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Tuesday, February 19, 2008

The Bad News Cubs: The Great RBI Statistic

STAT!...Get that RBI Machine Gun McGurney in here!

It’s become fashionable amongst statheads to dismiss the RBI as useless. This view has become so commonplace, such unanimous dogma… you would think we should do away with it altogether. If a guy knocks in three runs in a game, he should be more concerned with the state of his OPS, and not celebrating.

Statheads love to rip Joe Morgan, a longtime proponent of the RBI… and hall of fame player. He contributed significantly to championship clubs. Morgan’s a hall of fame PLAYER and not a geek studying fictional numbers with no relationship to winning baseball games. He may have completely ###### up in criticizing Billy Beane for ‘writing Moneyball’, which Beane obviously didn’t do… but he’s not wrong about the RBI… or which teams win in the postseason… teams that can manufacture runs.

But the statheads know better. They know that RBI’s are ‘team dependent’ and aren’t a fair evaluator of talent. This means that RBI opportunities are not distributed equally amongst all hitters. Specifically, a hitter on a good team is going to get more RBI’s than a similar hitter on a bad one, right? The numbers should bare this out. Statheads love stats… and yet, the stats, the numbers… their love… tell us something different about the RBI. How disconcerting. The numbers tell us that the best hitters have the most RBI’s no matter where they play. A good hitter can have a bad year… and a bad player a hot one… but through the years, the best hitters collect the most RBI’s period… no matter where they play.

...A single baseball player cannot win entire games over fictional replacement players. There are no win shares in the standings. On offense, all a hitter can do to affect winning is to score or knock in RUNS. If I were evaluating acquisitions, I’d be looking at a guy’s runs+RBI’s average through the years.

Repoz Posted: February 19, 2008 at 12:56 PM | 375 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: sabermetrics

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   301. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:32 PM (#2696881)
Dan and DMN, there is no doubt in my mind that BNC either IS Hageman or is a direct genetic offspring, faulty cloning technology or otherwise.

The ultimate test...BNC, what do you think of Mike Bordick?
   302. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2696894)
God knows there's a time to bunt.


Is this why Jeter bats second?

Best Regards

John
   303. The Good Face Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:49 PM (#2696903)
Dan and DMN, there is no doubt in my mind that BNC either IS Hageman or is a direct genetic offspring, faulty cloning technology or otherwise.


I think he's more like a furious, even more deranged version of Jesus Melendez. A second coming if you will, verily bearing the Lord's fiery sword of (poor) judgment. This thread delivered and then some.

I especially enjoyed how he discredited the very concept of the Replacement Player by associating it with Dungeons and Dragons. Well played sir.
   304. RobertMachemer Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:57 PM (#2696906)
Dan and DMN, there is no doubt in my mind that BNC either IS Hageman or is a direct genetic offspring, faulty cloning technology or otherwise.
That was my thinking as well.

Does the Orioles usenet group still get any traffic? Despite having a lot of good posters at one point (Dan Szym and DMN obviously being among them), I stopped lurking there years ago because Hageman so effectively (among other less complimentary adverbs) dominated discussion.
   305. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:04 PM (#2696915)
Yeah, the Cubs offense. Hill started 25 games, not 18. The Cubs won 17 of those. They averaged over 7 runs per game in those wins


No, the Kendall acquisition killed everything.

Hill's first start was the day after the Z/Barrett fight... and no team would win that game. Starting June 3, the Cubs went 14-4 when Hill started, 6-3 I think it was with Bowen... and 2-0 I want to say with Soto...

Then our idiot GM got fleeced by Billy Beane. Hill was demoted when the team had done nothing but win with him. It's only in this modern era that people care so gawddam much how a catcher hits. That's like fourth in line for his priorities.

This was a team that was working and didn't need change... and Hendry brought in a leaky catcher with obp and we immediately turned into a .500 team.

Catcher was the core issue for the 2007 Chicago Cubs. The team shifts in performances revolved around it.
   306. spycake Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:07 PM (#2696920)
I wouldn't call 34-25 some grand example of 'something working'.

But the Dodgers going 34-27 after the LoDuca trade is a great example of 'something NOT working'?
   307. cardsfanboy Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:11 PM (#2696928)
you certainly are delusional if you think that Hill was the reason your team won or loss games.

You are also delusional if you think the era of hitting catchers is a big deal more important nowadays than it was in the past. The 70's is filled with good hitting catchers with questionable defense. Just like now, and then, they will accept less offense from a catcher because it's tough getting a good hitting one to stick around. And just like in the past, they will nowadays move a good hitting catcher to another part of the diamond if they think he can make the switch, regardless of how his defense rates, because the bat is more important.


I can't believe that you actually think the Cubs won games because of Koyie Hill. That is beyond nuts.
   308. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:18 PM (#2696937)
Hageman is still there in ASBBO. Several of the other frequent ASBBO posters are active in a Yahoo fantasy baseball league where they can discuss baseball without the interference of Hageman. DMN participated in that for one year and Dan did for three(?), but the rest from what I can tell post more in that setting than in ASBBO.
   309. CrosbyBird Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:31 PM (#2696952)
My dating life has been a thrill. Every race, every color.

