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Thursday, December 27, 2012

The 2013 Hall Of Fame Ballot Collecting Gizmo!

The 2013 HOF Ballot Collecting Gizmo!

Updated 1:55 ~ 194 Full Ballots ~ (33.9% of vote ~ based on last year)

70.1 - Biggio
60.3 - Piazza
59.8 - Raines
59.3 - Bagwell
59.3 - J. Morris
45.4 - Bonds
44.3 - Clemens
39.2 - Schilling
38.1 - L. Smith
37.6 - Trammell
35.6 - E. Martinez
20.1 - McGriff
18.6 - D. Murphy
16.5 - L. Walker
14.4 - McGwire
13.4 - S. Sosa
12.9 - Raffy
  8.8 - Mattingly
———————————
  3.1 - Lofton
  2.1 - Bernie Williams
  1.7 - P. Rose (goofy write-in’s)
  0.5 - D. Wells
  0.5 - J. Franco
  0.5 - S. Alomar Jr.
  0.5 - S. Green

Repoz Posted: December 27, 2012 at 01:08 PM | 832 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hof

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   701. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:24 PM (#4342957)
Does the character clause apply to managers?


Ha. I assume you're referring to LaRussa's propensity for the bottle. But...I can't say I've ever heard of any Veterans' Committee having moral conundrums regarding said clause.
   702. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4342965)
Whitaker won't be eligible until the 2016 (2017 Election Year) vote. Hopefully, Grich at least makes the player cut this time around, while Cox, Torre, LaRussa and Miller all get the necessary votes to usher them in and make it possible that this group can start electing players.


Quite right. I forgot about the 20 year "rule" for the Vets' Committee. I will be very interested to see if that Committee does go Ron Santo on Marvin Miller next year. I almost hope they don't vote him in, because I think it would be a little insulting. I'm still interested to see if they'll at some point elect Steinbrenner or Billy Martin. To me, Billy Martin was every bit as good a manager as Whitey Herzog.
   703. Don Malcolm Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:30 PM (#4342967)
But choosing to vote for any players, to make any sort of comparative evaluations in this environment, didn't seem particularly appropriate, either.

Such BS. If that's the rationale, don't vote. Don't penalize people because you don't have the capacity to evaluate them. Meta-moralizing is worse than moralizing.

And I will say it again--in an election where there is no percentage threshold, "none of the above" is perfectly fine. But there is too much potential havoc to come from allowing such "freedom of expression" in this structure. If you enter into a "professional society" with privileges, you can be made subject to specific rules and regulations...so, I repeat, this is not a "libertarian issue."

Thanks for the reminder about the nine chimps in 1988, SoSH U. This has the potential to be much larger than that, however, and given the climate, the issue needs to be addressed.

We'll just have to see how many blank ballots come in when we see the fully tally.

Gwynn vs. Yount: tons of black ink (and BA) have always attracted the old-school voters. The rest would have voted for him anyway. Chris already covered why Yount's percentage was so low in his HT essay. Gwynn crushes Yount on black ink (57 to 14) and on the Hall of Fame Monitor (279 to 132).
   704. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:31 PM (#4342968)

Ha. I assume you're referring to LaRussa's propensity for the bottle


I thought it was Bobby Cox and domestic abuse, but yea, the VC doesn't really care about off-the-field stuff so much.
   705. The District Attorney Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4342969)
Bill Simmons @BillSimmons

I don't even care who makes the Baseball Hall of Fame. That place stopped making sense 4-5 years ago. It's been ruined.
   706. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:32 PM (#4342971)
I thought it was Bobby Cox and domestic abuse, but yea, the VC doesn't really care about off-the-field stuff so much.


Totally forgot about that. Ironic since Joe Torre has that anti-domestic abuse foundation.
   707. SouthSideRyan Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:33 PM (#4342973)
Yeah, I just assumed it was because LaRussa is a miserable prick.
   708. JE (Jason) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:36 PM (#4342975)
Wow, Raines is now tied for second with Morris. That's encouraging.
   709. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4342979)
I'm not exactly sure what Simmons is referring to as ruining the HOF 4-5 years ago. His Boston guy Jim Rice getting elected, maybe? Simmons' opinion on the HOF is worthless, anyway, since baseball is at best the 3rd most important sport for him.
   710. Danny Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4342987)
Bill Simmons @BillSimmons

I don't even care who makes the Baseball Hall of Fame. That place stopped making sense 4-5 years ago. It's been ruined.

