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Sunday, December 30, 2012

The Bill James Mailbag

The Tango Bar…and above it.

For the sake of discussion, let’s say that Schilling is clearly the better pitcher over Jack Morris (or find two other players historically that is a more clear example). Morris however will get 70-80% of the votes (14th year), while Schilling is going to get 30-40% of the votes (1st year), and they are on the same ballot. Do you think it’s a fundamental problem that the two are treated separately, that the writers have clearly thought and rethought Morris far more than they have Schilling and will only seriously get to Schilling in year 2 or 3? Or do you think it would make more sense to look at all the pitchers on the ballot, realize that Schilling is a far better choice than Morris (who is really as good a choice as David Wells), and vote on that basis? That is, rather than vote yes/no on each player, instead list all players in an ordered fashion from 1 to 10.
Asked by: tangotiger

One could create a better system by the use of a weighted ballot.  It is my opinion that when you collect more information, you get better results.  The weighted ballot makes a tremendous difference in MVP votes—and accounts heavily for the fact that MVP voting IS largely successful—and I strongly believe that it would have a similar beneficial effect were it used in voting for the Hall of Fame.

Hi Bill, I know “clutch” is a hard thing to define, and many people dispute it. I’ve seen some different ways of measuring it, so forgive me if you’ve covered this before, but is Runner Left On Base a way to look at it? I know Batting Average with RISP might cover this, but is it the same? And would one make any more sense than the other?
Asked by: 77royals

1)  I have made numerous efforts to define and measure clutch performance, none of which has been at all successful or has created any resonance in the analytical community, and none of which I want to dredge up now, for fear that I would be eaten by the alligators.

2)  I don’t really get what you mean by “Is Runners Left on Base a way to look at it?”  You’d have to ask a more specific question, I think.

Repoz Posted: December 30, 2012 at 09:22 AM | 351 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: sabermetrics

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   1. DJS and the Infinite Sadness Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4334551)
I'm a little confused by that answer to the second question in the excerpt. If none of his efforts to define and measure clutch performance have been at all successful, why would they create resonance in the analytical community?
   2. Lassus Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:57 AM (#4334553)
I'm a little confused by that answer to the second question in the excerpt. If none of his efforts to define and measure clutch performance have been at all successful, why would they create resonance in the analytical community?

My sarcastotronica is probably broken, but I'm sure that's supposed to be a "nor" there.
   3. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 30, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4334554)
I'm just confused that he decided to answer a question he didn't think was specific enough. I assume he got a few more questions that he could have responded to.

If none of his efforts to define and measure clutch performance have been at all successful, why would they create resonance in the analytical community?


Well, there are provocative failures that can resonate within a community. Take for instance, stone washed jeans or the last season of The Wire.
   4. SoSH U at work Posted: December 30, 2012 at 11:00 AM (#4334555)
I'm a little confused by that answer to the second question in the excerpt. If none of his efforts to define and measure clutch performance have been at all successful, why would they create resonance in the analytical community?


Maybe only the successful ones failed to resonate in the stathead world.

I'm just confused that he decided to answer a question he didn't think was specific enough. I assume he got a few more questions that he could have responded to.


The poorly chosen question and correspondingly pointless answer is a BJ Mailbag staple.
   5. bookbook Posted: December 30, 2012 at 11:29 AM (#4334561)
The poorly chosen question and correspondingly pointless answer is a BJ Mailbag staple

And yet we all continue to read....

Bill James is definitely one of those guys we'd all remember as much more brilliant if he'd just stopped talking 15 years ago
After making his very impressive breakthroughs.
   6. The District Attorney Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4334569)
Bill also states his five favorite movies:
Airplane!
The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance
Being There
Unforgiven
O Brother, Where Art Thou?
   7. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:16 PM (#4334573)
Yeah, casting a list in terms of "favorite" is always in some defensible. Interesting choices, though. Selections without explanations beg to be ignored. What would be interesting would be to know what movies he's seen--how widely "read" is he?

Being There?
   8. bobm Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:24 PM (#4334574)
For the sake of discussion, let’s say that Schilling is clearly the better pitcher over Jack Morris (or find two other players historically that is a more clear example). Morris however will get 70-80% of the votes (14th year), while Schilling is going to get 30-40% of the votes (1st year), and they are on the same ballot. 


IMO this is a false premise, despite the disclaimer. It is not clear to the BBWAA electorate that Schilling is better on statistics and as good on the career postseason narrative. That is a big part of the problem and justification of the 15-year process. If 75% of the electorate were convinced about each one's career being worthy of induction, they could elect both men "on the same ballot." (The voters average ~6 votes per ballot out of a possible 10; where is the scarcity?)

The BBWAA HOF ballot is different from voting for a single season most valuable player, in that there is usually only one MVP per year.

Do you think it’s a fundamental problem that the two are treated separately, that the writers have clearly thought and rethought Morris far more than they have Schilling and will only seriously get to Schilling in year 2 or 3?


This is a feature, not a bug. After reading some of the voters' columns this year, I consider the 15-year process to be an opportunity for dialogue and education. This "first-ballot" Hall of Famer fetish is a bigger flaw in the voting process.
   9. Greg K Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:27 PM (#4334576)
What would be interesting would be to know what movies he's seen--how widely "read" is he?

This sounds like an invitation to copy and paste my database of movies seen with the accompanying ratings into this thread. Just my method of creating positive resonance within the community.
   10. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:46 PM (#4334578)
It is not clear to the BBWAA electorate that Schilling is better [than Morris] on statistics and as good on the career postseason narrative.

When I see comments like that and have finished cursing the darkness, I wonder whether it might not be a bad idea for the BBWAA to send every member a statistical package that compared each eligible batter's and pitcher's key statistics side-by-side in each category that voters appear to think is important.

Truncated Example:

POSTSEASON
Roger Clemens 35 games, 12-8 W-L, 3.75 ERA
Jack Morris 13 games, 7-4 W-L, 3.80 ERA
Curt Schilling 19 games, 11-2 W-L, 2.23 ERA

For the sabermetrically challenged, this package might also included a Dick and Jane level glossary of some of the "advanced newfangled" statistics. You know, like OPS, OPS+ and ERA+. Explain to them in "See Spot. See Spot run." terms just what these terms measure and why they're important in evaluating a player's career.

Obviously such a package wouldn't be necessary for writers who have actually done the work on their own, and in the case of the no-brainers or the obvious one-and-doners it would be superfluous. But even if it only caught the attention of 10% of the voting base, it might swing a few votes in the "right" direction, and in any case, how could it hurt?

