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Wednesday, March 04, 2009

The Book Blog: Tango: Peer-reviewing bloggers

(ahem)...Interesting stuff from Tango and even more in the Comments section.

Friend of The Book RJ Anderson made a post at 6AM this morning about Longoria probably having the best rookie season for 3B of all time.  Less than 2 hours later, Repoz linked to it, where people noticed that Dick Allen was conspicuous by his absence.  Rob Neyer undoubtedbly read that thread, did his own research and by noon (no timestamp on his post, but there are on his commenters) noted how Longoria’s Win Shares was simply unimpressive for RJ to have made such a statement.  RJ took note of the comments and research and said “I completely missed Allen for reasons mentioned above. Inexcusable on my part.”.

Now, THAT is how blogging works: one big community that listens to each other, even though we are not part of the same family.  Furthermore, the “weight” of each blogger is implicitly noted.  Neyer for example is highly respected, and he reads a fairly-well respected aggregator of news and blog activity (Primer) that is driven by a well-respected blogger (Repoz) who himself probably has some respect of DRaysBay or RJ.  So, the “peer” determination is community-credentialed, much the way that Google’s search engine works.  For example, if alot of people link to Tangotiger.net when they talk about “Linear Weights”, then a search for “Linear Weights” on Google will give you Tangotiger.net, even though no one has come out and explicitly credentialed my site as an expert on the topic.  (Checking now… yup, my site comes in at #1.  Yay!  Wonder if I should put that on my tombstone.) The entire dynamics of the blogging world is fascinating on many levels.

Repoz Posted: March 04, 2009 at 06:46 PM | 36 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: baseball geeks, reviews, site news, special topics

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:12 PM (#3092408)
Still no reason to title your blog post: "Some young bloggers need a little seasoning" and include a closing line to this effect: "I love the young bloggers. They're our future. But sometimes old geezers like me and Furman Bisher bring a little something to the table, too."

P.S. I see that there was a follow-up blog post from Neyer and that all is well.

Never mind.
   2. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq. Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:14 PM (#3092415)
This is why I regularly link to my facebook page with the words "world's greatest lover"
   3. Maury Brown Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:15 PM (#3092418)
Still no reason to title your blog post: "Some <strike>young</strike> bloggers need a little seasoning" and include a closing line to this effect: "I love the <strike>young</strike> bloggers. They're our future. But sometimes old geezers like me and Furman Bisher bring a little something to the table, too."
Fixed.
   4. Craig Calcaterra Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:36 PM (#3092460)
I agree completely with Tango's post, but man, it would be a lot easier to comment on one-another's blog posts if bloggers didn't disable copying and pasting on their pages.
   5. SoSH U at work Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3092472)
well-respected blogger (Repoz)


I can't imagine he's ever been described quite that way before.
   6. robneyer Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:43 PM (#3092476)
Well, again ... I don't write the headlines, so I would rather people didn't get hung up on them. And everything I wrote about R.J. Anderson was in the best of spirits. We like one another. -r
   7. Crispix reaches boiling point with lackluster play Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:50 PM (#3092491)
Maybe we shouldn't include the headlines at all when linking to stories, just say "Neyer addresses half-assed blogger's Longoria claims" or something. I'm serious. People get so hung up on headlines.
   8. Tango Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:54 PM (#3092500)
"if bloggers didn't disable copying and pasting on their pages"

Can you point to an example?
   9. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:56 PM (#3092503)
De-flanneled Would-Be Team Stealer Educates Lowry Salt Seasoned Booger, Uh, We Mean Blogger, Sorry About That, Spellcheck Missed It As 'Booger' Is Spelled Correctly And The Software Ignores Usage
   10. Esoteric Posted: March 04, 2009 at 07:59 PM (#3092507)
SoSH U beat me to it: since when is Repoz "respected?" The scoundrel!
   11. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:00 PM (#3092509)
Anyone want to review this? I got very little feedback on it.
   12. Phenomenal Smith Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:01 PM (#3092515)
Tango is the Mussolini of bloggers.
   13. rr Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:07 PM (#3092527)
Anyone want to review this? I got very little feedback on it.