This is the Simmons who supported Rice, Morris, and John for the HOF while opposing Blyleven, Raines and Trammell?
   711. zonk Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4342996)
Who DOES make the HoF with a complete and ironclad application of the morals clause?

Maybe Honus Wagner and Jackie Robinson? I suppose Stan Musial can squeak in, too, if we distract Murray Chass long enough during balloting season.
   712. Ray (RDP) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:50 PM (#4342997)
This is the Simmons who supported Rice, Morris, and John for the HOF while opposing Blyleven, Raines and Trammell?


Well, perhaps he feels it's ruined because Morris and John haven't gotten in.
   713. SoSH U at work Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4343002)
Interestingly enough, 4-5 years ago is about the time I stopped caring about Bill Simmons opinion on anything.
   714. SavoyBG Posted: January 09, 2013 at 01:57 PM (#4343007)
The VC has outlived its usefulness. Anyone whose career ended before 1970 has been considered and reconsidered and given a fair hearing. If they want to look at the Dwight Evanses and Bobby Griches again, sure. But the Deacon Whites and Gil Hodges? What is the point of this?


The point is that Deacon White is CLEARLY a hall of famer, and so is Bill Dahlen, among a few others who are still not in.
   715. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:08 PM (#4343021)

Who DOES make the HoF with a complete and ironclad application of the morals clause?

Roberto Clemente has a pretty good case.
   716. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:14 PM (#4343026)
sure, dave, if you wanna make a peak-only argument.
   717. bachslunch Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4343030)
I remember Buster Olney suggesting once that some of these guys should have to wear their shame on their plaques.

I've been to the International Swimming Hall of Fame in Ft. Lauderdale, and they do this. There are several East German swimmers enshrined, many of them having large PED disclaimers at the bottom of their...well, there are no actual plaques at this Hall. They have large poster-style flip displays you can comb through instead, one for each inductee.
   718. bachslunch Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4343041)
Anyone whose career ended before 1970 has been considered and reconsidered and given a fair hearing. If they want to look at the Dwight Evanses and Bobby Griches again, sure. But the Deacon Whites and Gil Hodges? What is the point of this?

Personally, I think White was a good and long-overdue HoF choice -- and until they elect Bill Dahlen, Indian Bob Johnson, Sherry Magee, Vern Stephens, and Minnie Minoso, I can see a reason for its continued existence. YMMV.
   719. jdennis Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:29 PM (#4343042)
happy that wells, franco, alomar, and green will not have to suffer the indignity of the zero
   720. Guapo Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:33 PM (#4343046)
I'm not exactly sure what Simmons is referring to as ruining the HOF 4-5 years ago


I'm guessing he's ballparking when McGwire became eligible and it became obvious that the writers were going to impose a steroids blackball. And he's right.

If you go visit the Hall of Fame later this summer, you'll see the plaques for Chick Hafey, Herb Pennock, and Rick Ferrell, but you won't see plaques for Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Mike Piazza. What sort of value does the Hall of Fame* hold if it no longer remotely represents an accurate reflection of the best players in baseball history?



*the plaque room
   721. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:34 PM (#4343049)
Along with the results, BBWAA is going to post ballots from writers who have agree to reveal them on their Web site at 2.

-- MWE
   722. themiddle54 Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:46 PM (#4343065)
Does anyone think the HOF has it in them to fudge the results if no candidate makes it? Such that Biggio or Morris gets in?


I don't think so personally. I think they would consider no inductees this year to have sent some kind of message about the PED era. Granted, I have a VERY low opinion of the BBWAA as a whole body.
   723. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:46 PM (#4343066)
I'm guessing he's ballparking when McGwire became eligible and it became obvious that the writers were going to impose a steroids blackball. And he's right.


I would agree with him on that.


Along with the results, BBWAA is going to post ballots from writers who have agree to reveal them on their Web site at 2.


I will be curious to see how many more (or less) they post than have been collected here.
   724. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4343072)
12 minutes until I'm completely confused by Piazza's omission. On the other hand, because I want to be more positive this year, I am gratified Raines is climbing up the ladder with his support. Also, I'm pretty happy our HOF nightmare is about to end.
   725. Old Matt Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:50 PM (#4343074)
Hey Repoz, thanks for doing this.
   726. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:54 PM (#4343082)
12 minutes until I'm completely confused by Piazza's omission. On the other hand, because I want to be more positive this year, I am gratified Raines is climbing up the ladder with his support. Also, I'm pretty happy our HOF nightmare is about to end.

