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Friday, October 25, 2013

The baseball fans really are different in St. Louis. | SportsonEarth.com : Howard Megdal Article

I have no problem accepting the idea Cardinals fans may be the most loyal and nicest fans in baseball. I just hope they are the ones dealing with disappointment when this World Series is over.

Jim Furtado Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:43 AM | 127 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: best fans in baseball, cardinals, red sox, world series

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   1. Joey B. "disrespects the A" Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:15 AM (#4583262)
I have no problem accepting the idea Cardinals fans may be the most loyal and nicest fans in baseball.

This should have been exposed for the B.S. that it is for all time when they showed that woman holding up the giant "ALBERT WHO?" sign during the playoffs last year. They're no different from the fans anywhere else, so enough with this nonsense already.
   2. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:19 AM (#4583266)
I'll believe they are truly the BFIB when the team sucks for 3-4 years in a row. Blues fans were supposedly great fans til they gutted that team, and for one year at least, their arena was empty.
   3. AROM Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:24 AM (#4583271)
Any fan base that feels the need to talk about how special they are has provided enough evidence to disqualify them from the best fans in baseball.

I'd take a drunk, homicidal maniac, 7th inning exiting, Dodger fan over these holier than thou St. Louis fans. Dangerous yes, but at least I don't have to put up with a condescending attitude. The only thing St Louis has going for them is that they aren't Red Sox fans.
   4. JE (Jason) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4583273)
Any fan base that feels the need to talk about how special they are has provided enough evidence to disqualify them from the best fans in baseball.

OK, but Howard is a Mets fan.

Which reminds me: "Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."
   5. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:28 AM (#4583274)
I have no problem accepting the idea Cardinals fans may be the most loyal and nicest fans in baseball.

Oh, they are that. That's why they suck.
   6. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:39 AM (#4583282)
It's easy to be loyal and pack the stadium when the competing entertainment dollars are going to the Rams, Blues and Illini football.
   7. AROM Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:42 AM (#4583286)
"Any man who must say 'I am the king' is no true king."


True, but the man who says "I am the lizard king" can do anything.
   8. GuyM Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:59 AM (#4583306)
The only thing St Louis has going for them is that they aren't Red Sox fans.

Say, you aren't by any chance bitter about paying $240M for Pujols' decline, while we used your draft pick to get Wacha? No, I'm sure that's not it....
   9. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:06 AM (#4583313)
this BFIB stuff has been invented/pushed by both national and local media and is just a trick to get clicks/eyeballs

for the past 30+ years, the cards have been drawing fans well (except for the strike years 81, 94, 95) and have been usually 3 of 14/16 teams in total attendance - good year, bad year, great year. and there were so many cards fans before teams came to texas or anywheres else in the south or west.

we always had a lot of cards fans come to games at the Box and every one of em i met were nice folks - not jerks at all.

the BFIB stuff is like the redsox "nation" pink hats stuff.



   10. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:12 AM (#4583318)
Say, you aren't by any chance bitter about paying $240M for Pujols' decline, while we used your draft pick to get Wacha?


This is the sort of #### that makes people despise "the best fans in baseball." The Cardinals did not decline Pujols' services because they were super smart and knew they'd get a Wacha-type prospect with the compensatory pick. They were outbid by a few million dollars. If Art Moreno didn't have limitless pockets and wasn't involved in a "buy the LA market" war with the Dodgers the Cardinals would be saddled with Pujols. They bid over $200 million for him.

They weren't smarter than the Angels. They weren't better than the Angels. They got lucky that the Angels bid a few mil above their massive offer.
   11. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:12 AM (#4583319)
for the past 30+ years, the cards have been drawing fans well (except for the strike years 81, 94, 95) and have been usually 3 of 14/16 teams in total attendance - good year, bad year, great year.


What bad years? The team has lost 90 games once since I've been alive, and they went 70-92. If that happend in KC, we'd give the GM a contract extension.

The franchise has had back-to-back losing seasons just once since 1959 - the 1994-1995 season you mention when attendance did sag.

Like I said, endure a 3-4 season dry spell of 90 loss seasons and let's see how they pack Busch Stadium.
   12. Alex meets the threshold for granular review Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:16 AM (#4583328)
Oh yippie another one of these threads.
   13. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:25 AM (#4583341)
I have to credit Howard, he attempted to write an excellent and fair article(and succeeded) but nobody is going to hear any of it, because all the close minded people have already made up their minds. Trying to talk to the haters is equivalent to trying to explain evolution to a Texan. It's not going to happen. (It's sad that so many on here are the equal to religious bigots, but #### them)
   14. AROM Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:28 AM (#4583342)
They weren't smarter than the Angels. They weren't better than the Angels. They got lucky that the Angels bid a few mil above their massive offer.


Maybe on the Pujols deal. Other than that, there is plenty of evidence that the Cardinals make smarter decisions than the Angels.

I don't know the how accurate any of the reporting was, but I remember when they traded Napoli for Wells there was an article saying that the Mets had offered Beltran (in the last year of his deal) for the same package. Angels turned it down because they wanted 4 years of Wells.

I'm not bitter about Pujols/Wacha. In fact, I'd greatly prefer a Cardinals WS win to a Red Sox WS win, but that's just a result of having poor options. I was really hoping the Pirates would be the Cardinals and make it here.
   15. bigglou115 Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4583357)
#13 I agree it's a very fair piece, and I think he's even likely correct. The Cardinals are hugely important to people in STL, and in general I haven't run into too many people from STL who were any more insufferable than a fan of any other team that isn't my own.

