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Monday, August 31, 2009

The Baseball Analysts: Lederer: Team of the Decade?

Back in my hardcore scoundrelic days I once pulled a “Book-of-the-Decade Club” scamboozle…this is different.

Tomorrow not only marks the last month of the current season but the final month of the decade (except, of course, for the postseason in October).

As we wind down the first ten years of the 21st century, which clubs have the best shot of being crowned the “Team of the Decade?” While looking at anything in terms of decades is heavily influenced by the start and stop dates, it can still be a fun exercise nonetheless.

Although there are, at most, only a handful of candidates that can lay claim to the Team of the Decade, there is no clear-cut winner at this time. Interestingly, six World Series champions during the decade of 2000-2009 are in line to make the playoffs this season. As a result, there are five teams that could win a second World Series title and a sixth team that could win its third world championship.

If the Red Sox (2004 and 2007) win a third World Series title this October, then there will be no debate as to the Team of the Decade. However, if the New York Yankees (2000) or St. Louis Cardinals (2006) win the championship this year, then it would be difficult not to anoint the Yanks or Cards as the Team of the Decade.

A case could possibly be made on behalf of the Anaheim/Los Angeles Angels (2002) should the current AL West leader capture its second World Series title of the decade. At best, the Angels’ margin of victory would be ever so slim over the Red Sox if the Halos were to win it all this year.

Although the Philadelphia Phillies (2008) and Chicago White Sox (2005) could win a second championship this decade, it would be impossible for either club to leapfrog Boston for this honor as neither team would have as many wins or playoff appearances as the Red Sox.

Repoz Posted: August 31, 2009 at 06:06 PM | 142 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, sabermetrics

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   1. The importance of being Ernest Riles Posted: August 31, 2009 at 06:29 PM (#3309916)
As good as the Red Sox have been this decade - and their off-field TotD cred - I find it very hard to believe that a TotD could only win a single division title in ten tries.
   2. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: August 31, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3309922)
If kevin were here he'd correct you and tell you how they won two.
   3. SoSH U at work Posted: August 31, 2009 at 06:42 PM (#3309928)
Finished first twice (or 1.5 times). Won one division title.

As a Red Sox fan, I feel the absence of division titles really does limit their claim to TotD. They'd really need to win the WS again (or at the very least, reach it) this year to have a real ironclad grip on the meaningless distinction.
   4. Halofan Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:10 PM (#3309953)
I tried to bring up a discussion about "the decade" on my blog and cretins came out of the woodwork to insist that the decade began in 2001. After a few exchanges one guy insisted that 1980 was the final decade of the 1970s.
   5. phredbird Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:16 PM (#3309960)
i speak as a fanboy, but if the cards go all the way this year, or even just take the pennant, they are the team of the decade.
   6. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:17 PM (#3309962)
That one guy is correct. This decade doesn't end until 12/31/2010. I'm not gonna throw hands over this, but it's true.
   7. Famous Original Joe C Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:20 PM (#3309967)
i speak as a fanboy, but if the cards go all the way this year, or even just take the pennant, they are the team of the decade.

If they go all the way, sure. If they win the pennant but lose the World Series? No.
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:22 PM (#3309972)
That one guy is correct. This decade doesn't end until 12/31/2010. I'm not gonna throw hands over this, but it's true.


But only if you insist that your baseball decade must correspond with your mathematical one. But seeing as baseball playing didn't begin with Year 1, or any 1-ending year, there's really no point in insisting that the best of the 1980s or 2000s in baseball has to run from 01-10, other than stubborness.
   9. Jay Seaver Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:24 PM (#3309976)
Eh, the decades aren't enumerated like centuries are. 2000-2009 is as valid a definition for the aughts as 2001-2010, especially since "the first decade" being 1BC-9AD never comes up.
   10. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:25 PM (#3309977)
Yeah, there was no year "0", so decades properly count 1-10. 2000 was the last year of "the 90s" in technical terms. It's just that technical terms don't make a lot of sense with the random assignment of names. I tend to go with the technically incorrect but common sensical usage. "The 90s" were 1990-1999. "This decade" began in 2000. On a more dorky than the dork note, a decade is simply any grouping of ten so it doesn't really matter where you start counting. Just assume that the first year of the first decade CE was 1 BCE.

I'm pretty sure the Romans were the team of that decade.
   11. Mefisto Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:25 PM (#3309978)
But only if you insist that your baseball decade must correspond with your mathematical one.


I'm not sure what you mean by "mathematical one". The calendar decade ends, as GGC said, on 12/31/10. Any other decade is of course arbitrary, but the reference to "the" decade implies the calendar one.
   12. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:26 PM (#3309979)
I think the Mets should be the team of the decade because, in my professional opinion, this decade sucked.
   13. Walt Davis Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:31 PM (#3309992)
Unless I miscounted, the Yanks are gonna end up with about 960 regular season wins this decade. They've done it in what has been (rightly or wrongly) considered the toughest division and the toughest league of the decade. Add 1 WS and 2 AL pennants.

