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Thursday, April 03, 2014

The Chad Curtis Story

This one’s a little tough to take, but Hanlon did a fantastic job reporting on the story. One of the finest published pieces today.

djordan Posted: April 03, 2014 at 02:27 PM | 90 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: chad curtis, mlb

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   1. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:06 PM (#4678613)
Yea, tough piece, but its thorough, and should dispel any notion that these girls made it up or misinterpreted a simple rubdown. Ugh, I feel like I need to take a shower. Gross.
   2. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:10 PM (#4678617)
Ugh, I feel like I need to take a shower.


Must ...

withnhold ...

comment ...

about ...

Bill ...

James ...
   3. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:19 PM (#4678625)
The punchline here is sublime:

[Curtis] leaned down over her and kissed her breast. At the same time, he took one finger, reached underneath her spandex, and penetrated her vagina.

It lasted only several seconds, but it was long enough for Kayla to realize that she was in danger, and to react. Slowly, gingerly, she pushed him off of her, and said, "No."

It was making eye contact with Curtis, and seeing a man she had once revered as a moral authority shamefully slink down into a chair "like a little kid when you slap their hand," that sent her into convulsions of bawling. It was the hardest she had ever cried.

It was too horrible to face head-on, so she scrambled for alternate explanations. The first that came to her mind was that what had happened was some sort of test -- of her own morality, of her friendship with Curtis' daughter -- and that she hadn't passed. At trial, Cottrell would testify that 95 percent of sexual assault cases with children involve a known relationship, and that for the child to blame themselves is common: "Because they hold this person in esteem and because [children] are vulnerable, they will assume this person wouldn't hurt them, so if something bad happened, it must be the child's fault," Cottrell testified.

Kayla hysterically vocalized this sentiment to Curtis. At that, Curtis re-assumed the role of the calm, poised authority figure. He put his hand on her thigh and said, "Kayla, you're wrong. You did pass. You have to understand that."

Another lecture followed, and it confused Kayla. On one hand, Curtis accepted responsibility and said he was sorry. On the other, he put in Kayla's mind what would happen if she told anyone.

"He's like if you go to the police, he's like I will lose my job…. [His wife] will be extremely hurt, and I probably won't see my kids again," she testified. "But Kayla, that's not your fault. I made this decision, and these are the consequences I have to deal with. If that's what you need to do, go to the police, then that's what you need to do."

Kayla asked Curtis what he was going to do, and he said he was going to talk to God, and keep it between himself and God. Then, just as Kayla was getting ready to leave and ponder the most difficult decision in her life, a decision with nothing but horrible outcomes on both sides, Curtis asked her to pray with him. "I didn't want to say no," she said. "Prayer is always good."

After the prayer, and after he told her that her confronting him was a "step in the right direction" for him, and that it would never happen again, she turned again to leave. He again called her name.

"Did you enjoy any of that?" he asked her.

She said no.

"And he turns it into a lesson, and he goes, 'Well, good, now I know that if you ever get into a situation with a boy, you'll be able to make an excuse or go home or something like that.'"
   4. Blastin Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:22 PM (#4678630)
So gross, but compelling to read all the way through.
   5. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:26 PM (#4678637)
Yea, I love the ol', "hey, do you want to have sex? No? Oh well, this was all a test of God's will. You passed! Congrats. Now let's never speak of this again."
   6. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:29 PM (#4678640)
AFAICR the only positive thing Chad Curtis ever did on a ballfield was hit those two home runs in game 3 of the 1999 World Series. Too bad the Yankees couldn't have just rented him for that one game and then returned him to Westboro Baptist.
   7. Blastin Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:37 PM (#4678650)
And he used those two home runs to act like he was ever any good.
   8. spike Posted: April 03, 2014 at 03:38 PM (#4678651)
You can't say "Always the most vocal scolds who turn out to be the most amoral" because confirmation bias, but the extra super ick it adds to the already profound sense of disgust in these cases is considerable.

//the deadspin article had a lot more on this angle




   9. Tom Nawrocki Posted: April 03, 2014 at 04:11 PM (#4678708)
At the same time, he took one finger, reached underneath her spandex, and penetrated her vagina. It lasted only several seconds, but it was long enough for Kayla to realize that she was in danger, and to react.