   11. Avoid running at all times.-S. Paige Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:49 PM (#4334581)
This sounds like an invitation to copy and paste my database of movies seen with the accompanying ratings into this thread. Just my method of creating positive resonance within the community.


I say go for it. Or we can all list our favorite movies of the year. My list begins with Moonrise Kingdom.
   12. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:54 PM (#4334583)
What would be interesting would be to know what movies he's seen--how widely "read" is he?


This sounds like an invitation to copy and paste my database of movies seen with the accompanying ratings into this thread. Just my method of creating positive resonance within the community.

I've compiled a running Excel file of the roughly 3000 feature films and shorts I've recorded over the past 3+ years, complete with ratings for the 2000 or so that I've seen at least once. If I ever considered copying and pasting that particular hedge against future memory loss, I'd be thinking more of a hostage situation than anything relating to positive resonance.
   13. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: December 30, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4334584)
I'm pretty sure I did not see a single movie that's been released this year.
   14. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:12 PM (#4334595)
I think a weighted voting ballot for the HOF would be very interesting idea, and would allow those who want to punish the "PED suspects" the ability to still list them on the ballot, but at the bottom end.
"They are HOF players but there are more deserving ones, in my mind."

Based on the the movies listed at boxofficemojo.com, I saw ten of them in the theatre.

In order of enjoyment (from most to least):

Marvel's The Avengers
Skyfall
The Dark Knight Rises
The Hunger Games
Les Miserables
Looper
The Amazing Spider-Man
Jack Reacher
Ted
Total Recall
   15. Greg K Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:13 PM (#4334596)
I say go for it. Or we can all list our favorite movies of the year. My list begins with Moonrise Kingdom.

For some reason I keep expecting to not like Wes Anderson's latest movies, but end up being pleasantly surprised. Same thing happened with Moonrise Kingdom. I think it stems from the disappointment of Darjeeling.

I also liked Submarine which isn't technically a Wes Anderson movie, but may as well be.

Seeing as it's the end of the year, a 2012 list could be in order. Per my criticker scores...
I should note that it's been a bit of a weak year. But I guess that may be because I don't see a ton of movies in theatre. So it's very likely I just haven't seen my favourite movie of 2012 yet.

Seven Psychopaths - 72
Looper - 71
Anna Karenina - 70
Moonrise Kingdom - 68
Skyfall - 68
Dark Night Rises - 67
Knuckleball - 66
Ted - 66
Avengers - 65
Prometheus - 65
Wanderlust - 64
Five Year Engagement - 63
Seeking a Friend for the End of the World - 60
Lay the Favourite - 59
Abraham Lincoln Vampire Hunter - 58
21 Jump Street - 57
Bel Ami - 57
To Rome with Love - 55
Liberal Arts - 52

Man, I saw a lot of crap this year.

EDIT: I suppose I should explain my ranking system. In the 80s is a movie that I like so much that I think it says something about me as a person. 70 is one I could easily watch multiple times. 60 is perfectly cromulent if moving towards forgettable at the bottom end. 50s is a movie I feel stupid about having watched.

For the life of me I can't remember why I'd have Wanderlust so high...I assume I just like Paul Rudd that much.

I guess I've also seen the Hobbit and This is 40. But haven't rated them yet.
   16. cardsfanboy Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:17 PM (#4334600)
I'm pretty sure I did not see a single movie that's been released this year.


I had to see Avengers, but it's the only in movie theater movie I've seen this year.
   17. Bob Tufts Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:24 PM (#4334601)
Just watched "Twelve Angry Men" on TCM. Lee J. Cobb is a perfect proxy for the rumor mongering BBWAA voters.
   18. steagles Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:27 PM (#4334604)

Truncated Example:

POSTSEASON
Roger Clemens 35 games, 12-8 W-L, 3.75 ERA
Jack Morris 13 games, 7-4 W-L, 3.80 ERA
Curt Schilling 19 games, 11-2 W-L, 2.23 ERA
yes, but that's not an apples=apples comparison. the entirety of morris' career occurred before the onset of divisional playoffs/wildcards, and he was therefore denied the opportunity to pitch in as many games as clemens and schilling.

   19. J.R. Wolf Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:49 PM (#4334611)
Curt recently wrote something to the effect of "you're not going to beat me in October," and hardly anyone has.

Curt Schilling is one pitcher who I think should be auto-HOF on the first ballot.
   20. J.R. Wolf Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:50 PM (#4334612)
And if Morris is an HOF pitcher then Bill James is my uncle.
   21. bobm Posted: December 30, 2012 at 01:58 PM (#4334620)
Schilling:

                                                                                      
Year   Age Tm Lg Series Rslt Opp W L  W-L%  ERA G GS CG SHO   IP  H  R ER HR BB IBB SO
2 ALCS                           2 1  .667 5.82 4  4  0   0 21.2 25 14 14  4  2   0 13
2 NLCS                           1 0 1.000 1.44 3  3  1   0 25.0 15  5  4  0  7   0 31
4 WS                             4 1  .800 2.06 7  7  1   1 48.0 33 13 11  4 10   0 43


4 LCS: 7 G, 3-1, 46.2 IP, 3.47 ERA

EDIT: 8 LCS/WS: 14 G, 7-1, 94.2 IP, 2.76 ERA

Morris

                                                                                      
Year   Age Tm Lg Series Rslt Opp W L W-L%  ERA  G GS CG SHO   IP  H  R ER HR BB IBB SO
4 Yrs (7 Series)                 7 4 .636 3.80 13 13  5   1 92.1 83 39 39  9 32   3 64
4 ALCS                           3 2 .600 4.87  6  6  2   0 40.2 39 22 22  4 14   1 24
3 WS                             4 2 .667 2.96  7  7  3   1 51.2 44 17 17  5 18   2 40
   22. Matt Welch Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4334622)
I'm pretty sure I did not see a single movie that's been released this year.

Do movies in an airplane count?
   23. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:18 PM (#4334631)
Enjoyed fully:
The Cabin in the Woods
Lawless
Looper
Argo
Wreck-it Ralph
Skyfall
Lincoln

Enjoyed more than half:
Haywire
The Avengers
Prometheus
The Dark Knight Rises
The Hobbit: The Phantom Menace

Enjoyed less than half:
John Carter
Snow White and the Huntsman
We Have a Pope

Did not enjoy:
The Dictator

"Enjoy" isn't really the right word, but was great:
The Grey

"Enjoy" isn't really the right word, but was sinister:
Sinister
   24. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:27 PM (#4334640)
Favorite movie of the year, off the top of my head -- Excision. Engagingly sick. Chained, directed by Jennifer Lynch, was a lot better than I expected, too.

Best zombie flick -- Dead Season.