If the Red Sox win a 3rd WS then maybe ... but otherwise the team of the decade is the Yanks.
   14. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:31 PM (#3309993)
Any other decade is of course arbitrary, but the reference to "the" decade implies the calendar one.

I think you confuse "the calendar one" with "the pop culture one."
   15. Shredder Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:34 PM (#3310001)
I'm not sure what you mean by "mathematical one". The calendar decade ends, as GGC said, on 12/31/10. Any other decade is of course arbitrary, but the reference to "the" decade implies the calendar one.
No it doesn't. Calling the decade "the '90s" is not the same as referring to the 199th decade. "The '90s" began in 1990. The 199th decade began in 1991. The aughts began on January 1, 2000, while the 200th decade began on January 1, 2001.

We could literally be discussing any ten year period. Rich is clearly discussing the team of the aughts, not the team of the 200th decade. It's a fairly standard convention that we refer to decades by their tenths digits. Centuries go either way. You wouldn't say that the 1900s ended on December 31, 2000, even though that's when the 20th Century ended.
   16. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:36 PM (#3310007)
I had forgotten how good the Braves were until 2006.
   17. RJ in TO Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:39 PM (#3310014)
For some reason, this thread reminds me of the discussion about zip codes.
   18. Mefisto Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3310017)
No it doesn't. Calling the decade "the '90s" is not the same as referring to the 199th decade. "The '90s" began in 1990. The 199th decade began in 1991. The aughts began on January 1, 2000, while the 200th decade began on January 1, 2001.

We could literally be discussing any ten year period. Rich is clearly discussing the team of the aughts, not the team of the 200th decade.


I'd agree with this if he'd used the phrase "team of the Oughts" or whatever. He also referred to this current year as the "first of the 21st Century".

It isn't a big deal, but it struck me as odd phrasing.
   19. Mefisto Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:42 PM (#3310018)
Sorry, what he said was that this year ended "the first decade of the 21st Century".
   20. Smiling Joe Hesketh Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:42 PM (#3310020)
If the Red Sox win a 3rd WS then maybe ... but otherwise the team of the decade is the Yanks.

Do more divisional titles really make up for fewer World Series wins? It's hardly like the Sox were good for just the two years (so far) of their championships: they've regularly won plenty of regular season games as well. It strikes me as odd to label a team a Team of the Decade when there's another team that's 1) won games at close to the same rate as the Yankees all decade long, and 2) has more titles.

This is actually an honest question and not snark. These days one has to make that qualification. Sigh.
   21. Big Train Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:48 PM (#3310027)
well, if they don't win the WS, it would be 2 WS to 1, and everything else would lean toward the Yanks.

What if the Cards win, would they have a better claim? The Phils? Weren't the Phils receiving Revenue Sharing funds in this decade?
   22. The Yankee Clapper Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:49 PM (#3310028)
Do more divisional titles really make up for fewer World Series wins?

In Atlanta, apparently yes.
   23. A triple short of the cycle Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:51 PM (#3310032)
We could literally be discussing any ten year period.

Right. Isn't it equally significant (or equally insignificant) to be the best team of a consecutive 10-year period that does not happen to run from '00 to '09?

Why don't we analyze the best performances from, say, 1997-2006? Because no one cares? Then why do we care about 2000-2009?

EDIT: What SOSH said @ 8.
   24. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:52 PM (#3310036)
It strikes me as odd to label a team a Team of the Decade when there's another team that's 1) won games at close to the same rate as the Yankees all decade long, and 2) has more titles.


WS titles is all the Red Sox have over the Yankees. The Red Sox have 1 more world title. The Yankees have won 1 more pennant, 5 more division titles (not counting this year), 3 more playoff appearances (not counting this year), and won 37 more regular season games as of today. Seems to me that as of now, the Yankees body of work trumps the Red Sox.
   25. Obama Bomaye Posted: August 31, 2009 at 07:54 PM (#3310038)
Anyone who thinks 1980 is part of the 1970s is truly retarded.
   26. phredbird Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:01 PM (#3310046)
i speak as a fanboy, but if the cards go all the way this year, or even just take the pennant, they are the team of the decade.

If they go all the way, sure. If they win the pennant but lose the World Series? No.


ok, i agree with that, but it kinda depends on who they lose to if they lose the WS. if its either bos or nyy, then ya they aren't the team of the decade. otherwise its close. go cards.
   27. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:01 PM (#3310047)
Anyone who thinks 1980 is part of the 1970s is truly retarded.