I don't have a vagina, but I'm guessing that having an unwanted finger in one for even a single second is too much.
   10. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:07 PM (#4678751)
seven-to-15-year conviction for molesting three teenage girls at the rural Michigan high school where he volunteered. Curtis, 45, says he could have taken a misdemeanor plea, served a year and a half in county, and been home with his wife and six kids by now.


The ####? These sentences seem awfully light.
   11. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:08 PM (#4678753)
The ####? These sentences seem awfully light.

7 to 15 is way on the high end for this kind of thing. It shouldn't be, but it is.
   12. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:36 PM (#4678779)
Hearing 7 to 15 probably just got Chad Curtis hot.
   13. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 05:44 PM (#4678792)
Mel Hall wonders what all the fuss is about.
   14. Publius Publicola Posted: April 03, 2014 at 06:04 PM (#4678808)
The ultra-religious are always hiding something.
   15. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 03, 2014 at 06:08 PM (#4678814)
That area of Michigan is a cesspool of repression and hypocrisy.
   16. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 07:05 PM (#4678852)
The ultra-religious are always hiding something.

I guess you would have some insight into that.
   17. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 03, 2014 at 07:38 PM (#4678867)
Mel Hall, Luis Polonia, Chad Curtis... what is it about left field at Yankee Stadium? It gets late early out there, but the late probably wanted it.
   18. Publius Publicola Posted: April 03, 2014 at 07:57 PM (#4678877)
I guess you would have some insight into that.


I do. I went to parochial school.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: April 03, 2014 at 08:03 PM (#4678880)
I do. I went to parochial school.

I meant the other part.
   20. base ball chick Posted: April 03, 2014 at 10:14 PM (#4678936)
this was a very powerful story

this is a story about how grrls get raped by someone they know - and almost always, that someone makes the FEMALE feel guilty, it was HER fault. I know ALL about this stuff, know too many females this happened to.

me and Husband talked to our boysss about predators when Sandusky was, shall we say, exposed.
discussed this with guys here and was shocked and disgusted how many did not talk to their sons about predators
am hoping youse guys are not too chickenshtt to talk to your DAUGHTERS about this.

understanding you will get a lot of eye rolling because tween/teen grrls are naturally bytchy knowitalls and we think we can handle anything.
   21. Cooper Nielson Posted: April 03, 2014 at 10:25 PM (#4678941)
That area of Michigan is a cesspool of repression and hypocrisy.

I grew up in that area of Michigan and, in fact, graduated from this very high school (many years ago). "Cesspool of repression and hypocrisy" seems a bit strong, but not incorrect.
   22. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 04, 2014 at 11:41 AM (#4679236)
Some unbelievable ####. What a piece of human garbage, cloaking himself in "religion".
   23. The Polish Sausage Racer Posted: April 04, 2014 at 12:17 PM (#4679267)
"Christian" is a euphemism for "human monster." Typical bull about "God's plan" and then acting persecuted when they're caught with their hands in a little girl's cookie jar.
   24. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 12:24 PM (#4679276)
#23: That's way out of line. The great majority of self-identifying Christians, and even of self-identifying evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christians, are basically normal people, and there are child molesting atheists and Muslims around too.

Christians are just as disgusted by Chad Curtis's actions as atheists are. More so, actually, as he's provoking thoughtless people like you to label them all as monsters.
   25. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 04, 2014 at 12:32 PM (#4679283)
I probably shouldn't speak for #23, but I assumed he meant people who cloak themselves in religion and make a big show about their piety.
   26. winnipegwhip Posted: April 04, 2014 at 01:26 PM (#4679325)
I always like the line Rip Torn (as Artie) said while lecturing Hank about his new found Judaism which he was flaunting:

"When I was 14 I was baptised. I wouldn't shut up about it until I lost my virginity a week later."
   27. Blastin Posted: April 04, 2014 at 01:34 PM (#4679334)
I think 23 is saying that's the way Curtis is using Christian, hence the quotations.
   28. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 04, 2014 at 01:47 PM (#4679348)
I grew up in that area of Michigan and, in fact, graduated from this very high school (many years ago). "Cesspool of repression and hypocrisy" seems a bit strong, but not incorrect.

Grew up 30-40 miles southeast. Played the school a time or two in sports.

