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Sunday, April 07, 2013

Tampa Bay Rays apologize for mascot holding offensive sign

I am sorry for holding up the funny, offensive sign.

Jim Furtado Posted: April 07, 2013 at 08:29 AM | 206 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: rays

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   1. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 07, 2013 at 08:41 AM (#4406543)
So it's important enough to write a story about it, but not important enough to tell the readers what the sign said or why it was offensive?

(It was about Steve Irwin.)
   2. Jim Furtado Posted: April 07, 2013 at 08:48 AM (#4406548)
That's what the link is for. :/
   3. Dan Posted: April 07, 2013 at 08:49 AM (#4406549)
I'm pretty sure they let the image speak for itself.
   4. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:05 AM (#4406551)
I thought they were some kind of weird Christian friendly sun rays now? Anyway, that's cruel, but pretty funny.
   5. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:11 AM (#4406553)
Funny sign.
   6. TerpNats Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:15 AM (#4406557)
I suppose Paws in Detroit won't be holding a sign naming humans eaten by tigers anytime soon.
   7. AndrewJ Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:18 AM (#4406560)
We're losing our sense of humor as a nation, people.
   8. Martin Hemner Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:19 AM (#4406561)
This kind of feels like a throwback. It's definitely offensive to some, but it's totally not political. Almost a breath of fresh air.
   9. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:22 AM (#4406563)
#6 A Roy Horn mention, perhaps?
   10. morineko Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:46 AM (#4406582)
Oh, it was a fan sign? When I saw this on Twitter a few days back, I responded that I didn't really think Darker and Edgier would work as a mascot trope.
   11. Jose Can Still Seabiscuit Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:48 AM (#4406583)
The apology is the right thing to do but that was funny.
   12. John Northey Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:50 AM (#4406585)
Wait a minute... the Rays have fans? Ones who actually make signs? Plus ones who could get offended by that sign (meaning at least 2 people came to a game)? Wow. Who knew?

Btw, Rays are down 6,740 fans per game through 5 games but are doing better than the White Sox and A's for per-game attendance. Sure shows why the Rays and A's owners want to move.
   13. McCoy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:58 AM (#4406590)
You'll always find one person in a crowd who finds something offensive. I remember going to the Phillies home opener a decade ago when they played the song War and some guy got all offended and complained about the Phillies using that song.
   14. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 07, 2013 at 10:06 AM (#4406592)
Btw, Rays are down 6,740 fans per game through 5 games but are doing better than the White Sox and A's for per-game attendance.


I had no idea that the White Sox were pulling in so few fans. I know that the weather has been kind of shitty, but they play in a really major market.
   15. McCoy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 10:14 AM (#4406596)
The Rays played the Yankees in the home opening series last year and then played their next home series two weeks later and it also was a weekend series. Meanwhile this year the Rays have played the Orioles and Indians with the home opening series played during the weekday. Yesterday's game drew 32.000 fans. If the Rays had two weekend series this year with one of the teams being the Yankees they would have about the same attendance as they did last year.
   16. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 07, 2013 at 10:42 AM (#4406604)
This otherwise genius appearance, taped about one week after Irwin's death, is saddled with Jon Stewart doing a contrived "oh no, oh dear, oh my heavens" act.
   17. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 07, 2013 at 11:02 AM (#4406615)
This otherwise genius appearance, taped about one week after Irwin's death, is saddled with Jon Stewart doing a contrived "oh no, oh dear, oh my heavens" act.


I couldn't get the volume to work on that link.

The youtube video is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qODmxg_dUuI

I love Stewart's "please don't make me laugh at this" line.
   18. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: April 07, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4406637)
We're losing our sense of humor as a nation, people.

Gee, I wonder why that is.
   19. BDC Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:04 PM (#4406642)
Texas Rangers To-Do List

1. Tejano Civil Rights
2. Indigenous peoples
3. Labor Activists
4. Season Series vs. Angels

   20. Swedish Chef Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:13 PM (#4406646)
Seattle Mariners todo-list:

1. Shoot Albatross
2. Lose abjectly forever and ever
   21. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:16 PM (#4406651)
Phillies to-do list:

1. Get through the Triple Crown without collapsing and being euthanized on the track
2. Finish ahead of Mets
   22. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:19 PM (#4406652)
Brewers to-do list:

1. Kill a bunch of alcoholics
   23. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:24 PM (#4406656)
Rockies to-do list:

1. Something, something Bullwinkle.
2. Something, something humidor.
   24. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:40 PM (#4406661)
Reds to-do list:
1. Ask for Sal Lami, Hal Jalikakick, and Stu Pitt.
2. Put the Z-Z on both cheeks of your life.
3. Pay you five hundred dollars to come down here.
4. Open your belly up and show you all the black stuff ya got inside.
   25. valuearbitrageur Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4406665)
I was just glad that Ray got Steve Irwin before he got one of his kids killed, then I found out how annoying his daughter is and I was like, conflicted
   26. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: April 07, 2013 at 12:50 PM (#4406668)
Sweet to-do list:
1. Ready, Steve?
2. Andy?
3. Mick?
4. All right, fellas...let's GOOOOO!!!!!!!
   27. Benji Posted: April 07, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4406679)
Still laughing at #24. I'm 55 and never heard any of those fake names. I thought Al Bumen and Mike Hunt were the elite but those three are hilarious!
   28. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: April 07, 2013 at 01:42 PM (#4406721)
I had no idea that the White Sox were pulling in so few fans. I know that the weather has been kind of shitty, but they play in a really major market.


They've played the Royals and Mariners, mostly in bad weather. Do you really want to go sit out in 38 degrees to watch the Royals? If so, why do you hate yourself?

EDIT: But yesterday it was mostly sunny and in the 50s, and they got ~22,000 against the Mariners. Their support isn't great, but it will be better than that eventually as the weather turns, and they'll draw their customary ~2 million.
   29. Rennie's Tenet Posted: April 07, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4406753)
I don't find the sign remotely funny, and neither will the four people I forwarded the link to.
   30. TerpNats Posted: April 07, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4406851)
IIRC, isn't there some sort of reconstruction project on the Dan Ryan which makes Chisox games tougher to drive to?
   31. Mayor Blomberg Posted: April 07, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4406856)
29 - once I googled Steve Irwin, I found the sign funny. But I also recognize that I have an often inappropriate sense of humor.
   32. McCoy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 03:44 PM (#4406866)
Isn't the red line getting shut down next month?
   33. Howie Menckel Posted: April 07, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4406869)

"I thought Al Bumen and Mike Hunt were the elite but those three are hilarious!"

Phil McCracken is far easier to pull off than the better-known Heywood Jablome.

   34. GEB4000 Posted: April 07, 2013 at 03:53 PM (#4406878)
Australians are an important part of Tampa's fan base.
   35. GEB4000 Posted: April 07, 2013 at 03:57 PM (#4406882)
It's not Westboro Baptist Church offensive. More like in bad taste.
   36. LooseCannon Posted: April 07, 2013 at 04:36 PM (#4406910)
Jets to-do list:

1. World Trade Center
2. Find a quarterback that fans aren't ashamed of
   37. Ulysses S. Fairsmith Posted: April 07, 2013 at 05:16 PM (#4406956)
I don't understand these fake name jokes.
   38. Walt Davis Posted: April 07, 2013 at 05:30 PM (#4406982)
Cubs to-do list

1. Make a to-do list
   39. Walt Davis Posted: April 07, 2013 at 05:33 PM (#4406989)
By the way, I find it neither funny nor offensive. It's just not topical -- Irwin died over 6 years ago -- nor famous enough in a US or bseball context to work. Obviously it's fine if you know who Irwin is (I do) and that he was killed by a ray (I didn't know that precisely).
   40. Steve Treder Posted: April 07, 2013 at 05:41 PM (#4407003)
That Steve Irwin got himself killed by a dangerous wild animal is flipping hilarious. If it's possible for any human being to have worked tirelessly to actively deserve that grisly fate, he achieved it.
   41. cardsfanboy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 05:54 PM (#4407022)
There are people who don't understand why that sign was offensive? Seriously? Wow. Basic rule of something offensive, is making a joke about someone's death, that is pretty much common sense. It might be funny , I always loved the old joke about what it would take to get the Beatles back together, and the answer was three more bullets---before Harrison's death of course, but that doesn't mean I don't know it's an offensive joke.