I thought only Shatner got to bang the blue chicks.
   310. Peoria Dave Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:41 PM (#2696961)
My favorite line from this thread has been his comment about getting plenty of sex with all races. BNC is a man of the people, by the people, for the people.

Close second would be that he hangs out with lots of gay people and black people even though he's shown a tendency to be homophobic and probably racist as well (who says they have lots of black friends?).
   311. CrosbyBird Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:45 PM (#2696963)
I hate the thought of the new 4th edition, I just got my 5th monster manual, and along with fiend folio is a pretty stong investment in 3rd edition (never did go to 3.5) not sure that I want to jump into the fray again with a 4th edition(not to mention having to force my party to buy player handbooks again) and those of us who have played D&D;should join together in a moment of silence for the passing of Dragon Magazine

3.0 has a lot of serious issues and not so serious issues that are fixed to some degree in 3.5; certainly there's some blame for releasing a system that had some serious flaws. 3.0 was like the beta version of 3rd Edition D&D;.

Have you read very much about 4th Edition? Wizards has been pretty upfront about not having a 3.0/3.5 problem. For a very small price, you'll have electronic versions of your books and up to date errata. A lot of the bookkeeping is going to be automated with computer software. Map software, software that does all your calculations for you, etc.

But primarily, they've looked at things that tend to be unsatisfying in the current D&D;system, and correcting them. Like wizards running out of spells, or some characters gaining levels that provide practically no difference in character abilities, to being relegated to "healbot" status as a cleric, etc. Eliminating save or die effects. Removing xp costs for item creation.

I don't buy splatbooks too often because the game with core rules is pretty good as is, but even if you buy a new book every 2 months for $30, it's hard to get too many deals that have a better cost/time ratio for your entertainment dollar.

Dragon Magazine as a magazine is gone, but the same type of content will be online with D&D;Insider.
   312. Peoria Dave Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:50 PM (#2696970)
I thought only Shatner got to bang the blue chicks.


Shatner and BNC have those privileges. We should be honored by his presence.
   313. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:52 PM (#2696971)
Nice try. I just haven't found too many intellectuals who use the words as often as you do. They aren't necessary and are almost always used that frequently by the uneducated. Don't mistake my criticism for your constant use of foul language as the only one I can come up with. I just don't care to get into a discussion with you because I can have the very same discussion with the side of my house when I get home from work. Your thoughts and opinions are the same ones I read each morning in the newspaper and the same ones I see on ESPN and they're the same ones casual fans, heavy drinkers discuss over their 3rd and 4th pitchers of beer.


Peoria Dave, I'm awarding you an honorary sociology degree from Imbecile University.

Sorry, I'm not an alcoholic. I do enjoy fine wine though, particularly German Riesling and for reds, Chateauneuf du pape.

Any other things you want to tell me about myself? You've claimed racist, homophobic, and uneducated thus far. Listen, just stick to 'stupid' in your attacks, okay? It's your forte. (See, these lines are so good... it's why you and the others keep coming back. These kinds of lines don't come from the uneducated.)

And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.

Here's some sociology for you... I'm having whole lot more fun than you with this little tete-a-tete. See how there's flair and fun in my writing? Playfulness? There's none in yours.
   314. cardsfanboy Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:01 AM (#2696982)
I haven't read much at all about 4th Edition, read one article in KODT and that was pretty much it.


I know I'll end up getting at least the core set, I'm sure that most of my house rules will stay in effect, I still have yet to see D&D;incorporate a good magic system, heck my modified spell point system still sucks, but it's better than the game ever had. I would love to revamp the entire magic system, it's such an integral part of the game and was more or less hodgepodged into place that the powers that be don't want to change it, even though it clearly is flawed. As to every 2 months buying, yep that is about the pace I go as of now.

I like that they looked at what was unsatisfying and focused on making changes, there were sometimes that it was pretty useless to be a cleric or thief and going up a level.

Not really sure what the serious flaws with 3.0 were, mind you I'm probably playing technically a version that is a blend of all the versions using rules that work best.
   315. talbright Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:06 AM (#2696986)
My God, you're a jack-ass.
   316. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:07 AM (#2696988)
And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.


Unless you're bragging about your speed reading prowess, that doesn't seem to be much of an accomplishment. The answers are right there on the screen.
   317. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:08 AM (#2696990)
Nice try. I just haven't found too many intellectuals who use the words as often as you do. They aren't necessary and are almost always used that frequently by the uneducated. Don't mistake my criticism for your constant use of foul language as the only one I can come up with. I just don't care to get into a discussion with you because I can have the very same discussion with the side of my house when I get home from work. Your thoughts and opinions are the same ones I read each morning in the newspaper and the same ones I see on ESPN and they're the same ones casual fans, heavy drinkers discuss over their 3rd and 4th pitchers of beer.


Peoria Dave, I'm awarding you an honorary sociology degree from Imbecile University.

Sorry, I'm not an alcoholic. I do enjoy fine wine though, particularly German Riesling and for reds, Chateauneuf du pape.