The reversion to religious nuttery in places like my hometown is a major part of the narrative of decline set out from time to time herein. It's a very creepy and bizarre development. West Michigan always went in more for that than the Lansing area, even in 1979, but it's almost certain that the same regression has taken place there -- it being a national trend and all.



   29. tfbg9 Posted: April 04, 2014 at 01:49 PM (#4679353)
It is my understanding that kevin went straight from his parochial HS into the Navy Seals.
   30. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 04, 2014 at 01:50 PM (#4679357)
The great majority of self-identifying Christians, and even of self-identifying evangelical and/or fundamentalist Christians, are basically normal people,

Christians, maybe. Evangelical/fundamentalist Christians, no. Often not "normal." Typically creepy, repressed, and/or hypocritical.

Might as well call it like it is.

   31. ASmitty Posted: April 04, 2014 at 01:56 PM (#4679368)
West Michigan always went in more for that than the Lansing area


I'm from the east side of the state, but a friend of mine is from New Orleans and had an interview in Grand Rapids a few years back. During the interview, the employer asked him, "What do the people where you're from say about Grand Rapids?" Naturally, my friend had never heard a single person in the city of New Orleans express any sentiment whatsoever about the city of Grand Rapids and, being amused by the question, wryly responded, "they think it's the new Jerusalem."

The interviewer just smiled, nodded, and moved on. My friend still isn't sure if the employer knew he was being a wise-ass with that answer.
   32. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: April 04, 2014 at 02:01 PM (#4679375)
I'd be remiss if I didn't add to the list in 30, "... and often proponents of a "religion" having little to nothing to do with the actual teachings of Jesus."
   33. GregD Posted: April 04, 2014 at 02:03 PM (#4679377)
I'm from the east side of the state, but a friend of mine is from New Orleans and had an interview in Grand Rapids a few years back. During the interview, the employer asked him, "What do the people where you're from say about Grand Rapids?" Naturally, my friend had never heard a single person in the city of New Orleans express any sentiment whatsoever about the city of Grand Rapids and, being amused by the question, wryly responded, "they think it's the new Jerusalem."

The interviewer just smiled, nodded, and moved on. My friend still isn't sure if they employer knew he was being a wise-ass with that answer.
Great story
   34. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 02:40 PM (#4679431)
My friend still isn't sure if they employer knew he was being a wise-ass with that answer.
Did he get the job?
   35. ASmitty Posted: April 04, 2014 at 02:49 PM (#4679443)
Did he get the job?


I believe they extended an offer, but low-balled him pretty badly. So the response remained ambiguious.
   36. base ball chick Posted: April 04, 2014 at 02:52 PM (#4679447)
David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 01:54 PM (#4679364)


- hi david
WELCOME BACK

here and i was afraid you give up in disgust because of your old friend (ahem) being back

hope things are ok with you and family
   37. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 04, 2014 at 03:21 PM (#4679479)
I'd be remiss if I didn't add to the list in 30, "... and often proponents of a "religion" having little to nothing to do with the actual teachings of Jesus."


I bring you Pat Robertson:

“I think you’ve got to remember from the Bible, you look carefully at the Bible, what would have happened in Jesus’ time if two men decided they wanted to cohabitate together, they would have been stoned to death,” he explained. “So, Jesus would not have baked them a wedding cake, nor would he he have made them a bed to sleep in because they wouldn’t have been there.”


So hmmm, what did Jesus do when he had the opportunity to weigh in on a proposed stoning... I'm sure it's in there somewhere...
Nope I guess it's not

   38. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 04, 2014 at 03:36 PM (#4679487)
"When you pray, you are not to be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners so that they may be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full." Matthew 6:5
   39. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:11 AM (#4679807)
- hi david
WELCOME BACK

here and i was afraid you give up in disgust because of your old friend (ahem) being back

hope things are ok with you and family
Fine, thanks. I just got busy with work, and then (believe it or not) kind of felt burnt out by BBTF and needed a break. So... what did I miss? Tell me everything.
   40. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:18 AM (#4679852)
"Christian" is a euphemism for "human monster." Typical bull about "God's plan" and then acting persecuted when they're caught with their hands in a little girl's cookie jar.


He didn't blame the girl for leading him on with her female wiles, Curtis is actually ahead of the pack here. Besides, what's the biblical age of consent?
   41. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 11:37 AM (#4679881)
Besides, what's the biblical age of consent?

in Methuselah's case, I think it was 120
   42. Ron J2 Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:18 PM (#4679893)
So... what did I miss?