More like postponed till November.
   727. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:55 PM (#4343084)
So I guess The End Of The World commences in about five minutes. (smile)
   728. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:56 PM (#4343087)
So I guess The End Of The World commences in about five minutes.

It's like 18 days late.
   729. cardsfanboy Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4343089)
Does anyone think the HOF has it in them to fudge the results if no candidate makes it? Such that Biggio or Morris gets in?


I've been saying it for a year now, yes I think they have it in them. It's not a knock against them, they could always rationalize it by telling themselves, whoever (Biggio?) finishes at the top of the list is going to go in eventually, fudging ultimately doesn't hurt(and they could easily rationalize that it helps by removing a name off the ballot)

To be fair his ballot was probably given to him by Boras.


Isn't that a different Heyman?

Looks like Kenny Lofton is going to get Kevin Browned.

Just like Kevin Brown was Lou Whitakered.


And Lou Whitaker was Ted Simmoned
and Ted Simmons was Bobby Griched
and Bobby Griched was Reggie Smithed
and Reggie Smith was Jimmy Wynned(and no one was as screwed over as a guy with 53 war who got zero votes)

(with apologies to Bert Campaneris, Sal Bando, Dick Allen and others who I probably also missed)

So you'd be creating a rule to make the equivalent of Robin Yount wait a year. Silly.

Even sillier, since there are already people who won't vote for a guy for the first time, no matter the rule change (If Willie Mays didn't get 100%, who is better? type of arguments)

I think they should drop the character clauses if the inductee agrees to spend one hour in the stocks on induction weekend (assuming they can find one big enough to clap around some of these guys' necks).


I know I'm being pedantic, and I'm probably wrong on this, but how is roids a part of the character clause? I see it as part of the integrity clause but having nothing to do with character(other than lack of integrity as a character trait)?
   730. DA Baracus Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4343090)
Along with the results, BBWAA is going to post ballots from writers who have agree to reveal them on their Web site at 2.


I am curious if anyone's actual ballot differs from the one they wrote about. Nothing would surprise me at this point.

Isn't that a different Heyman?


There's another Heyman? I did not know that.
   731. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 09, 2013 at 02:59 PM (#4343091)
So I guess The End Of The World commences in about five minutes.

It's like 18 days late.


Or 64 days, if you listen to the Obama Derangement crowd.
   732. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4343093)
pathetic
   733. Guapo Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4343094)
Bring out yer dead!
   734. cardsfanboy Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4343095)
Well that was anti-climatic.... No one goes in. Biggio with 68%
   735. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4343096)
Looks to me like the winner was Repoz. Good show, "Rog."
   736. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:00 PM (#4343097)
F5 F5 F5 come on and release them!
   737. JJ1986 Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:01 PM (#4343098)
No one?
   738. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:01 PM (#4343099)
wow, someone voted for aaron Sele? Sandy Alomar Jr had 16 votes? let silliness prevail!
   739. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4343101)
Biggio was highest with 68.2%
   740. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4343103)
FAIL.
   741. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4343104)
Five blank ballots.

-- MWE
   742. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:02 PM (#4343105)
Where are you guys getting your results? ESPN and Yahoo! still haven't posted them yet.
   743. zonk Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4343106)
Morons.

Every last one of them, morons.
   744. Ok, Griffey's Dunn (Nothing Iffey About Griffey) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4343107)
bbwaa.com
   745. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4343108)
Both Bonds and Clemens were under 40%. And Clemens outpolled Bonds.

-- MWE
   746. DA Baracus Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4343110)
Where are you guys getting your results? ESPN and Yahoo! still haven't posted them yet.


BBWAA announced it on Twitter.
   747. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4343111)
Results

-- MWE
   748. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4343112)
HoF: making LeDecision seem like sound judgement.
   749. cardsfanboy Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:03 PM (#4343113)
Where are you guys getting your results? ESPN and Yahoo! still haven't posted them yet.

mlb.com live
   750. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4343114)
repoz nails murphy!!
   751. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4343116)
Thanks, guys.
   752. zonk Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4343117)
Sooo...