Carter was still in charge. I was only 12 at the time but, IIRC, lapels were still wide.
   28. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:05 PM (#3310053)
If the Marlins don't win the World Series this year, this will be the longest drought in franchise history.
   29. sunnyday2 Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:06 PM (#3310055)
Yeah, I like decades that start with "0" and end with "9."

When I saw the headline I thought we were talking all-star team. Off the top:

C-IRod? Posada?
1B-Pujols
2B-Kent
SS-Pasta Diving
3B-ARod
LF-Bonds
CF-Berkman?
RF-Vlad
DH-Manny or Giambi
   30. Baldrick Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:08 PM (#3310059)
Then why do we care about 2000-2009?

Do you really not know why we care about 2000-2009 more than another random set of 10 years?
   31. salvomania Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:09 PM (#3310061)
Why not Beltran in CF?
   32. JJ1986 Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:12 PM (#3310068)
Manny's not a DH so it's kind of cheating to put him there.
   33. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: August 31, 2009 at 08:15 PM (#3310075)
In Atlanta, apparently yes.

Division titles were quite important until they started letting runners up compete in the post-season tournament and call themselves "champions."

And Atlanta would also like to have a word with you about the team of the decade third baseman too.
   34. esseff Posted: August 31, 2009 at 09:20 PM (#3310153)
Now, about those four-decade players . . .

::ducks::
   35. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: August 31, 2009 at 09:47 PM (#3310176)
For some reason, this thread reminds me of the discussion about zip codes.

Or of an argument about whether Italian women are hotter than Ethiopian women. (/ducks underneath a hail of bullets)
   36. Mr. J. Penny Smoltzuzaka Posted: August 31, 2009 at 09:49 PM (#3310180)
I'm pretty sure the Romans were the team of that decade.

I wouldn't be so sure about that - I'd make Germania at least an honorable mention based on Teutoburg Forest 9 A.D. Three of Rome's 28 total legions went in and none came back. It's been termed as the Roman Empire's greatest defeat.

Amongst noteworthy defeats of Evil Empires, Germania vs. Rome ranks right up there with 2004 Red Sox vs Yankees.
   37. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: August 31, 2009 at 09:55 PM (#3310187)
Now, about those four-decade players . . .


Who's eligible next year?

Moyer
Griffey
Big Unit
Vizquel
Smoltz


Anyone else?
   38. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: August 31, 2009 at 10:42 PM (#3310236)
well, the sixties started in 1963 and ended in 1972...


EDIT: perhaps I should say "The Sixties"
   39. WillYoung Posted: August 31, 2009 at 11:01 PM (#3310254)
Not to be too political, but I think the team of the decade has to be the Mets.

1) Mets started with optimism (WS in 2000, even if that wasn't in "this decade"), this was a new millenium
2) They floundered around for awhile
3) Wasted a ####-ton of money
4) Find a lot of their followers pointing fingers at everyone in charge
5) Picked fights with the wrong people (Adam Rubin, Iraq)
6) Got ripped off in a Ponzi scheme and watched their spending power completely crumble

How is that not exactly how we're going to remember this decade from a historical perspective?

Edit: I see that I basically just expanded upon Sam H's thesis
   40. Robinson Cano Plate Like Home Posted: August 31, 2009 at 11:11 PM (#3310265)
For what it's worth, the "There was no Year 0" argument is bogus. There was no "Year 1," either. The AD numbering started hundreds of years after the fact.

Put another way, there was as much a 0 A.D. as there was a 1 A.D., which is to say that neither was recognized as such when they happened, but we can easily point to them now. Which is all we (should) care about.
   41. AndrewJ Posted: August 31, 2009 at 11:15 PM (#3310270)
The 2000-09 decade has to be the best decade (going by decade as a 0-9 year proposition) in the history of the Phillies, at least since 1900. They're on track for their eighth winning season in ten (and in one of the other two years they finished 80-81) and appear bound for their third straight postseason appearance with a World Series win. The 1970-79 Phillies also had three straight division titles, but from 1970-73 they were pretty lousy...
   42. Hugh Jorgan Posted: August 31, 2009 at 11:34 PM (#3310288)
WS titles is all the Red Sox have over the Yankees. The Red Sox have 1 more world title. The Yankees have won 1 more pennant, 5 more division titles (not counting this year), 3 more playoff appearances (not counting this year), and won 37 more regular season games as of today. Seems to me that as of now, the Yankees body of work trumps the Red Sox.

Very true and your argument has merit and is well supported, however as a Sox fan at this point I would much rather have our 2 world series titles over your 1. As far as I am concerned if you aren't holding the trophy at the end, then you are a loser just like everyone else. But in saying that, yes NY has a better claim to this random distinction at this point.