As a total fiend for exorcism films, I quite liked The Devil Inside as well. Apparently, a lot of viewers wailed & gnashed their teeth over the supposedly enigmatic ending, but I have no idea what the heck they're on about & can only assume they meant to watch some My Pretty Pony musical instead.

Best found-footage type flick -- Greystone Park, by Oliver Stone's son (dad appears at the beginning).

That's for discs (I haven't actually been out to a movie in about a year & a half, I thin) dated 2012. Probably quite a few 2011 flicks actually came out this year, too.
   25. JJ1986 Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:31 PM (#4334642)
Liberal Arts - 52


I did not realize anyone else in the world had seen this movie. I was enjoying it until the 15-minute long fight about Twilight in the middle.
   26. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:33 PM (#4334643)
Top 10 movies I've watched this year, in alphabetical order:

Absence of Malice
Germany: Year Zero
High and Low
Intruder In The Dust
M
Pandora's Box
Red Beard
Rififi
The Search
Touchez Pa Au Grisbi




   27. OsunaSakata Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4334645)
I'm in an OOTP historical league. It includes Negro Leaguers, Japanese players and career minor leaguers. The HOF vote is weighted and of course owners use stats almost exclusively because we only pay attention to our own players. Looks like this is going to be a movie hijack.
   28. Dale Sams Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:38 PM (#4334646)
Movies I've seen this year:

The Hobbit

Movies I've seen in the last nine years:

The Hobbit
Pick of Destiny
Return of the King
   29. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:45 PM (#4334649)
As my list above reaffirms, it's no secret that 90+ percent of my viewing is horror & to a lesser extent sf. If I wanted to watch stuff about, or that could pass for, real life, I'd have cable TV &/or would pay more attention to people around me.

That said, as I've noted before, my favorite movies ever do include the likes of Reds, Grapes of Wrath, The Snake Pit, Sunset Boulevard, Citizen Kane, Sling Blade, Annie Hall, Stalag 17, The Great Escape, Dazed & Confused, Velvet Goldmine, The Return of Martin Guerre, What's Eating Gilbert Grape, Danton, the various Thin Mans & Mr. Belvederes, about half of John Sayles' oeuvre, etc. etc. etc.

Oh, & for you self-styled cynics & sophisticates, Field of Dreams, too.
   30. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:54 PM (#4334653)
Theater movies I saw this year in rank order

The Grey>Moonrise Kingdom>Argo>>>>>>>The Words

But the top 3 changes with my mood. The Words remains at the bottom, regardless. It was better in theory than in practice.
   31. cardsfanboy Posted: December 30, 2012 at 02:55 PM (#4334654)
Curt Schilling is one pitcher who I think should be auto-HOF on the first ballot.


Really? I would vote for him, but an auto-hof? I don't think so. Not even one of the four best pitchers of his era, and as low as about 8th depending on where you rate certain guys, clearly behind Clemens, Maddux, Randy and Pedro... Arguably behind Glavine, Brown and Halladay(yes overlapping eras, I think of an era as 5-10 years before and after a players career to avoid the silly Morris distinction) (and if you are a Rivera fan, I can see him being ahead of Schilling by some peoples methodology)
   32. valuearbitrageur Posted: December 30, 2012 at 03:10 PM (#4334660)
You can't dock Schilling for pitching in the same era with 4 other all time HOF worthy pitchers.

And Brown, Glavine, and Halladay are superficially similar to Schilling, but if you look at RA and post-season, they aren't even visible in his rear view mirror.

The weighted ballot makes a tremendous difference in MVP votes—and accounts heavily for the fact that MVP voting IS largely successful


What, is Bill James living in the 2011s?
   33. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 03:13 PM (#4334662)
And Brown, Glavine, and Halladay are superficially similar to Schilling, but if you look at RA


Dickey? C'mon, he's had one great season & he's in his late 30s. I love the guy, but I just don't see it.
   34. valuearbitrageur Posted: December 30, 2012 at 03:21 PM (#4334666)
I take it back about Roy, he really is earily like Schilling, more UER sure, but not a ton. His ERA+ even with decline years should end a little higher than Schilling, his post season, whil not Montague level, is very good, Both workhorses, Halladay doesn't have Schillings 4 250+ IP seasons, but the times have changed, he's still the main innings guy for his era.

Halladay should get there.
   35. valuearbitrageur Posted: December 30, 2012 at 03:24 PM (#4334668)

Dickey? C'mon, he's had one great season & he's in his late 30s. I love the guy, but I just don't see it.


RA is a lock. Now that he has figured out the power knuckler, only 8 more years like 2012, which should be trivial for a knuckleball pitcher.
   36. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 03:46 PM (#4334673)
I find your ideas fascinating, & it is incumbent upon me to request subscription details for your newsletter.
   37. TR_Sullivan Posted: December 30, 2012 at 04:03 PM (#4334679)
The Unforgiven.... a movie about the American West filmed in Canada
   38. cardsfanboy Posted: December 30, 2012 at 04:04 PM (#4334680)
And Brown, Glavine, and Halladay are superficially similar to Schilling, but if you look at RA and post-season, they aren't even visible in his rear view mirror.


Smoltz is superficially similar to Schilling. Brown had a higher peak even after accounting for runs allowed. Again I said arguably, but I see Brown as the peakier candidate, I'll take Browns five/six best years over Schillings everytime. Schilling gains ground with the career, but Brown was the better peak candidate. (note I do not pray to the altar of war for pitchers in the slightest)

But the point was that a slam dunk is not a guy who was at best fifth best in his era.

   39. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 04:07 PM (#4334683)
Prometheus ... a film about somewhere-the-hell-out-in-space filmed on Earth.
   40. puck Posted: December 30, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4334691)
Wow, people really like "The Grey," huh? From the description it sounded like it would be tense, but in an unpleasant way, like a shark attack movie on land.
   41. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 30, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4334692)
But it's so beautiful to look at.
   42. Booey Posted: December 30, 2012 at 04:47 PM (#4334698)
#26 - I don't know if this says more about me or you, but I've heard of literally zero of your top 10 movies. ;-)
   43. akrasian Posted: December 30, 2012 at 05:27 PM (#4334712)
#42 - he didn't say that the movies came out this year, just that he'd seen them this year. For instance, "M" is the film that made Peter Lorre a star in 1931, and is one of the great serial killer films of all time (and probably the first).

edit: and by "serial killer films" I mean films about a serial killer, not films that commit murders. Though the way the Nazis treated everyone associated with the film once they took power might make you wonder.
   44. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4334721)
one of the great serial killer films of all time (and probably the first).