Anyone know a good hotel near the Hall of Merit?
   753. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4343118)
I see Clemens got 1.4% more than Bonds. Glad I didn't put up any moolah on my 5% to 10% prediction.
   754. Blastin Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4343119)
This is stupid.
   755. JJ1986 Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:04 PM (#4343122)
Lofton's gone. I'm surprised Palmeiro stuck around.
   756. DA Baracus Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4343123)
Sooo...

Anyone know a good hotel near the Hall of Merit?


There are some great basements available at the bed and breakfasts near by.
   757. cardsfanboy Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4343125)
Biggest disappointment... Lofton off of the ballot. Not that I would have voted for him, but he should be on the ballot.
   758. Kiko Sakata Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4343127)
Holy crap! Aaron Sele got a vote!? Damn shame that nobody got elected, and the non-gizmo guys look to have been tougher on pretty much everybody than the gizmo guys.
   759. thetailor Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4343128)
[Biggio's] total reflected 68.2 percent of the electorate, which consists of BBWAA members with 10 or more consecutive years of Major League Baseball coverage. Five blank ballots were among those submitted. Other players named on more than half the ballots were pitcher Jack Morris with 385 (67.7 percent), first baseman Jeff Bagwell with 339 (59.6), catcher Mike Piazza with 329 (57.8) and outfielder Tim Raines with 297 (52.2).


70.1 - Biggio
60.3 - Piazza
59.8 - Raines
59.3 - Bagwell
59.3 - J. Morris

Biggio -2, Piazza -2.5, Raines -7, Bagwell even, Morris +8

Unbelievable.
   760. The Kentucky Gentleman, Mark Edward Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4343130)
Dumb.
   761. Guapo Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4343131)
Well, I guess Deacon White can no longer complain about not getting enough attention.
   762. Effervesoteric Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4343132)
Well we predicted it here, saw it coming a mile away...but still, even though I said I thought I'd enjoy this if/when it happened, it's actually quite dispiriting.
   763. zonk Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:06 PM (#4343134)
Biggest disappointment... Lofton off of the ballot. Not that I would have voted for him, but he should be on the ballot.


I would agree with that.

But - this is just an utter embarrassment of a debacle for the BBWAA.
   764. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4343138)
Actual results, Gizmo in parentheses:

68 (70) - Biggio
68 (59) - Morris
60 (59) - Bagwell
58 (60) - Piazza
52 (60) - Raines
48 (38) - Smith
39 (39) - Schilling
38 (44) - Clemens
36 (45) - Bonds
34 (38) - Trammell
36 (36) - E. Martinez
22 (17) - Walker
21 (20) - McGriff
19 (19) - D. Murphy
17 (14) - McGwire
13 (9) - Mattingly
13 (13) - Sosa
9 (13) - Palmeiro
   765. cardsfanboy Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4343139)
Harold Reynolds is the only one worth a crap on this panel.
   766. Andy McGeady Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4343140)
Lofton off the ballot.

Aaron Sele (!!) gets a vote.

This is a sign.
   767. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4343141)
There are some great basements available at the bed and breakfasts near by.

If I check into a basement, whips and chains had better be supplied.
   768. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4343142)
I object, your honor! This election is a travesty. It's a travesty of a mockery of a sham of a mockery of a travesty of two mockeries of a sham.


With apologies to Woody Allen.

Barely any movement for Morris, Bagwell, Raines. Bernie and Lofton off the ballot. Just terrible.
   769. Random Transaction Generator Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4343144)
So big jumps for Morris, Smith, Walker, McGwire (!), and Mattingly.
Big drops for Clemens, Bonds, and Raines.

(compared to the gizmo)
   770. zonk Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:08 PM (#4343146)

Biggio -2, Piazza -2.5, Raines -7, Bagwell even, Morris +8

Unbelievable.


Well, their Hall of Fame cases shouldn't have started taking PEDs... unlike Morris, who continues to miss out wholly on his own merits.
   771. SoSH U at work Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:09 PM (#4343152)
Well, Morris is done. He's not making it through the BBWAA.
   772. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4343160)
They said they're going to do some kind of retro induction of players (12?) who weren't inducted at Cooperstown because of wartime travel restrictions. Hornsby, Gehrig(?), and some others. They seem to have an unerring knack of honoring dead people.
   773. Famous Original Joe C Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4343169)
Well, Morris is done. He's not making it through the BBWAA.


Why do you say? He's at 68 with another year.
   774. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:13 PM (#4343171)
They said they're going to do some kind of retro induction of players (12?) who weren't inducted at Cooperstown because of wartime travel restrictions. Hornsby, Gehrig(?), and some others. They seem to have an unerring knack of honoring dead people.