As for the "decade" distinction, we all know the "correct" version, however as Sam pointed our sensibilities do lean towards staring with the '00 and finishing with the '09.
   43. Steve Treder Posted: August 31, 2009 at 11:51 PM (#3310293)
Is there anything -- I ask you, anything, anything at all -- in the entire world nerdier than baseball nerds arguing about the proper definition of decades on the internet?
   44. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: August 31, 2009 at 11:54 PM (#3310295)
Greedo shot first!
   45. cardsfanboy Posted: August 31, 2009 at 11:59 PM (#3310298)
well I think that right now the favorite has to be the Yankees, three World Series appearances, the most division titles and the most wins by a fair margin, the Red Sox only beat them if they win another World Series this year.

Heck I'm not sure I rate the Red Sox ahead of my own team, the Cardinals. If the Cardinals win the World Series I think they have an argument (unless they beat the Yankees--then I have to give it back to the Yankees) For the Cardinals to claim ahead of the Yankees though, they really have to finish this season with 97 or so wins.

I don't think that the Angels should enter this discussion to be honest,
   46. Lassus Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:06 AM (#3310304)
Is there anything -- I ask you, anything, anything at all -- in the entire world nerdier than baseball nerds arguing about the proper definition of decades on the internet?

You should see the fight about the vote about who wins in a battle between River Tam and Batman over on io9.

But, the answer to your question is still "no".
   47. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:07 AM (#3310305)
baseball nerds

Hey mate, who you calling a nerd? C'mon over here and I'll....well I'll bamboozle you with my extensive use of the queen's english!
   48. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:23 AM (#3310312)
How about sitcoms of the decade?

50's - Honeymooners
60's - Dick Van Dyke? Andy Griffith?
70's - MASH
80's - Cheers
90's - Seinfeld
00's - No clue
   49. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:25 AM (#3310313)
The 2000-09 decade has to be the best decade (going by decade as a 0-9 year proposition) in the history of the Phillies, at least since 1900. They're on track for their eighth winning season in ten (and in one of the other two years they finished 80-81)


If the White Sox can rebound and finish over .500, they will have eight out of ten, and one of the other two was 81-81. As a Sox fan, I've always thought that the Sox were the AL version of the Phillies, in that they usually suck and nobody except their fans cares about them, but their fans will kill you if you're an outsider who says they usually suck.
   50. Misirlou's got a busy day, he's wearing a vest Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:30 AM (#3310317)
In the 50's, the White Sox were over .500 9 of 10, with 1 pennant. In the teens they were only 7 of 10, but with 2 pennants and 1 title. In the original aughts, 9 of 10 with 1 title and a pre-WS pennant. These aughts face still competition.
   51. AndrewJ Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:50 AM (#3310327)
How about sitcoms of the decade?

50's - Honeymooners
60's - Dick Van Dyke? Andy Griffith?
70's - MASH
80's - Cheers
90's - Seinfeld
00's - No clue


I might choose Mary Tyler Moore over MASH for the 1970s and The Simpsons over Seinfeld in the 1990s. Otherwise, defensible selections.
   52. Kiko Sakata Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:52 AM (#3310328)
Is there anything -- I ask you, anything, anything at all -- in the entire world nerdier than baseball nerds arguing about the proper definition of decades on the internet?


Somebody must have missed the debate about whether ZIP Codes represent physical polygons.
   53. Daryn Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:06 AM (#3310342)
The Cosby Show was the sitcom of the 80s.
   54. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:07 AM (#3310343)
Moyer
Griffey
Big Unit
Vizquel
Smoltz


Anyone else?


Gordon
Sheffield

Did Kent Mercker retire or was he just not signed by anyone? What about Rudy Seanez?
   55. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:27 AM (#3310355)
The Cosby Show was the sitcom of the 80s.

And by ratings Friends was the sitcom of the 90s. Scrubs probably holds the title for the 00s.
   56. Lassus Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:50 AM (#3310374)
BTF is starting to make me hate television.
   57. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:52 AM (#3310377)
Scrubs probably holds the title for the 00s.

Scrubs is good, but nothing can touch South Park for the 00's...nothing.
   58. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:54 AM (#3310379)
Incidentally, I once watched a truly epic flamewar on alt.folklore.urban which involved one person insisting that the only valid definition of "The Sixties" went from 1963 to, I think, 1971. There was a similarly idiosyncratic definition for the other decades.

The Sixties began on Feburary 1, 1960, with the first Greensboro sit-in, and ended on the day in December, 1972, when the last draftee was sworn into the Army. That sit-in got the ball rolling, and the end of the draft stopped it.
   59. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:54 AM (#3310380)
Unless you want to throw South Park into the 90's...was its run long enough there to be considered?