Jokes on someone's death is easier to understand people taking offense about, over silly crap like calling a person a name like retard, gay, etc.
   42. Esoteric Posted: April 07, 2013 at 06:05 PM (#4407040)
That Steve Irwin got himself killed by a dangerous wild animal is flipping hilarious. If it's possible for any human being to have worked tirelessly to actively deserve that grisly fate, he achieved it.
Seeing as how Steve Irwin did more to raise awareness about wildlife preservation and conservation, and donated tons of money to that end, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
   43. BDC Posted: April 07, 2013 at 06:11 PM (#4407048)
Jokes on someone's death is easier to understand people taking offense about, over silly crap

Except … death is the one thing we all, absolutely, unavoidably, have in common. In an odd way that means that the silly crap, if less cosmically serious, is more offensive; it discriminates, and dying does not. Some of the funniest things I ever read here were jokes cracked by (the late) John Brattain at the expense of celebrity deaths, and I'm sure he'd be cracking some about his own death if he could log in from the Beyond. Since none of us knows how elegantly we're going to go, it tends to be a source of humor when somebody makes a splash upon exit.
   44. McCoy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 06:12 PM (#4407049)
Yes all those people watching him wrestle crocodiles did a lot to preserve wildlife. Irwin was an entertainer who got famous and made money by basically sticking his hand down a crocodile's mouth.
   45. cardsfanboy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 06:18 PM (#4407059)
Except … death is the one thing we all, absolutely, unavoidably, have in common. In an odd way that means that the silly crap, if less cosmically serious, is more offensive; it discriminates, and dying does not. Some of the funniest things I ever read here were jokes cracked by (the late) John Brattain at the expense of celebrity deaths, and I'm sure he'd be cracking some about his own death if he could log in from the Beyond. Since none of us knows how elegantly we're going to go, it tends to be a source of humor when somebody makes a splash upon exit.


Don't disagree that they can be funny. Heck it's great to laugh in the face of a tragedy also, but that doesn't mean it's not offensive. Part of the value of the humor is the "Oh my god, I can't believe they said that." It's a shock joke, which can be funny as heck.

It's not that hard to see funny and offensive aren't necessarily separate.
   46. McCoy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 06:29 PM (#4407072)
You made this rape really awkward.
   47. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 07, 2013 at 06:57 PM (#4407097)
What if Anne Frank had been killed by a stingray? Would anyone be laughing then?
   48. Jim Wisinski Posted: April 07, 2013 at 07:04 PM (#4407103)
That Steve Irwin got himself killed by a dangerous wild animal is flipping hilarious. If it's possible for any human being to have worked tirelessly to actively deserve that grisly fate, he achieved it.


He wasn't really killed by a dangerous animal though, stingrays can hurt you but it terms of serious permanent damage are usually pretty harmless. His death was just a fluke, having the stinger pierce his chest.
   49. LooseCannon Posted: April 07, 2013 at 07:38 PM (#4407121)
What if Anne Frank had been killed by a stingray? Would anyone be laughing then?


Stingrays aren't kosher, so yes.
   50. McCoy Posted: April 07, 2013 at 07:45 PM (#4407124)
Tuesday, 11 April, 1944
Dear Kitty . . . .
   51. 'Spos Posted: April 07, 2013 at 08:18 PM (#4407137)
Rockies to-do list:

1. Something, something Bullwinkle.
2. Something, something humidor.


That trick never works...
   52. Howie Menckel Posted: April 07, 2013 at 09:12 PM (#4407156)

"I don't understand these fake name jokes."

Phil McCracken is a command.
Heywood Jablome is a request.
Mike Hunt is a statement of ownership.
Sal Lami is a lunchmeat.
Hal Jalikakick is a question.
Stu Pitt is.... someone who doesn't understand all these.

:)

   53. cmd600 Posted: April 07, 2013 at 10:52 PM (#4407195)
I had no idea that the White Sox were pulling in so few fans. I know that the weather has been kind of shitty, but they play in a really major market.


Didn't they stop CTA service to the stop specifically designed for the stadium? Chicago was a pain in the ass to get around before that, and godspeed to the man who wants to leave his car unattended most of the day on the south side.
   54. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 07, 2013 at 10:56 PM (#4407198)
Seattle Mariners todo-list:

1. Shoot Albatross
2. Lose abjectly forever and ever

3. move up to 5th
   55. The District Attorney Posted: April 07, 2013 at 11:46 PM (#4407219)
I feel like there were a good number of Irwin/Tampa Bay Ray jokes among baseball fans at the time (BTW, even putting aside that the team is now presumably named after sun rays and not any sort of fish, is a stingray even the same thing as a "devil ray"?) So, I had heard this one before. But if you hadn't, and if you remember this rather dated news event, then sure, it was probably funny.