Like I said earlier, this is a feeble attempt to convince people to come to an event that will honor three guys who died before that war.
   775. depletion Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:14 PM (#4343175)
But - this is just an utter embarrassment of a debacle for the BBWAA.

Why? You didn't suspect that any of the writers wouldn't vote for Bonds or Clemens? What percent would be not embarrassing, 73%? 100%? Anytime you ask 100 people what "character" or "integrity" are you can expect wildly varying answers.
   776. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:14 PM (#4343176)
I'm not as surprised by the Aaron Sele vote as I am by the 16 Sandy Alomar votes. I wonder how many voters were confusing him with his brother.
   777. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:15 PM (#4343179)
Well, Morris is done. He's not making it through the BBWAA.


Morris needed 42 more votes (569 voters, 427 to elect). I can't see any way, with Maddux, Glavine, and Mussina all hitting the ballot in 2014, that he gets them.

6.6 names per ballot.

-- MWE
   778. SoSH U at work Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:17 PM (#4343189)
Why do you say? He's at 68 with another year.


Because next year features two pitchers that are undeniably better than him, and perceived to be clean, plus all the other holdovers. He needed to get over 70 percent to make it next year. He didn't.

   779. Moloka'i Three-Finger Brown (Declino DeShields) Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:18 PM (#4343193)
I can't see any way, with Maddux, Glavine, and Mussina all hitting the ballot in 2014, that he gets them.


Maddux and Glavine are huge factors, but I can't believe that too many of the voters are going to prioritize a first ballot vote for Mussina over a last ballot vote for Morris. Morris is hanging off the cliff, but there's still a possibility that enough votes will decide to throw him a rope next time around.

   780. Pat D Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:19 PM (#4343195)
Yea, really perplexed by how Sandy Alomar gets almost as many votes as Kenny Lofton and Bernie Williams.
   781. AROM Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4343197)
Bonds got about 31% votes from the 2/3 of ballots not published and tabulated by Repoz.

Jack Morris got 73% from that group.
   782. robinred Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:21 PM (#4343199)
I predicted last year that Bonds and Clemens would be between 40-50, so I was wrong on that.
   783. GuyM Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4343206)
Maddux and Glavine are huge factors, but I can't believe that too many of the voters are going to prioritize a first ballot vote for Mussina over a last ballot vote for Morris. Morris is hanging off the cliff, but there's still a possibility that enough votes will decide to throw him a rope next time around.

Morris will be at best the 6th best starting pitcher on next year's ballot. As bad as BBWAA is, hard to see Morris reaching 75%.....


   784. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:25 PM (#4343212)
Writer ballots. 101 are posted.

-- MWE

   785. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4343216)

Like I said earlier, this is a feeble attempt to convince people to come to an event that will honor three guys who died before that war.


Oh, Lord, the 12 are Gehrig, Hornsby, and ten guys the Old Timers Committee put in during the war -- Ed Delahanty's been dead 110 years:

"They are BBWAA electees Lou Gehrig (1939) and Rogers Hornsby (1942), along with the entire class of 1945 selected by the Committee on Old Timers: Roger Bresnahan, Dan Brouthers, Fred Clarke, Jimmy Collins, Ed Delahanty, Hugh Duffy, Hughie Jennings, King Kelly, Jim O’Rourke and Wilbert Robinson."
   786. Kiko Sakata Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:28 PM (#4343217)
Yea, really perplexed by how Sandy Alomar gets almost as many votes as Kenny Lofton and Bernie Williams.


Career All-Star games: Lofton, 6; Williams, 5; Alomar, 6

I can't believe that too many of the voters are going to prioritize a first ballot vote for Mussina over a last ballot vote for Morris. Morris is hanging off the cliff, but there's still a possibility that enough votes will decide to throw him a rope next time around.


I think Morris has pretty much capped out his support. I can't imagine there's a voter out there who would think of Morris as any better than the 3rd-best starting pitcher on next year's ballot (Maddux, Glavine) and most people would see him 6th (Clemens, Mussina, Schilling). If people haven't been convinced he's a HOFer yet, I just don't see them becoming convinced when they have to choose between him, Schilling, and Mussina to squeeze onto their last ballot slot.
   787. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4343221)
Fun fact: it's the most names/ballot of any BBWAA election since 1999. (Narrowly, narrowly edging 2003). 6.60 names/ballot.