Any other things you want to tell me about myself? You've claimed racist, homophobic, and uneducated thus far. Listen, just stick to 'stupid' in your attacks, okay? It's your forte. (See, these lines are so good... it's why you and the others keep coming back. These kinds of lines don't come from the uneducated.)

And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.

Here's some sociology for you... I'm having whole lot more fun than you with this little tete-a-tete. See how there's flair and fun in my writing? Playfulness? There's none in yours.
   318. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:11 AM (#2696995)
Nice try. I just haven't found too many intellectuals who use the words as often as you do. They aren't necessary and are almost always used that frequently by the uneducated. Don't mistake my criticism for your constant use of foul language as the only one I can come up with. I just don't care to get into a discussion with you because I can have the very same discussion with the side of my house when I get home from work. Your thoughts and opinions are the same ones I read each morning in the newspaper and the same ones I see on ESPN and they're the same ones casual fans, heavy drinkers discuss over their 3rd and 4th pitchers of beer.


Peoria Dave, I'm awarding you an honorary sociology degree from Imbecile University.

Sorry, I'm not an alcoholic. I do enjoy fine wine though, particularly German Riesling and for reds, Chateauneuf du pape.

Any other things you want to tell me about myself? You've claimed racist, homophobic, and uneducated thus far. Listen, just stick to 'stupid' in your attacks, okay? It's your forte. (See, these lines are so good... it's why you and the others keep coming back. These kinds of lines don't come from the uneducated.)

And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.

Here's some sociology for you... I'm having whole lot more fun than you with this little tete-a-tete. See how there's flair and fun in my writing? Playfulness? There's none in yours.
   319. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:13 AM (#2696997)
And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.




BNC is the guy with th curly hair.
   320. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:13 AM (#2696998)
deleted
   321. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:17 AM (#2697000)
Nice try. I just haven't found too many intellectuals who use the words as often as you do. They aren't necessary and are almost always used that frequently by the uneducated. Don't mistake my criticism for your constant use of foul language as the only one I can come up with. I just don't care to get into a discussion with you because I can have the very same discussion with the side of my house when I get home from work. Your thoughts and opinions are the same ones I read each morning in the newspaper and the same ones I see on ESPN and they're the same ones casual fans, heavy drinkers discuss over their 3rd and 4th pitchers of beer.


Peoria Dave, I'm awarding you an honorary sociology degree from Imbecile University.

Sorry, I'm not an alcoholic. I do enjoy fine wine though, particularly German Riesling and for reds, Chateauneuf du pape.

Any other things you want to tell me about myself? You've claimed racist, homophobic, and uneducated thus far. Listen, just stick to 'stupid' in your attacks, okay? It's your forte. (See, these lines are so good... it's why you and the others keep coming back. These kinds of lines don't come from the uneducated.)

And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.

Here's some sociology for you... I'm having whole lot more fun than you with this little tete-a-tete. See how there's flair and fun in my writing? Playfulness? There's none in yours.
   322. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:23 AM (#2697002)
It'll be good to avoid some of the dross, but could we hold off on quality-post ratio (QPR)? I'm actually a season ticket holder at Queens Park Rangers (Loftus Road, London W12) who also subscibes to their mailing list and I doubt I'd be able to keep it all straight.

Luton Town home this Saturday - Up the R's!!

(oops, it's Baseball Primer...)

Thnaks for the hard work. The site is a treat"
   323. CrosbyBird Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:39 AM (#2697013)
I still have yet to see D&D;incorporate a good magic system

This is the furthest they've even come from the Vancian system (memorizing and forgetting spells), which is where the problems come from.

They're going to have some abilities that refresh with every encounter, which is a really nice fix. I think it would be best if they eliminated spell preparation entirely, but that's a huge change for a system that's been going that way for this long.
   324. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:44 AM (#2697016)
Nice try. I just haven't found too many intellectuals who use the words as often as you do. They aren't necessary and are almost always used that frequently by the uneducated. Don't mistake my criticism for your constant use of foul language as the only one I can come up with. I just don't care to get into a discussion with you because I can have the very same discussion with the side of my house when I get home from work. Your thoughts and opinions are the same ones I read each morning in the newspaper and the same ones I see on ESPN and they're the same ones casual fans, heavy drinkers discuss over their 3rd and 4th pitchers of beer.


Peoria Dave, I'm awarding you an honorary sociology degree from Imbecile University.

Sorry, I'm not an alcoholic. I do enjoy fine wine though, particularly German Riesling and for reds, Chateauneuf du pape.

Any other things you want to tell me about myself? You've claimed racist, homophobic, and uneducated thus far. Listen, just stick to 'stupid' in your attacks, okay? It's your forte. (See, these lines are so good... it's why you and the others keep coming back. These kinds of lines don't come from the uneducated.)

And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.

