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Friday, June 29, 2012

The Diamondbacks do not love Daron Sutton’s suit, suspend announcer for dress code violations

A weird story has been developing in Phoenix over the past week after Arizona Diamondbacks television play-by-play man, Daron Sutton, mysteriously disappeared from their broadcasts.

The Chronicles of Reddick Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:02 PM | 196 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: arizona

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   1. The Long Arm of Rudy Law Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:30 PM (#4169617)
Isn't Grace violating the dress code in that picture?
   2. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:40 PM (#4169629)
There's speculation Sut and the team have been in conflict for a new seasons now. If so, this may have been the team's "That's it! He's done!" moment.

I'm rooting against both sides, as I can't stand either the Sut/Gracie combo and the D-Backs.
   3. TerpNats Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:46 PM (#4169636)
Usually, dress code violations occur in the other direction (too informal). Weird.

Can someone find some sort of violation that would enable the Yankees to fire Sterling? Please?
   4. Delino DeShields & Yarnell Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:49 PM (#4169639)
I know for a fact that neither of them is wearing pants in that picture.
   5. , Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:58 PM (#4169649)
That can't possibly be the reason.

Can it?
   6. Guapo Posted: June 29, 2012 at 02:59 PM (#4169653)
Well, Piecoro tells us that Sutton prefers to wear, and on many occasions has worn a suit and tie while on the air for Fox Sports Arizona, while the Diamondbacks organization prefers — actually mandates — the broadcast crew to wear polo shirts featuring the team's logo.


And down we go the slippery slope from the Sebelius decision.
   7. Shredder Posted: June 29, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4169655)
I know for a fact that neither of them is wearing pants in that picture.
For a fact? You may want to keep that information to yourself.
   8. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: June 29, 2012 at 03:04 PM (#4169658)
Apparently the differing opinions over what constitutes a professional appearance has been a point of contention between the two sides for most of Sutton's six years in the Arizona booth, and the powers that be finally decided to put their foot down after Sutton made what Piecoro termed as a "veiled reference" to the dress code during the June 20 broadcast. Sutton was nowhere to be found for the June 22 broadcast against the Chicago Cubs, and hasn't been seen or heard from on a broadcast since.


Anyone know just how he referenced this sartorial imbroglio during the broadcast?
   9. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: June 29, 2012 at 03:06 PM (#4169660)
Was he literally wearing a veil?
   10. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:02 PM (#4169695)
Say what you will of Daron Sutton, but I commend him for taking a stand against the polo shirt. Barring a James Bond physique, polo shirts tend to look horrible on most guys. Almost without fail, they give the illusion of cone-like tits and a gut, even if the wearer has neither.
   11. , Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:13 PM (#4169705)
they give the illusion of cone-like tits and a gut, even if the wearer has neither.

I'm happy to hear this because it means that, perhaps, people will think it's the shirt and not my physique.
   12. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:15 PM (#4169707)
Almost without fail, they give the illusion of cone-like tits and a gut

So did the 1998 Yankee rotation.
   13. Darren Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:16 PM (#4169708)
I always considered the polo a pretty safe look for most guys, svelte, skinny, or portly. I think you've been buying the wrong size.
   14. PepTech, the Legendary Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:29 PM (#4169721)
Will there be an OT-Sartorial micro? I hope so; I can use the help.
   15. The District Attorney Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:32 PM (#4169724)
Will there be an OT-Sartorial micro?
Yes, moderated by Smitty.
   16. The Good Face Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4169726)
I always considered the polo a pretty safe look for most guys, svelte, skinny, or portly. I think you've been buying the wrong size.


Polo shirts work well on athletic or muscular guys, and are actually OK on beefy/stout fat guys as long as they're not immensely fat. Not a great look for skinny people, and a terrible look for people who aren't really fat, but are out of shape or have soft, doughy physiques. That's where you get the look described in #10 above.
   17. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4169727)
I always considered the polo a pretty safe look for most guys, svelte, skinny, or portly. I think you've been buying the wrong size.


Nonsense. They just don't drape in a flattering way on most guys, regardless of size. Taking your standard size often results in the aforementioned gut/### illusion, while going too big just makes you look dumpy.
   18. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:34 PM (#4169728)
There absolutely has to be more to this, because this sounds like complete lunacy. If you can't find a compromise about something like this (e.g. let Sutton wear his suits, but have him wear a D-backs tie or tie pin), then what the hell can you compromise about?