Didn't Hitchcock's The Lodger come out a few years before that?
   45. bobm Posted: December 30, 2012 at 06:29 PM (#4334736)
[42] #26 - I don't know if this says more about me or you, but I've heard of literally zero of your top 10 movies. ;-)

I highly recommend "High and Low" and "M" and "Rififi." M is far more than a mere "serial killer" film IMO.
   46. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: December 30, 2012 at 06:42 PM (#4334744)
I'm a TCM nut but found "M" a bit of a chore to watch, 80 years on, because of the total lack of background music. The suspense and emotional tension eventually wins out.
   47. Der-K and the statistical werewolves. Posted: December 30, 2012 at 06:46 PM (#4334748)
M is pretty good.
   48. AndrewJ Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:29 PM (#4334770)
My all-time favorite movies:

The Godfather
Manhattan
Monty Python and the Holy Grail
Quiz Show
This is Spinal Tap
Topsy-Turvy
Young Frankenstein
   49. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:30 PM (#4334771)
#26 - I don't know if this says more about me or you, but I've heard of literally zero of your top 10 movies. ;-)

Tell you what: Rent them on Netflix, and if you give them an honest shot and don't like them, I'll pay for two months worth of your membership. They're all among the best movies of all time, though I should warn you that all of them except Absence of Malice, Intruder in the Dust and The Search have this scary thingy called subtitles, which some folks can't seem to get past.

-------------------------------------------

Didn't Hitchcock's The Lodger come out a few years before that?

It did, but the only version of that movie I've seen is the 1944 sound version starring Laird Cregar as Jack the Ripper, one of the creepiest performances (in the good sense) of all time. Though NTITAI, Louise Brooks's Lulu in Pandora's Box meets her fate at the hands of Jack the Ripper after she runs into him on the street and seduces him.

-------------------------------------------

I'm a TCM nut but found "M" a bit of a chore to watch, 80 years on, because of the total lack of background music. The suspense and emotional tension eventually wins out.

Background music as standard issue didn't really catch on until about the mid-1930's, but in the case of M, Lorre's continual whistling of The Hall of the Mountain King more than makes up for it. It's too bad that Lorre's only known for his roles in Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon, because I can hardly think of a single movie where he wasn't outstanding.
   50. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:36 PM (#4334779)
It's too bad that Lorre's only known for his roles in Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon, because I can hardly think of a single movie where he wasn't outstanding.

this may be the exception, Andy
   51. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:38 PM (#4334780)
I've compiled a running Excel file of the roughly 3000 feature films and shorts I've recorded over the past 3+ years, complete with ratings for the 2000 or so that I've seen at least once. If I ever considered copying and pasting that particular hedge against future memory loss, I'd be thinking more of a hostage situation than anything relating to positive resonance.
I believe that this is also known as "Plaintiff's Exhibit A" in MPAA vs. Andy.


And I've seen two this year -- Argo and the Hobbit -- which is one more than last year. Kids.
   52. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:39 PM (#4334781)
M is fantastic. Thin Man movies (mentioned above), also classic. To Be Or Not To Be (the Jack Benny/Carole Lombard original), top-notch. Any Marx Bros movie. Most key Jimmy Stewart flicks...I could go on for literally DAYS about old movies....

EDIT: Almost forgot Three Strangers! If you mention Lorre (or Sydney Greenstreet AKA THE Nero Wolfe....did I mention I am an absolute sucker for OTR?), you have to throw that out there.
   53. Mike Webber Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:46 PM (#4334786)
which is one more than last year. Kids.


Kids is a perfect excuse to see stuff like Wreck it Ralph!
   54. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 30, 2012 at 07:51 PM (#4334792)
It's too bad that Lorre's only known for his roles in Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon, because I can hardly think of a single movie where he wasn't outstanding.

this may be the exception, Andy


Well, since according to your link, Lorre was literally given 51st billing, I'm not sure that his role could have consisted on much more than an impromptu whistling of Chopin's Funeral March while Frankie Avalon and Annette Funicello were plotting some mass murder on the beach.

------------------------------------------

I believe that this is also known as "Plaintiff's Exhibit A" in MPAA vs. Andy.

Hey, glad to see you're alive, old buddy. Where you been keeping yourself?
   55. Cowboy Popup Posted: December 30, 2012 at 08:01 PM (#4334797)
It's too bad that Lorre's only known for his roles in Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon, because I can hardly think of a single movie where he wasn't outstanding.

I think people still remember him for Arsenic and Old Lace too.

Movies I saw this year, in order of how much I enjoyed them (sorta hard to distinguish in the middle. Fortunately, I enjoyed all of them, except maybe the Avengers:

Moonrise Kingdom
The Secret World of Arriety
The Master
Dark Knight Rises
Brave
Wreck-It-Ralph
21 Jump Street
Haywire
Avengers

I also recently saw the Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. That was a great film. Made me want watch a Kurosawa samurai flick right after (I settled for Samurai Champloo's take on Yojimbo). Really a great film.
   56. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 30, 2012 at 08:37 PM (#4334812)
To Have and Have Not
any Marx Bros up to and including Day at the Races
Badlands
Miller's Crossing
The Lady Vanishes
Chinatown
Aguirre, Der Zorn Gottes
The Last American Hero
Seven Days in May
Pickup on South Street
The Tenant
Repulsion
Great Expectations (David Lean's version)
   57. chisoxcollector Posted: December 30, 2012 at 08:46 PM (#4334822)
I think people still remember him for Arsenic and Old Lace too.


I'm a huge Cary Grant fan, but I can't stand this movie. So many stupid things happen I just get pissed off watching it.

Here are the 2012 movies that I have seen thus far, in order of enjoyment (with Criticker score):

Moonrise Kingdom (80)
Looper (80)
Cabin in the Woods (75)
Skyfall (75)
Avengers (75)
Wreck-It Ralph (75)
Frankenweenie (75)
21 Jump Street (70)
Dark Knight Rises (70)
Raid: Redemption (70)
Woman in Black (70)
Prometheus (65)
Hunger Games (65)
Haywire (65)
Dark Shadows (60)
Journey 2 Mysterious Island (Don't ask) (50)

Missed a lot of promising films in the theater this year. Still hope to catch Argo, Lincoln, Django Unchained, Zero Dark Thirty, Silver Linings Playbook, and The Hobbit in theaters.
   58. McCoy Posted: December 30, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4334830)
Cabin in the Woods
Ted
Lincoln
End of Watch
Seeking a Friend for the End of the World.

   59. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 30, 2012 at 09:38 PM (#4334859)
#56 - Love Happy was iffy, but no love for A Night In Casablanca? Possibly the source of one of the greatest letters ever written???
   60. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 30, 2012 at 09:39 PM (#4334861)
   61. JJ1986 Posted: December 30, 2012 at 09:42 PM (#4334864)
#56 - Love Happy was iffy, but no love for A Night In Casablanca? Possibly the source of one of the greatest letters ever written???