A family-friendly baseball team mascot, however, is presumably not the best way to relay the joke, at least if you own the Tampa Bay team, anyway.
   56. Guapo Posted: April 08, 2013 at 03:53 AM (#4407241)
Dodgers to-do list:

1. Dodge lethal attack by sting ray
   57. Greg K Posted: April 08, 2013 at 04:10 AM (#4407242)
What if Anne Frank had been killed by a stingray? Would anyone be laughing then?

I recall my friend and I stringing together several Anne Frank jokes while on a walking tour of Amsterdam, which included some Frank related stops.

A kiwi couple over-hearing us asked us to stop, but they were laughing while doing so, so perhaps we were straddling the inclusive fence of funny and offensive cardfansboy lays out.
   58. Ulysses S. Fairsmith Posted: April 08, 2013 at 06:21 AM (#4407249)
Before saying I didn't understand the fake name jokes, I had changed my screen name to Holden McGroin. I didn't realize that when I changed my name back, it would change the name on the post, destroying my joke. Oh, well.
   59. Russ Posted: April 08, 2013 at 06:22 AM (#4407250)
Pirates To-Do List:

1. Sign Lonnie Smith as a free agent.
2. Finish above .500.

   60. Drexl Spivey Posted: April 08, 2013 at 07:49 AM (#4407252)
I don't understand these fake name jokes.


You'll get it if you watch http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTODkW-fV3k
   61. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 08:06 AM (#4407256)
That's what the link is for. :/


Unless thre's some component that isn't loading on my mobile browser, TFA you linked doesn't say. Hence my comment.

TFA does include a link to a page on Deadspin that talks about the actual sign, but it's irritating that they made you click through to a separate site for the whole story, rather than just saying what the whole thing was about in the first place.
   62. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: April 08, 2013 at 08:12 AM (#4407259)
There's a gigantic picture of the sign in the middle of TFA. Maybe your ad blocker is being overzealous or something.
   63. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 08:25 AM (#4407265)
I don't have an ad blocker, because I'm looking at it from my phone.

For me, the page has only one photo: a generic shot of the mascot with his hands in the air, at the top of the article.
   64. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 08:30 AM (#4407268)
If the public that made Steve Irwin rich wants to have some laughs at his family's expense, the public has my permission to do so.

Then again, I think this is hilarious, so I might not be the right person to ask.
   65. Bitter Mouse Posted: April 08, 2013 at 09:08 AM (#4407289)
I think it is funny and in poor taste. The sort of thing a person can say/write, but an organization probably shouldn't.
   66. BDC Posted: April 08, 2013 at 09:09 AM (#4407290)
funny and offensive aren't necessarily separate

True enough, and perspective and timing can lead to very different reactions to such jokes.
   67. McCoy Posted: April 08, 2013 at 09:24 AM (#4407302)
I think it is funny and in poor taste. The sort of thing a person can say/write, but an organization probably shouldn't.

But corporations are people.
   68. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 09:30 AM (#4407305)
OK, now that I'm looking at it from a desktop browser, I see what everyone was talking about.

Stupid mobile sites...
   69. zack Posted: April 08, 2013 at 09:43 AM (#4407313)
Look, if you don't want people to make fun of how you died, then you shouldn't die in a funny way! Papercut, manhole, etc.
   70. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 09:43 AM (#4407314)
My personal to-do list:

1. Make a to-do list.
2. Cross things off of it
3. Achieve infinite recursion.
   71. Guapo Posted: April 08, 2013 at 10:06 AM (#4407319)
Wikipedia's List of Unusual Deaths page will now consume the next hour of your life.

Relevancy bonus: Jim Creighton, Ray Chapman, Len Koenecke, and Bo Diaz all made the list.

EDIT: Possibly the all-time champion-

1983: Dick Wertheim was an American tennis linesman who died from blunt cranial trauma at a match at the 1983 US Open. Stefan Edberg sent an errant serve directly into his groin, causing him to fall and hit his head on the pavement.
   72. zack Posted: April 08, 2013 at 10:19 AM (#4407330)
I recommend not reading the list in #71, because it will make you think that everything is out to get you.

For example, between the London Beer Flood and the Boston Molasses Disaster, I am now afraid of tanks of liquid.
   73. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 10:39 AM (#4407349)
Relevancy bonus: Jim Creighton, Ray Chapman, Len Koenecke, and Bo Diaz all made the list.