And they still couldn't get anyone to 75%. They couldn't come to a consensus on anyone.
   788. gabrielthursday Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:30 PM (#4343223)
Holdover movement

Morris: +1.1
Bagwell: +3.6
Raines: +3.5
Smith: -2.8
Trammell: -3.2
Martinez: -0.6
Walker: -1.3
McGriff: -3.2
McGwire: -2.6
Murphy: +4.1
Mattingly: -4.6
Williams: -6.3
Palmeiro: -3.8

Silver linings: Bagwell and Raines making more forward movement than Morris, despite being behind him on the ballot. Smith falling back. Walker and Martinez doing relatively well maintaining their vote despite the ballot strength.
   789. Yoenis Cespedes, Baseball Savant Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:31 PM (#4343229)
Results from private ballots not in the Gizmo, Gizmo in parentheses:

72 (59) - Morris
67 (70) - Biggio
60 (59) - Bagwell
57 (60) - Piazza
53 (38) - Smith
48 (60) - Raines
39 (39) - Schilling
36 (36) - E. Martinez
34 (44) - Clemens
31 (45) - Bonds
31 (38) - Trammell
24 (17) - Walker
21 (20) - McGriff
19 (19) - D. Murphy
18 (14) - McGwire
15 (9) - Mattingly
12 (13) - Sosa
7 (13) - Palmeiro

Jack Morris is on the cusp!
   790. Mike Webber Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4343232)
Right now the Cooperstown people are unveiling there 2013 marketing campaign, "You always wanted to come to an induction weekend, do it this year when there will be plenty of parking, and tiny, tiny, crowds!"
   791. AROM Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4343237)
Gehrig's name might draw some people up there. The other names? Other than relatives, I don't think they'd draw any more people to the ceremonies than the die-hards who would go even if no player was inducted, and the only speech was by the Frick award winner.
   792. AROM Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4343248)
I think Morris has pretty much capped out his support.


I'd call Murphy's +4% a last chance boost, and I could see Morris getting something like that. But it would not take him to 75%. I see Jim Rice's 15th year boost was also 4%.
   793. DL from MN Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:36 PM (#4343249)
Because next year features THREE pitchers that are undeniably better than him


FTFY
   794. Mike Emeigh Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4343258)
And they still couldn't get anyone to 75%. They couldn't come to a consensus on anyone.


There are a lot of qualified candidates but no overwhelmingly qualified candidates except for the two who are tarred by the PED brush. I have to think that at least half of the electorate imposed some PED penalty, with a good-sized percentage of that group committed to not voting for anyone with a potential taint, no matter how feeble the evidence and remote the possibility.

Next year there should be a consensus on Maddux, if no one else. Maddux should give us an idea of the size of the "no one from the steroid era" group.

-- MWE
   795. Mike Webber Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:39 PM (#4343259)
MLB network just had an interview with a HOFer who was picked up in an airport with coke, hash and marijuana saying he would think long an hard about attending a HOF weekend with a known steroids user.
   796. DL from MN Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4343262)
Kenny Rogers and Boomer Wells might be better than Jack Morris and they're both going to be one and done.
   797. MelOtt4 Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:41 PM (#4343263)
Foolish prediction with some changes the voters will elect four players next year. Maddux, Glavine, Thomas, and Biggio.
   798. Rennie's Tenet Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:43 PM (#4343267)
The other names? Other than relatives, I don't think they'd draw any more people to the ceremonies than the die-hards who would go even if no player was inducted, and the only speech was by the Frick award winner.


There's a lot of Irish among the Old Timers. Maybe the Irish will go?
   799. Guapo Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:45 PM (#4343274)
MLB network just had an interview with a HOFer who was picked up in an airport with coke, hash and marijuana saying he would think long an hard about attending a HOF weekend with a known steroids user.


In his defense, it sounds like he already has better plans for the weekend.
   800. SoSH U at work Posted: January 09, 2013 at 03:49 PM (#4343285)
Because next year features THREE pitchers that are undeniably better than him


I'm not talking about undeniable to us, but even to a nitwit like Jon Heyman*. The kind of guy who would put Morris on a ballot but not Schilling. Even that guy knows Morris isn't as good as Maddux or Glavine.

Seeing as he was on the verge of tears on MLB talking about Jack coming up short, I'm wondering if he just has a fetish for guys with names that end with the -orus sound).
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