Well Ray's left us too so that took some predictable dynamics out of play.

Truthfully you haven't missed a great deal.
   43. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 05, 2014 at 12:42 PM (#4679902)
Fine, thanks. I just got busy with work, and then (believe it or not) kind of felt burnt out by BBTF and needed a break. So... what did I miss? Tell me everything.

Civilization is now in its 35th consecutive year of decline, the Eagles and the Patriots inexplicably fell short of the Super Bowl, and the Orioles' starters have a collective ERA of 7.20. Anything else?
   44. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 04:06 PM (#4680017)
Anything else?
Yes, but what arguments were resolved? I assume you guys settled several debates without me.
   45. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 06:20 PM (#4680074)
Oh, we figured out DIPs, Pete Rose, steroids and the existence of God.
   46. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 07:59 PM (#4680106)
Well? Don't keep me in suspense; what are the answers?
   47. AROM Posted: April 05, 2014 at 09:15 PM (#4680131)
"Well? Don't keep me in suspense; what are the answers?"

42
   48. Baldrick Posted: April 05, 2014 at 09:37 PM (#4680139)
DIPS: sort of
Pete Rose: no thanks
Steroids: agree to disagree
existence of God: just a concept by which we measure our pain
   49. Kurt Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:21 PM (#4680147)
Everyone agreed that baseball is better with the DH.
   50. Random Transaction Generator Posted: April 05, 2014 at 10:23 PM (#4680148)
In order:
Yes, No, No, and 42.
   51. Weekly Journalist_ Posted: April 06, 2014 at 12:14 AM (#4680173)
My wife is from the Newaygo County area. Some ####### weirdos out there, man. But I like Jimmy Johns.
   52. base ball chick Posted: April 06, 2014 at 12:16 AM (#4680175)
39. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: April 05, 2014 at 05:11 AM (#4679807)

hope things are ok with you and family

Fine, thanks. I just got busy with work, and then (believe it or not) kind of felt burnt out by BBTF and needed a break. So... what did I miss? Tell me everything


- well actually, I was real worried because it wasn't like you to not talk about baseball. I mean, the baseball intra nets without DMN?

so I was worried that Something Bad happened to you. or your family.

and understand the burned out thingy. I feel that way a lot

what did you miss?

me, of course

   53. LionoftheSenate (Brewers v A's World Series) Posted: April 06, 2014 at 06:38 AM (#4680193)
There is 30's style bigotry here directed at religious folks. It would be better to direct your hate toward Curtis.
   54. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 06, 2014 at 06:46 AM (#4680195)
There is 30's style bigotry here directed at religious folks


Father Coughlan was an honorable and godly man unfairly besmirched by communists and sheenys!
   55. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: April 06, 2014 at 07:04 AM (#4680198)
“Religion. It's given people hope in a world torn apart by religion.”
   56. CrosbyBird Posted: April 06, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4680278)
There is 30's style bigotry here directed at religious folks. It would be better to direct your hate toward Curtis.

The religion isn't just ancillary to the story. Curtis used his religion, and the undeserved and self-created reputation as a highly moral person because of his religiosity, to cross boundaries more effectively and try to coerce his victims into silence. He continues to attempt to use his religion as a shield against accountability for the horrible things he did to teenage girls.

He said he prayed for the girls, the prosecutor and the judge. He said he was "a servant as opposed to a selfish person." He said he wakes up every day and asks, 'God, what would you have me do? And God, how can I be a positive influence on others and be about building your kingdom?'"

He began to address his victims' claims one by one. He said Jessica invented "fake-type injuries" and added, "I didn't touch Jessica for my sexual purposes. I tried to touch Jessica mentally and emotionally for her benefit and physically for her benefit."


He's saying "I'm a good Christian, and that's how you know that even if what I did sounds awful, it must have been done with an entirely pure motive."

It exposes the serious problem of how some in society view religion as a good shorthand for morality. There are wonderful, noble people of faith. But faith itself is neither necessary nor sufficient to establish morality in a human being. As an atheist, I don't claim that my lack of belief establishes some sort of inherent moral superiority over the religious, but there are more than a small number of religious people that insist that I cannot be a moral or good person not merely without belief, but without a specific set of beliefs.