Go West is also at least decent.
   62. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 30, 2012 at 09:46 PM (#4334869)
# 61 - Indeed!

That'll be 9 dollars change please....
   63. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 09:49 PM (#4334874)
And At the Circus has this jim dandy gem:

Lydia the Tattooed Lady
   64. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 09:55 PM (#4334878)
56: that's a really good list. You had a good year movie-wise.

26: That's a pretty good list, too. Is the High and Low Pabst's or Kurosawa's?

   65. bobm Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:00 PM (#4334880)
[56 ] Aguirre, Der Zorn Gottes...

I enjoyed Fitzcarraldo, too.

Pickup on South Street

Fuller's other films (Big Red One, Park Row, Steel Helmet) are also entertaining.
   66. Every Inge Counts Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:05 PM (#4334884)
Movies I saw in the theaters in 2012
Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol
The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo
Sherlock Holmes: Game of Shadows
Haywire
John Carter
21 Jump Street
American Reunion
The Cabin in the Woods
The Avengers
The Raid: Redemption
The Dictator
The Best Exotic Marigold Hotel
Prometheus
Snow White and the Huntsman
Cool Hand Luke
Moonrise Kingdom
The Amazing Spiderman
Brave
Beasts of the Southern Wild
Premium Rush
Lawless
Celeste and Jesse Forever
Looper
The Master
Argo
Skyfall
Lincoln
The Sessions
Killing them Softly


That is all.
Best movie I saw this year....Goon
   67. JJ1986 Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4334890)
And At the Circus has this jim dandy gem:


At the Circus is good as long as you're watching it on DVD and can skip all of the horrible romantic subplot that culminates in a man leading his finacee through a horse-dancing routine.
   68. Hack Wilson Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:13 PM (#4334891)
[56 ] Aguirre, Der Zorn Gottes...

I enjoyed Fitzcarraldo, too.


I saw them at a double feature at the Biograph Theatre in Chicago-which is better known for something else.
   69. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:17 PM (#4334893)
Yeah, except for Duck Soup, Horsefeathers, and Monkey Business, all the Marx Brothers movies have parts that need to be skipped. Well, Animal Crackers, too, I guess, except that it is such a primitive talkie that the technological constraints sometimes really creak.
   70. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:20 PM (#4334894)
I'm a huge Cary Grant fan, but I can't stand this movie. So many stupid things happen I just get pissed off watching it.


It is a stupid movie, and everyone overplays. Grant hated his performance, and I don't think
Capra was simpatico with the material. I like it; it's fun, but I can see its critics' point. Grant is too frenetic--the director needed to tell him to dial it down, just as Hawks in His Girl Friday kept telling him to dial it up.
   71. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:23 PM (#4334896)
#69 - That is a big part of why I like Cocoanuts and Animal Crackers so much, it's more a filming of a vaudeville sketch then it is a movie. Horse Feathers and Monkey Business seem much more polished.
   72. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:25 PM (#4334899)
Some of Lorre's Mr. Moto movies are fun, if you can pocket your PC sensibilities for the time it takes to see the movie.

Lorre, besides M, is better in small doses. In fact, in most his movies he wasn't even ever the prime supporting player. In Casablanca he has only a few minutes face time. And in some, like Beat the Devil, he's really not more than window dressing. He's good with Vincent Price in what should have been his swan song, The Comedy of Terrors, where they parody themselves. And his role there is substantial.
   73. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:28 PM (#4334902)
71: yeah, there is a fresh improvisational quality to those two early talkies of theirs. I really like Animal Crackers. Groucho has a great song and dictates a mean letter and does a spot on parody of Eugene O'Neil. Cocoanuts is really sluggish in spots, but it has a couple of nice set pieces (that entering into a contract bit is great).
   74. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:41 PM (#4334911)
#73 - Love the 'clerk' bit in Casablanca, with 'Mr and Mrs Smythe'. Classic
   75. TerpNats Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:43 PM (#4334914)
25 of my all-time favorite films, more or less in chronological order:

Broken Blossoms
Girl Shy
The Crowd
Show People
The Smiling Lieutenant
One Way Passage
Horse Feathers
It Happened One Night
Twentieth Century
My Man Godfrey
Libeled Lady
Stagecoach
The Shop Around The Corner
Citizen Kane
To Be Or Not To Be
Double Indemnity
Sunset Boulevard
All About Eve
Singin' In The Rain
Macao
On The Waterfront
The Apartment
A Hard Day's Night
Sleeper
The Purple Rose Of Cairo
   76. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:47 PM (#4334918)
Great stuff on that list, Terp! I'd recommend just about every single movie on that list to those who haven't seen then.

Except Hard Days Night.
   77. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:49 PM (#4334921)
Prometheus ... a film about somewhere-the-hell-out-in-space filmed on Earth.

Prometheus ... a film about ... definitely something. Well, I am sure it made sense to someone. Probably.
   78. Morty Causa Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:56 PM (#4334929)
That's a great list, #75. Including A Hard Day's Night.
   79. chisoxcollector Posted: December 30, 2012 at 10:59 PM (#4334933)
Great list Terp. I've seen about 2/3 of your list, and love every one I've seen. Including A Hard Day's Night!

My list would skew MUCH more recent. While I love tons of classic films, not many of them seem to be able to penetrate my pantheon. I just connect with them the same way I do a great modern movie. There are a couple of exceptions. I'll drop my list in a bit.
   80. TerpNats Posted: December 30, 2012 at 11:48 PM (#4334958)
Glad people generally liked the list. I concede it's skewed toward the "classic" era (particularly the 1930s) because to me that's the decade when American moviemaking most permeated our society. Most people then went to the movies regularly, and films found a way to appeal to diverse audiences in a way they haven't since 1950 or so, when the dual demons of television and suburbanization spelled the end of the moviegoing habit for many. And the list is also skewed toward comedy, but when William Powell and Carole Lombard are your all-time favorite actor and actress (and Ernst Lubitsch your all-time favorite director), one can't help it.

