, 2011 at 06:30 PM (#3897249)
I missed the Delgado call up.

Proctor has been utterly abysmal in the majors this year. When you're begging for Christhian Martinez or George Sherrill...
   6. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 10, 2011 at 06:42 PM (#3897260)
In 2006, he was first in the league in innings pitched, and he doubled his innings from the year before. In 2007, he combined to pitch some 86 innings. If he had done that in just one league, it would have led it. I don't know if this proves overuse to a non-believer, but if there was malicious overuse of a relief pitcher, it would probably look at lot like Scott's bb-ref page.
   7. SoSH U at work Posted: August 10, 2011 at 06:48 PM (#3897270)
In 2006, he was first in the league in innings pitched, and he doubled his innings from the year before. In 2007, he combined to pitch some 86 innings. If he had done that in just one league, it would have led it. I don't know if this proves overuse to a non-believer, but if there was malicious overuse of a relief pitcher, it would probably look at lot like Scott's bb-ref page.


I take it you mean appearances, not IP.

Again, I'm not really questioning whether he was overworked (though someone's gotta lead the league), but why it's such a horrible thing Torre did. Proctor wasn't some young kid. He was old for a third-year pitcher, without any real reason to think he'd ascend to anything other than what he was - a bullpen arm.
   8. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 10, 2011 at 06:59 PM (#3897276)
My bad. You're correct, SoSH.

Yes, someone has to lead the league. But Proctor doubled his innings, from average (or below) for an everyday bullpen guy to leading the league in a single year. Joe Torre was "riding the hot hand", which is completely understandable. But I don't really have any doubt that if Proctor had never pitched for Torre, he'd have been able to be effective for a longer time. He was not a superstar, but bullpen arms with ERA+ numbers in the 120s are valuable commodities, not bridges to be burned down.
   9. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:16 PM (#3897299)
Also, Torre paved the roads with the corpses of once-effective pitchers who he killed. Off the top of my head:

Tanyon Sturtze
Paul Quantrill
Tom Gordon
   10. SteveM. Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:24 PM (#3897314)
Also, Torre paved the roads with the corpses of once-effective pitchers who he killed. Off the top of my head:

Tanyon Sturtze
Paul Quantrill
Tom Gordon


Wasn't Gordon in his late 30s by the time he got to the Yankees? And Sturtze never that good to begin with? And Quantrill and his men nothing more then damn bandits in Confederate gray?
   11. SoSH U at work Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:25 PM (#3897316)
Also, Torre paved the roads with the corpses of once-effective pitchers who he killed. Off the top of my head:

Tanyon Sturtze
Paul Quantrill
Tom Gordon


Tanyon Sturtze was never a terribly effective pitcher, other than in a 52-inning stint in Tampa Bay in 2001 - three years before Joe got his claws on him.

Paul Quantrill led the league in appearances for three straight years before he started working for Torre (at which point, Joe had him go for the quad).

Tom Gordon pitched until he was 78 years old (that one's off the top of my head).

These are the guys you overwork. Better to preserve your actual valuable pitchers (like the closer you've got who's still the best in the league at the age of 79) than to save the precious arms of essentially disposable relievers.
   12. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:29 PM (#3897319)
I've got to say, the gnashing of teeth over poor Scott Proctor's overuse at the hands of the evil Torre has long mystified me. He's always been a middle reliever, and never a particularly great one.

I don't really get it either. I understand trying to protect the arms of guys with big contract or kids who might be special someday (although no one has any, and I mean any, idea how to do it), but now you are hanging on managers that they have to protect fungible middle relief arms too? Why? The world can't be deprived of the next Jason Frasor? Use him, spit them out before you owe them real money and go on to the next failed starter.
   13. Mike Emeigh Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:30 PM (#3897320)
bullpen arms with ERA+ numbers in the 120s are valuable commodities, not bridges to be burned down


Proctor's walk rate has always been on the high side for a relief pitcher, he wasn't a big swing-and-miss guy, and those two things combined suggest exactly what SoSH was suggesting - that Proctor, ERA+ aside, was nothing more than one of the host of interchangeable guys in the middle of the bullpen.