That said, I think the real problem is Cardinal fans outside of STL. I'm in LR Arkansas, were the Cards AA affiliate was the only baseball within 3 hours since my grandparents were born. The Cards fan here are, on average, much much worse than other fans. There's a ton of arrogant, "the Cardinals wouldn't have made that mistake." And a ton of almost reflexive "best fans in baseball" rhetoric. It's like, to make up for the fact that they aren't in the city, and this likely perceived to be lesser fans than people in STL, or they may even be called bandwagon fans, they ramp these things up in order to more closely identify themselves with the fanbase. If this holds true in other places, I suspect it's the root of the disconnect.
   16. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:43 AM (#4583358)
RR

well, youneverknow - the team hasn't been absolutely TERRIBLE with absolutely no hope for years because they have a good owner and good GM. who knows what would happen if the owner suddenly decided (like drayton mclane) to run the team his own self, or you got an owner like crane, who put yall in the DH league while only playing AAAA guys and explaining that sometime in the distant future, you might could see all these great prospeects suddenly get right together and have a few good years before you sell them off for new prospects

i never thought the astros would turn into what they did - and those of us i know who HAVE left did it because of the stupid DH league
   17. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:47 AM (#4583364)
cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:25 AM (#4583341)

I have to credit Howard, he attempted to write an excellent and fair article(and succeeded) but nobody is going to hear any of it, because all the close minded people have already made up their minds. Trying to talk to the haters is equivalent to trying to explain evolution to a Texan


speaking of close minded

i don't suppose you can help being a bigot but i sure would appreciate your keeping your offensive stereotyping to your self

thank you
   18. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4583367)
i never thought the astros would turn into what they did - and those of us i know who HAVE left did it because of the stupid DH league

Lisa, just out of curiosity, when the Astros were in the World Series, did you only watch the games in Houston?
   19. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:50 AM (#4583369)
I don't know the how accurate any of the reporting was, but I remember when they traded Napoli for Wells there was an article saying that the Mets had offered Beltran (in the last year of his deal) for the same package. Angels turned it down because they wanted 4 years of Wells.

I also don't know how accurate the reporting is, but if the reports of Moreno making player personnel decisions are true, then their occasionally crappy decision making is likely to continue no matter who is the GM. Angels seem to have drafted pretty well -- Trout, Trumbo, Weaver, Bourjos, Kendrick, Napoli, Glaus, Salmon -- and signed pretty good amateur FA from Latin America -- Aybar, Callaspo, Santana, Rodriguez. Their FA signings have sometimes been good -- Guerrero, Colon, Wilson. But then they also do weird things like signing Hamilton rather than Greinke, trading Napoli for Wells and replacing Haren and Santana with Hanson and Blanton. I can't criticize signing an all-time Top 25 player like Pujols to a giant contract. Signing all-time greats as FA is usually good -- Bonds, Johnson, Clemens, Maddux, A-Rod I, etc., but occasionally blows up like Griffey and A-Rod II.
   20. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:52 AM (#4583371)
i don't suppose you can help being a bigot but i sure would appreciate your keeping your offensive stereotyping to your self


Sorry Lisa, it was a quick off the cuff remark. Generalizations aren't fair and I apologize.

   21. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:56 AM (#4583377)
That said, I think the real problem is Cardinal fans outside of STL


No, I think its St. Louis. I have long said that what I do admire St. Louis has, and I wish KC had more of, is civic pride. People in St. Louis, even in the suburbs, associate themselves with the city, even as the city proper has slid into tough times in the past, whereas in KC we have a fragmented metro exacerbated by a state line. I think St. Louisians have great pride in their city - in the Arch, in the zoo, in Forrest Park, and in their Cardinals. Which is great. Just don't be shocked when the rest of us get a bit weary of the chest-thumping.

   22. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:02 PM (#4583388)
Maybe on the Pujols deal. Other than that, there is plenty of evidence that the Cardinals make smarter decisions than the Angels.


That's a fair point. But I'm not saying the Angels are smart, per se. I'm saying the revisionism required to crow about how the Cardinals were willing to let Albert Pujols walk because they're so smart and new they'd get a super stud prospect such as Wacha in the compensation draft. The Cardinals offered Albert Pujols $220 million over 10 years. The only reason Albert Pujols is not weighing down the Cards this year is because Moreno offered a little more. It's not like the Cards made a qualifying offer and walked away intent on getting Wacha instead.
   23. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM (#4583393)
Sorry Lisa, it was a quick off the cuff remark. Generalizations aren't fair and I apologize.


If only Texas' congressional delegation (which presumably wasn't elected by non-Texans) didn't exist & didn't make your remarks seem like, if anything, off-the-chart praise ...

Though perhaps the alleged bigotry was baseball-related, rather than state-related. Hard to tell from here.
   24. RMc is a fine piece of cheese Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:06 PM (#4583395)
I'll believe they are truly the BFIB when the team sucks for 3-4 years in a row.


Fun fact: The last time the Cardinals had three consecutive losing seasons was 1954-56.

The last time they had four in a row was over a century ago.
   25. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:10 PM (#4583403)
That's a fair point. But I'm not saying the Angels are smart, per se. I'm saying the revisionism required to crow about how the Cardinals were willing to let Albert Pujols walk because they're so smart and new they'd get a super stud prospect such as Wacha in the compensation draft. The Cardinals offered Albert Pujols $220 million over 10 years. The only reason Albert Pujols is not weighing down the Cards this year is because Moreno offered a little more. It's not like the Cards made a qualifying offer and walked away intent on getting Wacha instead.


But it's not revisionism... The Cardinals pretty much said up front "this is the maximum we will go for Pujols, and it's over what he is worth, but because of his history with the team, it's valuable to us to keep him." and stuck to that concept. While the Angels went way over what he was worth to the Cardinals(which EVERYONE knew was more than what he is worth to another team) and signed him anyway. Tacked on a 10 year personal service clause on top of it, which is going to bite them in the ass and I'm willing to bet the Cardinals will bail them out on that particular clause to an extent...(You will see a retired Albert in a Cardinal uniform before you see him in an Angel uniform...heck you might see Albert in a Cardinal uniform before the contract ends)

No one is saying the Cardinals don't make mistakes (Tino Martinez) just that they have a tendency to trust their organization first, keep the mistakes to a minimum(I.E. not sign a boatload of free agents in one off season and sign them to reasonable contracts) it's just that when they do make moves like this, they have contingency plans if necessary.
   26. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:15 PM (#4583408)
No, I think its St. Louis. I have long said that what I do admire St. Louis has, and I wish KC had more of, is civic pride. People in St. Louis, even in the suburbs, associate themselves with the city, even as the city proper has slid into tough times in the past, whereas in KC we have a fragmented metro exacerbated by a state line. I think St. Louisians have great pride in their city - in the Arch, in the zoo, in Forrest Park, and in their Cardinals. Which is great. Just don't be shocked when the rest of us get a bit weary of the chest-thumping.

