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Sunday, February 05, 2012

Tampa Bay Times: Cecil Fielder chides his son Prince at Ted Williams Hitters Hall of Fame induction

“As a father, of course you’re proud of what your son’s been able to accomplish on the field,” Cecil Fielder, 48, said. “But as a father also you worry about how he is growing as a man, how — I want to say this correctly — how he is communicating with everybody that had something to do with how he got to where he is. And that part of my son, I think we’re all a little disappointed.”

Cecil Fielder said Prince has no relationship with any members of their extended family, including his ill grandparents; he “hides behind” agent Scott Boras’ representatives to dodge discussing his family; and he shows no appreciation for those who helped him along the way.

For example, Cecil Fielder said: “We all knew the kid was obese. He had a hard time running to first base without getting tired. You don’t transform your body by yourself, you’ve got to have trainers, you’ve got to have people cooking for you, there’s a lot of things that go into that. …

“There’s a lot of people that wish he would get over whatever he’s got going on with his self. … And once he gets rid of that, I think those people he needs to reach out to other than me, I think hopefully he will.”

Cecil Fielder said he took family to see Prince play in Atlanta a few years ago and when they went into the family waiting area postgame, security made them leave. As a result, he has no plans to see Prince continue the family legacy in Detroit, though he also said Tigers owner Mike Ilitch “is concerned” about their relationship.

“I know what I did for my son, and he knows what I did for him,” Cecil Fielder said. “I’m going to take the high road, stay away from it and not cause any friction. … You play for the Tigers, I played for the Tigers, do your thing. … If you want to stay stuck whatever cocoon you’re in, stay there, but I’m not going to join you.”

Tripon Posted: February 05, 2012 at 05:07 AM | 116 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: miami, tigers

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   1. AJM Posted: February 05, 2012 at 09:15 AM (#4053782)
I can't imagine why Prince wants nothing to do with him.
   2. Flynn Posted: February 05, 2012 at 09:16 AM (#4053783)
Didn't Cecil steal Prince's signing bonus to feed his gambling habit?
   3. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: February 05, 2012 at 09:35 AM (#4053785)
“I’m going to take the high road, stay away from it and not cause any friction. …


Yeah, because talking to the press about it certainly doesn't cause any friction.
   4. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: February 05, 2012 at 09:38 AM (#4053786)
Sort of on the subject: Is Price Fielder the most out-of-shape player in baseball history to get a seven-year deal - much less for the kind of money he is getting?

For any Brewers fan reading this - has his weight fluctuated much over the years? What's he weigh right now?
   5. dlf Posted: February 05, 2012 at 09:40 AM (#4053787)
Inducted into the Ted Williams Hitters Hall of Fame? I know when I think of the Splendid Splinter, the first person that comes to mind is Cecil Fielder. Listed on bbref as 230# ... bringing to mind the Bill James line about wondering what the weight would have been if his other foot had been on the scale too.
   6. Dale Sams Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:21 AM (#4053791)
Given that I can't fit either one in a Caucasian Chalk Circle...I'm just going to have to side with Prince.
   7. Joe Bivens, Idiot Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:24 AM (#4053792)
While you may read the father's quotes and feel uncomfortable about them, it's possible, even likely, that the family's dysfunction contributes to Prince's weight problems. Eating disorders have root causes. It would make sense that he eats to self-medicate. Or not.
   8. tigertears Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:52 AM (#4053797)
No Self Awareness Baseball Hall of Fame. Initial inductees--Lenny Dykstra, Pete Rose, Cecil Fielder.
   9. Benji Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:55 AM (#4053799)
Cecil Fielder gives gall a new definition. What he did to his kid was reprehensible and Prince is the bad guy? Make room on the rocket to Neptune Fay, Pete, Canseco and Sandy. Cecil needs to go away too. Make lots of room.
   10. ray james Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4053801)
No Self Awareness Baseball Hall of Fame. Initial inductees--Lenny Dykstra, Pete Rose, Cecil Fielder.


...Jose Canseco and Roger Clemens
   11. Swedish Chef Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4053802)
No Self Awareness Baseball Hall of Fame. Initial inductees--Lenny Dykstra, Pete Rose, Cecil Fielder.

Lenny did also squander Cutter Dykstra's signing bonus on "investments".
   12. Dale Sams Posted: February 05, 2012 at 11:24 AM (#4053810)
Lenny did also squander Cutter Dykstra's signing bonus on "investments".


Cutter, Prince, Clemens' 'K' fetish...I'm sensing a trend.
   13. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: February 05, 2012 at 12:05 PM (#4053819)
If you want to stay stuck whatever cocoon you’re in, stay there, but I’m not going to join you.


Heh. Reminds me of a song from the 80's called "If You Leave me, Can I Come Too?"
   14. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 05, 2012 at 12:08 PM (#4053821)
I think we owe Prince a debt of gratitude. Without him who knows what Cecil would do to stay in the public eye.
   15. Dale Sams Posted: February 05, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4053822)
I have a Mental As Anything track called 'Close Again' on the Maiden Australia album.
   16. Bob Evans Posted: February 05, 2012 at 12:23 PM (#4053829)
How on earth does Cecil get the media's ear so often? With so many dysfunctional families, why do we hear about his? This is a mystery to me.
   17. tigertears Posted: February 05, 2012 at 12:47 PM (#4053840)
I think Canseco's getting a bad rap. Canseco is "I may be an ass, but ... ." We all know people like that, and as long as you don't know too many of them, they have some redeeming virtues. Fielder and Dykstra are real sociopaths.
   18. ray james Posted: February 05, 2012 at 12:50 PM (#4053841)
Cutter, Prince, Clemens' 'K' fetish...I'm sensing a trend.


