I made the mistake of reading the comments of the ESPN story and was blasted by a giant wave of revisionism from the dregs of my fellow Sox fans. The new revisionist groupthink consists of pretending that they loved Francona all along and wanted him to stay and the owners are big meanies.

"Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in!"

I have to say I did not realize how disappointed I was that he wouldn't be there until I found out he would be there. I'm not sure that makes sense but when I read this bit of news I got very excited.

Apparently the backup plan was to leave a breadcrumb trail of percocet from Bristol to Fenway park.

Personally, I'm glad he decided to show up. Probably the best manager they've had in terms of handling the bullpen and the media.

The ESPN (and Boston Globe) comment sections make me appreciate all of you here at the Baseball Think Factory a lot more.

I'm glad he's decided to show up, although I wouldn't have blamed him one bit if he had held his ground.

I don't disagree with the Red Sox moving in a different direction and getting a new manager after the way things ended last season (I think there's definitely a shelf life on a all managers, and I thought the Yankees were right in parting ways with Torre when they did too). However, I hated the way he was treated by the ownership after he left. (I can't imagine that they weren't behind the Bob Hohler story).

I can't imagine that they weren't behind the Bob Hohler story

For you and others who believe this, what was their purpose in leaking this info? What were they to gain from all these story-planting machinations?

Well, what was anyone's purpose? Someone leaked it.

For you and others who believe this, what was their purpose in leaking this info? What were they to gain from all these story-planting machinations?

Same as with Manny Ramirez and everyone else. So that fans who might have been unhappy that the guy is no longer with the Red Sox have something to point to as a reason they should be glad he's gone.

So that fans who might have been unhappy that the guy is no longer with the Red Sox have something to point to as a reason they should be glad he's gone.

So we are to believe that they are so image-conscious, PR-savvy, and media-controlling that they do these things, but also so PR-tonedeaf, image-clumsy, and weak that they do these things at a time when extra reasons to change managers were not needed and in a way that makes everyone blame them?

As I said in another thread, they must be the stupidest evil-geniuses around if all they do is use their vast media-controlling powers to make themselves look bad.

All this plotting to pull the trick of making a fanbase that was irate at the players and calling for the head of the manager instead blame and resent its ownership and pine away for that very same manager?

Yaaaaay!

Hey, we can already tell they're among the stupider evil-geniuses from their choice of manager. And they obviously WANT to be PR-savvy and image-conscious and media-controlling. So their plan for clever propaganda leads them to do ham-fisted things sometimes!

Sanity prevails - great news - I hope Mark Bellhorn is there as well! I rate his homer in Game One over the Fisk one!

/ducks!

Maybe he changed his mind after watching the team continue to scuffle by getting blasted for 18 runsbecause he realized this might end up being pretty fun

I rate his homer in Game One over the Fisk one!

There's nothing wrong with that.

Makes you wonder how much they offered to Francona to attend?

Maybe he changed his mind after watching the team continue to scuffle by getting blasted for 18 runsbecause he realized this might end up being pretty fun

Perhaps a mob of crazed Red Sox fans will seize control of the dugout and "reinstate" Francona.

Sign me up.

For you and others who believe this, what was their purpose in leaking this info? What were they to gain from all these story-planting machinations?

Because it happens with this team all the time. Even if there wasn't a history of leaks to the media slamming players on their way out of town, it would still be suspicious. Tito is the lovable teflon manager who won two world series championships. If I remember right, there was already media people speculating that ownership was strongarming Tito out before the Hohler story came out. Tito had built up a lot of goodwill. I don't think it's unbelievable that ownership would try to take a shot at Tito on his way out.

Similarly, why did leaks come out about Manny on his way out? There was no reason to say stuff about Manny, since ownership was clearly in the right getting rid of Manny, but they still felt the need to let everyone know he was lazy and his teammates wanted him gone.

Someone leaked it.

I'm shocked to find out that someone would leak a story regarding a manager's use of (prescription) drugs. Don't they know you are only supposed to do that when it involves a player?

Five biggest positive crowd reactions Friday:


5. Bill Buckner
4. Carlton Fisk
3. Curt Schilling
2. Dave Roberts
1. Tito

Sanity prevails - great news - I hope Mark Bellhorn is there as well! I rate his homer in Game One over the Fisk one!

/ducks!

Don't duck! I'm with you!

People forget how knife-edge all 4 of those games were. Knowing after the fact that there were serious, serious doubts that Schilling could have gone in a potential Game 6, the fact that Wakefield would have pitched Game 5... Had they lost Game 1 they really could have been in serious trouble and looking at a Game 7 Pedro start to try to win that WS.

I'll always have a soft spot for Bellhorn.

Five biggest positive crowd reactions Friday:


5. Bill Buckner
4. Carlton Fisk
3. Curt Schilling
2. Dave Roberts
1. Tito

I would put Mike Lowell on that list and take Schilling off it. Tito and Roberts are pretty good bets as 1-2 unless Pesky is there.

People forget how knife-edge all 4 of those games were.