Here's some sociology for you... I'm having whole lot more fun than you with this little tete-a-tete. See how there's flair and fun in my writing? Playfulness? There's none in yours.
   325. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:54 AM (#2697020)
Nice try. I just haven't found too many intellectuals who use the words as often as you do. They aren't necessary and are almost always used that frequently by the uneducated. Don't mistake my criticism for your constant use of foul language as the only one I can come up with. I just don't care to get into a discussion with you because I can have the very same discussion with the side of my house when I get home from work. Your thoughts and opinions are the same ones I read each morning in the newspaper and the same ones I see on ESPN and they're the same ones casual fans, heavy drinkers discuss over their 3rd and 4th pitchers of beer.


Peoria Dave, I'm awarding you an honorary sociology degree from Imbecile University.

Sorry, I'm not an alcoholic. I do enjoy fine wine though, particularly German Riesling and for reds, Chateauneuf du pape.

Any other things you want to tell me about myself? You've claimed racist, homophobic, and uneducated thus far. Listen, just stick to 'stupid' in your attacks, okay? It's your forte. (See, these lines are so good... it's why you and the others keep coming back. These kinds of lines don't come from the uneducated.)

And man... I swear... I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you... or to watch Jeopardy together side by side and see who chimes in with more correct answers quickly.

Here's some sociology for you... I'm having whole lot more fun than you with this little tete-a-tete. See how there's flair and fun in my writing? Playfulness? There's none in yours.
   326. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 01:18 AM (#2697034)
The ultimate test...BNC, what do you think of Mike Bordick?


To be honest, I never saw a lot of Mike Bordick, or noticed really. Looking at his numbers, I gather he juiced. His slugging sure spiked up at the age of 33. I recall him being a solid defender, but I don't recall thinking he was Omar Visquel or anything.
   327. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 01:32 AM (#2697040)
The ultimate test...BNC, what do you think of Mike Bordick?


To be honest, I don't remember much about Mike Bordick. Looking at his numbers, I'd say he juiced. His slugging sure spiked up at age 33. Defensively, I remember him being solid, but I wasn't confusing him with Omar Visquel.

Meanwhile, what the hell is going on with this site? I apologize for the repeat comments now that I finally got in. Every time I tried to post, the site would just sit still.
   328. Peoria Dave Posted: February 22, 2008 at 01:40 AM (#2697044)
I would love nothing more than to engage in vocabulary contest with you


That is so strange. Someone just asked me the same exact thing just 30 years ago.

I'm not sure what's worse: that there is nothing else you'd rather do than have a vocabulary contest with me or that I haven't heard one person challenge another to a vocabulary test in nearly 30 years.
   329. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 01:42 AM (#2697045)
But the Dodgers going 34-27 after the LoDuca trade is a great example of 'something NOT working'?


If your team performed worse after a major trade than it was doing before hand, I would call that trade unsuccessful for that season. If your team did better after a trade, I'd call it successful.

If your trade had more of an eye on the future, I'd wait a bunch of years before judging. The Dodgers trade was primarily made for that season... and he rolled the dice on getting Randy Johnson as I mentioned earlier. He won the trade longterm, but not for that season.
   330. cardsfanboy Posted: February 22, 2008 at 01:46 AM (#2697048)
your definition of a good trade is based solely upon how the team does before and after? not how the players do, but how the team did? You don't look at other aspects of a team record, or other trades that could have figured into the changing record or health issues of other player on the team, but strictly on the team record? how does that make any sense?
   331. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 22, 2008 at 01:53 AM (#2697050)
If your team performed worse after a major trade than it was doing before hand, I would call that trade unsuccessful for that season. If your team did better after a trade, I'd call it successful.


So why then harp on the Kendall trade? The Cubs had a .527 W% before the trade, and a .521 after. Yes, it's a drop, about .4 wins worth.
   332. Hal Chase Headley Lamarr Hoyt Wilhelm (ACE1242) Posted: February 22, 2008 at 02:03 AM (#2697056)
how does that make any sense?

CFB, you're a man among men and a rock among boulders, but for you to still be asking a question like that 337 posts into this thread is not a promising sign.
   333. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 02:22 AM (#2697065)
I thought only Shatner got to bang the blue chicks.


I like Crosby. He's cool.

Close second would be that he hangs out with lots of gay people and black people even though he's shown a tendency to be homophobic and probably racist as well (who says they have lots of black friends?).


This has gotten REALLY old. Dave, it's time for you to confess that you've never had a black or gay friend. This is just ridiculous. You're obsessed with an issue not having any semblance of the truth. Not a shred. Furthermore, the difference between you and I is... if I were a racist or homophobe, I'd say it.

I think YOU'VE never had a black or gay friend... ever. The world isn't Peoria, Dave. Some of us have lived in several major metropolitan areas. Some of us have known people of every single race and sexual orientation out there. In your case, you seem to know several of the type of racists who say one thing publicly and another privately. I don't hang out with those.

Here's why you're pushing this subject so much. You're the wanna-be populist liberal... imposing your ideals on others without any real social experience. You're the reverse racist type who would vote for Obama because deep down you're thinking, "Wow, how nice... a well spoken black guy... I like him. I don't even care to look at the issues, I just like that. A well spoken black guy who still has some flavor in his speaking." Want to know why you're so smitten? Because you haven't known any.