If my father named me Cutter, I'd kick his ass as soon as I was old enough.
   19. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 05, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4053846)
If my father named me Cutter, I'd kick his ass as soon as I was old enough.


Careful. He might cut off a piece of your ear.
   20. Teufel's Graveyard Posted: February 05, 2012 at 01:03 PM (#4053848)
Here's a picture of Fielder in 2011

Here is a picture of him in 2008

In my opinion, one of the reasons that Prince has had the alternating good years pattern is that he has struggled to learn how to control his weight. In 2008, I remember him hitting a ball that should have easily been a double, and he got thrown out because his weight was slowing him down so much.
   21. Dale Sams Posted: February 05, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4053855)
I think Canseco's getting a bad rap


On February 10, 1989, Canseco was arrested for reckless driving after allegedly leading an officer on a 15-mile chase. He was found guilty and fined $500.[24]

On April 11, 1989, Canseco was arrested in California for carrying a loaded semi-automatic pistol in his car.[25] He was released on $2,500 bail and pled no contest.[26][27]

On February 13, 1992, he was charged with aggravated battery for allegedly ramming his then-wife Esther's BMW with his Porsche.[25] On March 19, 1992, Canseco pled not guilty to charges of aggravated assault and later underwent counseling and fulfilled a community-service requirement.[28]

Canseco was arrested in November 1997 for hitting his then-wife, Jessica. In January 1998, he pled no contest and was sentenced to one year probation and required to attend counseling.[29]

In October 2001, Canseco and his brother, Ozzie, got into a fight with two California tourists at a Miami Beach nightclub that left one man with a broken nose and another needing 20 stitches in his lip; both were charged with two counts of aggravated battery. The brothers both pleaded guilty and received both probation and community service.[30]

In March 2003, Canseco missed a court appearance while in California working out a custody dispute over his 6-year old. The judge revoked his probation and sentenced him to two years under house arrest followed by three years probation.[31]

In June 2003, Canseco was arrested at his home for probation violation after he tested positive for steroids. Canseco spent a month in jail without bail.[32]

In May 2008, Canseco revealed that he had lost his house in Encino, California to foreclosure saying his two divorces had cost him $7 to $8 million each.[33]

On October 10, 2008, Canseco was detained by immigration officials at a San Diego border crossing as he tried to bring a fertility drug from Mexico. He stated the drug was to help with his hormone replacement therapy, needed due to his use of steroids.[34] On November 4, 2008, Canseco pled guilty in federal court and was sentenced to 12 months’ unsupervised probation by U.S. Magistrate Judge Ruben B. Brooks.[35]

   22. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: February 05, 2012 at 02:04 PM (#4053890)
he “hides behind” agent Scott Boras’ representatives to dodge discussing his family; and he shows no appreciation for those who helped him along the way.

What do you want Prince to say, Cecil? "I'd like to thank my dad for teaching me that just because you're a father doesn't mean that you can't be an untrustworthy dick"?
   23. tigertears Posted: February 05, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4053892)
I stand corrected on Canseco. Perhaps not sociopath, but more than the selfish blowhard that I recalled.
   24. willcarrolldoesnotsuk Posted: February 05, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4053893)
Obviously stuff like hitting his wife is scummy, but I'm not sure why I'm supposed to care that he missed a court date, or that he lost his house, or that he's on or trying to be on wacky drugs.
   25. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 05, 2012 at 02:28 PM (#4053896)
Didn't Cecil steal Prince's signing bonus to feed his gambling habit?


Cecil acted as Prince's agent when he was drafted and negotiated that bonus. He reportedly took $200,000 of the $2.4M and Prince (again reportedly) "considers this money stolen." But my cursory googling didn't turn up anything to support the contention that Cecil took the whole thing.

Cecil has a gambling addiction and he let it wreck his marriage and his relationship with his kids, but accusing him of stealing $2.4M is a pretty serious allegation that shouldn't be taken as fact without a bit more evidence.
   26. cardsfanboy Posted: February 05, 2012 at 02:53 PM (#4053900)
If my father named me Cutter, I'd kick his ass as soon as I was old enough.


I'm guessing you never read Elfquest. The only good elves in fictional existence.
   27. Ephus Posted: February 05, 2012 at 03:41 PM (#4053914)
Cecil Fielder to the police: You can question me as much as you want, but I will never tell you that my accomplice hid the money under the porch the house on the southeast corner of the 3000 block of Howard Avenue in Baltimore.
   28. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 05, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4053918)
Cecil apparently learned from my four year old. When he get mad, he gives us the "silent treatment", then spends the next hour telling us he is giving us the silent treatment.
   29. Tripon Posted: February 05, 2012 at 04:02 PM (#4053921)
$200,000 out of $2.4 million is 8.333%, which is higher than the usual agent fee. (Ranging from 2% to 5%). I'd be mad too since if Prince hired a real agent (like Scott Boras), he would have kept more of his bonus.
   30. Justin 'The Cespedobear' T Posted: February 05, 2012 at 04:11 PM (#4053925)
Screw Cecil, but it is unfortunate that Prince is unable or unwilling to have a relationship with his grandparents on that side. Lots of unknowns there, whether they are also culpable in anything or whether Cecil interferes, etc.

