New York lost its sixth straight, one shy of its longest skid this season, and finished 1-8 on the penultimate homestand of the year. The sluggish Mets (71-79) managed five runs in the four-game series and were outscored 48-26 on the homestand.
Moments after the latest loss, Collins said he was “disgusted” with how his team has been playing and took the blame for the poor performance.
“The perception I have right now: We folded it up. And I won’t stand for that,” he said. “You want to see me be intense? You guys are going to see it. I don’t play that game.”
...As a tight game turned into a rout in the late innings Thursday, third baseman David Wright committed his sixth error in six games and eighth in the last 10 before a sparse crowd of 22,205 on a dreary afternoon.
“Our fans should be upset. I don’t blame them a bit,” said Collins, in his first season as Mets manager. “No energy, none at all, on the field. This is not the way we played all year long.”
...“We know that we’re playing bad. We don’t need anybody to tell us that we’re playing bad,” Wright said. “I think that we’ve played decent on the road, but at home we’ve choked.”
Repoz
Posted: September 16, 2011 at 09:43 AM |
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1. Joey B. has ignited his October #Natitude Posted: September 16, 2011 at 01:19 PM (#3926766)But at least this season nobody in their right mind expected the Mets to do anything, so it's not too much of a real "choke".
Which is a direct reflection of the manager. As a leader of men, Collins failed. Getting red as after the team quit on you isn't goign to bring them back in New York anymore than it did in Anaheim.
And perhaps Wright is hurt, instead of jaking it?
Hey now, this is a great crowd for the Rays when they host the Red Sox for a close September pennant race!
Disappointing? They were expected to stink, and they do in fact stink. They don't even stink that bad, they're not in last place.
Hyperbole aside, not every manger would go red ass after the cliche meltdown. While many managers would blow up after a loss like that, far less would follow that with the petty, vindicative behavior that Collisn infamous for. Collins was begat from the Ossie Vitt cloth of managing. He throws players under the bus to cover his shortcomings as a manager faster than Jim Tracy, then never lets ups with his snide remarks.
EDIT: Well, I suppose it's unfair to say that without knowing what offers were on the table -- teams in this era are very reluctant to trade Grade A prospects -- but didn't Alderson basically announce weeks before the trade deadline that Reyes would not be traded?
If they don't resign him.
It looks that way but I think Alderson was in a real tough spot at the time. It looked like Einhorn was going to provide the team some capital and a whiff of long term stability so they may have been operating under the assumption the resources would be there to sign Reyes and add a few other parts. That looks more and more impossible now.
edit: coke to RB.
The only other time his teams had a winning record at the end of the year was in 1999, when he was fired by the Angels and replaced by Joe Maddon - the team ended the year 19-10.
Players tend to tume out tightly wrapped managers over the course of 162 games, and they certainly tune them out over a few seasons unless there has been a track record of success.
Joe Morgan on Collins after he was fired from the Astros:
"Adversity is part of baseball; if a manager can't cope with is his team will suffer. Terry Collins, the skipper of the Anaheim Angels learned this lesson when he was with Houston. The Astros were a talented team when Collins was there (1994-96). They finished second three times, but failed to make the playoffs because their manager exerted too much pressure on them. He was so uptight, his players thought each pitch was life-or-death. It wasn't anything Terry said; it was his demeanor. Collins was edgy in the dugout during games, always looking like someone who was just waiting for disaster to strike. At the moment anything actually went wrong you could smell the panic in him. Players picked up on that. To alleviate the tension the manger was bringing to the clubhouse, they put added pressure on themselves to perform well, which invariably choked off their natural abilities so that they can't play their best."
Collins tenure in Anaheim ended with open war in the clubhouse.
The Phillies, Atlanta, SF could all use upgrades at SS.
But Rollins contract is up after this year and he's four years older than Reyes.
I was thinking that, but Aybar doesn't become a FA until after 2012.
Also, the real story about the Mets isn't the fact that they've quit on their manager (perhaps they did, but they've played very hard for him for the most part), it's the fact that Terry Collins has turned into Bunty McBunterson.
Exactly what level prospect did they pass up on? Devin Mesoraco? Gary Brown? Frankly, i'll take the two picks over either of those guys.
I meant from his perspective, not ours.
Help me out here. I don't know anything about this other than he lost the clubhouse. Did someone go after him with a bat or something?
Percival and Mo Vaughn had a feud while the Angels' collapsed. Battle lines were drawn, factions chosen. It started when Percival blew an enourmous lead in Cleveland. Percival then threw at David Justice's head, and Justice beat Percival's head with his batting helmet, which caused the benched tho clear. However, despite Justice and Percival's antics, no one really wanted to fight besides Erstad, who just couldn't find a fracas partner. Mo Vaughn even didn't come out of the clubhouse (he was supposedly taking a ####). Rex Hudler began openly weeping on TV -- it was surreal.
Supposedly, on the flight back to California, something was said about Percival acting like a punk, and Collins snickered. On the first game of the homestand, Percival held court at his locker with reporters calling out Vaughn with Erstad chiming in (Vaughn hadn't arrived yet). The next day, Vaughn held his own court while Percival was present, physically challenging Percival to say what he had said to his face, then went into his now infamous "Count the hardware" speech. Percival didn't rise to Vaughn's challenges, which made some think he was indeed a punk. The two factions formed, the Angels continued their collapse, and Collins fanned the flames with each faction with snide remarks. Players from both sidespetitioned for Collins to be canned, and he was.
this thread is useless without video.