Looks it up on google....no, it started in 1997.
   60. Benji Gil Gamesh is not being paid to be that guy Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:03 AM (#3310385)
And by ratings Friends was the sitcom of the 90s.


Are you going by some official numbers? Because eyeballing the #s on Wikipedia they look comparable, especially when some of Friends' big numbers came in the final seasons from 2000-2004.
   61. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:08 AM (#3310388)
Are you going by some official numbers?

Of course we are, we are baseball nerds after all! Actually I didn't consider ratings when I threw South Park out there for the 00's. I just think its better than Scrubs, and would imagine some sympathy amongst the posters here.
   62. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:26 AM (#3310392)
50's - Honeymooners
60's - Dick Van Dyke? Andy Griffith?
70's - MASH
80's - Cheers
90's - Seinfeld
00's - No clue


For this decade I would say Everybody Loves Raymond by popularity, by quality I would go with Arrested Development or 30 Rock. Add Sex and the City and Entourage for HBO shows.
   63. pkb33 Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:27 AM (#3310393)
well, if they don't win the WS, it would be 2 WS to 1, and everything else would lean toward the Yanks.

But, winning more world series and being close in the rest still seems like a win to me. Otherwise, you get the "Buffalo Bills team of the decade" problem. If you have teams equal in titles, the other stuff clearly breaks the tie, though.
   64. Downtown Bookie Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:29 AM (#3310394)
How about sitcoms of the decade?

50's - Honeymooners
60's - Dick Van Dyke? Andy Griffith?
70's - MASH
80's - Cheers
90's - Seinfeld
00's - No clue


"Honeymooners" was very high peak, no career length, as it was only one season (39 episiodes) as a sitcom. "I Love Lucy" would no doubt be the popular choice for the 50's, but personally I would prefer "You'll Never Get Rich" (a.k.a. "The Phil Silvers Show").

DB
   65. Loves to Face Premium Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:34 AM (#3310396)
I love this discussion because people are getting heated over something they've probably never even thought about before they saw this post. Let me add some fuel to fire:

Red Sox Fans,
Doesn't it just grind your nads that even with all of the great things that have happened to your club this decade, Theo, the farm system, Monster seats, bloody sock, beating the curse, etc. that the Yanks are right there for TOtD? I mean, this is supposed to be your decade, no? A WS win this year for the Yanks makes it sort of hard to argue that things have changed at all.

Yanks for TotD!!1!
   66. Sweatpants Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:40 AM (#3310400)
1900-1909: Cubs
1910-1919: Red Sox
1920-1929: Yankees
1930-1939: Yankees
1940-1949: Yankees
1950-1959: Yankees
1960-1969: Cardinals
1970-1979: Reds
1980-1989: Dodgers?
1990-1999: Yankees
2000-2009: Yankees as of right now

I had to look up the Cards' records for the sixties. They had only one losing record in the period, that in 1965. The Yankees won each of the first five pennants, but then everything went to pot in the next five seasons.

Like the Yankees in the 1960s, the A's in the 1970s were a dominant force - for part of the decade.

The 1980s don't really have a team. The Dodgers were the only ones with more than one World Series victory, and they made the playoffs four times and missed them once when they lost a one-game playoff.

If the Braves had won either of the World Series against the Twins or the Blue Jays, or if they had won it in 1993, or if they had won it in 1997, I'd have picked them. The Yankees could have kept their two victories over the Braves and their 3-2 edge in championships won, and I'd have given it to the Braves because of their excellence throughout the period. A 3-1 edge, though, is too great to overlook.

I can overlook the Red Sox's (Sox'?) edge in championships because it's only by one, and the Yankees, like the '90s Braves, have made the playoffs every year in this period save for one. Although Boston has performed better in the postseason, it missed the playoffs in 2000, 2001, 2002, and 2006, and it missed them in large part because of the Yankees.

The weakest of these is either the 1980s Dodgers or the 2000s Yankees. I don't have a problem with my selection of the Dodgers, but the Yankees-over-Red Sox selection for the current ten-year period is certainly debatable.
   67. Sweatpants Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:44 AM (#3310401)
A WS win this year for the Yanks makes it sort of hard to argue that things have changed at all.


The team won two World Series in a span of four seasons. They're right there with the Yankees. Things have absolutely changed.
   68. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:50 AM (#3310403)
Red Sox Fans,
Doesn't it just grind your nads that even with all of the great things that have happened to your club this decade, Theo, the farm system, Monster seats, bloody sock, beating the curse, etc. that the Yanks are right there for TOtD? I mean, this is supposed to be your decade, no? A WS win this year for the Yanks makes it sort of hard to argue that things have changed at all.