But if they are purely collateral damage, that sucks.
   31. Der_K is feeling better now. Posted: February 05, 2012 at 06:17 PM (#4053953)
Canseco also has been accused of bait and switches w his twin Ozzie on multiple occasions - including on the field this past season.
   32. What did Billy Ripken have against Elroy Face? Posted: February 05, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4053960)
“We all knew the kid was obese. He had a hard time running to first base without getting tired. You don’t transform your body by yourself,


And indeed, Prince didn't.

“I’m going to take the high road, stay away from it and not cause any friction.


I'm not quite sure you know what these words mean.
   33. Something Other Posted: February 05, 2012 at 06:49 PM (#4053969)
What a shame. Sounds like the only thing with any kind of chance at changing things is a private note from father to son admitting all wrongdoing, sincerely apologizing, letting him know that if he ever wants to get in touch Cecil would be receptive to any form of contact, then shutting up about it for however many years it takes to see if Prince wants to have anything to do with him.

“I’m going to take the high road, stay away from it and not cause any friction.

I'm not quite sure you know what these words mean.
Yeah, that's just unreal. Really unreal. "I'm going to criticize you because I think you're selfish in oh, this many ways, including ignoring your dear sweet innocent grandparents--in public--I mean, what's wrong with you, you ungrateful punk? If you want me I'll be up here, on this high road".

If that's the high road, what's the low road?


   34. Walt Davis Posted: February 05, 2012 at 06:54 PM (#4053971)
I generally agree with the comments against Cecil in this thread and I'm not sure I believe him when he said the below but, if he did mean it, I'll give him a smidgen of credit (emphasis added):

I think those people he needs to reach out to other than me, I think hopefully he will.”

Cecil's right there. If Prince is letting his fractured relationship with his father ruin his relationship with his grandparents (and aunts, uncles, etc), then Prince is making a mistake.*

*Obviously Prince may have valid non-Cecil reasons not to want anything to do with the rest of the extended family too.
   35. Walt Davis Posted: February 05, 2012 at 06:57 PM (#4053972)
How on earth does Cecil get the media's ear so often? With so many dysfunctional families, why do we hear about his? This is a mystery to me.

It's far less mysterious than why we get to hear Denny McLain's thoughts on Brandon Inge.

McLain ... Cecil ... maybe a 1-year moratorium on Tiger alums opening their mouths.
   36. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: February 05, 2012 at 07:00 PM (#4053973)
I'd be mad too since if Prince hired a real agent (like Scott Boras), he would have kept more of his bonus.


And maybe it would have been a bigger bonus that he was keeping more of. But FWIW the story goes that lots of baseball lifers thought Cecil did well to get that much for his kid.

Sounds like the only thing with any kind of chance at changing things...


Things are supposedly changing. Father and son have reportedly actually conversed lately. Don't know whether that private note was ever passed.

If that's the high road, what's the low road?


Isn't it just a couple of paragraphs up where he calls his own kid a fattie?
   37. Something Other Posted: February 05, 2012 at 07:04 PM (#4053974)
@34: Well, sure, maybe. And maybe not. An ex-girlfriend's dad had a second family and without exception they were nuts. There wasn't anything there to relate to, and to be drawn into anything with one of them was to be drawn in short order into something with all of them.

Not wrt you, Walt, but I've never quite gotten the "must try and try" wrt relating to sick people with whom we happen to share some DNA. It takes some work but it's not at all impossible to find or make a family other than the one we were born into, and being the result of choice it's often a family that's a lot healthier.

At any rate, it probably goes without saying that chastising your kid in public for not talking to his grandparents isn't going to convince him to talk to his grandparents.


"Things are supposedly changing. Father and son have reportedly actually conversed lately. Don't know whether that private note was ever passed." Well, this should put an end to that, eh?
   38. Esmailyn Gonzalez Sr. Posted: February 05, 2012 at 09:36 PM (#4054148)
maybe a 1-year moratorium on Tiger alums opening their mouths.

Milt Cuyler won't be happy about that!
   39. Dale Sams Posted: February 05, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4054155)
Canseco also has been accused of bait and switches w his twin Ozzie on multiple occasions - including on the field this past season.


If you sleep with a twin, thinking it's the other...is it rape?
   40. ray james Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:10 PM (#4054193)
f you sleep with a twin, thinking it's the other...is it rape?


Even identical twins aren't truly identical.
   41. Jim Wisinski Posted: February 05, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4054218)
$200,000 out of $2.4 million is 8.333%, which is higher than the usual agent fee. (Ranging from 2% to 5%). I'd be mad too since if Prince hired a real agent (like Scott Boras), he would have kept more of his bonus.


Plus there's a big difference between paying an agent and knowing what their fee is compared to thinking your father is negotiating for you because he's your dad and is trying to help you out.

We all knew the kid was obese. He had a hard time running to first base without getting tired. You don’t transform your body by yourself, you’ve got to have trainers, you’ve got to have people cooking for you, there’s a lot of things that go into that. …


You might ask why your son was obese in the first place.
   42. ray james Posted: February 05, 2012 at 11:14 PM (#4054309)
I'm reading the article and I just have to say that Cecil Fielder should be ashamed of himself. Regardless of the genesis of the alienation that occurred between he and his son, it's selfish and vulgar to try to politic about it in the press.