John McCain is going to be our next president and it's because of people like you, Dave. We get more of the same because of white guilt, white race police, phony idiots with no cultural experience whatsoever.
   334. Charter Member of the Jesus Melendez Fanclub Posted: February 22, 2008 at 02:29 AM (#2697069)
It'll be good to avoid some of the dross...

Brilliant
   335. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 22, 2008 at 02:34 AM (#2697074)
So John McCain is going to get elected because people like Dave are voting for Obama?
   336. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 02:45 AM (#2697081)
And one final thing for Dave...

People who have friends of all cultures and aren't uptight phonies... have no problem talking about gay and racial issues. It's not uncomfortable around us... it's fun laughing at our differences and similarities. Go watch Lisa Lampanelli's standup and get over yourself.

You uptight phony. People like you cause all the racial problems in society today, more than racists. Some idiot like you opens your mouth and next thing you know Sharpton and Jesse show up because they finally have something to do. The media goes bananas and it's all stupid. People are racists or they're not... and phonies like you don't make any difference... you only make things worse... and get everyone uncomfortable.

God do I hate people who bring up race where it's not even an issue. Worse than racists. I especially hate it when they're white like you. You're beneath contempt.

Why not just call someone a rapist or murderer out of the clear blue also, you phony piece of garbage?

And what had you so sure I'm not black? What, a black person can't write like this? You f'-ing Racist.
   337. Len Lansford, Carney Barker Posted: February 22, 2008 at 02:55 AM (#2697088)
0/10

Obvious troll is obvious.
   338. Dan Szymborski Posted: February 22, 2008 at 03:15 AM (#2697096)
Behold!

SUMMON DUMB ARGUMENT!

SUMMON CLOAK OF RACISM AND HOMOPHOBIA!

2D8 >15 = People won't laugh at Bad News!

At least, since he's giving out an honorary degree from Imbecile University (the same one about 5 or 6 times apparently), he's admitting that he's the Dean of Imbecile University, else he wouldn't be authorized to confer honorary degrees.

So, I guess we can add to Bad News's character sheet the HOLY MORTARBOARD OF IMBECILITY! +2 Repel Logic, +2 Reflect Coherence, +4 Induce Mocking Laughter.

I gotta give it to Repoz, he really summoned us a fun victim - I can't remember the last time we were given someone so clueless to play with and I remember Jesus Melendez.
   339. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 03:16 AM (#2697098)
Because Cardsfanboy...

The goal of a baseball team is to WIN GAMES... not win at stats. That's the problem with you people. You think the object is to have the best stats.

I recently put the following quote up on my site from Phil Jackson, taken from Sam Smith's great book, "The Jordan Rules":

Jackson has a great fondness for the Knicks - by which he means the old Knicks, the team he was a part of. He owns perhaps the only reversible leather coat in the world with a Bulls logo on one side and a Knicks emblem on the other. His days with the Knicks represent a kind of basketball nirvana for him: the unselfish play, the bonding among the guys. Jackson even had a chance to return to the Knicks as an assistant coach when Rick Pitino was hired; he was still stuck in the CBA when Pitino offered him a spot, but he was too wary of the Knicks’ corporate ownership to sign on. He had clashed with management after Gulf + Western bought the Knicks and the personnel moves became more and more capricious. “These guys didn’t know anything about basketball, about men coming together and bonding their talents,” he said. “They’d say, ‘Let’s go get us Spencer Haywood. Uh-oh, he’s not working. So, we’ll get ourselves a Bob McAdoo.’ We had built a team with Frazier and Reed and [Mike] Riordan and Jackson, basically unheralded basketball players. And from this unlikely group of players, second-round draft picks, you have a team. You don’t build a team by going out and getting stars.”


You guys all think the goal of a team is to collect a team of as many stars as possible... as though chemistry doesn't exist. The Yankees didn't win anything once they truly went into high gear with their all-star shopping each offseason. Noticed how they've changed course the last couple years?

Winning as a team involves mixing and matching parts that work best together. But you imbeciles all think you know winning better than Phil Jackson and his nine rings. And don't give me the Jordan/Kobe BS... because neither team was getting anywhere before Phil.

Let's take a team of five players in basketball and make four of them a constant.

For the fifth, if Player A has a better overall talent set as far as shooting, defense, passing, etc.... than Player B... in your mind, the team would for sure win more games Player A. In my mind, I need to see how each one works with the team and whether we win more with one or the other. That's the distinction that sets me apart from statheads.

There's a psychology to team dynamics. Who's the alpha male? Who's more comfortable in a supporting role? Who's technique naturally works best with the organic humans around him? Who feels threatened if there's a competitor for his job and performs worse? Who feels threatened if there's someone around better than he?