Managing a bullpen with a big-inning offense like the Yankees have had can be a challenge. For a team like the Giants or Pirates, being down 3-4 runs after six innings often means that you are (essentially) out of the game and you can get the back of the pen some work. When you are the Yankees, being down 3-4 runs after six innings isn't necessarily a whole lot different than being down one or two runs at that point, and there's a real temptation to treat the situations in the same way. Torre, I think, did that.

-- MWE
   14. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:32 PM (#3897322)
Sturtze had a good stretch for the Yankees, but like the golden goose his future contributions were cut short before he could settle into an effective reliever.

Torre is not the only one who pitched his guys more than I thought was wise, but towards the end of his Yankee stint, he often had a functional 3 or 4 man bullpen, with those guys working a lot and no one else pitching much. He did wonderful, wonderful things for the team and got unexpectedly good production out of a bunch of guys. But ask anyone who was regularly following the Yankees in 2006 whether Torre overused Proctor and you'll only get one answer.
   15. TVerik, the gum-snappin' hairdresser Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:34 PM (#3897325)
Given a very similar roster and expectations, I think Girardi has done a much better job of distributing the workload in a more acceptable way than Torre did.
   16. Nasty Nate Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:34 PM (#3897326)
Torre paved the roads with the corpses of once-effective pitchers who he killed:

Paul Quantrill
Tom Gordon


Twasn't Torre who felled these men, twas the aught-four LCS...
   17. Barnaby Jones Posted: August 10, 2011 at 07:55 PM (#3897356)
THANKS THE HEAVENS
   18. Best Dressed Chicken in Town Posted: August 10, 2011 at 08:18 PM (#3897377)
In 2006, he doubled his innings from the year before.

Sure, if you ignore the 42 IP he also threw in the minors.
   19. eric Posted: August 10, 2011 at 11:30 PM (#3897474)
But Proctor doubled his innings, from average (or below) for an everyday bullpen guy to leading the league in a single year.


Proctor pitched 44.2 MLB innings in 2005, but also 42.2 MiL innings, for a total of 87.1 IP the year before he pitched 102.1. (In 2004, his total was 69 IP between MLB and MiL). Still a lot of innings for a relief pitcher, but not as huge a jump as it might seem if one just looks at his IP in MLB.

edit: I owe a chicken a 3-hour-old coke.
   20. rb's team is hopeful for the new year! Posted: August 11, 2011 at 02:31 AM (#3897664)
Kind of a cromulent start to his career.
   21. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: August 11, 2011 at 02:49 AM (#3897690)
Wasn't Gordon in his late 30s by the time he got to the Yankees?


Yep.

And Sturtze never that good to begin with?


Can't disagree with that.

And Quantrill and his men nothing more then damn bandits in Confederate gray?


Good day to you, sir.
   22. CFBF Is A Golden Spider Duck Posted: August 11, 2011 at 02:53 AM (#3897702)
At the risk of distracting from the Yankees discussion, two walks and a strikeout for Vizcaino in his big league debut. Jonny Venters had to come on for his 713th appearance of the year.
   23. Athletic Supporter can feel the slow rot Posted: August 11, 2011 at 03:16 AM (#3897734)
Jonny Venters had to come on for his 713th appearance of the year.


Only 149 to go to break Proctor's record!
   24. flournoy Posted: August 11, 2011 at 03:31 AM (#3897751)
Venters is on pace to pitch in 88 games, which would tie for 15th all time. Peter Moylan has the Braves' record with 87.

Venters already had a four game lead in the games pitched category in the major leagues this year. (There's a three way tie for second place with Craig Kimbrel among the three.) I know it's easy to be critical of the way Gonzalez has used Venters, Kimbrel, and O'Flaherty, but the three of them have combined for a 1.36 ERA. If you have that kind of a weapon, you had damn well better use it, and so far so good.

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