So I'd have to guess this is just a convenient topic covering a much larger set of disagreements. Either that or they're just trying to force him out and any reason will do.
   19. PreservedFish Posted: June 29, 2012 at 04:51 PM (#4169740)
Mike Nolan, when he was coaching the 49ers, wanted to wear a suit. IIRC it took about a year of negotiations before he was granted a one game exemption from the league's "must be in official team ware" policy. I understand the policy, but I don't understand why they're so fussy about this stuff.
   20. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:05 PM (#4169746)
Polo shirts work well on athletic or muscular guys, and are actually OK on beefy/stout fat guys as long as they're not immensely fat. Not a great look for skinny people, and a terrible look for people who aren't really fat, but are out of shape or have soft, doughy physiques.


I've been pretty much all of those at various stages of my life, & I hate polo shirts. To be fair, I hate them on principle, not because of the way they make me look or don't. (I hate all pullover shirts, period, except for T-shirts. Always have.)
   21. McCoy Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:24 PM (#4169755)
Pretty much everything I wear is button down. I'll usually wear a polo shirt if I'm playing golf and that is about it.
   22. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:28 PM (#4169758)
Almost without fail, they give the illusion of cone-like tits and a gut, even if the wearer has neither.

No, they look like that on fat guys with tits.
   23. ERROR---Jolly Old St. Nick Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:31 PM (#4169761)
What's wrong with a snakeskin suit for a D-backs announcer?
   24. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:49 PM (#4169767)
Mike Nolan, when he was coaching the 49ers, wanted to wear a suit. IIRC it took about a year of negotiations before he was granted a one game exemption from the league's "must be in official team ware" policy. I understand the policy, but I don't understand why they're so fussy about this stuff.


Did you guess "money"? Because "money" would be an excellent guess.
   25. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:53 PM (#4169771)
Say what you will of Daron Sutton, but I commend him for taking a stand against the polo shirt. Barring a James Bond physique, polo shirts tend to look horrible on most guys. Almost without fail, they give the illusion of cone-like tits and a gut, even if the wearer has neither.

I am a thin guy and I like polo shirts, but they have to be the right fit/material. Also not a big fan of tucking them in.

EDIT: I would note that the first sentence is true of almost any type of clothing - a good fit is more important than the right brand/style etc.
   26. Flynn Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:56 PM (#4169776)
I'm a fat guy, and there's few pieces of clothing I enjoy wearing more than my Fred Perrys.
   27. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: June 29, 2012 at 05:56 PM (#4169777)

Also, for the life of me I cannot imagine why anyone would want to wear a suit in Arizona in the summer.
   28. Tripon Posted: June 29, 2012 at 06:25 PM (#4169788)
He's in an Air Conditioned room for his telecasts. Not like he's sweating like a pig.
   29. greenback slays lewks Posted: June 29, 2012 at 06:43 PM (#4169796)
For my one trip to the Bob the temperature outside was 95+. But it was cool in the stadium, and remained pleasant all the way to the end of the game, even though they opened the roof right before first pitch.
   30. Best Regards, President of Comfort, Esq., LLC Posted: June 29, 2012 at 07:49 PM (#4169827)
So did the 1998 Yankee rotation.
RDF.
   31. MM1f Posted: June 30, 2012 at 01:44 AM (#4169968)
Usually, dress code violations occur in the other direction (too informal). Weird.


I looked at that picture, dumbfounded, for several minutes trying to spot the dress code violation before bothering to RTFA.
   32. Dale H. Posted: June 30, 2012 at 02:21 AM (#4169970)
It all goes back to WWVSD, really. Thank God the Dodgers aren't obsessed with branding.

I hope he's back, personally because they entertain the hell out of me. And I hope it is something silly like this instead of some of the other rumors that "personal issues" instantly springs forth.
   33. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: June 30, 2012 at 10:11 AM (#4170013)
.
   34. fracas' hope springs eternal Posted: June 30, 2012 at 10:16 AM (#4170014)
They just don't drape in a flattering way on most guys, regardless of size. Taking your standard size often results in the aforementioned gut/### illusion, while going too big just makes you look dumpy.


I'm blessed to have broad shoulders relative to my frame, and I can testify that this does wonders in diminishing the appearance of my gut, just because a larger shirt looks appropriate instead of like a schleppy attempt to hide my gut. Although I'm not far gone enough to have moobs, thank god.