Our metro area is partly in Illinois, but we've just disowned that part. OTOH I basically do agree that Cardinal fans are "better" than fans in other places I've lived -- San Francisco, Oakland, New York, Los Angeles. There isn't the negativity nor frontrunning nor "we're too cool/busy to care about baseball" attitude that I found in other places. I was here in the 1970s when the team wasn't very good -- they sometimes finished over .500 and sometimes not, but the Phillies and Pirates dominated the NL East, and fans were still very supportive. I never heard any gloom and doom, nor very much overreaction that the best player (Simmons) was to blame for everything. It was jarring to move to San Francisco and learn that the Giants were doomed to be crappy, that Jack Clark sucked because he wasn't Willie Mays and that the team only drew 10K/game. A's fans weren't as whiny but they had an inferiority complex and still do in many cases. New York was very much a front-running place where the Mets were golden and the Yankees were invisible in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Mets fans had a bizarre love/hate relationship with Darryl Strawberry despite their successes. Dodger fans in the early 1908s were pretty good, except for the leave in the 7th inning thing. Angels fans were also pretty good, but weren't as engaged as Cardinal fans. But neither the Dodgers nor the Angels were as important to the Southland as the Cardinals were in St Louis despite the Dodgers being a much better team then. St Louis fans were always very supportive without the whining, the name calling and all the other crap that I found elsewhere.

But it's not revisionism... The Cardinals pretty much said up front "this is the maximum we will go for Pujols, and it's over what he is worth, but because of his history with the team, it's valuable to us to keep him." and stuck to that concept. While the Angels went way over what he was worth to the Cardinals(which EVERYONE knew was more than what he is worth to another team) and signed him anyway. Tacked on a 10 year personal service clause on top of it, which is going to bite them in the ass and I'm willing to bet the Cardinals will bail them out on that particular clause to an extent...(You will see a retired Albert in a Cardinal uniform before you see him in an Angel uniform...heck you might see Albert in a Cardinal uniform before the contract ends)

It is revisionism in the sense that if Albert had taken the Cardinal offer, they would have been worse off than they are now.
   27. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:23 PM (#4583419)
That said, I think the real problem is Cardinal fans outside of STL. I'm in LR Arkansas, were the Cards AA affiliate was the only baseball within 3 hours since my grandparents were born. The Cards fan here are, on average, much much worse than other fans. There's a ton of arrogant, "the Cardinals wouldn't have made that mistake." And a ton of almost reflexive "best fans in baseball" rhetoric. It's like, to make up for the fact that they aren't in the city, and this likely perceived to be lesser fans than people in STL, or they may even be called bandwagon fans, they ramp these things up in order to more closely identify themselves with the fanbase. If this holds true in other places, I suspect it's the root of the disconnect.


Dunno. More than 99 percent of the Travs game I saw (the first several of which would've been in Shreveport, when I was a kid & lived about an hour from there) were when they were a St. Louis affiliate -- the Angels switch didn't come till my final year in LR, & I can't recall if I caught any games that season or not -- but I don't remember any of that ... maybe because almost my entire time in LR was spent in the Democrat(-Gazette) newsroom, where the people who were baseball fans tended to come from all over.

(Never was a particular fan of the Cards myself, but also never disliked them.)
   28. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:27 PM (#4583426)
There isn't the negativity nor frontrunning nor "we're too cool/busy to care about baseball" attitude that I found in other places.


Well sure. What else is there to do in St. Freakin' Louis? Corn mazes?
   29. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:29 PM (#4583427)
How would they be worse off?

Basically the Cardinals were willing to up their payroll for Albert, but nobody else, we wouldn't have Wacha of course(or maybe we would have, as we still had the 23rd overall pick and had him rated higher than other teams did.) I understand the story is that he was a comp pick for Albert, but really he was a guy the Cardinals rated higher than other teams rated him, it's very likely he would have dropped to the 23rd pick and still been available for the Cardinals.

The only difference in roster construction is no Beltran, that is somewhat significant, but not a difference maker. Swap out Beltran for Craig last year and the Cardinals have even better offense as Pujols is still the better hitter. This year his injury makes it a little more interesting, but that just meant that Adams got more playing time than he did this year.
   30. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:31 PM (#4583430)
Well sure. What else is there to do in St. Freakin' Louis? Corn mazes?


I've never seen corn growing in my life. I wonder what a corn maze looks like. I guess the fine folks of Atlanta, after their race baiting and incest conquesting, could show me what a farm looks like.
   31. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:34 PM (#4583433)
I wonder what a corn maze looks like.


I know about those only from a few horror movies myself, though I have seen corn growing, having worked on very small family farm when I was a kid.
   32. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:38 PM (#4583440)

I've never seen corn growing in my life.


Have you never left a four-block range inside the city limits in your life? How can one grow up anywhere in the Midwest and not have seen corn growing at some point? Or maybe you don't realize those tall green things in the open fields are corn.

Then again, it does make your claim that you've never met a Red Sox fan more believable. You're a bubble boy.

As someone who doesn't venture outside these walls much for baseball content/discussion, I find the incessant ######## about St. Louis fans to be far worse than anything I hear from St. Louis fans.

   33. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:45 PM (#4583449)
You're a bubble boy.


Making his dexterity with a keyboard all the more impressive.
   34. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:48 PM (#4583452)
I've never seen corn growing in my life. I wonder what a corn maze looks like.


So you're a bandwagoner. Fine. Whatever. Fact of the matter is it's easy to be die-hard Cards fans in the Midwest. There's *nothing else to do.* "Hey, let's all carpool over to Branson!"
   35. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:49 PM (#4583455)
Have you never left a four-block range inside the city limits in your life? How can one grow up anywhere in the Midwest and not have seen corn growing at some point? Or maybe you don't realize those tall green things in the open fields are corn.


To be honest, I have seen it growing in my travels. I've just never seen it growing anywhere near what I would call St Louis. We don't have Cows in St Louis, we do have deer though. We don't have horses(except one house who got a special permit) etc. It's a city/suburb. It's not remotely close to farm land. You have to venture about an hour outside of city limits to approach anything like that. If there is no reason for you to go there, then why would you go there?
   36. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:51 PM (#4583458)
If there is no reason for you to go there, then why would you go there?