Um, no, not in the slightest. And as Sweatpants notes, this was really a decade without a truly dominant team like other 10-year stretches (which is likely to continue to happen going forward in the age of expanded playoffs).
   69. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:51 AM (#3310404)
Red Sox Fans,
Doesn't it just grind your nads that even with all of the great things that have happened to your club this decade, Theo, the farm system, Monster seats, bloody sock, beating the curse, etc. that the Yanks are right there for TOtD? I mean, this is supposed to be your decade, no?


Not really, no. 2004 and 2007 were just glorious and if we can get another one in 2009, then I'd be thinking, hey look we won 3 titles in 6 years....pretty effing cool. Big spending teams will always manage to buy 90 or so wins a year(barring injuries Mets fans), so I don't put much stock in that. Winning championships and going deep in the playoffs are all that really matters IMHO.
   70. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:51 AM (#3310405)
Here's a fun fact I noticed when I was looking at these Teams of the Decades: From 1936 to the advent of divisional play in 1969, the Yankees finished in first place 22 times - but finished second only once.
   71. Steve Treder Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:14 AM (#3310415)
Here's a fun fact I noticed when I was looking at these Teams of the Decades: From 1936 to the advent of divisional play in 1969, the Yankees finished in first place 22 times - but finished second only once.

Yeah, and of course in many of those pennant-winning seasons the Yankees ran away with it; they were just clearly the dominant team in the league. But the maddening issue for their competitors was that in the many other seasons in which the Yankees weren't clearly the dominant team in the league, in which the pennant was a close call, in which two or even three teams could have viably taken it, the Yankees took it, every time. Every time. No exceptions, over a 30-something-year period.

Very, very remarkable.
   72. LargeBill Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:17 AM (#3310418)
Do ya count zero to nine? Or do you count one to ten? 2000 was the last year of the 20th century.

Yankees have been steady this decade (which has a season and a month or so to go). However, they have zero championships this decade or century (same as the Indians or Orioles). If they win the WS this year and next then they have a clear claim on the TotD. Otherwise they aren't in the conversation. If the Red Sox win their third of this decade this season or next then it is no doubt they are the TotD. If The Yankees don't win both years or the Red Sox don't win either year the the title is up for grabs. The Cardinals, Angels, and a couple other teams could have a strong finish and make an argument.
   73. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:31 AM (#3310427)
Here's a fun fact I noticed when I was looking at these Teams of the Decades: From 1936 to the advent of divisional play in 1969, the Yankees finished in first place 22 times - but finished second only once.


But the maddening issue for their competitors was that in the many other seasons in which the Yankees weren't clearly the dominant team in the league, in which the pennant was a close call, in which two or even three teams could have viably taken it, the Yankees took it, every time. Every time. No exceptions, over a 30-something-year period.

Very, very remarkable.


Indeed. And from the advent of divisional play, the Yankees have finished second by five or less games three times, and won their division by that margin eight times.

Tiger Woods has always said that in this respect, the Yankees were his role model. (smile)
   74. Lassus Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:48 AM (#3310437)
Tiger Woods has always said that in this respect, the Yankees were his role model.

In seeming about as fun as a railroad spike, he's succeeded, then. And yet, even HE has a sense of humor. He needs to tighten up. ;-)
   75. Sweatpants Posted: September 01, 2009 at 04:39 AM (#3310465)
But the maddening issue for their competitors was that in the many other seasons in which the Yankees weren't clearly the dominant team in the league, in which the pennant was a close call, in which two or even three teams could have viably taken it, the Yankees took it, every time. Every time. No exceptions, over a 30-something-year period.


I might not remember this correctly, but I think that New York finished a close second in 1935 (yes, I know that the original comment mentioned 1936-1969) and a close third in both 1940 and 1948.

Edit:
3 back in 1935.
3 back in 1940.
2.5 back in 1948.
   76. A triple short of the cycle Posted: September 01, 2009 at 04:42 AM (#3310468)
Do you really not know why we care about 2000-2009 more than another random set of 10 years?

I really do not. Tell me why this particular 10-year period is more significant than 1999-2008, 1998- 2007, etc.
   77. Greg Pope Posted: September 01, 2009 at 04:46 AM (#3310473)
Do ya count zero to nine? Or do you count one to ten? 2000 was the last year of the 20th century.

I'm a programmer. I absolutely count 0 to 9.

As has been said, a decade is arbitrary, and if you want to call a decade "the 1980's" then you have a nice easy set of 10 years that conveniently start with 198_. It makes no sense to do anything else.
   78. Steve Treder Posted: September 01, 2009 at 04:50 AM (#3310481)
I might not remember this correctly, but I think that New York finished a close second in 1935 (yes, I know that the original comment mentioned 1936-1969) and a close third in both 1940 and 1948.

Yeah, fair enough. I overstated; both 1940 and 1948 would fairly qualify as seasons in which the Yankees were a viable close contender, and failed to grab the flag. And I suppose 1954 could be construed as such as well, but it would take some persuading to get me there.