I know enough about parent/child relations to suspect that it is all Cecil's fault things are the way they are right now. Children will cut their parents all kinds of slack, because they love their parents unconditionally. For Prince to freeze his father out like this, I have to believe he has a damn good reason to do so. Cecil should be the one doing the mea culpa, and demonstrating maturity. Instead, it seems like he's acting just like the spoiled addict he is, trying to get close to Prince again so he can get some of the big payday.

If Cecil seriously wants a rapproachment with Prince, he should send him a private letter, recounting all of his transgressions, ask for forgiveness, ask Prince how he can begin to make amends, and ask for nothing else.
   43. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: February 05, 2012 at 11:35 PM (#4054319)
I don't know whether or not Prince has a legit beef with his dad and/or family or not. Whether he does or not really isn't our business. What is a bit appalling is that Cecil has decided to make it a public issue. AFAIK, Prince never brings it up publicly.
   44. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:39 AM (#4054396)
McLain ... Cecil ... maybe a 1-year moratorium on Tiger alums opening their mouths.

But then we'll never know what this has to do with Frank Tanana!
   45. Chicago Joe Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:22 AM (#4054397)
If my father named me Cutter, I'd kick his ass as soon as I was old enough.


Upside: Lenny misspelled "Quatar".
Downside: Lenny misspelled "Catarrh".

If you sleep with a twin, thinking it's the other...is it rape?


How drunk were you?
   46. Old Man James Posted: February 06, 2012 at 09:46 AM (#4054429)
I don't know whether or not Prince has a legit beef with his dad and/or family or not. Whether he does or not really isn't our business.


Yea, Cecil may have had a perfectly good reason to publicly beat his pre teen daughter.
   47. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:00 AM (#4054432)
I know enough about parent/child relations to suspect that it is all Cecil's fault things are the way they are right now. Children will cut their parents all kinds of slack, because they love their parents unconditionally.

I suspect you're right about this case (Cecil seems like an ass) but I call BS on the generality.

In my experience, it's the parents who unconditionally love, and let their kids take all kinds of advantage of them. A lot of people treat their parents like ####, and of course, they can come up with all kinds of grievances from their childhood to justify it.
   48. Don't want the truth; just wanna see some dingers Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:18 AM (#4054444)
On February 10, 1989, Canseco was arrested for reckless driving after allegedly leading an officer on a 15-mile chase. He was found guilty and fined $500.[24]


To be fair, that's not that much more money (and a hell of a lot more fun) than a day at the Richard Petty Driving Experience.
   49. Alex Vila Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:28 AM (#4054451)
Even identical twins aren't truly identical.

Ozzie couldn't hit a curveball if his life depended on it.
   50. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4054455)
Apologies for dropping this unrelated request in here, but....

Can someone with knowledge of the Batter vs Hitter function on baseballreference run a search for me?

I was at a charity dinner on Friday night and Steve Sax, one of the speakers, mentioned that in his first at-bat against Roger Clemens, he hit a home run. He also mentioned that it was at Wrigley Field.

No one at our table could come up with a set of circumstances that made this possible, given that Clemens and Sax didn't play in the NL at the same time and neither played for the Cubs.

I thought it might have happened in an All-Star game, but nope.

Other nuggets from Sax:

- Keith Hernandez was a "grimy dude" who would slit his mother's throat for a base hit.
- Bill Buckner was also willing to commit matricide for a single.
- Obama's got it all wrong
- Josh Hamilton and Dustin Pedroia are two players Steve would pay to watch
- Wrigley Field was Steve's fave place to play

Sorry for the threadjack . . .
   51. bunyon Posted: February 06, 2012 at 10:42 AM (#4054458)
Make room on the rocket to Neptune Fay, Pete, Canseco and Sandy. Cecil needs to go away too. Make lots of room.

Geez, we're going to need another couple of engines.
   52. base ball chick Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:25 AM (#4054493)
harmon

only time i can find that sax could possibly have faced clemens at wrigley is the 1990 all star game and clemens didn't pitch, according to the box score

of course, i am not real too good at running that pitcher vs hitter thingy
   53. SoSH U at work Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:28 AM (#4054497)
I was at a charity dinner on Friday night and Steve Sax, one of the speakers, mentioned that in his first at-bat against Roger Clemens, he hit a home run. He also mentioned that it was at Wrigley Field.


Sax singled off Clemens at Yankee Stadium in their first non-spring training meeting, in 1989.

Sax and Clemens were all-star teammates at Wrigley Field in 1990, the only time they would have been there at the same time in a playing capacity. Even then, Clemens didn't pitch.

   54. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:29 AM (#4054498)
Harmon - Is the old Los Angeles Wrigley Field still standing? Could the Dodgers and Red Sox have played an exhibition game at that site?

EDIT: One other thought, did the early-90s White Sox play any home games at Wrigley for some reason? New Comiskey opened around then, was there a time where the park wasn't ready?
   55. SoSH U at work Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:32 AM (#4054501)
EDIT: One other thought, did the early-90s White Sox play any home games at Wrigley for some reason? New Comiskey opened around then, was there a time where the park wasn't ready?


Sax had already faced Clemens for the first time before old Comiskey closed. And new Comiskey was already open by the time Sax played for Chicago.

   56. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:33 AM (#4054502)
- Keith Hernandez was a "grimy dude" who would slit his mother's throat for a base hit.
- Bill Buckner was also willing to commit matricide for a single.