For the corn mazes. Duh.
   37. Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:55 PM (#4583459)
I've never seen corn growing in my life.

i'm amongst the heathen
   38. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 25, 2013 at 12:57 PM (#4583460)
Well sure. What else is there to do in St. Freakin' Louis? Corn mazes?

There's no corn mazes available in winter and the Blues and Rams don't get nearly the support that the Cards do.

I've just never seen it growing anywhere near what I would call St Louis.

Then you must not consider Chesterfield to be St Louis, because there's corn growing 2 miles from my house.

How would they be worse off?

Basically the Cardinals were willing to up their payroll for Albert, but nobody else, we wouldn't have Wacha of course(or maybe we would have, as we still had the 23rd overall pick and had him rated higher than other teams did.) I understand the story is that he was a comp pick for Albert, but really he was a guy the Cardinals rated higher than other teams rated him, it's very likely he would have dropped to the 23rd pick and still been available for the Cardinals.

The only difference in roster construction is no Beltran, that is somewhat significant, but not a difference maker. Swap out Beltran for Craig last year and the Cardinals have even better offense as Pujols is still the better hitter. This year his injury makes it a little more interesting, but that just meant that Adams got more playing time than he did this year.

You're saying they still would have signed Wainwright and Molina if Pujols had accepted their offer? I'm not so sure.
   39. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:09 PM (#4583471)
You have to venture about an hour outside of city limits to approach anything like that.


I'm not from St. Louis, but I suspect you're very much mistaken, if St. Louis is anything like every other Midwestern city. You don't have to go an hour outside Chicago to find farms, and one direction from there is entirely water.
   40. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:14 PM (#4583474)
You're saying they still would have signed Wainwright and Molina if Pujols had accepted their offer? I'm not so sure.


Absolutely. The only difference has been Beltran and Pujols. The Cardinals were willing to exceed their payroll for Pujols because of marketing reasons etc, but it wouldn't have stopped them from continuing with sound business practices. The team has routinely been in the top 10 in payroll and even with their relatively recent success at developing players, doesn't mean they would have gone out of their way to avoid paying players.
   41. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:29 PM (#4583492)
Then again, it does make your claim that you've never met a Red Sox fan more believable. You're a bubble boy.



Red Sox fans are a bunch of Moops.
   42. Mom makes botox doctors furious Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:38 PM (#4583501)
Denmark, most happy country in the world.

Survey says!
   43. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:44 PM (#4583505)
St Louis is America's butthole.
   44. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:45 PM (#4583507)
Then again, it does make your claim that you've never met a Red Sox fan more believable. You're a bubble boy.


I'm currently in North Carolina and have met a Red Sox fan and an anti-Red Sox(Yankee) fan at the same place.(both are waitress/bartenders near my hotel) Anti-Red Sox fan is also a fan of the Patriots...I told her she has no soul. Unfortunately finding baseball fans around here is difficult(Pirate fan is the only other one so far)


   45. Perry Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:46 PM (#4583508)
Well sure. What else is there to do in St. Freakin' Louis? Corn mazes?


Oh, I dunno. Go to the zoo? The symphony? City Museum? The botanical garden? Hear some jazz? See a film? The Muni? The art museum? Last night you could have gone to hear the Eagles (bleah). Tomorrow there's Mike Doughty from Soul Coughing. Or Harry Connick. Or Animal Collective. There's a beer festival this weekend. A film festival at Wash. U. Sara Paretsky and Ellen Stimson are giving talks. The Rams are home Monday night.

No, it's not NYC, or even Chicago, but it's a city and there are things to do.
   46. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 01:52 PM (#4583515)
No, it's not NYC, or even Chicago, but it's a city and there are things to do.


Sure. Of course people will do what they can to salve over the fact that they're stuck in Missouri.
   47. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:04 PM (#4583525)
Of course people will do what they can to salve over the fact that they're stuck in Missouri Georgia.


I, of course, am (a) from Arkansas & (b) in Alabama. There's no salving over the harshness of those realities; there simply isn't.
   48. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:06 PM (#4583528)
Sure. But at least in Atlanta you can get to the mountains, or the ocean. STL? It's famous for being the city that people refused to stay in, preferring to take their chances starving on the plains.
   49. tfbg9 Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:09 PM (#4583532)
"I have no problem accepting the idea Cardinals fans may be the most loyal and nicest fans in baseball."

I heard yesterday that the TV ratings for WS G1 were significantly higher, rate stat-wise, in BOS than in STL. Explain that? Hah!
   50. tfbg9 Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:11 PM (#4583535)
all the close minded people have already made up their minds. Trying to talk to the haters is equivalent to trying to explain evolution to a Texan


And we have today's BBTF UHP winner! Unintentionally Hilarious Post.
   51. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:12 PM (#4583538)
For whatever reasons, my 2nd wife & both my former stepdaughters all live in the St. Louis area these days. They seem perfectly happy there, though it must be noted that they mainly have Little Rock to compare it with. (The younger one was in Colorado for awhile, I think; I haven't kept up with her. And my ex previously lived in New Orleans & D.C. as well.)

My own exposure to St. Louis is limited to driving through there a couple of times en route from Little Rock to Chicago & Indianapolis, respectively, & back again. Atlanta, of course, I'm a lot more (though not very) familiar with.

In an ideal world, I guess, I'd be headed over there a week from today to see Cults at The Loft, whatever the hell that is. This is not an ideal world.
   52. tfbg9 Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4583548)
A lot of the success of the STL baseball team is due to the fact that the good people of STL love baseball at a higher rate than most
other metro areas. They come to the games. They spend money. They watch the games on TV. The team can afford to buy ballplayers that way. They have a regional appeal-kinda like the Sox in NE. Good for them.

I hate only the NYY's. All other teams have my approval. I used to hate the Mets, because they broke my heart, but its OK now.

Gef...you're a rambler for sure, but are you a gambler?

   53. bigglou115 Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:20 PM (#4583549)
You make LR sound terrible gef. I'm originally from Rover, AR. To me, LR is a loud, crowded, maze of humanity. Of course, there aren't 12 people in Rover.
   54. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:25 PM (#4583552)
Gef...you're a rambler for sure, but are you a gambler?