I'm pretty sure I was the one who added Len Koenecke, back in the day. Also Thomas Midgley, Jr.

If you liked that page, you may also enjoy List of premature obituaries or List of sportspeople who died during their careers. The latter is relatively incomplete, unfortunately, particularly as far as baseball is concerned.
   74. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 08, 2013 at 10:43 AM (#4407355)
I understand that a good many folks will be lining up to p8ss on my grave after I die but that doesn't mean I think mocking the dead is ok.

until ned yost is gone from this earthly plane

then there will be an exception
   75. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 10:46 AM (#4407357)
I have an acquaintance who's known Art Mahaffey for decades, who swears the only time he ever saw Art happy was the day Gene Mauch died.
   76. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 08, 2013 at 12:01 PM (#4407441)
I think that once you've accepted crucifixion jokes and "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?", it's kind of tough to get too worked up about any joke made about any person's death. Or at least it's hard to formulate a reason for being worked up that's not totally subjective.** I thought the Rays sign was kind of droll myself, but then I had to google the guy's name before I even know what it meant.

**I can think of lots of exceptions where I would take offense, but not one that involved a celebrity stuntman who died a rather ironic death over six years ago.
   77. Jim Wisinski Posted: April 08, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4407490)
is a stingray even the same thing as a "devil ray"?


No, devil rays are Manta Rays, the giant ones that don't sting.
   78. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 12:47 PM (#4407496)
a celebrity stuntman


Not really, no. He was a zookeeper who made TV programs about animals, like an Australian version of Jack Hanna. This isn't one of the guys from "Jackass".
   79. cardsfanboy Posted: April 08, 2013 at 12:52 PM (#4407503)
I think that once you've accepted crucifixion jokes and "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?", it's kind of tough to get too worked up about any joke made about any person's death. Or at least it's hard to formulate a reason for being worked up that's not totally subjective.** I thought the Rays sign was kind of droll myself, but then I had to google the guy's name before I even know what it meant.


Again, it's not about the joke as much as it's about the mascot holding the sign (big note. It wasn't his sign, he was holding up a fans sign, so it mitigates the offensiveness of this some) You expect a certain level of professionalism and tact from "Official" licensed properties, even mascots. (outside of Cleveland, Atlanta and Washington DC)





   80. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 08, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4407507)
a celebrity stuntman

Not really, no. He was a zookeeper who made TV programs about animals, like an Australian version of Jack Hanna. This isn't one of the guys from "Jackass".


Okay, after further reading, I see that you're right, and while the sign still doesn't offend me, its point is pretty much muted.
   81. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:03 PM (#4407514)
Irwin's death and Owen Hart's fatal fall have to be considered the ass yet unseen holy grails of shock videos.
   82. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:08 PM (#4407517)
He wasn't really killed by a dangerous animal though, stingrays can hurt you but it terms of serious permanent damage are usually pretty harmless. His death was just a fluke, having the stinger pierce his chest.


He was filming a documentary called "Ocean's Deadliest" (an all too appropriate name as it turned out), and as part of that he was swimming on top of a stingray, and if he wasn't intentionally effing with it, at best he was bothering it to the point where it felt trapped, and it lashed out.

It was caught on tape though the footage destroyed.

I am no animal lover but my view is that they should be left alone if at all possible, which includes disrupting them in the filming of documentaries (if you can do it without disturbing them, fine, but obviously Irwin couldn't), and putting them in zoos for people to gawk at them, basically.
   83. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:11 PM (#4407519)
79: agreed.
80: while i'm with you on the joke, andy - i will grant the fan that rooting for a team called 'the rays' doesn't give you much to work with.
82: that's pretty much my stance as well, ray - though i do take my children to zoos, which i guess makes me a hypocrite.
   84. Tom T Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:16 PM (#4407524)
Not really, no. He was a zookeeper who made TV programs about animals, like an Australian version of Jack Hanna. This isn't one of the guys from "Jackass".


Absolutely. He was highly passionate about the animals and clearly loved interacting with them. That said, it was also (painfully, at times) obvious that he was into the rush associated with danger, so the general nature of his demise was rather inevitable, though the specific end was NOT what I ever would have anticipated. Gut feeling is that he got a bit too complacent about the ray, given that they are NOT aggressive.