But the larger point stands tall: there were many seasons in which the Yankees could quite reasonably have finished a close second or third, but they won the damn flag instead. I'd submit 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1962, and 1964.
   79. A triple short of the cycle Posted: September 01, 2009 at 04:50 AM (#3310482)
I count 6 to 5!
   80. Hugh Jorgan Posted: September 01, 2009 at 05:27 AM (#3310519)
However, they have zero championships this decade or century (same as the Indians or Orioles).

and Pirates and Royals! What a group to belong to!

As a Red Sox fan and because of the very wise statement above, I know think decades should go from xx01-xx00.
   81. Sweatpants Posted: September 01, 2009 at 05:28 AM (#3310520)
So we are in the 21st decade?
   82. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: September 01, 2009 at 07:01 AM (#3310573)
Who's The Worst Team of The Decade?

The Royals or Pirates?
   83. jwb Posted: September 01, 2009 at 07:41 AM (#3310587)
Did Kent Mercker retire or was he just not signed by anyone? What about Rudy Seanez?
Mercker wasn't signed, I haven't read that he's retired. Seanez spent two months in Salt Lake City (and 9 innings - I suspect an injury was involved, but I don't track most MiLB injuries) and was released.
   84. Flynn Posted: September 01, 2009 at 09:37 AM (#3310591)
I might not remember this correctly, but I think that New York finished a close second in 1935 (yes, I know that the original comment mentioned 1936-1969) and a close third in both 1940 and 1948.

Edit:
3 back in 1935.
3 back in 1940.
2.5 back in 1948.


In 1935 they were eliminated with six games to play and were 10 games back on September 7th. They just had their best month of the season in September to make it look close. I'd argue it would be a little generous to call 1940 a Yankee pennant race as well - they were 4.5 back with 9 to play and never spent a day of the season in first place. It's a pennant race in the sense they were there and could have conceivably won it, but they were always a little bit behind the Tigers and Indians because at no point after September 2nd were they above 3rd place.

1948 is a legit pennant race, although there is a strangeness to it in that the Yankees were never in first place alone at any point in the season.

The only other example in the dynasty era was 1924, where they did get in a knockdown fistfight with the Nationals, who only clinched on the last day of the season, though they had spent most of September in first place.

So really what history tells us is even more amazing: At no point in the Dynasty era did the Yankees blow a pennant. They either won, had seasons where another team ran away with it, or had "pennant races" where they were not really up to the challenge. There was no season where people sat around in October and talked about how the Yankees blew it.
   85. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: September 01, 2009 at 10:53 AM (#3310595)
I might not remember this correctly, but I think that New York finished a close second in 1935 (yes, I know that the original comment mentioned 1936-1969) and a close third in both 1940 and 1948.


Yeah, fair enough. I overstated; both 1940 and 1948 would fairly qualify as seasons in which the Yankees were a viable close contender, and failed to grab the flag. And I suppose 1954 could be construed as such as well, but it would take some persuading to get me there.

Not really. That year the Yanks were in first place for about three hours in between games of a doubleheader in mid-July, and even though they made it close through the end of August, they were effectively eliminated by September 12 when the Indians swept them in a doubleheader and knocked them 8 1/2 games behind.

But the larger point stands tall: there were many seasons in which the Yankees could quite reasonably have finished a close second or third, but they won the damn flag instead. I'd submit 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1955, 1962, and 1964.

In 1960 they were tied with the Orioles on September 14th, and then won their last 15 games to pull away. But after the Labor Day weekend they were 2 games behind and actually being written off in some quarters.

In 1961 they'd been nip and tuck with Detroit all year, usually only a game or two ahead, and were only a game and a half ahead when the Tigers came into the Stadium on September 1st. But then the Yanks swept that series and won 13 straight while the Tigers were losing 8 in a row. In both of these years you had a white hot pennant race for many months, and then the other team blinked. And it could have gone either way in both cases.
   86. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: September 01, 2009 at 12:56 PM (#3310627)
TV Show of the century is Deadwood.
   87. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:06 PM (#3310636)
If the Braves had won either of the World Series against the Twins or the Blue Jays, or if they had won it in 1993, or if they had won it in 1997, I'd have picked them. The Yankees could have kept their two victories over the Braves and their 3-2 edge in championships won, and I'd have given it to the Braves because of their excellence throughout the period. A 3-1 edge, though, is too great to overlook.

3-1 WS advantage or not, I have a hard time assigning "team of the decade" honors to a team that didn't make the playoffs until 1995 and had to squeak in with the wild card then.
   88. whoisalhedges Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:08 PM (#3310638)
1900-1909: Cubs
1910-1919: Red Sox
1920-1929: Yankees
1930-1939: Yankees
1940-1949: Yankees
1950-1959: Yankees
1960-1969: Cardinals
1970-1979: Reds
1980-1989: Dodgers?
1990-1999: Yankees
2000-2009: Yankees as of right now

...