Neither of those things surprises me in the least.
   57. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4054506)
If my father named me Cutter, I'd kick his ass as soon as I was old enough.


His actual first name is Cutter. I don't believe it. Not as bad as a friend of a friend naming his kid Aragorn, though.

Yea, Cecil may have had a perfectly good reason to publicly beat his pre teen daughter.


No mention of this on wikipedia or a cursory web search. Link?
   58. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:36 AM (#4054508)
Sax had already faced Clemens for the first time before old Comiskey closed.



Look, if you're going to let your fancy "facts" get in the way we're going to have a problem.

I would say that Sax is mixing up some facts and getting his ancient ballparks wrong. He DID homer in his first at bat against Clemens at Fenway (not his first AB against him overall). It was only his second game against Clemens and maybe he just misspoke and said "Wrigley" where he meant "Fenway." (all per BBRef - all hail Sean!)
   59. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4054509)
What is a bit appalling is that Cecil has decided to make it a public issue. AFAIK, Prince never brings it up publicly.

"Appalling" is a hysterical stretch, based on the assumption that major league baseball players have some kind of fundamental right to never be publicly-questioned about their performance in real life. (*) It's been noted before, but practically every one of these episodes intimating that a player is a cad brings out a parade of fanboys ripping everyone but the player. It sounds like Prince is an ungrateful dick (**), and his father's trying to make him something better.

(*) Other than if they drive drunk, wherein the chorus mutates from fanboy to harpie.

(**) And no, Prince has no "right" to keep his private dickishness private. It matters not that he hasn't "brought it up" publicly (even though he has in fact commented publicly on Cecil.)
   60. SoSH U at work Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:44 AM (#4054517)
I would say that Sax is mixing up some facts and getting his ancient ballparks wrong. He DID homer in his first at bat against Clemens at Fenway (not his first AB against him overall). It was only his second game against Clemens and maybe he just misspoke and said "Wrigley" where he meant "Fenway." (all per BBRef - all hail Sean!)


That sounds like the most logical explanation.
   61. Swedish Chef Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:46 AM (#4054519)
Not as bad as a friend of a friend naming his kid Aragorn, though.

According to Sweden's statistics bureau, five people here are named Sauron. They can only wish their parents went with Aragorn*.

*) Oh right, we have a whooping 47 Aragorns around.
   62. base ball chick Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4054529)
sugar bear

the reason you DEMAND prince have a public catfight with his father instead of saying - no comment - is like, what? it is good for prince, his wife/kids, his team/teammates like HOW?

there's an old expression about not getting into wrestling matches with pigs in the pigpen because all you get is convered with mud and the pig LIKES it.
   63. Old Man James Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:55 AM (#4054533)
Yea, Cecil may have had a perfectly good reason to publicly beat his pre teen daughter.


No mention of this on wikipedia or a cursory web search. Link?


I've been looking all morning. I seem to remember this from the most in depth article I had seen of Prince's views on the subject. It was from a few years ago. All my searches are getting swamped by the coverage of the signing. I'd consider it libel at this point.
   64. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: February 06, 2012 at 11:58 AM (#4054538)
Two people engage in a dispute, one of them talks about it endlessly with minimal specifics while the other simply chooses to remain silent on the matter. 99% of the time I am going to assume the one being silent is in the right. If Cecil were giving some more and verifiable details then I'd be more inclined to believe him. So far he hasn't done anything to convince me he is believable.
   65. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 12:03 PM (#4054542)
the reason you DEMAND prince have a public catfight with his father instead of saying - no comment - is like, what? it is good for prince, his wife/kids, his team/teammates like HOW?

No demand, merely noting that Cecil has every right to try to improve his son by communicating with him through the papers. If the son is staying away from his family, and the father thinks that's wrong, and has access to another method of communicating his displeasure with the son ... there's no reason he can't avail himself of that method of communication.

   66. Something Other Posted: February 06, 2012 at 12:29 PM (#4054572)
No demand, merely noting that Cecil has every right to try to improve his son by communicating with him through the papers.
This is in a several way tie for first place in the category of 'funniest things I've read on this site'. Well done.
   67. Ron J Posted: February 06, 2012 at 12:34 PM (#4054580)
BBC, a couple of other saying to consider: "Consider the source" and "Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."
   68. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4054591)
This is in a several way tie for first place in the category of 'funniest things I've read on this site'. Well done.

As opposed to this nugget of measured brilliance:

Not wrt you, Walt, but I've never quite gotten the "must try and try" wrt relating to sick people with whom we happen to share some DNA.

In other words, Cecil Fielder, a person you don't know in the slightest, is "sick."

Love how you've converted your celebrity-watching "skills" into a self-styled role as the High Priest of Fanboy. Well played.


   69. The District Attorney Posted: February 06, 2012 at 01:02 PM (#4054620)
I heard some guy got killed in New York City and they never solved the case. But Keith Hernandez wouldn't know anything about that, would he?
   70. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: February 06, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4054641)
Thanks, all.