Was certainly saddened to hear he had died, because whether one likes the shtick or not, the passion was admirable...and my then-toddler kids very much enjoyed his show.

All that said, I did find the sign to be darkly humorous. (Only based on his on-air personality -- so YMMV -- I also suspect Irwin would have found it funny in a "Yep, they got me!" kind of way.)
   85. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:18 PM (#4407526)
Not really, no. He was a zookeeper who made TV programs about animals, like an Australian version of Jack Hanna. This isn't one of the guys from "Jackass".


I disagree. He made a big show (both literally and figuratively) of effing with animals, particularly crocodiles, in order to... well, I don't know why, exactly, since I'm not Irwin. Prove that he could? Make money? Become a celebrity? I just know that he did it.

Hanna doesn't go around screwing with animals.
   86. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4407530)
That said, it was also (painfully, at times) obvious that he was into the rush associated with danger,


Yes. Like with Siegfried and Roy, it's not exactly shocking when moronic publicity stunts with dangerous animals turn out badly.

But of course then we have to discuss whether the animal needs to be put down, completely ignoring the fact that the animal wasn't the problem - the people were.
   87. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4407535)
I remember my reaction to Dale Earnhardt's untimely demise was similar to Irwin's; my only surprise about Earnhardt was that it took him that long to get himself killed in a wreck. Dude was a brilliant driver; he also drove like a lunatic. (Though, remarkably, that's not why he got killed; that was just a freak accident that could have happened to anyone.)
   88. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:34 PM (#4407542)
always puzzles me when some lion or tiger is put down after a person gets itself mauled at a zoo

the predator is just doing what nature requires it do. what is the reasoning in having it killed?

   89. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:36 PM (#4407544)
I remember my reaction to Dale Earnhardt's untimely demise was similar to Irwin's; my only surprise about Earnhardt was that it took him that long to get himself killed in a wreck. Dude was a brilliant driver; he also drove like a lunatic. (Though, remarkably, that's not why he got killed; that was just a freak accident that could have happened to anyone.)


I don't think your parenthetical about it being a freak accident (within the context of an inherently dangerous activity, of course) is correct. I don't know anything about racing so I would never have been able to pick this up on my own, but I recall at the time that commentators said Earnhardt was trying to pull a risky block move or something to box out some racer from another "team" and it went wrong.
   90. cardsfanboy Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:41 PM (#4407551)
always puzzles me when some lion or tiger is put down after a person gets itself mauled at a zoo

the predator is just doing what nature requires it do. what is the reasoning in having it killed?


Same reason why if a bird turds on my car, I go out and cook a chicken outdoors so that the birds can see what will happen to them if they keep it up. By killing the predator it sends a message to the other predators to not prey on people. :)
   91. Swedish Chef Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4407554)
the predator is just doing what nature requires it do. what is the reasoning in having it killed?

If it kills a handler, it obviously poses a risk to them, being too big or too aggressive or whatever. Added to that, that it has received positive feedback from its decision to go on the attack makes it more likely to be similarly aggressive and less likely to respect handlers in the future. So there's valid reasons to do away with it.

Now, if it just kills some random lunatic entering their enclosure, that seems rather unfair. Still, it's validation of aggression against humans.

I mean, they should know who's the apex predator, and it's not them.
   92. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4407560)
I don't know anything about racing so I would never have been able to pick this up on my own, but I recall at the time that commentators said Earnhardt was trying to pull a risky block move or something to box out some racer from another "team" and it went wrong.


He was, but the blocking is something everyone did, and does, at superspeedways; it's the nature of racing there. In fact there was a quote from Tony Stewart a few days before Earnhardt's death wherein he complained about superspeedway racing and how dangerous blocking was.

Earnhardt was running in third place, the two cars he owned (one driven by his son) were running 1-2 in front of them, and the story goes that with a flagging car he was trying his best to keep the rest of the field off them. I honestly doubt that had a lot to do with it, though; he was a race car driver and I'm sure his primary concern was himself finishing as high as possible. He wrecked on the last of the race's 1000 turns, and was presumably trying to stay in third place because it was worth more points than fourth place.

always puzzles me when some lion or tiger is put down after a person gets itself mauled at a zoo

the predator is just doing what nature requires it do. what is the reasoning in having it killed?