I feel a bit guilty about some of the talents who aren't represented in the 25 -- Chaplin, Keaton, Hitchcock, Cary Grant, Irene Dunne -- but rest assured their work would certainly appear in a second tier of 25. And there are a few offbeat choices, not just "A Hard Day's Night" (the film that both captures the spirit of the '60s and defines why the Beatles were beloved), but "Macao" (Mitchum and Russell have wonderful chemistry, and I prefer this to "His Kind Of Woman") and "Horse Feathers" (sorry, but there was no way Margaret Dumont was going to play a college widow, so Thelma Todd makes a sexy substitute). And while "Safety Last" is a classic, "Girl Shy" is wittier and has a brilliant, multimodal chase sequence through 1924 Los Angeles.
   81. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 31, 2012 at 12:13 AM (#4334978)
when William Powell and Carole Lombard are your all-time favorite actor and actress (and Ernst Lubitsch your all-time favorite director),


I now see why we have a similar taste in film.
   82. Karl from NY Posted: December 31, 2012 at 12:32 AM (#4334999)
1)  I have made numerous efforts to define and measure clutch performance, none of which has been at all successful or has created any resonance in the analytical community

Maybe because the analytical community measures clutch performance by methods James didn't create? We've had Leverage Index for a few years now, and in turn WPA/LI. Those work fine.

James had the fortune of seeing a number of pet inventions catch on: Game Score, Similarity Scores, Favorite Toy. But those are constructed with arbitrary numbers and adjustments that James cobbled together because they felt good and passed a smell test. I'd like to see something with more mathematical rigor replace those systems, as Leverage Index has kept out James' other attempts at clutch performance. Like, the positional factors in Similarity Scores should be able to be derived from WAR fielding positional adjustments. Favorite Toy could and should also be based on real-world data, like the actual historical distribution of remaining seasons for a 35-year-old shortstop.
   83. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 31, 2012 at 12:37 AM (#4335003)
56: that's a really good list. You had a good year movie-wise.

thank you Morty--but I'm embarrassed that I didn't include Singin' In The Rain
   84. TerpNats Posted: December 31, 2012 at 12:41 AM (#4335009)
Poster, if you're not aware of the classic Hollywood site I run focusing on the lovely Lombard, Carole & Co., please check it out.
   85. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 31, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4335016)
Terp, thank you VERY much! Love it!
   86. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: December 31, 2012 at 12:56 AM (#4335018)
Some of Lorre's Mr. Moto movies are fun, if you can pocket your PC sensibilities for the time it takes to see the movie.

Lorre, besides M, is better in small doses. In fact, in most his movies he wasn't even ever the prime supporting player.

he and Greenstreet were very good in The Mask Of Dimitrios
   87. PreservedFish Posted: December 31, 2012 at 12:58 AM (#4335020)
I enjoyed the fact that the most recent film on Terp's list is itself about old film nostalgia.
   88. Morty Causa Posted: December 31, 2012 at 01:05 AM (#4335026)
Pretty much agree with the criteria expressed in the first paragraph of #80 above. As I've said on a number of occasions, I don't watch anything but old movies practically. The ones below make are 25 of my favorites that I viewed (well, re-watched really) this year. I could have named a totally different 25 that I think just as highly of, though:

Trouble In Paradise
Top Hat (or Swing Time)
It's A Wonderful Life
Hide-Out
Destry Rides Again
His Girl Friday
Bringing Up Baby
Sullivan's Travels
The Great McGinty
The Lady Eve
How Green Was My Valley
The Searchers
Comanche Station
The Big Sleep (Hawks)
Vertigo
Rear Window
The More the Merrier
Easy Living
North By Northwest
Psycho
The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp
El Cid
The Far Country
Heaven Can Wait (Lubtsch)
Out of the Past
   89. Morty Causa Posted: December 31, 2012 at 01:10 AM (#4335033)
thank you Morty--but I'm embarrassed that I didn't include Singin' In The Rain


If you see a lot of movies, especially classics, there comes a time when you come probably do a total substitution on your list, like I said. Singin' in the Rain is great, but so are those others. Sometimes you just have to go with the feeling of the moment.Again, like I said.
   90. bookbook Posted: December 31, 2012 at 01:21 AM (#4335039)
Petition drive to get Dan Szymborski to remake the official favorite toy.
   91. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: December 31, 2012 at 01:49 AM (#4335063)
26: That's a pretty good list, too. Is the High and Low Pabst's or Kurosawa's?

Kurosawa's. Didn't even know about Pabst's, but now I do, and thanks for the tip.

--------------------------------

BTW for anyone who wonders what it is that some of us see in "old" movies, check out the December, January & February schedules for TCM. For those not aware of this network, it's the only non-premium cable network solely devoted to the 24/7 screening of "classic" movies, always shown uninterrupted without commercials.

TCM Schedule December 2012 Star of the Month - Barbara Stanwyck, with 55 of her films

TCM Schedule January 2013 Star of the Month - Loretta Young, with over 40 of her films, the majority pre-codes made before mid-1934

TCM Schedule February 2013 - February is always devoted entirely to Oscar-winning films in all categories, and since its official title is "31 Days of Oscar", it actually runs through March 3rd.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that TCM is one of the most important institutions for cultural preservation in the United States. There's nothing else remotely like it anywhere AFAICT, at least in the English-speaking world. Imagine a non-premium TV network where you could see complete videos of many thousands of baseball games going back to the beginning of the 20th century, both the famous games and the obscure midweek snoozers between the Browns and the Macks, and you'll get an idea of what an amazing treasure trove TCM is.

   92. Poster Nutbag Posted: December 31, 2012 at 02:18 AM (#4335076)
Agree with 91 RE: TCM. Also have the same feeling for the Internet Archive, which houses just about every OTR show and some great news broadcasts, a little bit of everything, etc.
   93. Tom Nawrocki Posted: December 31, 2012 at 02:24 AM (#4335078)
Peter Lorre was fantastic in two early Hitchcocks, The Man Who Knew Too Much and Secret Agent. He even makes those Mr. Moto movies fun.
   94. TerpNats Posted: December 31, 2012 at 02:26 AM (#4335080)
Loretta Young's films will run Wednesday nights in January, usually going into Thursday mornings, honoring the centenary of her birth on Jan. 6. I must admit that I had never been much of a Young fan, thinking her this prim and proper Catholic (who strayed, got pregnant by Clark Gable on location shooting "Call Of The Wild," had the daughter in secret, then gained adoptive custody and never admitted she had actually borne her until she was on her deathbed). But set that aside for a moment and focus on her films, particularly those from the pre-Code period:

* She is ethereal in her beauty, comparable to Gene Tierney at her peak or, on the blonde side, Lombard or Michelle Pfeiffer.
* She played a slew of really sexy roles, including "Employees' Entrance" with Warren William (king of pre-Code cads) and the William Wellman-directed "Midnight Mary," and she's very good in them.
* She made many of these films at an astoundingly youthful age. Her first starring role, opposite Lon Chaney (Senior!) in the silent "Laugh, Clown, Laugh," came when she was 15. She played a big-city newspaper reporter in Frank Capra's "Platinum Blonde" at 18 (Jean Harlow, the titular character, was all of 20). The pre-Code era ended in mid-1934, a few months after she turned 21.
* For decades, few of these films were available, as they were deemed too racy for family television packages in the '50s and '60s, so this side of Loretta receded from view. When they finally emerged, first through the original incarnation of TNT, then with TCM after it began in 1994, it was a revelation. (Forget Ted Turner's brief foray into colorization; he more than made up for it with his work preserving the film libraries he accumulated.) Suffice it to say that, with the possible exception of Norma Shearer, no actress' reputation was more rehabilitated from the pre-Code revival than Loretta Young, and I'm glad to say she experienced some of that before she left us in August 2000.