Curtis was a loud public voice of that sort of person, and I think it especially revealing example of why that person is wrong (and that the belief that faith is strongly correlated with morality is unfounded).
   57. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 06, 2014 at 01:29 PM (#4680331)
How long until we get a "religious freedom" law that allows child molestation? It impinges on the freedom of the faithful to hold their deeply-held values to our worldly secular standards after all.
   58. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: April 06, 2014 at 06:01 PM (#4680524)
There are wonderful, noble people of faith. But faith itself is neither necessary nor sufficient to establish morality in a human being. As an atheist, I don't claim that my lack of belief establishes some sort of inherent moral superiority over the religious, but there are more than a small number of religious people that insist that I cannot be a moral or good person not merely without belief, but without a specific set of beliefs.

Let me say an admittedly ironic "AMEN" to that. Religious belief correlates to morality about as much as the consumption of sunflower seeds correlates to value in baseball.
   59. GregD Posted: April 06, 2014 at 06:15 PM (#4680530)
How long until we get a "religious freedom" law that allows child molestation? It impinges on the freedom of the faithful to hold their deeply-held values to our worldly secular standards after all.
only after you incorporate
   60. Howie Menckel Posted: April 06, 2014 at 08:57 PM (#4680627)
I can't speak re Curtis, but no doubt many sexual predators analyze where they are most likely to thrive - and priest, or even just a religious-claiming person, is a good start.

In these cases, religion has nothing to do with it. Bank robbers go where the money is, and monsters go where the odds are best for them. They claim religious devotion as a cover.

In a world where atheists were seen as the "safest" people to be around children, these very same monsters would claim to be atheists. And religious people would use these examples as a way to demonize atheism.



   61. Rob_Wood Posted: April 06, 2014 at 11:53 PM (#4680694)

I am appalled that the wholesome act of eating sunflower seeds has been so besmirched in this thread!
   62. CrosbyBird Posted: April 07, 2014 at 12:12 AM (#4680704)
In a world where atheists were seen as the "safest" people to be around children, these very same monsters would claim to be atheists. And religious people would use these examples as a way to demonize atheism.

And if those atheists were walking around insisting that being an atheist makes one more moral, it would be appropriate to use those examples to rebut the claim.
   63. PreservedFish Posted: April 07, 2014 at 02:36 AM (#4680728)
In these cases, religion has nothing to do with it. Bank robbers go where the money is, and monsters go where the odds are best for them. They claim religious devotion as a cover.


I think it's more likely that Curtis is genuinely religious and also kind of nuts than it is that his religion is purely a cynical cover for his molesting pursuits.
   64. PASTE Thinks This Trout Kid Might Be OK (Zeth) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 08:00 AM (#4680758)
Curtis is probably certifiably delusional.
   65. Howie Menckel Posted: April 07, 2014 at 08:27 AM (#4680764)

"And if those atheists were walking around insisting that being an atheist makes one more moral, it would be appropriate to use those examples to rebut the claim."

And that would be dumb, if those examples were not people who are atheists at all, but merely wearing that cloak to gain access to vulnerable targets.

   66. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: April 07, 2014 at 09:33 AM (#4680787)
In a world where atheists were seen as the "safest" people to be around children, these very same monsters would claim to be atheists. And religious people would use these examples as a way to demonize atheism.

But we don't live in that world, which is kind of the point.

And how do you know Curtis is merely using religion as a cloak? I think preservedfish is right that it's probably part and parcel of who he is.
   67. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 09:39 AM (#4680790)
Everyone agreed that baseball is better with the DH.


Sigh. Another name for the murder list. Will my work ever be done?
   68. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: April 07, 2014 at 09:40 AM (#4680791)
I believe that Curtis is truly religious. But I also believe he uses it to "prove" his morality, to cover for his crimes.

   69. AROM Posted: April 07, 2014 at 11:01 AM (#4680873)
Atheists and believers can each be immoral or moral. If the atheist is right, then it doesn't matter which path he choses. Once he dies, all that's left is the void.

If Curtis is thinking clearly, he might start to hope that the atheists are right about the afterlife. What's in store for him is not likely to be pleasant.
   70. Howie Menckel Posted: April 07, 2014 at 11:26 AM (#4680889)

"And how do you know Curtis is merely using religion as a cloak?"

apparently for some reason you are asking the guy who in Post 60 typed, "I can't speak re Curtis..."