69: I spent the whole evening resisting the urge to say: "You just don't know when to keep your mouth shut, do you Saxy boy?" Steve was a little high-strung, however, and after a couple of attendees somewhat rudely mentioned his throwing ailment, I opted to zip my lip for fear of being the recipient of one of Steve Sax' attax.
   71. base ball chick Posted: February 06, 2012 at 01:23 PM (#4054647)
sugar bear

"IMPROVE" his son?

you are, as the laaars allus say, assuming a fact not in evidence.

we know that cecil is ACCUSING his son of something. IF what he says is true, prince just might could have a very good reason for his actions. you don't know what went down and prince has every right to refuse to respond to accusations, just as you would if i demanded to know publically if it is true what i heard tell that you FINALLY stopped beating on your wife. that is, if you were a Public Figure and I was practically immune to slander/libel.

people are NOT obligated to forgive those who trespass against them ONLY because they have shared DNA. and they sure as heck are not obligated to have to do it to the media.
   72. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 01:36 PM (#4054665)
"IMPROVE" his son?

you are, as the laaars allus say, assuming a fact not in evidence


Here's what Cecil said:

"As a father, of course you're proud of what your son's been able to accomplish on the field," Cecil Fielder, 48, said. "But as a father also you worry about how he is growing as a man, how — I want to say this correctly — how he is communicating with everybody that had something to do with how he got to where he is. And that part of my son, I think we're all a little disappointed."

That strikes me as an entirely plausible and sober and honest public comment by a 48-year-old father who pretty clearly loves and misses his headstrong and proud and accomplished son. I say that as one who's been (well, is) a 48-year-old father and a headstrong and proud 27-year-old sone whose family wasn't exactly his first priority. If I've lucked into the 2012 Ogre of the Year Award for thinking that, I guess those are the breaks.

people are NOT obligated to forgive those who trespass against them ONLY because they have shared DNA. and they sure as heck are not obligated to have to do it to the media.

I never said Prince Fielder had to do anything, merely that he isn't immune from public criticism just because he's a major league baseball player. His father got on his case a little bit about being a better man; it's not as though he went all King Lear on him or something.
   73. base ball chick Posted: February 06, 2012 at 01:47 PM (#4054686)
sugar

the statetment is plausible. the statement that i had groupie sex with baseball player X is plausible. the statement that i think jim crane's "ideas" for the astros are great is plausible.

strike that last one. and the one before that too.

anyhow,
where was i?

there are lots of ungrateful kids. there are lots of parents who made their kids miserable. there are a lot of kids who betray parents, parents who betray kids. there are a lot of kids who steal from/use parents. there are a lot of parents who steal from/use kids.

we've both seen it both ways. and i'm sorry about any sort of trouble between you and your own kid.

but fact is that don't neither of us actually KNOW everything that went into prince cutting his father off. or his grandparents off, if he did. we don't know, you might could say, the scorecard of for/against in the father/son relation.

people have a lot of stupid grievances - my parents wouldn't give me X. my kid wouldn't do/be X.

but sometimes, there are very VERY good reasons to cut off someone who is your blood.

and no one is immune to criticism because he/she is an X. question is - is there ACTUALLY something to criticize?
   74. JPWF1313 Posted: February 06, 2012 at 01:55 PM (#4054692)
That strikes me as an entirely plausible and sober and honest public comment by a 48-year-old father who pretty clearly loves and misses his headstrong and proud and accomplished son.


You REALLY need to read up on Cecil Fielder

   75. Old Man James Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:29 PM (#4054731)
That strikes me as an entirely plausible and sober and honest public comment by a 48-year-old father who pretty clearly loves and misses his headstrong and proud and accomplished son.


And what about the part where he called him a fatty?
   76. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:43 PM (#4054752)
And what about the part where he called him a fatty?

What about it?
   77. base ball chick Posted: February 06, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4054768)
76. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 01:43 PM (#4054752)

And what about the part where he called him a fatty?


What about it?


sigh

you are too old to be that obtuse.

it is not a question of whether or not the statement is true. it is a question of whether or not HOW it was said and to WHOM it was said and WHEN it was said is something a "loving" father should say to or about his son.
   78. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4054777)
it is a question of whether or not HOW it was said and to WHOM it was said and WHEN it was said is something a "loving" father should say to or about his son.

There's no inconsistency between loving your adult son and using one of his shortcomings to make a broader point. It's no great mystery that Prince Fielder is fat.

Prince and Cecil Fielder do not have a rosy father-son relationship. That fact doesn't begin to suggest that Cecil Fielder doesn't love Prince Fielder.

The broader point, anyway, is that it appears that Prince Fielder is being a dick to his family writ larger -- not just Cecil Fielder -- and that Cecil Fielder and others in the family are disappointed by that. The things Cecil Fielder said in that regard ring entirely true and genuine. He's proud of his son's accomplishments -- which he said -- and thinks his son needs to grow as a man (and wants to see that happen.) Cecil Fielder showed maturity and wisdom and perspective in letting his son know there's more to being a well-rounded man than excelling on the baseball field.

That's a good lesson for a lot of people and is perfectly sensible.
   79. Walt Davis Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:39 PM (#4054821)
In other words, Cecil Fielder, a person you don't know in the slightest, is "sick."

I'm pretty sure that "sick" was with regard to the ill grandparents mentioned in the story since that was what I commented on.
   80. base ball chick Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4054824)
there is an inconsistancy between loving someone and saying "the truth" in a way that is hurtful and not helpful.