They really should have some kind of deterrent to people climbing those walls in zoos. Like a dangerous animal that will maul and kill them if they do, or something.
   93. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4407562)
Same reason why if a bird turds on my car, I go out and cook a chicken outdoors so that the birds can see what will happen to them if they keep it up. By killing the predator it sends a message to the other predators to not prey on people. :)


While you're joking, there's some evidence, sadly, that people did this in the wake of Irwin's death:

In the weeks following Irwin's death, at least ten stingrays were found dead and mutilated on the beaches of Queensland, with their tails cut off, prompting speculation as to whether they might have been killed by fans of Irwin as an act of revenge.[101] Michael Hornby, a friend of Irwin and executive director of his Wildlife Warrior fund, condemned any revenge killings, saying that "We just want to make it very clear that we will not accept and not stand for anyone who's taken a form of retribution. That's the last thing Steve would want."[102]

   94. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:51 PM (#4407563)
Swedish

is that based on information from zoologists or just conjecture?

because I have put that question to members of the Milwaukee zoo and nobody will respond with anything animal related.

these are wild animals. they are always dangerous

and while I have not been surrounded by wild tigers or the such I am an outdoorsmen and have been around wild animals all my life. killing an animal bcause it followed its innate programming makes no sense to me
   95. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:55 PM (#4407565)
He was, but the blocking is something everyone did, and does, at superspeedways; it's the nature of racing there. In fact there was a quote from Tony Stewart a few days before Earnhardt's death wherein he complained about superspeedway racing and how dangerous blocking was.


I was under the impression that Earnhardt had a more dangerous driving style than was/is the norm on the track. From wiki:

His aggressive driving style earned him the nickname "The Intimidator".
...
The 1986 season saw Earnhardt win his second career Winston Cup Championship and the first owner's championship for RCR. He won five races and had ten Top 5 and sixteen Top 10 finishes. Earnhardt successfully defended his championship the following year, visiting victory lane eleven times and winning the championship by 489 points over Bill Elliott. In the process, Earnhardt set a NASCAR modern era record of four consecutive wins and won five of the first seven races. In the 1987 season, Earnhardt earned his nickname "The Intimidator" after spinning out Elliott in the final segment of "The Winston", a non-points event now known as the NASCAR Sprint All-Star Race. During this race, Earnhardt was briefly forced into the infield grass, but kept control of his car and returned to the track without giving up his lead — a maneuver now referred to as the "Pass in the Grass" even though Earnhardt actually didn't pass and couldn't have passed anyone for position as he was in the lead at the time.


Granted I don't know exactly what "spinning out Elliot" means.
   96. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 01:56 PM (#4407567)
Agree with Harvey.
   97. Rants Mulliniks Posted: April 08, 2013 at 02:02 PM (#4407575)
My friend didn't find it that funny that I chose to show him the funeral home scene from the Big Lebowski when he was grieving his grandmother's death...... I, on the other hand thought it would have been the perfect pick-me-up.
   98. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 08, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4407584)
these are wild animals. they are always dangerous

and while I have not been surrounded by wild tigers or the such I am an outdoorsmen and have been around wild animals all my life. killing an animal because it followed its innate programming makes no sense to me


Evolution, if you kill the predators that harass humans, the ones that don't harass humans will have more offspring than the ones who do, eventually given enough generations the species as a whole will be less human unfriendly.

For instance, in Africa where humans and lions have co-existed for thousands of generations, lions generally avoid livestock enclosures- that's because for hundreds of generations lions who went after the animals in such enclosures were more likely to be killed than ones who didn't.

Of course none of that justifies killing a zoo animal


   99. Swedish Chef Posted: April 08, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4407585)
is that based on information from zoologists or just conjecture?

Animals can learn just fine. There's nothing controversial in that.

these are wild animals. they are always dangerous

killing an animal bcause it followed its innate programming makes no sense to me


Animals in zoos aren't tame, but they aren't exactly wild either, they have grown up with humans in an artificial environment and get fed. It's not the animal's fault if they handle that environment badly, but on the other hand it's a safety issue for the humans. It's not like you can release a zoo animal in the wild just like that.
   100. Ray (RDP) Posted: April 08, 2013 at 02:16 PM (#4407591)
Evolution, if you kill the predators that harass humans, the ones that don't harass humans will have more offspring than the ones who do, eventually given enough generations the species as a whole will be less human unfriendly.

...

Of course none of that justifies killing a zoo animal


Well, yeah. In the zoo or Siegfriend/Roy setting, there is no "harrassing of humans" going on. The beings being harrassed are the animals.
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