Actually, I'm very much neither. Despite making those drives (to see Wire & to attend the ABA [American Basketball Assn., not American Bar Assn.] reunion, respectively), I'd about as soon plunge a knife into my stomach as travel, period.

   55. SouthSideRyan Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:27 PM (#4583554)
There's no corn mazes available in winter and the Blues and Rams don't get nearly the support that the Cards do.


The Blues haven't made the Stanley Cup Finals since 1970 when there were 12 teams in the league, and have missed the playoffs altogether 5 out of the last 8 seasons.

The Rams haven't had a winning record since 2003.
   56. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:28 PM (#4583555)
You make LR sound terrible gef. I'm originally from Rover, AR. To me, LR is a loud, crowded, maze of humanity. Of course, there aren't 12 people in Rover.


Actually, I love Little Rock; compared, in particular, to Montgomery, it's heaven on earth. Montgomery is like Pine Bluff with 200,000 people, or maybe even Magnolia with 200,000 people. (For outsiders, neither of those would be a good thing.)

I've also lived in the Phoenix & New Orleans areas, but of course LR (well, North LR, which is where I lived for about 13 years, in the blue-collar Levy area) is home. If all things were equal, I'd still be there, but of course they aren't, & these days home is where the mortgage is.

From checking Wikipedia for Rover, looks like I've finally found someone who makes my place of origin -- Stamps, down in the SW corner, a stone's throw from both the Texas & Louisiana borders -- seem positively uptown.

Hee Haw saaaaa-lute!
   57. cardsfanboy Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:39 PM (#4583565)
The Blues haven't made the Stanley Cup Finals since 1970 when there were 12 teams in the league, and have missed the playoffs altogether 5 out of the last 8 seasons.


It's incorrect to say that the Blues don't have a strong following though. They do very well in attendance and Blues awareness is pretty high in the city. The Rams on the other hand....when a team bad mouths a free stadium and has basically stated they have every intention of getting out of their lease agreement and leaving.... well f-ck them. Cardinals didn't get anywhere close to the deal on a stadium that the Rams got, and yet they don't bad mouth their situation.
   58. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 02:57 PM (#4583579)
In an ideal world, I guess, I'd be headed over there a week from today to see Cults at The Loft, whatever the hell that is. This is not an ideal world.


Well, are you or are you not coming to see Cults at The Loft? Because that's maybe 10 city blocks from my house.
   59. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:01 PM (#4583584)
Now that we've gotten the equivalent of backpay, I'll be giving it pretty serious thought. Do you know the venue? if so, what's it like?
   60. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:05 PM (#4583589)
I'm not from St. Louis, but I suspect you're very much mistaken, if St. Louis is anything like every other Midwestern city. You don't have to go an hour outside Chicago to find farms, and one direction from there is entirely water.

I am, and you don't. You can drive about 20 minutes outside the city limits and find cornfields.
It's incorrect to say that the Blues don't have a strong following though. They do very well in attendance and Blues awareness is pretty high in the city.

It is, but nowhere near the Cardinal awareness.
Absolutely. The only difference has been Beltran and Pujols. The Cardinals were willing to exceed their payroll for Pujols because of marketing reasons etc, but it wouldn't have stopped them from continuing with sound business practices. The team has routinely been in the top 10 in payroll and even with their relatively recent success at developing players, doesn't mean they would have gone out of their way to avoid paying players.

It's not provable one way or the other unless you work in the Cardinal front office, but I see no reason to assume that they would have definitely signed those two.
Sure. Of course people will do what they can to salve over the fact that they're stuck in Missouri.

Well I'm not "stuck in Missouri". I can and do go to Hong Kong anytime I want.
   61. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:07 PM (#4583594)
Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:49 AM (#4583367)

i never thought the astros would turn into what they did - and those of us i know who HAVE left did it because of the stupid DH league

Lisa, just out of curiosity, when the Astros were in the World Series, did you only watch the games in Houston?


- well Andy, yeah, it's not like i can afford going off to chi town and spending massive bux on tix, hotels etc. it cost plenty just to go to the home games to freeze and watch phil garner show the world how he is a complete and total blithering idiot and brad lidge to

sigh

or do you mean tv? because yes of course i watch the WS, do every year, which is how i know how terrible DH ball is



gef
i can't help how the repub governor has "redistricted" my state to get more morons in office. it does not mean they represent most of us and you should know that

i didn't exactly vote for the return of the KKK/john birch society and neither did any other decent person and most of us here are decent

   62. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:10 PM (#4583598)
What is wrong with corn mazes?
   63. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4583599)
gef
i can't help how the repub governor has "redistricted" my state to get more morons in office. it does not mean they represent most of us and you should know that

i didn't exactly vote for the return of the KKK/john birch society and neither did any other decent person and most of us here are decent


Oh, I know, Lisa. Being in Alabama, I just have so precious little opportunity to bag on another state's elected politicians ...

And besides, as I've noted before, I'm from Arkansas (which hasn't exactly covered itself in glory of late politcally speaking, either), & for that matter about 30 minutes east of Texarkana. I'm required by birth & breeding to seethe with resentment & envy toward everything Texan.

   64. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:12 PM (#4583601)
What is wrong with corn mazes?


From every movie I've seen that feature them, people get killed in them all the time, whether by maniacs, zombies or monsters.
   65. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:19 PM (#4583609)
gef
i can't help how the repub governor has "redistricted" my state to get more morons in office. it does not mean they represent most of us and you should know that

i didn't exactly vote for the return of the KKK/john birch society and neither did any other decent person and most of us here are decent

I kinda think the congress does represent the majority of the people within a specific district. Gerrymandering may make districts safer for incumbents but they should make the districts safer for both Republicans and Democrats. Of course your word was "morons", so that could be either Republicans or Democrats, and the gerrymandering benefits the more attention seeking, and less practical of both parties, so you're probably right. Also it's usually the state legislature who does the redistricting, not the governor, but I'm not specifically familiar with the situation in Texas.
What is wrong with corn mazes?
They're less healthy than soy mazes?
St Louis is America's butthole

Which means we're cleaned daily, unlike the rest of the country.
   66. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:24 PM (#4583614)
Do you know the venue? if so, what's it like?