Look at Colorado and what came together last year. If the 15 years of serious numbers crunching that statheads have compiled had yielded at least one system that put Colorado in the Series, I'd say you're onto something. But, because there are human, organic dynamics beyond your stats... there are mystical/metaphysical/unpredictable elements to team dynamics... you folks will never understand what a team is. And there will always be a Colorado Rockies in a World Series, NBA Final, NHL Final, etc... that you folks had no idea was coming.
   340. Peoria Dave Posted: February 22, 2008 at 03:27 AM (#2697100)
People like you cause all the racial problems in society today


I take offense to that. I had nothing to do with why black women are paid less than white women.
   341. Dan Szymborski Posted: February 22, 2008 at 03:46 AM (#2697109)
And what had you so sure I'm not black?

Since you're a racist and you're clearly not self-loathing, it seemed pretty obvious you're not black.
   342. Peoria Dave Posted: February 22, 2008 at 03:57 AM (#2697112)
Why not just call someone a rapist or murderer out of the clear blue also


Doing so with no evidence would be irresponsible. I've read all your comments here, and a few entries on your blog. I'm just pointing out what others are thinking and what some (Dan) have already said.

When did rape and murder become the equivalent of racism? They must have taught that in special-ed classes.
   343. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: February 22, 2008 at 04:01 AM (#2697114)
and what some (Dan) have already said

Citing another pinko liberal hardly bolsters your argument.

BNC is right; the non-racists are going to vote for McCain because he stopped using the term "gooks" a couple years ago. Plus, we all know John was just having a chuckle.
   344. JJ1986 Posted: February 22, 2008 at 04:07 AM (#2697116)
Basketball? That's completely different. The players have to constantly interact with each other. Derek Jeter doesn't become a worse hitter because Alex Rodriguez and he don't mesh well, though.

And Colorado had the best stats in the National League last year. That's mostly why they were in the World Series. That and Tony Gwynn Jr.
   345. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 04:12 AM (#2697118)
Because Cardsfanboy...

The goal of a baseball team is to WIN GAMES... not win at stats. That's the problem with you people. You think the object is to have the best stats.

I recently put the following quote up on my site from Phil Jackson, taken from Sam Smith's great book, "The Jordan Rules":

Jackson has a great fondness for the Knicks - by which he means the old Knicks, the team he was a part of. He owns perhaps the only reversible leather coat in the world with a Bulls logo on one side and a Knicks emblem on the other. His days with the Knicks represent a kind of basketball nirvana for him: the unselfish play, the bonding among the guys. Jackson even had a chance to return to the Knicks as an assistant coach when Rick Pitino was hired; he was still stuck in the CBA when Pitino offered him a spot, but he was too wary of the Knicks’ corporate ownership to sign on. He had clashed with management after Gulf + Western bought the Knicks and the personnel moves became more and more capricious. “These guys didn’t know anything about basketball, about men coming together and bonding their talents,” he said. “They’d say, ‘Let’s go get us Spencer Haywood. Uh-oh, he’s not working. So, we’ll get ourselves a Bob McAdoo.’ We had built a team with Frazier and Reed and [Mike] Riordan and Jackson, basically unheralded basketball players. And from this unlikely group of players, second-round draft picks, you have a team. You don’t build a team by going out and getting stars.”


You guys all think the goal of a team is to collect a team of as many stars as possible... as though chemistry doesn't exist. The Yankees didn't win anything once they truly went into high gear with their all-star shopping each offseason. Noticed how they've changed course the last couple years?

Winning as a team involves mixing and matching parts that work best together. But you imbeciles all think you know winning better than Phil Jackson and his nine rings. And don't give me the Jordan/Kobe BS... because neither team was getting anywhere before Phil.

Let's take a team of five players in basketball and make four of them a constant.

For the fifth, if Player A has a better overall talent set as far as shooting, defense, passing, etc.... than Player B... in your mind, the team would for sure win more games Player A. In my mind, I need to see how each one works with the team and whether we win more with one or the other. That's the distinction that sets me apart from statheads.

There's a psychology to team dynamics. Who's the alpha male? Who's more comfortable in a supporting role? Who's technique naturally works best with the organic humans around him? Who feels threatened if there's a competitor for his job and performs worse? Who feels threatened if there's someone around better than he?

Look at Colorado and what came together last year. If the 15 years of serious numbers crunching that statheads have compiled had yielded at least one system that put Colorado in the Series, I'd say you're onto something. But, because there are human, organic dynamics beyond your stats... there are mystical/metaphysical/unpredictable elements to team dynamics... you folks will never understand what a team is. And there will always be a Colorado Rockies in a World Series, NBA Final, NHL Final, etc... that you folks had no idea was coming.
   346. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: February 22, 2008 at 04:25 AM (#2697125)
It'll be good to avoid some of the dross...
   347. cardsfanboy Posted: February 22, 2008 at 04:48 AM (#2697129)
I agree that the goal is to win games, but evaluating a trade without taking into everything else that happened after it, is idiotic. I mean say the cubs have a record of 40-40 and trade koylie hill for Mauer, and a day later Lee gets injured for a month, a week later Aramis Ramirez gets injured and two of their starting pitchers go down a week later, and the cubs then go one game under .500 for the rest of the season, in your world that means trading hill for Mauer was a bad trade, once again context matters. Which is why people have a problem with RBI as a stat, it doesn't deal with context.
   348. GotowarMissAgnes Posted: February 22, 2008 at 04:50 AM (#2697131)
I do think the object is to have the best stats.
Having the most runs at the end of each game.
Having the most wins at the end of the regular season.
Having the most wins at the end of each series.
have the best stats and you are the champs.
   349. Peoria Dave Posted: February 22, 2008 at 05:20 AM (#2697142)
If the 15 years of serious numbers crunching that statheads have compiled had yielded at least one system that put Colorado in the Series, I'd say you're onto something.