That's pretty much where I'm at now-- and Tejada has been a mixed bag (up and down, and sucked at AAA during his most recent stint there), which makes it an ever riskier and more complex decision-- if you don't sign Reyes, what's Plan A at SS in 2012 and beyond?
At least I can kiss the $20 I bet a pessimistic Met fan before the season goodbye without any more thought (they had been so close!).
Where's Sam M? 34 posts and no sign of him? Someone give him a call and make sure he's okay.
Eh -- kinda. He's a middling fielder with an OPS+ of 90 over the last three years, and he's 32 years old. If the Phils aren't in the market for an upgrade, they should be.
Collins' "meltdown" didn't seem to hurt tonight, as the Mets blew out the Braves. Maybe the man knows what he is doing.
Also, pedantic I know, but I would have preferred the headline: After 1-8 homestand, Collins says team has "folded it up." Still hard to parse but makes it a little more clear that he's saying they folded it up before not after than 1-8 homestand. Who wouldn't fold it up after a 1-8 homestand at this point of the season and in 4th place?
Knowing that lousy stathead Alderson, he ordered the team to suck so they could get a higher pick in the draft! Billy Beane never should have written that book about him.
I think Reyes' hamstring announced weeks before the deadline that he wouldn't be traded. (He was on the DL most of July.)
Ahhhh - the good old days! Thanks for the memories Bads...
Now whether or not it would be prudent to bring Reyes back is another story.
Now, they could devote a big chunk of that, I assume between $15-20 million, to Reyes but that would both not leave them with a lot of money to fill out the rest the of the roster and possibly tie up enough payroll that if the Wilpons haven't gotten themselves sorted out by next year, they would be in real danger of losing Wright. Maybe Reyes is going to get less than that (or they'll do some weird backloading deal) but I would put it at 10% or less.
Right. Are the Mets as a franchise worth more with Reyes signed or without? That's the question the Wilpons should ask themselves. And I think the answer depends on the contract.
As for the team "folding it up", it was a poor homestand but the team has been streaky all year. Given the injuries they suffered, they were outperforming expectations all season, and then the team traded away their best hitter and their closer. An occasional bad stretch should not be surprising, but I don't blame Collins for trying to motivate them.
It's not going to leave them a lot of money to fill out the rest of the roster, that is true. To which I would say
1) They do have a lot of guys who will be in the 1-3 service time, meaning they aren't making a lot of money. (I'll add a little more to this in a second).
2) I'm not sure there are a lot of guys out there the Mets could target other than Reyes to improve them substantially. Assuming they're not in for guys like Fielder and Pujols, which I think is safe to say, the FA class doesn't look too promising. So I'm not sure what they'd be giving up by giving Reyes say, $17 million a year.
3) I don't think Pagan and Pelfrey will get in the way of the Mets keeping Reyes. I agree that they'll probably go for around $10 million combined in arbitration, but if things get really tight with money, they don't have to keep those guys.
Like I said in 1, the Mets will have a ton of guys who will be playing for very cheap next year. Thole at catcher, Davis at first, whoever ends up playing second, Duda in RF. That's half of the starting 8, and they'll be making around $2 million combined. Niese is definitely going to be a member of the rotation next year, and maybe a guy like Gee as well. (Whoever the 5th guy is, he'll probably just be keeping the seat warm for Harvey anyway). Dickey is going to be making $4.25 million next year. The pen is always tough to predict, but they just re-signed Byrdk for next year. He made around $1 million this year, can't imagine he's making much more next year. Carrasco is on the hook for $1.2 million next year. (Sigh). Parnell, maybe Beato, or Josh Stinson or something as well in the pen. Not sure what the pen is going to look like, but if you assume a 7-8 man pen, I can't see them spending more than $5 million on it. And with a 5 man bench or so, I can't seem them spending more than $3-4 million there.
So if your every day 8 has the 4 minimum guys, plus Pagan at $5 million, Reyes at say 17, Wright at 15, and Bay at 16, that's about $55 million for the starting 8. Say the rotation is Johan, Niese, Dickey, Pelfrey, and Gee. That's about $35 million. That's $90 million. Bench and the pen has got to be $10 million combined at the absolute most, and likely less. So you could still have some wiggle room to perhaps sign another starter in place of Gee, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that team is likely to be a contender or anything. But I do think the Mets have enough cheap guys that they can swing Reyes at even around $20 million per year. And I'm not sure you want to get into the backloading game too much, because it does come back to bite you down the line, but Santana and Bay are both due to come off the books after 2013, so if you wanted to backload a potential Reyes contract you could do that.
All of this doesn't mean I think the Mets should pay Reyes $20 million a year, or 17, or whatever. Don't get me wrong. But I still think they can afford to do it.
And he's been having nagging injury problems, especially hamstrings. He's not a good bet to be healthy in any particular season moving forward.
I know he has a really short generic name and I'd never heard of him before he got the job. Tom Mills? Matt Lewis? Bob Willis?
Here's another challenge, match the Astros lineup from Saturday to their positions. Or even identify their first names. Aside from Lee, Barmes and Schafer, who are these people?
Schafer
Barmes
Martinez
Lee
Bogusevic
Downs
Paredes
Corporan
Sosa
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