I read it when you sent me the link before; I thought it was a well-done article, particularly in terms of detail and sequencing. However, it did not answer my main questions about Bowie Kuhn, which are: Was he on steroids? Did he regularly hook up with call girls?

But those will be answered in the bio, you said.
   14. Craig Calcaterra Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:14 PM (#3092538)
Can you point to an example?


I was having a hard time copying text on yours a few minutes ago, Tom. Was it just me? I'll admit it may be, but I haven't had that trouble anywhere else.
   15. rlc Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:16 PM (#3092539)
This is why I regularly link to my facebook page with the words "world's greatest lover"

Your reputation for self-love is much commented on, Larry.

In slightly different words.
   16. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:19 PM (#3092543)
Was he on steroids? Did he regularly hook up with call girls?

But those will be answered in the bio, you said.


No one will buy the cow if milk is free, rr.
   17. Dag Nabbit is part of the zombie horde Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:23 PM (#3092548)
Tango is the Mussolini of bloggers.

At least the threads appear on time.
   18. RJ in TO Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:26 PM (#3092552)
No one will buy the cow if milk is free, rr.


So you're saying that Kuhn had a thing for cattle?
   19. Mark Armour Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:26 PM (#3092554)
I have occasionally criticized bloggers for NOT doing what Rob did yesterday. One of the advantages blogs have over other forms of media is that the writers can engage in friendly debate and disagreements.

I have felt, perhaps unfairly, that baseball bloggers are happy to take down a print reporter but don’t mention other bloggers or like-minded internet writers except to link to them and agree with them. I tend not to trust people who agree with anyone (especially me) all the time.

The next (first?) blogger who writes the words “Joe Posnanski was wrong today when he wrote ...” will have my respect. I say this as a big JoePo fan, which is sort of my point.
   20. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:29 PM (#3092558)
“Joe Posnanski was wrong today when he wrote ...”


Here you go.
   21. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:31 PM (#3092562)
Here you go.

That's a great site, Jon. Why do they never get linked to here?
   22. Craig Calcaterra Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:37 PM (#3092583)
The next (first?) blogger who writes the words “Joe Posnanski was wrong today when he wrote ...” will have my respect. I say this as a big JoePo fan, which is sort of my point
.

Good point, Mark. Personally speaking, I find it hard to take a lot of jabs at Posnanski because so much of what he writes is sheer opinion, he tends to be aware of when he’s walking on thin ice, and inserts much in the way of self-deprication along the way. I am quick to attack morons, but I give a pretty wide berth to people cursed with self-awareness, even if I disagree with them somewhat.

Not that it’s any excuse, of course. No one enjoys silly blogger wars, but sometimes it is a bit too chummy on this end of the blogosphere. No one has ripped me a new one lately either, and frankly, I think I’m overdue.
   23. rr Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:40 PM (#3092590)
No one has ripped me a new one lately either, and frankly, I think I’m overdue
.

Take it to the Piazza thread.

Ironically, I just complimented your work on the Bonds thread.
   24. Mark Armour Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3092595)
Oh no, I am not suggesting anyone should be ripping anyone a new one. I think the free-form nature of the internet has tended to make people equate “disagreement” with a snark-filled look-at-me takedown. I am not advocating a civil war. I am just suggesting that there is more value-added if the linker differentiates his opinion from the linkee (?), rather than just saying “you go, Joe.” Something more like, “I disagree with Joe’s take on Fonzie’s relationship with Mrs. Cunningham. Sure some of it was a longing for the mother he never had, but there was much more to it than that.” And I only mentioned Posnanski because he is so good.
   25. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3092596)
That's a great site, Jon. Why do they never get linked to here?