I've been to a couple of shows there. Not a dive bar or anything. Friendly, usually smoke free for shows, right off of 75 in the Center Stage complex. It's sort of a mid-market venue. The East Atlanta clubs are usually grittier. The larger acts tend to go for the amphitheaters out in the 'burbs if they can't sell out Phillips or the Dome. Decent acoustics. I'm almost certainly going over to that building (it hosts three venues; Center Stage, Vinyl and The Loft) for a Dessa concert next month.
   67. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:29 PM (#4583620)
Cool. Not that dive bars necessarily throw me off (except for the fact that I can't drink, of course), but still. Offhand, only places I've seen gigs in Atlanta, I think, are the Cotton Club, the Tabernacle, the Drunken Unicorn, Fox Theatre & Echo Lounge. And Chastain Park Amphitheatre, which isn't exactly a club.
   68. Bob Tufts Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:32 PM (#4583623)
I will try not to take it out on the good people of STL, but I am biased against the town that nurtured the early broadcast careers of Joe Buck and Bob Costas.

By the way, is it odd or somehow a sign of maturity that Red Sox fans are not complaining about "Cardinal bias" from Buck and McCarver?
   69. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:48 PM (#4583635)
Echo is closed. Sad day. I can't stand the Tabernacle's acoustics. Cotton Club was a good venue in the 90s. The Unicorn is a staple these days. The Loft is somewhere between the Tabernacle and Cotton Club. Not nearly as grungy as the Unicorn.
   70. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:52 PM (#4583636)
Echo is closed. Sad day.


Awww, dammit. I had no idea. I saw The Fall there. And the Mekons. Rocket from the Tombs. Wire.

*sigh*

Only time I was in the Tabernacle was to see the Pretenders as part of a birthday gift for my then-gf, going on 11 years ago. Not that into the band, so didn't care a whit about the acoustics or much of anything else.
   71. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:53 PM (#4583637)
I will try not to take it out on the good people of STL, but I am biased against the town that nurtured the early broadcast careers of Joe Buck and Bob Costas.
(hangs head)....although I did like Costas when he announced Spirits of St Louis games.
   72. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:56 PM (#4583642)
Awww, dammit. I had no idea.


Been gone for nearly a decade now. Was the best venue in Atlanta in the 90s. Ownership, as bar/venue ownership is want to be, didn't have their #### together. Their liquor license expired, and when they went to renew they couldn't because they'd only been allowed in as a grandfathered license due to the proximity of a middle school and church over in the gentrifying neighby.

My buddy Alex used to book the Echo shows. Now he books around the city out of his own storefront.
   73. just plain joe Posted: October 25, 2013 at 04:13 PM (#4583660)
St Louis is America's butthole


If you had ever been to Wichita Falls, Texas you would not say that.
   74. tfbg9 Posted: October 25, 2013 at 04:22 PM (#4583676)



i didn't exactly vote for the return of the KKK/john birch society and neither did any other decent person and most of us here are decent


Oh shut the f*ck up already with the gratuitous pot shots, everybody. Stop assuming you are the only voter(s) who thinks things out in good faith. GOP Voters are the same as KKK supporters? Everybody who doesn't vote your way is not a decent person? Really? Just STFU. Enough of this bulls1it already. Stop f*cking demonizing anybody and everybody who doesn't share your f*cking opinions.


Seriously. Just STFU already. All of you. Its a baseball site. Take your out of the blue political bullsh1t to the OTP thread.
   75. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2013 at 04:24 PM (#4583680)
gef the talking mongoose Posted: October 25, 2013 at 03:11 PM (#4583599)
gef
I'm required by birth & breeding to seethe with resentment & envy toward everything Texan.


- yes, i understand completely

ah might could think bout thankin mah lucky stars ah am here in texas - and ah DO

in spite of the fact we got our share of "christian"ists, looneys, bigots etc, it is still mah country and where most of man family bin the past 4 hunnert years and i wouldn't want to live anywheres else

except maybe atlanta - that's a nice city, what ah seen of it. it is divided into like 6 or something counties which is batshtt crazy, but hey, you can't have ever thang just right
   76. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 04:28 PM (#4583686)
in spite of the fact we got our share of "christian"ists, looneys, bigots etc, it is still mah country and where most of man family bin the past 4 hunnert years and i wouldn't want to live anywheres else


I will concede that some of my favorite people on the 'net can be found in Texas -- you, BDC, a good pal of mine on the Classic Horror Film Board, a sister-in-law from my first marriage I think the world of, the writer Joe R. Lansdale (though at least he's from east Texas, i.e. the Ark-La-Tex, where I'm from). Others, too, I'm sure.

Just hard to admit for an Arkansas native, y'know. Probably feelings aren't as hard for folks back home since the old Southwest Conference dissolved, though. When I was growing up, the Razorbacks beat Texas when I was 12, & we beat 'em when I was 20. My entire adolescence was characterized by losses to the Longhorns. That's a hard thing to get over.

And then there's the fact that the Travs play in the Texas League ...
   77. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 04:59 PM (#4583712)
Really? Just STFU. Enough of this bulls1it already. Stop f*cking demonizing anybody and everybody who doesn't share your f*cking opinions.


And suddenly the entire internet goes dead with the exception of porn and cat gifs.
   78. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 05:08 PM (#4583727)
except maybe atlanta - that's a nice city, what ah seen of it. it is divided into like 6 or something counties which is batshtt crazy, but hey, you can't have ever thang just right


Some cities are built on the confluence of rivers. We're built on the confluence of counties. And railroad tracks. And interstates.
   79. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 05:12 PM (#4583730)
Little Rock is built on the confluence of interstates & school districts.
   80. Perry Posted: October 25, 2013 at 05:24 PM (#4583740)
Some cities are built on the confluence of rivers. We're built on the confluence of counties. And railroad tracks. And interstates.