   71. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 11:33 AM (#4680899)
If Curtis is thinking clearly, he might start to hope that the atheists are right about the afterlife. What's in store for him is not likely to be pleasant.


Why? As noted theologian Jack Chick has repeatedly witnessed, none are beyond salvation, no act so heinous and repugnant that it cannot be washed clean by the blood of Jesus. Consider this an opportunity for dialogue and education.
   72. Morty Causa Posted: April 07, 2014 at 11:34 AM (#4680901)
If Curtis is thinking clearly, he might start to hope that the atheists are right about the afterlife. What's in store for him is not likely to be pleasant.

Yes, that is puzzling. Certain believers better hope the God they profess to believe in doesn't in fact exist--otherwise, they can expect one day to find themselves in deep ####. But this doesn't seem to ever penetrate their thinking.
   73. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 11:54 AM (#4680922)
Why? As noted theologian Jack Chick has repeatedly witnessed, none are beyond salvation, no act so heinous and repugnant that it cannot be washed clean by the blood of Jesus


Fred Phelps and Chad Curtis will be in heaven, Mahatma Ghandi and the Dalai Lama will not. I think there's also a line in the bible about not judging people, because God is better at it than you. Its in the back.
   74. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: April 07, 2014 at 12:07 PM (#4680943)
It exposes the serious problem of how some in society view religion as a good shorthand for morality.


I think this is why you'll get a flier or two (or if you still use the archaic yellow pages) that say "a christian owned business". It really is supposed to be shorthand to say "hey, we won't #### you over"*.

* To be fair, there is an auto body shop in my hometown that may or may not use that type of advertising. I know the religious symbolism is strong in the shop, but man, it's an awesome shop compared to others that I have dealt with.

** Of course, that doesn't mean that all folks who hide behind Jesus are awesome folks, it just happens that the owners of this shop are actually good human beings with or without their religion.
   75. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 12:09 PM (#4680948)
I think this is why you'll get a flier or two (or if you still use the archaic yellow pages) that say "a christian owned business". It really is supposed to be shorthand to say "hey, we won't #### you over"*.


Also, "gay people need not apply."
   76. You Know Nothing JT Snow (YR) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 12:16 PM (#4680959)
Also we won't Jew you, like those Jews who Jew people!
   77. Manny Coon Posted: April 07, 2014 at 12:52 PM (#4681006)
To be fair, there is an auto body shop in my hometown that may or may not use that type of advertising. I know the religious symbolism is strong in the shop, but man, it's an awesome shop compared to others that I have dealt with.


There is a mechanic near where I live and out front they have big sign that says "Honest and Competent" and big Jesus fish next to it; my first reaction was that anyone who has ever made a point to tell me about honest or competent they are is usually the exact opposite, more so if they are strongly religious as well. Of course there is a great chance the shop is legit and I'm a jerk for thinking that about them.
   78. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 12:59 PM (#4681020)
I'd be interested in a business that advertises with a pentagram.

Say, a hitting school operated by Albert Belle & Chris Truby.
   79. Jose Is The Most Absurd Thing on the Site Posted: April 07, 2014 at 01:38 PM (#4681083)
I'd be interested in a business that advertises with a pentagram.

Say, a hitting school operated by Albert Belle & Chris Truby.


Only if Mike Crudale operates the cash register.
   80. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 01:42 PM (#4681088)
I've been puzzling over this. I am having a hard time figuring out how to say what I mean to say, and whether what I mean to say is something that is good or bad or just there, if it's something to change, or . . .

. . . anyway, here it is. I am likely to be repelled by any business that is overt about its Xianity. There are a lot of complex reasons for this, not all of which I'm sure I understand, but there you have it. I think part of it is that, in a country in which the majority of people are at least nominally Xian, advertising the fact that you are Xian owned says something weird and kind of paranoid about who you are and what you do. Or at least maybe it does. I have much the same reaction to motels that advertise as "American owned and operated", as though that were (A) rare or (B) important. What that usually says to me is, "Those ####### pakis own all the hotels and it's ruining the America I love (viz, white, Protestant America)!"