I have no idea. We do talk about the NeL on occasion here. I also think that Ashwill is a HOMie. I mainly know of him through Simkus.
   26. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: March 04, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3092622)
I have no idea. We do talk about the NeL on occasion here. I also think that Ashwill is a HOMie. I mainly know of him through Simkus.

I discovered that site when I was reasearching how many Negro Leaguers were pitcured on baseball cards. They are very even handed and I'm amazed by how tenacious they can be trying to answer a question they have. It's good stuff.
   27. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 04, 2009 at 09:43 PM (#3092675)
I've been reading agate type all afternoon.
   28. Phenomenal Smith Posted: March 04, 2009 at 09:50 PM (#3092685)
Like Mussolini, Tango makes the trains(stats) run on time, but he lacks a moral compass.
   29. _ Posted: March 04, 2009 at 09:53 PM (#3092690)
Anyone want to review this? I got very little feedback on it.

Jon, I look forward to your Kuhn book, much as I look forward to the late DFW's unfinished novel about IRS employees. If you can make that interesting, you're doing something. :-)

But on the article, the only thing I found sort of confusing was that you jumped from how Bowie Kuhn wanted to be remembered straight into the narrative on the failed Cuban tour. Maybe if it was a fragment lifted straight from the book, that would explain the seeming lack of context, but if you were showing how his efforts to internationalize the game had not been fulfilled, I don't think the failed Cuban tour alone is enough to do that. Again, there might be some context I'm missing, but at least as a standalone article, I thought the first two paragraphs could have been bridged with a mention of some of his other (failed or successful) efforts to internationalize the game, then launch into "one of his initiatives that did not succeed. . ." or the like.

This might be much more than you wanted or appreciated, but it is sincere.
   30. Tango Posted: March 04, 2009 at 09:53 PM (#3092695)
Craig: I used to have your problem with USSM, and MGL used to have it with my blog. I'm now at IE7 and FF3, and no issue, either there or on my site.

Mark: you obviously don't spend any time at the same blogs that I do. I can point you to any number of threads on my site, depending if you want to see me take friendly jabs, to out-and-out throwing punches in the gut (but above the belt). And, I'd say this is the case in a good majority of blogs I see.

Here's a mild example of me disagreeing with The Poz.

And a medium-level example of my disagreeing with Joe Sheehan.
   31. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: March 04, 2009 at 10:02 PM (#3092702)
No one has ripped me a new one lately either, and frankly, I think I’m overdue
Well, I've been struggling to come up with a topic for my Hardball Times column this week Craig. Why don't you send me a list of your past failings and I'll put together the "Craig Calcaterra is a Major #########\" article.
   32. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 04, 2009 at 10:11 PM (#3092710)
This might be much more than you wanted or appreciated, but it is sincere.


That's actually what I was looking for. I'm just looking to write a good book proposal right now, but I need some sample chapter excerpts. I picked that little episode because it hasn't really been written about too often. I've got another one comparing him to Rozelle and some other commissioner types from that time. That should come out soon.
   33. Champions Table Posted: March 04, 2009 at 10:43 PM (#3092744)
Rob Neyer should not have written that headline.
   34. Craig Calcaterra Posted: March 04, 2009 at 11:19 PM (#3092774)
Tom -- That would explain it. I'm reading at the office today, and I'm working off an older version of IE. Apolgies for the jab at your copy-and-pastability. Wait, we're supposed to be taking issue with people. F*ck you!

Rich -- my list of past failings would turn your piece into a seven or eight-part opus of CraigFailure. Why don't you just start with my love life, my legal career, my exercise regimen, and my baldness, and work from there.
   35. GGC don't think it can get longer than a novella Posted: March 05, 2009 at 03:03 PM (#3093254)
Were that every one was so humble, Craig.
   36. AROM Posted: March 05, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3093271)
Since we're taking issue with Tango here,

When are you going to make your site iphone compatible? I can read it on the iphone, but if I try to post anything it gets lost in cyberspace.

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