It's only been 15 years if we ignore the 100 or so before that, but facts aren't important.
   350. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 05:51 AM (#2697156)
Wow, now I'm definitely out of here.

Dan and Dave... you guys are the most despicable forms of life out there. You are white, piece of garbage... race police phonies of the first order. The fakest whites who did NOT grow up with minorities. And the minorities know you're fake, believe me.

I can see you guys getting bent out of shape, unjustifiably, over my mentioning Dan's queer photograph... but to flat out call someone a racist when a person has mentioned absolutely nothing even close to racism... is beyond reproach. You fake PC pieces of garbage. You probably criticize hunters who actually eat their kills while you're en route to the store to buy meat.

Now, remember this... because I'm wiser than both of you imbeciles put together...

John McCain and the Republicans will rip Barack Obama apart... whereas Hilary could have defeated them. When this happens... and I'm on record right here...

You remember that it's because of the sorriest, fakest, whitest, lamest... phonies like you. People like you will choose a black with less qualifications over someone of another race because you're reverse racist. You have white guilt because you have the need for guilt. You guys have no soul, no flavor... you're the most boring, uninteresting form of white in existence. No gay man would ever be interested in either of you... and no black would find your racism cry here even remotely responsible.

Ah well... your best thread is over. Go back to fighting against racism in front of whites and not blacks... cowards. The blacks would laugh at you.
   351. Dan The Mediocre Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:04 AM (#2697162)
Wow, now I'm definitely out of here.


Why haven't you left yet?

John McCain and the Republicans will rip Barack Obama apart... whereas Hilary could have defeated them. When this happens... and I'm on record right here...


I'll make sure to remind you of this in November.
   352. BadNewsCubs Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:07 AM (#2697163)
Wow, now I'm definitely out of here.

Dan and Dave... you guys are the most despicable forms of life out there. You are white, piece of garbage... race police phonies of the first order. The fakest whites who did NOT grow up with minorities. And the minorities know you're fake, believe me.

I can see you guys getting bent out of shape, unjustifiably, over my mentioning Dan's queer photograph... but to flat out call someone a racist when a person has mentioned absolutely nothing even close to racism... is beyond reproach. You fake PC pieces of garbage. You probably criticize hunters who actually eat their kills while you're en route to the store to buy meat.

Now, remember this... because I'm wiser than both of you imbeciles put together...

John McCain and the Republicans will rip Barack Obama apart... whereas Hilary could have defeated them. When this happens... and I'm on record right here...

You remember that it's because of the sorriest, fakest, whitest, lamest... phonies like you. People like you will choose a black with less qualifications over someone of another race because you're reverse racist. You have white guilt because you have the need for guilt. You guys have no soul, no flavor... you're the most boring, uninteresting form of white in existence. No gay man would ever be interested in either of you... and no black would find your racism cry here even remotely responsible.

Phonies like you kiss black people's a$zes when you're around them like little wussy babies. It's fake. I treat each individual the same, based on their character.

Ah well... your best thread is over. Go back to fighting against racism in front of whites and not blacks... cowards. The blacks would laugh at you.
   353. Dan The Mediocre Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:08 AM (#2697164)
Wow, now I'm definitely out of here.


You just posted that already, and you're still here.
   354. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:08 AM (#2697165)
It'll be good to avoid some of the dross, but could we hold off on quality-post ratio (QPR)? I'm actually a season ticket holder at Queens Park Rangers (Loftus Road, London W12) who also subscibes to their mailing list and I doubt I'd be able to keep it all straight.

Luton Town home this Saturday - Up the R's!!

(oops, it's Baseball Primer...)

Thnaks for the hard work. The site is a treat
   355. a bebop a rebop Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:09 AM (#2697166)
Having read through this thread over the past hour or so, I have one question...

Why the #### is there a semi-colon after D&D;?
   356. Dan Szymborski Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:11 AM (#2697167)

Dan and Dave... you guys are the most despicable forms of life out there. You are white, piece of garbage... race police phonies of the first order. The fakest whites who did NOT grow up with minorities. And the minorities know you're fake, believe me.


Woo, we really did need an entertainment idiot around here. Love the motley, Bull Connor.

I can see you guys getting bent out of shape, unjustifiably, over my mentioning Dan's queer photograph... but to flat out call someone a racist when a person has mentioned absolutely nothing even close to racism... is beyond reproach. You fake PC pieces of garbage. You probably criticize hunters who actually eat their kills while you're en route to the store to buy meat.

No, because hunters are competent. The only thing you ever hunt for is your piece of paper with your ATM pin written on it because your brain can't handle 4 numbers.