But then there's this: I will admit to an instinctive preference for Jewish-owned or operated businesses. In some instances this is rational -- like, say, a deli. But sometimes it's not. If I need a lawyer (never really happened, but roll with me), and I get two equally high recommendations, one for a guy named Smith and another for a guy named Silverman, my brain is going to want to dial the number for Mr Silverman. I'm not a religious man at all; quite the opposite, in fact. And I didn't grow up in a part of the country where we were surrounded by fellow Jews; my neighborhood in Portland was probably more Jewish than most neighborhoods in the PNW, but it wasn't exactly a shtetl. So, why? What is it? I must have learned this instinct from something. It's not from any experience of having Jewish lawyers (or anything else) provide better service than goyish ones. ####, I'm more than half goyish myself. It's just . . . I don't know what it is. It's a thing that happens in my brain.
   81. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: April 07, 2014 at 01:48 PM (#4681102)
I'd be interested in a business that advertises with a pentagram.

I've purchased a few things from a business that advertises with a pentagram. Of course, those things included a book on astrology and a magic wand. The pentagram wasn't terribly surprising.
   82. if nature called, ladodger34 would listen Posted: April 07, 2014 at 01:50 PM (#4681105)
There is a mechanic near where I live and out front they have big sign that says "Honest and Competent" and big Jesus fish next to it; my first reaction was that anyone who has ever made a point to tell me about honest or competent they are is usually the exact opposite, more so if they are strongly religious as well. Of course there is a great chance the shop is legit and I'm a jerk for thinking that about them.


To abuse a favorite cliche of mine, "To be fair", my parents had used the body shop prior to me, so I already knew they were good with or without the religious BS. My claims adjuster told me when I talked to (paraphrased" "if I ever get in an accident, I want my car to go here" because they were so fantastic to deal with and it wasn't a guaranteed shop in according to our insurance (my adjuster said it was the best body shop he had dealt with). I get the sense that the fellow who ran it would have done a good job regardless of his religious affiliation. He was just a good guy and did a damned good job.
   83. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 01:52 PM (#4681107)
Here in Alabama, such an enterprise would probably be burned to the ground.
   84. Fernigal McGunnigle has become a merry hat Posted: April 07, 2014 at 01:59 PM (#4681118)
Here in Alabama, such an enterprise would probably be burned to the ground.

Yes, this was in London, where they hate Baby Jesus. But there's at least one esoteric bookstore in Birmingham. It doesn't appear to be of the pentagram variety, but you can take a class called Wicca 101 and buy books on runes and so forth.
   85. AROM Posted: April 07, 2014 at 02:00 PM (#4681122)
So, why? What is it? I must have learned this instinct from something. It's not from any experience of having Jewish lawyers (or anything else) provide better service than goyish ones. ####, I'm more than half goyish myself. It's just . . . I don't know what it is. It's a thing that happens in my brain.


Stereotyping. Your post reminded me of Breaking Bad, where we learn that Saul Goodman is not actually Jewish. Just changed his name as a marketing tactic.
   86. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 02:52 PM (#4681176)

Yes, this was in London, where they hate Baby Jesus. But there's at least one esoteric bookstore in Birmingham. It doesn't appear to be of the pentagram variety, but you can take a class called Wicca 101 and buy books on runes and so forth.


Birmingham. Pshaw. I'll bet they have electricity & indoor plumbing up there, too.
   87. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 03:26 PM (#4681221)
I'd be interested in a business that advertises with a pentagram.


Could I interest you in these guys?
   88. base ball chick Posted: April 07, 2014 at 04:17 PM (#4681277)
there are some "jewish" names that when i hear them, i think of mexican guys, not jewish guys. such as saul. and joel.

as for Xian - a guy who used to post here had that name. i thought it was kewl, pronounced "shawn" and was thinking that is what i would name our next boy (Xianna for a grrl.)
but he prolly is actually named "christian"
and i don't want to name a kid that name
   89. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 07, 2014 at 04:55 PM (#4681343)
Stereotyping. Your post reminded me of Breaking Bad, where we learn that Saul Goodman is not actually Jewish. Just changed his name as a marketing tactic.


But the same is true of a plumber or an electrician. I have a weird "my tribe" instinct that I'm not really sure I'm happy about.
   90. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: April 07, 2014 at 06:03 PM (#4681434)
Stereotyping. Your post reminded me of Breaking Bad, where we learn that Saul Goodman is not actually Jewish. Just changed his name as a marketing tactic.


It's all good, man.

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