If the only Loretta you know is from her later films or TV anthology series (and she deserves credit for being a smart businesswoman), you're in for a treat.
   95. chisoxcollector Posted: December 31, 2012 at 02:31 AM (#4335082)
My list is below. These are my 25 FAVORITE, not a list of the 25 best. It's a blend of what I consider to be great movies (Out of the Past), movies that have me grinning from ear to ear during the entire runtime (Joe Versus the Volcano), movies that spark up nostalgia (Titanic), movies boosted by an amazing performance (The Wrestler), and movies whose originality can't be overlooked (Eternal Sunshine). I have no illusions that all of the films on my list are great. The only thing I can pretty much guarantee is that there probably isn't another list quite like mine.

Top 28 (had a hard time finding 3 more to eliminate), in chronological order:

Casablanca
Notorious
Out of the Past
Once Upon a Time in the West
Blade Runner
Die Hard
Cry Baby
Edward Scissorhands
Joe Versus the Volcano
Before Sunrise
Titanic
Out of Sight
Rushmore
Almost Famous
In the Mood for Love
Memento
Minority Report
Kill Bill (Volume 1 if I have to pick one)
Lost in Translation (my all-time favorite film)
Love Actually
Before Sunset
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Before Sunset
The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou
Brick
The Last Kiss
The Wrestler
(500) Days of Summer
   96. Jack Carter, calling Beleaguered Castle Posted: December 31, 2012 at 02:34 AM (#4335085)
I'm a little confused by that answer to the second question in the excerpt. If none of his efforts to define and measure clutch performance have been at all successful, why would they create resonance in the analytical community?

My sarcastotronica is probably broken, but I'm sure that's supposed to be a "nor" there.


I think James meant that there are useful failures, on the order of, he was not able to prove clutch hitting or pitching existed, but his efforts spurred people in the analytical community to do more and interesting research--something he felt didn't happen.

If anything exists I'll guess it's clutch pitching. It seems more possible to dial up a certain pitch or short sequence of pitches than it does to suddenly decide to see more clearly or react faster.

Yeah, casting a list in terms of "favorite" is always in some defensible. Interesting choices, though. Selections without explanations beg to be ignored. What would be interesting would be to know what movies he's seen--how widely "read" is he?

Being There?


"Favorite" is interesting when compared to "Best" or "Greatest".

There are a number of movies I recognize as great, but don't want to watch often or in a couple of cases, ever again; I also recognize that some of the movies I've watched the most just aren't all that good. I'm guessing most people also distinguish between Favorite and Greatest.

Top 10 movies I've watched this year, in alphabetical order:

Absence of Malice...


Speaking of Newman, have you caught The Verdict? A bit ordinary in places, but talk about a top shelf cast, and I love that it dealt with redemption in old age.

Background music as standard issue didn't really catch on until about the mid-1930's, but in the case of M, Lorre's continual whistling of The Hall of the Mountain King more than makes up for it. It's too bad that Lorre's only known for his roles in Casablanca and The Maltese Falcon, because I can hardly think of a single movie where he wasn't outstanding.


Speaking of one of the least attractive actors who ever acted, I was thinking the other day how small a handicap it is to not be handsome when we're talking about the great actors. It doesn't hurt, and I'm not saying Clooney is one of the all-time greats, but especially since Pacino got started being Clooney-handsome hasn't been a prerequisite (if it ever was--think Bogie, who was good-looking as a juvenile lead, but pretty quickly got pretty ugly).

Great stuff in #75, but I admit to being completely confused at the love for The Apartment. It was slow, not very deep, and there are very few memorable lines or scenes for a film that's gotten such good press for such a long time.

Prometheus ... a film about somewhere-the-hell-out-in-space filmed on Earth.

Prometheus ... a film about ... definitely something. Well, I am sure it made sense to someone. Probably.


Man, that was as disappointing as any movie I've seen in a while. I had reasonably high hopes, but from the science to the plot holes to the dialogue to the ridiculous behavior no scientist would ever engage in, it was all but unwatchable.

Great stuff in post 82. I've thought for a long time it would be worth millions of bucks in research costs to any team that could nail down a reliable version of sim scores.
   97. PreservedFish Posted: December 31, 2012 at 02:47 AM (#4335096)
Top 28 (had a hard time finding 3 more to eliminate)...


I found one:

Love Actually


edit > Also, listing Before Sunset only once would eliminate another one. But maybe you just like it that much?
   98. TerpNats Posted: December 31, 2012 at 03:00 AM (#4335102)
Oh, and regarding TCM, for many of its fans, their least favorite month is February ("31 Days Of Oscar"). Not that the films aren't good, but there's only a limited number the channel can choose from (films that were either Oscar winners or nominees). It's as if for one month, your favorite free-form FM station was stuck playing the likes of "Respect," "Satisfaction," "Proud Mary" and "Eight Days A Week."

In contrast, TCM fans cherish "Summer Under The Stars," an annual August event since 2003 in which every day of the month is dedicated to 24 hours (starting at 6 a.m. Eastern or so) of a particular star. The channel blends the familiar (John Wayne, James Stewart, Katharine Hepburn, Bette Davis) with relatively obscure stars (last year featured the likes of Eva Marie Saint, child star Freddie Bartholomew and pre-Code fave Kay Francis), even an international star or two (in past years, SUTS has included Jean Gabin and Toshiro Mifune). Here's the complete list of SUTS honorees (from Aug. 1 to 31 each year); it's pretty diverse:

August 2012
John Wayne, Myrna Loy, Johnny Weismuller, Marilyn Monroe, Claude Rains, Van Heflin, Sidney Poitier, Rita Hayworth, Toshiro Mifune, Lionel Barrymore, James Mason, Ginger Rogers, Deborah Kerr, James Cagney, Lillian Gish, Elvis Presley, Katharine Hepburn, Freddie Bartholomew, Eva Marie Saint, Anthony Quinn, Kay Francis, Jack Lemmon, Gene Kelly, Irene Dunne, Tyrone Power, Gary Cooper, Jeanette MacDonald, Ava Gardner, James Caan, Warren William, Ingrid Bergman