Wait a minute -- you're ragging on St. Louis and you live in ####### Atlanta??? Aw, geez -- I've been to Atlanta a few times (never again, I hope). You've got no standing to mock St. Louis, my friend.
   81. bjhanke Posted: October 25, 2013 at 06:29 PM (#4583779)
This comment is a serious question, and not meant as snark of any kind. I'm from STL, and have been to ATL several times. ATL is fine. Never had any trouble there once I figured out that there really was a corner of four Peachtree streets and I wasn't reading the map wrong. But I am puzzled about how it got so big so early in American history. I know why STL got big early; it's where the Mississippi and Missouri rivers meet. There had to be some geographical reason why ATL was such a hub in the early South. I just don't know what it is. Can someone who actually lives there and knows the city's history give me a clue? Thanks in Advance - Brock Hanke
   82. DA Baracus Posted: October 25, 2013 at 06:38 PM (#4583783)
it is divided into like 6 or something counties which is batshtt crazy, but hey, you can't have ever thang just right


The city is 2 counties. The batshit crazy part is the suburbs, which are batshit crazy.
   83. Esoteric Posted: October 25, 2013 at 07:26 PM (#4583797)
Just STFU. Enough of this bulls1it already. Stop f*cking demonizing anybody and everybody who doesn't share your f*cking opinions.

Seriously. Just STFU already. All of you. Its a baseball site. Take your out of the blue political bullsh1t to the OTP thread.
This. Seriously people, each and every one of you who decided it might be a good idea to insert politics into this thread (even in response to someone else) ought to be ashamed. KEEP IT TO THE FUCKING OT:POLITICS THREAD. NO EXCEPTIONS, NAY NOT ONE WHATSOEVER.

God. And some of this is from people whom I expect better of. The need for some people to constantly insert political opinions into unrelated threads nearly tanked the entire BBTF community not too very long ago. If it takes eternal vigilance to keep from returning to the Bad Old Days, then so be it. How quickly memory fades.
   84. rr Posted: October 25, 2013 at 07:59 PM (#4583809)
Eso,

Furtado actually posted this particular piece, which is non-political although slightly flame-inducing, but if you have an issue about politically-tinged topics coming up outside of OTP, Repoz is probably the guy you should mostly be taking it up with. Also, tfbg9's telling people how to act on BTF, and/or how to be reasonable about differences in political opinions and where and how one should/express them, does, shall we say, induce a smile. How many f-bombs, which are against site rules, BTW, did he work into that post--which wasn't directed at some sniveling, evil lefty like me, but at bbc?
   85. Esoteric Posted: October 25, 2013 at 08:33 PM (#4583817)
but if you have an issue about politically-tinged topics coming up outside of OTP, Repoz is probably the guy you should mostly be taking it up with
Oh I know. Repoz is pretty egregious about it. But honestly, I wouldn't even care *quite* as much about political BS in a typical Repoz "trolling thread." I don't like the fact that he posts those -- or that he's more or less given carte blanche to do so -- but I know better than to either get involved in the comments to those threads or to be surprised and/or outraged at any silly political slander that might be going on in them. (It's a little like the legal principle of "coming to the nuisance" in Tort: you know what you're going to find before you get therer, so you don't have much right to complain when you find it.)

What was particularly offensive here is that, as you said, there's nothing 'political' about Megdal's article at all, and yet here we are. And it's actually a pretty good article so it's a shame nobody's really even bothering to discuss it.

And I love Lisa -- heck, everyone loves her, right? -- but she was out of line, and in a rather offensive way at that. Nobody is questioning her general worth as person or value as a member of this community. (Well, not me at least!)

I know I must come across as a scold. I'm sorry for that. But I really do think that the sorts of people who love to dash off political insults -- blithely vicious, dismissive ones at that -- at the drop of a hat, or who are up for a political argument at any time, any place, simply don't realize how much they can pollute the atmosphere for everyone else. Or how that sort of stuff, left unchecked, will quickly destroy whatever tenuous community spirit we have around here.
   86. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 08:49 PM (#4583822)
(hangs head)....although I did like Costas when he announced Spirits of St Louis games.


He wasn't BOB COSTAS then, of course, but in retrospect his would've been the intermittently audble voice on the static-filled broadcast out of (I presume) KMOX that I heard on the radio as a kid down in SW Arkansas on our old radio as I did my best to follow that very first Spirits game way back when ... his first pro gig, if I remember Loose Balls correctly.

(Memories. man. Our washing machine was in the corner of the kitchen, right by my bedroom door, & that spot was the best place in the house for reception, so when the washer wasn't in use the radio sat on its lid. No dryer; couldn't afford one, & god knows where one would've gone, anyway.)
   87. SoSH U at work Posted: October 25, 2013 at 08:56 PM (#4583825)
know I must come across as a scold. I'm sorry for that. But I really do think that the sorts of people who love to dash off political insults -- blithely vicious, dismissive ones at that -- at the drop of a hat, or who are up for a political argument at any time, any place, simply don't realize how much they can pollute the atmosphere for everyone else. Or how that sort of stuff, left unchecked, will quickly destroy whatever tenuous community spirit we have around here.


It's not so much the scolding. It's the fact that you didn't simply ignore Teddy acting like a complete over-the-top ####### in his post, a comment that isn't doing much of that community-preserving you're championing; you gave it your digitial seal of approval. You want to have more weight as a scold, you might want to spread around the opprobrium.
   88. Ivan Grushenko of Hong Kong Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:05 PM (#4583827)
And it's actually a pretty good article so it's a shame nobody's really even bothering to discuss it.


So as a result, you feel the importance of playoff baseball at Busch Stadium, without the contrast between cheer and boo. It happens through cheering only, a monochromatic sound that stands out more than it otherwise would, once you've gone to other venues. Covering the NLCS, Dodger Stadium was picturesque and lovely, filled with thousands of Dodger partisans. I loved seeing baseball matter to them, just as I did seeing it matter to the Cardinal faithful.

But about that ballpark: It's a very different experience from playoff baseball elsewhere. Now look, I'm not going to have an argument with you about booing. If you consider that part of being a good fan, fine. But Cardinals fans, overwhelmingly, don't boo. Not their opponents, and certainly not their own players.