Not to diminish Bellhorn's work (I love that weird little dude), but I never felt any of that. I've never been more confident the Red Sox would win a series than I was when the 2004 World Series started. I know the Cards had a hell of a season, but I didn't think they could compete with the Sox. And, considering they never led, they really didn't.

Similarly, why did leaks come out about Manny on his way out? There was no reason to say stuff about Manny, since ownership was clearly in the right getting rid of Manny, but they still felt the need to let everyone know he was lazy and his teammates wanted him gone.

Perhaps the leaks that his teammates wanted him gone came from... his teammates?

The leaks about him shoving Jack McCormick in the clubhouse came from either Jack himself or other witnesses in the Houston visitors locker room.

The fight Manny and Youkilis got into in the dugout during a game was "leaked" (live) by NESN. Manny taking 3 straight strikes from Rivera with the game on the line was similarly "leaked", as was his cutting off a throw from CF, and his 2004 WS Game 1 acrobatics in LF, and the times he failed to run out grounders, etc.

The Red Sox FO surely leaked that they had MRIs done on both of his knees when he claimed he couldn't play, right before the trade deadline one year.

Manny leaked inside the Fenway scoreboard a few times.

All kinds of things, good and bad, were leaked about Manny throughout his tenure in Boston. That is to say, they were reported. While I've no doubt that the FO didn't just sit quietly when he was sent packing, so much of what was reported on Manny had so little to do with the front office, and so much of it occurred years before they unloaded him.

That home run by Bellhorn is one of the most exciting moments of baseball I have ever seen live. The first World Series game I attended and it had a dramatic 8th inning home run with the wind absolutely howling in from right to win it.

Even if there wasn't a history of leaks to the media slamming players on their way out of town, it would still be suspicious. Tito is the lovable teflon manager who won two world series championships. If I remember right, there was already media people speculating that ownership was strongarming Tito out before the Hohler story came out.

This is revisionist ... the public sentiment was against Tito before the story came out, and he had already lost his job.

I don't know who leaked it. Obviously. But whoever it was, with the nature of the charge and the timing, I'm pretty sure it was personal. Whoever leaked that story hates Francona's guts.

No idea if that narrows it down any.

Now Bob watson will have to come to make sure Terry is wearing regulation undergarments.

Now Bob watson will have to come to make sure Terry is wearing regulation undergarments.

As a former Red Sox player Watson should have received an invitation.

As a former Red Sox player Watson should have received an invitation.

Obviously John Henry is trying to divert public hatred towards Watson - we will soon see hit pieces from Henry's media puppets.

What, no George Mitchell invitation?

Really happy he's coming.

Sadly Dave Roberts is coaching with the Padres will not be in attendance.

I made the mistake of reading the comments of the ESPN story and was blasted by a giant wave of revisionism from the dregs of my fellow Sox fans. The new revisionist groupthink consists of pretending that they loved Francona all along and wanted him to stay and the owners are big meanies.

Actually, the vocal anti-Francona group think was a media driven event orchestrated by the ownership to get support for firing Tito. Plans to fire him began before the September collapse. Tito saw the handwriting on the wall when they did not pick up his option. There was a silent majority that supported Tito despite the media driven campaign against him.

Drinking beer and eating chicken had been going on for some time, it was leaked by the owners in the aftermath of the greatest collapse in Red Sox history. That collapse happened not because of Tito, but because ownership refused to allow Theo to spend money to get some pitching at the trading deadline. The owners then attempted to smear Tito with allegations of improper use of pain medication.

Took awhile for the average fan to get their head around what really happened. Once the emotions cooled off, fans realized that when you have Daisuke and Buchholz on the DL, and Lackey pitching through an elbow injury that needed TJ surgery, that someone other than Tito was to blame for pitching Wakefield, Weiland and Bedard (the one pickup Theo was allowed, cheap because he was coming off the DL). Beckett also sprained an ankle in September. Aceves in the pen pitched more innings than any starter except Lester.

Compounding the pitching woes, were Bards and Albers collapse, and Crawford and Reddick playing through wrist injuries that needed surgery, with Youk and JD on the DL. A-Gon suffered a power outage due to shoulder weakness following his participation in the HR Derby, and fellow participant Papi had an awful September.

Under other circumstances, Tito gets manager of the year award.

For you and others who believe this, what was their purpose in leaking this info?

Larry Lucchino gets to have an orgasm that doesn't involve killing a puppy and drinking its soul?

ptodd: what brand of tinfoil do you use for your hats? I find that Reynolds Wrap is the most comfortable, but the generic supermarket brand lets me hear the voices clearer.

That collapse happened not because of Tito, but because ownership refused to allow Theo to spend money to get some pitching at the trading deadline.

(my bold)

I can't imagine any reasonable Red Sox fan being too upset with Theo or Tito after the success they had together, but this is pretty crazy. Theo got to spend money. A lot if it.

For you and others who believe this, what was their purpose in leaking this info?

Larry Lucchino gets to have an orgasm that doesn't involve killing a puppy and drinking its soul?

I think he's numb to this now, and needs a whole litter of puppies from which to make a soul concentrate...