August 2011
Marlon Brando, Paulette Goddard, Bette Davis, Ronald Colman, John Garfield, Lucille Ball, Charles Laughton, Orson Welles, Ann Dvorak, Shirley MacLaine, Ben Johnson, Claudette Colbert, James Stewart, Ralph Bellamy, Lon Chaney, Joanne Woodward, Humphrey Bogart, Jean Gabin, Debbie Reynolds, Montgomery Clift, Cary Grant, Joan Crawford, Conrad Veidt, Joan Blondell, Burt Lancaster, Peter Lawford, Linda Darnell, Carole Lombard, Anne Francis, Howard Keel, Marlene Dietrich

August 2010
Basil Rathbone, Julie Christie, Steve McQueen, Ethel Barrymore, Woody Strode, Ingrid Bergman, Errol Flynn, Bob Hope, Warren Beatty, Kathryn Grayson, Walter Matthau, Norma Shearer, Robert Ryan, Gene Tierney, Margaret O'Brien, Robert Stack, Maureen O'Hara, Ann Sheridan, Walter Pidgeon, Katharine Hepburn, Paul Newman, John Mills, Elizabeth Taylor, John Gilbert, Lauren Bacall, Lee Remick, Olivia de Havilland, Peter O'Toole, Henry Fonda, Thelma Todd, Clint Eastwood

August 2009
Henry Fonda, James Mason, Marion Davies, James Coburn, Harold Lloyd, Judy Garland, Glenn Ford, Bette Davis, Cary Grant, Dirk Bogarde, Audrey Hepburn, Clark Gable, Gloria Grahame, Sidney Poitier, Deborah Kerr, Elvis Presley, Jennifer Jones, John Wayne, Red Skelton, Miriam Hopkins, Gene Hackman, Sterling Hayden, Angela Lansbury, Fredric March, Merle Oberon, Yul Brynner, Ida Lupino, Frank Sinatra, Peter Sellers, Jean Arthur, Claire Bloom

August 2008
Michael Caine, Charlie Chaplin, Gregory Peck, Marie Dressler, Claude Rains, Anne Bancroft, Greta Garbo, James Garner, Fred MacMurray, Doris Day, Richard Widmark, Kim Novak, Peter Lorre, Greer Garson, Rita Hayworth, Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Jack Palance, Barbara Stanwyck, Edward G. Robinson, Ava Gardner, Trevor Howard, Stan Laurel & Oliver Hardy, Henry Fonda, Ingrid Bergman, Janet Leigh, Tony Curtis, Charlton Heston, Marlon Brando, Katharine Hepburn, Spencer Tracy

August 2007
Elizabeth Taylor, Peter O’Toole, Joan Crawford, William Holden, James Stewart, Robert Mitchum, Jane Russell, Dana Andrews, Myrna Loy, Vincent Price, Doris Day, Alan Ladd, June Allyson, Ernest Borgnine, Joan Bennett, Elvis Presley, Maureen O’Hara, Spencer Tracy, Errol Flynn, Rosalind Russell, Gary Cooper, Ann Miller, Jane Fonda, Ronald Reagan, Broderick Crawford, Kirk Douglas, Loretta Young, Roy Rogers, Mary Astor, Buster Keaton, Sean Connery

August 2006
Angela Lansbury, Groucho Marx, Susan Hayward, Gregory Peck, Humphrey Bogart, Doris Day, Burt Lancaster, Claire Trevor, Jane Powell, John Garfield, Katharine Hepburn, Rock Hudson, Walter Matthau, Lana Turner, Richard Dix, Joseph Cotten, Carole Lombard, Bela Lugosi, Audrey Hepburn, Lee Marvin, David Niven, Rita Hayworth, Van Johnson, Ann Sothern, James Stewart, Cary Grant, John Wayne, Hedy Lamarr, Ingrid Bergman, Sidney Poitier, Barbara Stanwyck

August 2005
Lauren Bacall, James Cagney, Joel McCrea, Alec Guinness, Katharine Hepburn, John Wayne, Judy Garland, Shelley Winters, Ray Milland, Lena Horne, Kirk Douglas, Jane Wyman, Cary Grant, Glenn Ford, Fred Astaire, Donna Reed, James Garner, Irene Dunne, Marlon Brando, James Stewart, Maureen O'Hara, Joan Crawford, Basil Rathbone, Sophia Loren, Norma Shearer, Randolph Scott, Spencer Tracy, William Holden, Constance Bennett, Deborah Kerr, Humphrey Bogart

August 2004
John Wayne, Barbara Stanwyck, Bob Hope, Debbie Reynolds, Sidney Poitier, Lucille Ball, Katharine Hepburn, Clint Eastwood, Ava Gardner, Henry Fonda, Jean Harlow, Laurence Olivier, Doris Day, Humphrey Bogart, Burt Lancaster, Elvis Presley, Elizabeth Taylor, Edward G. Robinson, Bette Davis, Peter Sellers, James Stewart, Olivia de Havilland, Ginger Rogers, Charlie Chaplin, Shirley MacLaine, Claudette Colbert, Cary Grant, Gary Cooper, Gregory Peck, Esther Williams, Kirk Douglas

August 2003
James Stewart, Clint Eastwood, Peter O'Toole, Joan Crawford, Fred Astaire, Robert Mitchum, James Cagney, Elizabeth Taylor, Cary Grant, Jack Lemmon, Frank Sinatra, Greta Garbo, Gary Cooper, Charlton Heston, Katharine Hepburn, Steve McQueen, Gene Kelly, Marlene Dietrich, Gregory Peck, Humphrey Bogart, Judy Garland, Clark Gable, John Wayne, Myrna Loy, Kirk Douglas, Lana Turner, Bette Davis, Spencer Tracy, Paul Newman, Doris Day, William Holden
   99. chisoxcollector Posted: December 31, 2012 at 03:10 AM (#4335106)
Top 28 (had a hard time finding 3 more to eliminate)...



I found one:

Love Actually


More than any other on the list, I consider that a guilty pleasure. Even though my brain is telling me it's an awful movie, I grin like an idiot for most of it's runtime. I'm also a sucker for Christmas.

edit > Also, listing Before Sunset only once would eliminate another one. But maybe you just like it that much?


Doh! I guess it's a top 27 list!
   100. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: December 31, 2012 at 03:38 AM (#4335117)
Didn't even know about Pabst's, but now I do, and thanks for the tip.

Well of the many things you have been accused of, being a hipster has never been one of them.
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