ESPECIALLY publically

saying to your son:
lissen boy, i KNOW from my own personal experience that the older and fatter you get, the harder it is to play at the major league level. i KNOW how hard it is and you're my blood and you got my self same problem and boy you have just GOT to work like a dog to keep the fat off IF you want to play, let alone not embarrass yourself and your team out there. don't make MY mistake

now THAT is actually trying to help your kid.

it doesn't mean that your kid will believe your or listen to you or not turn you off. your kid might could be like barry lamar bonds and do best under criticism, even cruel criticism, but the vast majority of people respond a lot better to encouragement than contempt
   81. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:49 PM (#4054828)
I'm pretty sure that "sick" was with regard to the ill grandparents mentioned in the story since that was what I commented on.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't, since they weren't mentioned either explictly or implicitly and Cecil was, but whatever. The writer knows even less about the grandparents than he does Cecil, so getting all snarky about obligations to the grandparents is even more fanboyish.
   82. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4054831)
there is an inconsistancy between loving someone and saying "the truth" in a way that is hurtful and not helpful.

ESPECIALLY publically


None of us knows either of the two parties enough to conclude that the statement was hurtful and not helpful (and maybe it was just an example of a broader point). We know they're competitive and talented (and likely stubborn), and not much more than that.
   83. Srul Itza Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4054832)
The broader point, anyway, is that it appears that Prince Fielder is being a dick to his family writ larger -- not just Cecil Fielder -- and that Cecil Fielder and others in the family are disappointed by that.


The only source you have for any of that is Cecil Fielder.

While complaining that everybody else is jumping on Prince's side, you are accepting everything that Cecil says as gospel.

The only facts that appear to be corroborated are those which are detrimental to Cecil, including the gambling problem evidenced by the casino lawsuit against him and the reports that he lost just about everything that way. Given my personal experience with compulsive gamblers, I have little reason to give Cecil the benefit of the doubt.

But since you're just trolling anyyay, go right ahead.
   84. Something Other Posted: February 06, 2012 at 03:54 PM (#4054834)
Not wrt you, Walt, but I've never quite gotten the "must try and try" wrt relating to sick people with whom we happen to share some DNA.

In other words, Cecil Fielder, a person you don't know in the slightest, is "sick."
Must be nice to be able to read into things exactly what you want to see. I was, of course, speaking broadly. We've had at least one other thread on the subject of dealing with emotionally sick family memebers. If I had meant Cecil, I would have said so. That said, Cecil's a pretty sorry character. Why you're bent on defending his bizarre behavior is, at the least, odd.

But, since you heartily approve of this kind of thing, and in the spirit of publicly airing grievances and chastising people, I can only hope the wire services pick up the following:

Clearly, SugarBear Blanks should work diligently towards becoming a more compassionate poster. His resentful attitude here and in Jack Morris threads hurts us all, and seriously damages the intellectual integrity and reputation of this website site.

Come to think of it, stealing your kid's money, hitting your child, then insulting your kid in print under the guise of 'encouraging him to be a better man'? If you have testicles, that's an insult. Yeah, now that you've brought it to my attention that's sick behavior.
   85. Something Other Posted: February 06, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4054843)
there is an inconsistancy between loving someone and saying "the truth" in a way that is hurtful and not helpful.

ESPECIALLY publically


None of us knows either of the two parties enough to conclude that the statement was hurtful and not helpful (and maybe it was just an example of a broader point). We know they're competitive and talented (and likely stubborn), and not much more than that.
More hilarity. So, you're assuming Cecil's telling the truth and Prince has severe shortcomings even as you try to belittle people who are not making those assumptions because... I know! You're a mindreader!

Problem solved. We can all go home now.

(By the way, you're the first person I've ever actually heard of who believes that critiquing a family member through the press is a solid relationship tool. Ever.)

   86. Double-Spin Mechanic Posted: February 06, 2012 at 04:20 PM (#4054862)
He's proud of his son's accomplishments -- which he said -- and thinks his son needs to grow as a man (and wants to see that happen.)


Why is it wrong for Prince to have learned from experience that Cecil has nothing whatsoever to teach him about "being a man".
   87. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 04:27 PM (#4054863)
Must be nice to be able to read into things exactly what you want to see. I was, of course, speaking broadly. We've had at least one other thread on the subject of dealing with emotionally sick family memebers. If I had meant Cecil, I would have said so. That said, Cecil's a pretty sorry character. Why you're bent on defending his bizarre behavior is, at the least, odd.

You're the one "reading into things." I'm simply reading the words the man said. I'm not interested in a Entertainment Tonight debate about who the "better person" is, particlarly when it inevitably devolves into fanboyish crushes.

Clearly, SugarBear Blanks should work diligently towards becoming a more compassionate poster. His resentful attitude here and in Jack Morris threads hurts us all, and seriously damages the intellectual integrity and reputation of this website site.

It's just the internet and all, but you seem to have quite a grandiose opinion of your insights and rectitude.
   88. Double-Spin Mechanic Posted: February 06, 2012 at 04:33 PM (#4054866)
It's just the internet and all, but you seem to have quite a grandiose opinion of your insights and rectitude.


Yes, Virginia. SB said this. About someone else!
   89. jingoist Posted: February 06, 2012 at 04:59 PM (#4054890)
SugarBear; you strike me as the kind of guy who never questions authority if that authority is sanctioned by a superior position within society or presented under the cover of patriotism.
I'll bet you and Dick Cheney are still looking for WMD and yellowcake in Iraq.

Based upon the article and resoned comments from the assembled posters no right thinking person could ever think prince was the reasoned moral authority and that his recalcitrant son "deserved" to be scolded in public.

I surely hope you never father a child; woe be unto he or she if you do
   90. Old Man James Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:00 PM (#4054892)
That strikes me as an entirely plausible and sober and honest public comment by a 48-year-old father who pretty clearly loves and misses his headstrong and proud and accomplished son.