John McCain and the Republicans will rip Barack Obama apart... whereas Hilary could have defeated them. When this happens... and I'm on record right here...

Wow, you're on the record! I'm sure the world was tingling in anticipation of your analysis. And you gave it to us in an exclusive! Now your one regular blog reader will have to wait to ask for the secret scoop when she calls you up for dinner tomorrow.

. People like you will choose a black with less qualifications over someone of another race because you're reverse racist

Reverse racist? Wouldn't that still be racism? Well, you're not big on knowing how stuff works or what stuff means, so I'll let you slide, dancing bear.

You guys have no soul, no flavor... you're the most boring, uninteresting form of white in existence. No gay man would ever be interested in either of you... and no black would find your racism cry here even remotely responsible.

Well, you're homophobic and retarded too, not just racist. Maybe you can't remember 3 things at once after all.

Ah well... your best thread is over. Go back to fighting against racism in front of whites and not blacks... cowards. The blacks would laugh at you.

This paragraph would make me think that English is perhaps your 3rd or 4th language, but I'm not sure you're a sharp enough knife to go beyond one.

You're the one who should be sad - in the last few days, 99% of everyone who will ever read your writing have judged you laughable. I'd suggest a bath with the toaster, but this has been like a classic usenet thread not seen since WebTV lost popularity.

Now, dance for us, fool! I command thee!
   357. Dan The Mediocre Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:13 AM (#2697169)
I'd suggest a bath with the toaster, but this has been like a classic usenet thread not seen since WebTV lost popularity.


Toasters make good flotation devices.
   358. Dan Szymborski Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:14 AM (#2697171)
You just posted that already, and you're still here.

My guess? He closed a navigation toolbar and can't figure out how to get to another website, thus ruining the internet for him for the rest of his life.
   359. Dan The Mediocre Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:16 AM (#2697172)
My guess? He closed a navigation toolbar and can't figure out how to get to another website, thus ruining the internet for him for the rest of his life.


I think he just wants attention. Maybe we should pet him.

Can you help me in my baseball D&D;game? My cleric, named Cubs Trainer, keeps having double critical failures when he uses the heal skill, and it's killing my guys.
   360. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:18 AM (#2697174)
I treat each individual the same, based on their character.

I thought you treated each individual based on their passed balls allowed.
   361. Dan The Mediocre Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:19 AM (#2697175)
I thought you treated each individual based on their passed balls allowed.


For a guy who used homosexuality as an insult, he sure talked a lot about balls.
   362. rfloh Posted: February 22, 2008 at 06:48 AM (#2697183)

I like that they looked at what was unsatisfying and focused on making changes, there were sometimes that it was pretty useless to be a cleric or thief and going up a level.


That's what the splatbooks are for? I'm not sure I agree that it is useless to go up a level for a cleric or a rogue either. Your spells (cleric), your sneaks (rogue), getting more skillpoints to spend on your large number of skills (rogue), are tied to going up in level.
   363. Peoria Dave Posted: February 22, 2008 at 07:01 AM (#2697186)
You are white, piece of garbage... race police phonies of the first order.


Hold on now. Don't disrespect me like that. I graduated to second order just last month on my 3rd try.
   364. Peoria Dave Posted: February 22, 2008 at 07:53 AM (#2697199)
I'd suggest a bath with the toaster, but this has been like a classic usenet thread not seen since WebTV lost popularity.
That would be the most productive thing he's done in his life.
   365. The Bones McCoy of THT Posted: February 22, 2008 at 11:02 AM (#2697225)
Well ....

If we can get (talkin') tina and Rod Serling to post we can wrap up this bad boy and call it a day.

Picture if you will: a blog, a website, an online community and a lone interloper in an extended thread--however this is no ordinary thread. This thread is from The Twilight Zone!

Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo.

Best Regards

John
   366. baudib Posted: February 22, 2008 at 11:25 AM (#2697230)
Wow, someone dumber than Melendez and Lombardi.
   367. Nineto Lezcano needs to get his shit together (CW) Posted: February 23, 2008 at 01:24 AM (#2697741)
I like that they looked at what was unsatisfying and focused on making changes, there were sometimes that it was pretty useless to be a cleric or thief and going up a level.


As of Third Edition (and 3.5) it is never, ever, EVER useless to be a cleric. Check out the Character Optimization forum on forums.gleemax.com - sort of the number-crunching, sabermetric soulmates of the D&D;community. (Yes, even in D&D;there are people who think that numbers get in the way of enjoying the game. Who knew?) Clerics pwn - the only thing that pwns more is the Druid.
   368. Chris Dial Posted: February 23, 2008 at 03:19 AM (#2697795)
Clerics pwn - the only thing that pwns more is the Druid.

I remember when the Half-Orc PC (and that's what I learned PC to stand for before there were PCs to play on) came outin Dragon and we institued them. But by and large, I don't care for most changes to the game after the original ADnD.

I looked at NWN, but that's 3rd Edition, and I'm older school than that. Not sure I can make the change. I mean for me, the addition of cantrips were just starting to bog down in details, rather than the story (like encumbrance).
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