He said it better than I did when I tried. I'm an A's fan. There are lots of A's fans who live and die with the A's as Cardinal fans do with the Cardinals and we form fan clubs and they're wonderful. But it's not the same in St Louis. The A's don't mean to Oakland and the East Bay what the Cardinals mean to St Louis. You don't have an entire metropolitan area and surrounding rural areas live and die with the team. And somehow despite the intensity of the feeling for the team there's no negativity -- not toward their own players and not really toward any opposing players unless there's a perceived slight like Nyger Morgan, Yasiel Puig, Jeffrey Leonard or Brandon Phillips. St Louis people call David Ortiz "Big Papi" and like Derek Jeter and Hanley Ramirez. There is literally no animosity toward anyone other than the Cubs and that's a more or less friendly rivalry. If I were a player I'd love to play here, more than I would New York or certainly, Oakland.
This should have been exposed for the B.S. that it is for all time when they showed that woman holding up the giant "ALBERT WHO?" sign during the playoffs last year. They're no different from the fans anywhere else, so enough with this nonsense already.

I invite you to come to St Louis next year and experience our hospitality. I don't recommend getting too hostile toward the Cards, but opposing fans are treated pretty well.

By the way, now that the Cardinals won Game 2, my Game 5 tickets are actually worth something! I plan to be in attendance on Monday.
   89. Srul Itza Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:12 PM (#4583828)
In Atlanta you can get to the mountains, or the ocean


You call that an ocean?
   90. Rickey! trades in sheep and threats Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:13 PM (#4583829)
Atlanta was built around Terminus. Railroad hub. We have always been a mercantile center for trade.

What ATL has I've STL is not being 7000 miles from mountains or a beach.
   91. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:27 PM (#4583835)
Wasn't it called Terminus early on, Sam? Or am I confusing reality with some sf or maybe graphic (the first Surrogates comes to mind) novel that I've read? (I hate it when that happens.)
   92. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4583845)
Lisa, just out of curiosity, when the Astros were in the World Series, did you only watch the games in Houston?

- well Andy, yeah, it's not like i can afford going off to chi town and spending massive bux on tix, hotels etc. it cost plenty just to go to the home games to freeze and watch phil garner show the world how he is a complete and total blithering idiot and brad lidge to

sigh

or do you mean tv? because yes of course i watch the WS, do every year, which is how i know how terrible DH ball is


Yeah, I did mean on TV. I was just wondering whether the DH offended you so much you weren't even deigning to watch it on the tube. But it's not necessary to see a DH in action to be offended by the concept, which is why I asked the question.
   93. just plain joe Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:50 PM (#4583847)
Some cities are built on the confluence of rivers. We're built on the confluence of counties. And railroad tracks. And interstates.


And here I always thought that we built this city on rock and roll.
   94. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:58 PM (#4583848)
And here I always thought that we built this city on rock and roll.


Jim Furtado, ban this man. Permanently.
   95. base ball chick Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:02 PM (#4583850)
Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: October 25, 2013 at 09:49 PM (#4583845)
Lisa, just out of curiosity, when the Astros were in the World Series, did you only watch the games in Houston?

- well Andy, yeah, it's not like i can afford going off to chi town and spending massive bux on tix, hotels etc. it cost plenty just to go to the home games to freeze and watch phil garner show the world how he is a complete and total blithering idiot and brad lidge to

sigh

or do you mean tv? because yes of course i watch the WS, do every year, which is how i know how terrible DH ball is

Yeah, I did mean on TV. I was just wondering whether the DH offended you so much you weren't even deigning to watch it on the tube. But it's not necessary to see a DH in action to be offended by the concept, which is why I asked the question.


- the older i get, the more i'm hating the DH - seeing as how it isn't confined to the other league i used to have to only watch twice a year

and of course my ex-team

the more you have to see something you hate that you know is destroying the game you loved, the more you hate it. i din't use to have to really boycott or protest, but times change. and yeah, i know i'm fighting what is almost surely gonna be a losing battle, kind of like pancreatic cancer. but you fight anyhow
   96. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:23 PM (#4583856)
And more power to you, Lisa, but I'm one of the great unwashed who just doesn't get it.

So ... pitchers don't bat.

And?

*yawn*

If so trivial (IMHO, of course) a concern is enough to be "destroying the game you loved," there must not've been much to that game in the first place, at least to those of your persuasion.

(Perhaps my mind was poisoned early on as a kid by seeing the DH extend the careers of players I happened to love, like Tony Oliva & Orlando Cepeda &, to a lesser extent, Jim Ray Hart.)
   97. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: October 25, 2013 at 10:28 PM (#4583857)
the more you have to see something you hate that you know is destroying the game you loved, the more you hate it. i din't use to have to really boycott or protest, but times change. and yeah, i know i'm fighting what is almost surely gonna be a losing battle, kind of like pancreatic cancer. but you fight anyhow

The question is, have you schooled your children into being spokesfolks against the deadly virus? That'd be one way of achieving eternal life in case the old pancreas gives out.
   98. HowardMegdal Posted: October 25, 2013 at 11:06 PM (#4583861)
Jealous I didn't think of the DH/pancreatic cancer analogy.
   99. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: October 26, 2013 at 12:41 AM (#4583869)
the more you have to see something you hate that you know is destroying the game you loved, the more you hate it. i din't use to have to really boycott or protest, but times change. and yeah, i know i'm fighting what is almost surely gonna be a losing battle, kind of like pancreatic cancer. but you fight anyhow

My father in law has pancreatic cancer. In the grand scheme of things, I don't really give a #### about the dh. Actually, I do. I want the NL to adopt it just so everyone will shut the #### up.

Oh and I haven't been too many places in the midwest. My family owns a farm in North Dakota and I've been to Indianapolis. And if Cardinal fans are anything like most of the folks that I met in Indy, than I can see why people write articles like this. I don't think I've been to a friendlier city. Well, I take that back. Red Lodge, Montana is the friendliest place I've ever been to.
   100. valuearbitrageur Posted: October 26, 2013 at 12:48 AM (#4583870)
Any city proud of their local sports team is a town full of morons. You emotionally attach yourself to a super profitable entertainment business run and staffed by the super wealthy that still demands handouts from your politicians at the threat of moving, and despite there being thirty of these greedy leeches in the country you by default give your emotional attachment to the one that's closest in proximity to your house and sucking money directly out of your roads and schools.
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