The weakest of these is either the 1980s Dodgers or the 2000s Yankees. I don't have a problem with my selection of the Dodgers, but the Yankees-over-Red Sox selection for the current ten-year period is certainly debatable.

I'd go with Oakland in the '80s.

True, they had a period (after Martin shredded his starters' arms) of suck, but Billyball sure started the decade off with a bang; and LaRussa made one hell of a team -- as good, if not better, than the early '70s dynasty -- in the last few years of the decade.

I know, they had 5 consecutive losing seasons (but the Dodgers had 4 in 6 years), but their peak was much higher than the Dodgers' (despite '88).
   89. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: September 01, 2009 at 01:14 PM (#3310648)
If the Braves had won either of the World Series against the Twins or the Blue Jays, or if they had won it in 1993, or if they had won it in 1997, I'd have picked them. The Yankees could have kept their two victories over the Braves and their 3-2 edge in championships won, and I'd have given it to the Braves because of their excellence throughout the period. A 3-1 edge, though, is too great to overlook.


3-1 WS advantage or not, I have a hard time assigning "team of the decade" honors to a team that didn't make the playoffs until 1995 and had to squeak in with the wild card then.

Well, Sam, how's about if we just say that the Braves were the Confederacy's Team of the Decade and leave it at that?
   90. SoSH U at work Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:11 PM (#3310708)
I'd go with Oakland in the '80s.


If forced, I'd pick Whitey's Cards, for reaching a WS in the early, middle and later years of the decade.

In reality, the 80s were most accurately defined by the fact there was no team of the decade.
   91. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:35 PM (#3310736)
Well, Sam, how's about if we just say that the Braves were the Confederacy's Team of the Decade and leave it at that?

I think we can safely say the Braves were baseball's Team of the Decade. The Yankees might have been the team of the decade in whatever sport it is they play in AL parks.
   92. SoSH U at work Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:38 PM (#3310739)
The Yankees might have been the team of the decade in whatever sport it is they play in AL parks.


In October, I think they call that Brave bashing, but I'd have to check with Minnesota and Toronto to be sure. (Gosh, how pathetic was Cleveland?)
   93. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:56 PM (#3310756)
In October, I think they call that Brave bashing

That's cute. Call me when any team in either the baseball or professional softball league does anything remotely as impressive as 14 straight.

Also, honest calculations give the Braves 2.5 WS trophies for the 90s. They win the '91 series if the Twins don't turn the fans around while they're at bat in the Metrodome. They split the '96 title due to umpire interference on a routine fly ball that gave the Yankees game five of that series.
   94. SoSH U at work Posted: September 01, 2009 at 02:59 PM (#3310760)
That's cute. Call me when any team in either the baseball or professional softball league does anything remotely as impressive as 14 straight.


Call me when the Braves have done it, as long as we're doing honest calucations.
   95. Sam Hutcheson is the Rickey Henderson of... Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:01 PM (#3310762)
Call me when the Braves have done it, as long as we're doing honest calucations.

Please list for me the divisional champions of the NL West, 1991-93 and the NL East 1994-2005. Thx!
   96. SoSH U at work Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:04 PM (#3310766)
Please list for me the divisional champions of the NL West, 1991-93 and the NL East 1994-2005. Thx!


Go to DeludedFanboyReference.com (I know you spend a lot of time there). If you click on the page that lists the Braves' title in 1991 and co-world series victory in 1996, you'll find a link to the Expos' 1994 division championship. You can't miss it.
   97. RB in NYC (Now with New iPhone!) Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:05 PM (#3310773)
I have a hard time assigning "team of the decade" honors to a team that didn't make the playoffs until 1995 and had to squeak in with the wild card then.
Well, it's good that even having a hard time doing the assigning, you have correctly awaraded it to the Yankees.

In no small part because claiming they didn't make the playoffs until 1995 ignores their incredibly strong 1994 team.
   98. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:12 PM (#3310783)
3-1 WS advantage or not, I have a hard time assigning "team of the decade" honors to a team that didn't make the playoffs until 1995 and had to squeak in with the wild card then.

The post-1995 accomplishments can't be that easily ignored.
   99. The Yankee Clapper Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:15 PM (#3310787)
Also, honest calculations give the Braves 2.5 WS trophies for the 90s.

Is this what they mean by "fantasy baseball"?
   100. Randy Jones Posted: September 01, 2009 at 03:18 PM (#3310791)
SoSH, RB, and The Yankee Clapper ought to heed the advice of the Wu-Tang Clan.
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