Actually right there you openly say you are reading into things. Does he pretty clearly love and miss his son? Because he didn't actually say that. I think it is at least equally clear he loves and misses attention and money.
   91. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:08 PM (#4054903)
SugarBear; you strike me as the kind of guy who never questions authority if that authority is sanctioned by a superior position within society or presented under the cover of patriotism.
I'll bet you and Dick Cheney are still looking for WMD and yellowcake in Iraq.

Based upon the article and resoned comments from the assembled posters no right thinking person could ever think prince was the reasoned moral authority and that his recalcitrant son "deserved" to be scolded in public.


Off by a million miles.

I surely hope you never father a child; woe be unto he or she if you do

Already have, thank you. I'll pass your good wishes along to him.

Actually right there you openly say you are reading into things. Does he pretty clearly love and miss his son? Because he didn't actually say that. I think it is at least equally clear he loves and misses attention and money.

Yeah, because since the time the divorce blew up in 2004 and Prince signing with the Tigers in 2012, whenever you heard the name Prince Fielder, Cecil Fielder was right there running his mouth in the papers. Every single time. Amazing.

And you're right, it's such a stretch to imagine a father loving his son. That was a real reach, that was.

   92. Old Man James Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:22 PM (#4054915)
And you're right, it's such a stretch to imagine a father loving his son. That was a real reach, that was.



So your rebuttal to my "you are reading into things just as much as anyone else" is "No, you are so wrong I AM reading into things" ??

I just want to be clear.
   93. JPWF1313 Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4054919)
The broader point, anyway, is that it appears that Prince Fielder is being a dick to his family writ larger -- not just Cecil Fielder -- and that Cecil Fielder and others in the family are disappointed by that.


The broader point is that based upon all that has been written and reported regarding Cecil Fielder, and with respect to Cecil Fielder and his relationship with his son is that it "appears" that Cecil Fielder is a low life scumbag who very well may be a sociopath.

Simply coming here an posting that it "appears" that Cecil is good father and it "appears" that Prince is in the wrong, makes it "appear" that you are:

1: privy to knowlege that absolutely no one else else; or
2: ignorant; or
3: trolling; or
4: someone who has a very bizarre take on interpersonal dynamics
   94. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:25 PM (#4054920)

So your rebuttal to my "you are reading into things just as much as anyone else" is "No, you are so wrong I AM reading into things" ??


My rebuttal is that comparing my "reading in" with Entertainment Tonight, fanboyish readings in, is idiotic.

Clear enough?
   95. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:35 PM (#4054930)
The broader point is that based upon all that has been written and reported regarding Cecil Fielder, and with respect to Cecil Fielder and his relationship with his son is that it "appears" that Cecil Fielder is a low life scumbag who very well may be a sociopath.

There's actually been very little written about Cecil Fielder or his relationship with his son. There was some when Cecil's divorce blew up in 2004 and Cecil's gambling and money management deficiencies came to light, and some in the couple weeks since Prince signed with the Tigers. No one really cared between 2004 and 2012, though a Google search shows that Prince got a bit prickly in 2007 about wanting to hit 52 HRs to beat Cecil's 51 -- and good for him -- and a story here and there when Cecil's libel suit was dismissed by the Michigan (?) Court of Appeals.

"Scumbag" and "sociopath" are mean and excessive words, bordering on hysterical. They aren't the markers of an objective or humane observer.
   96. Old Man James Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:38 PM (#4054932)
Clear as glass. Your strained relationship with your son is preventing you from having any sort of objectivity on this subject and you are now reduced to ad hominem attacks.
   97. SugarBear Blanks Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:43 PM (#4054935)
Clear as glass. Your strained relationship with your son is preventing you from having any sort of objectivity on this subject and you are now reduced to ad hominem attacks.

Yes, my "strained relationship" with my ... 7 year old son has driven me to come to this website and point out fanboyism.

I mean, I never come here, and I never call out fanboys. So it must be the "strained relationship."

Clear as glass.
   98. Old Man James Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4054945)
I mean, I never come here, and I never call out fanboys.


Troll you mean?

Who is the fanboy exactly? I don't get the impression anyone here could give a #### for Cecil or Prince. It looks more like a bunch of people watching a car wreck and commenting on who is at fault.
   99. Greg (U)K Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:54 PM (#4054947)
No one really cared between 2004 and 2012,

Is this referring to the mainstream media or BTF? Because it's seemed like there's been threads on Cecil Fielder being a bad father on a nearly monthly basis for years. I recall Cecil bringing up the issue when he was a guest on a Jays broadcast 3-4 years ago too.
   100. Greg (U)K Posted: February 06, 2012 at 05:59 PM (#4054954)
Who is the fanboy exactly? I don't get the impression anyone here could give a #### for Cecil or Prince. It looks more like a bunch of people watching a car wreck and commenting on who is at fault.

"Fanboy" probably isn't the right term. I'd imagine the people attacking Cecil in this thread weren't also claiming Prince's contract was a great deal for Detroit, or defending him against snide fatso remarks from various BTF humorists. In other words, I don't think there is a Prince Fielder fan club on BTF.

I'd say it's more an example of the Lenny Dykstra factor. Noting inspires snark like an player or ex-player falling on hard times (allegedly?) due to his own flaws.

(I say allegedly because I don't know enough about Cecil Fielder to say for sure)
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