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Wednesday, August 18, 2010

The Book Blog: MGL: Understanding DIPS

Where context is Jimmy Key.

Well, here is the deal. There ARE some pitchers who are true .280 pitchers.  And some that are even true .275 pitchers.  And possibly even .270 pitchers.  We already told you that when we told you that the SD of BABIP true talent among MLB pitchers was 7 points!  That means by definition that there likely are some of these pitchers in existence (not necessarily at the present time of course).  It is just that we don’t know who they are!  And there are so few of them, as compared to the many, many more who are near average, that if we find a pitcher who posts a low BABIP in 1 or even 2 or 3 seasons, it is much more likely that he is near average and got lucky than he is a true low BABIP guy.  So we just automatically assume that he is somewhere in between, but much closer to average.

Even though we might call him a .293 pitcher (say, .270 heavily regressed toward .300), what we really mean is that there is a 20% chance he is a .300 pitcher who got lucky, 15% chance he is a .299 pitcher who got lucky, a 10% chance he is a .298 pitcher who got lucky….all the way down to a 1% chance he is a true .280 pitcher, and a .1% chance he is a true .270 pitcher, exactly equal to his sample BABIP.”

So yes, he could be another Mo Rivera, who is likely 2 or 3 SD’s from the mean in BABIP.  But we simply don’t know that yet until we have 15 or 20 years from the guy at a .270 or .280 clip, and even then we are not 100% sure what he is.  At that point, the numbers will change to, “20% chance he is a .275 pitcher, 15% chance he is a .280 pitcher who got lucky, 10% a .285 pitcher who got lucky, etc.”

Repoz Posted: August 18, 2010 at 11:55 AM | 4 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: history, projections, sabermetrics

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   1. Tricky Dick Posted: August 18, 2010 at 02:09 PM (#3619090)
One final thing. If we know something else about the pitcher other than his BABIP numbers, we can and should certainly change the way we do the math - at least change the mean we are regressing toward. If he throws 95 mph like a Nolan Ryan, maybe the mean BABIP for all pitchers like that is .295 rather than .300 (I don’t know). If he throws a knuckleball, like Wakefield, the mean BABIP is probably lower too.


This seems like a very good point, even though it is tossed out as a closing thought. Has anyone done studies of the statistical difference between mean BABIP for pitchers with different fastball velocities?
   2. Mike Fast Posted: August 18, 2010 at 05:37 PM (#3619372)
Tricky Dick, yes, this thread, post #8:
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/danvenport_translations_strasburg/
   3. Voros McCracken, Human Shield Posted: August 18, 2010 at 06:54 PM (#3619489)
TD,

That was one of the main things I wanted to do back in the day as a means of addressing why the high strikeout guys did a little better than the low strikeout guys in the stat. Obviously back in 2001/2002 there were data issues that were insurmountable at that point. Truth be told, they probably still are until we have several years more worth of data. The big difficulty here is that with differences this small you likely need large sample sizes to ferret out exactly what's going on.
   4. Tricky Dick Posted: August 18, 2010 at 11:25 PM (#3619793)
Fast, thanks for the link to your post. Like you said, it doesn't appear that the impact of velocity on BABIP is all that straightforward. You mention the point that FB velocity will increase the speed off the bat, which might produce more hits with contact. Also, it seems to me that movement on the pitch probably is more important than velocity for inducing weak contact. A lot of 95+ mph pitchers have a relatively straight fastball.

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