Edit: just realized that the fine article was posted by spankz, which is priceless given the direction this discussion has gone.
   35. DA Baracus Posted: June 30, 2012 at 10:54 AM (#4170025)
I looked at that picture, dumbfounded, for several minutes trying to spot the dress code violation before bothering to RTFA.


I thought it was obvious. The tie on the right is terrible.
   36. Zach Posted: June 30, 2012 at 12:12 PM (#4170046)
I looked at that picture, dumbfounded, for several minutes trying to spot the dress code violation before bothering to RTFA.

I thought it was deadpan snark and he'd been caught molesting the livestock or something.

How could things get so bad that you can't reach a compromise on something like this?
   37. base ball chick Posted: June 30, 2012 at 04:06 PM (#4170133)
most adult men do not look "good" in a polo shirt unless they are athletic and i agree with the t!ts n gut comments

most men would look a LOT better if they would wear pants/jeans that fit better and not just wear the same brand/style they did when they were umpty lbs thinner which is NOT flattering any more

most men look much better in suits because most men wear suits that FIT right

and firing an employee who is not actually seen by customers, for wearing a suit, is beyond funny
   38. phredbird Posted: June 30, 2012 at 04:37 PM (#4170158)
the almost universal obesity of adult male americans today has caused a sartorial disaster of nuclear proportions. also, the general ugliness of casual wear and the fact that it almost never fits properly. there really is nothing worse looking than a guy in cargo shorts that go below the knee and a large tshirt or polo shirt in some ridiculous color or with logos etc. on it. the original polo shirts that were developed by rene lacoste were meant to be buttoned to the throat and tucked into comfortable slacks. obviously since he was a fit athlete the look was becoming.

but if some slob with a giant gut is going to wear it, yeah, its gonna look bad. but most of the time slobs don't wear anything that's flattering. they're slobs. unfortunately, that describes most men ... they either wear dull beige/tan colors with other dull beige tan colors, or, even worse, if they let their wife pick their clothes, egregious bright colors and patterns that have them resembling a circus tent. and, as i mentioned before, logos plastered everywhere. and running shoes, the ugliest s--t ever invented for human feet.

and don't even get me started on suits. you cannot get a well taiored suit anymore without going into debt.

i highly recommend everyone here visit the sartorialist.com. it's an amazing site, because the guy that runs it knows the difference between style and mere fashion. one of the most interesting things about it is that he takes a lot of pictures of people he sees on the street who have innate fashion sense, or who have hit upon a good personal look, so you get a selection of looks that are well presented, on people of differing age, height, weight, etc. ... they aren't all models.
   39. McCoy Posted: June 30, 2012 at 04:50 PM (#4170173)
and don't even get me started on suits. you cannot get a well taiored suit anymore without going into debt.

They aren't the finest of finest but Indochino makes made to measure suits that start at $375 and go up to about $500 or so and they include a $75 tailor allowance. Decent to good suit quality and a good price that fit your body. Can't really beat that 9 times out of 10.
   40. phredbird Posted: June 30, 2012 at 04:52 PM (#4170175)
however, he does get a little too into the fashion shows. and the faux bohemians downtown. but its still a cool site.
   41. phredbird Posted: June 30, 2012 at 04:54 PM (#4170177)
its also possible to get decent suits in downtown L.A. in the fashion district, probably similar to what mccoy is talking about, if you want to make the effort.
   42. McCoy Posted: June 30, 2012 at 04:55 PM (#4170179)
however, he does get a little too into the fashion shows. and the faux bohemians downtown. but its still a cool site.

I was going to say that about THEsartorialist.com but you beat me to it. Most of the stuff skews towards the younger non professional age group and even when someone is wearing a suit it isn't really American workplace appropiate.

I check out that site from time to time but most of that stuff just wouldn't work in my workplace or lifestyle.
   43. McCoy Posted: June 30, 2012 at 04:57 PM (#4170180)
its also possible to get decent suits in downtown L.A. in the fashion district, probably similar to what mccoy is talking about, if you want to make the effort.

Indochino is a Canadian company that you can place your orders online. They do have a traveling tailor but they make stops in only Canada I believe. It takes 10 to 15 days to get your suit.

There is also a shirt company that makes made to measure shirts starting at $54. I believe it is called tailor.com or some such thing. The link for it is at home.
   44. Bote Man Posted: June 30, 2012 at 08:31 PM (#4170258)
Don't you hate clothes???
   45. PerroX Posted: June 30, 2012 at 08:42 PM (#4170264)
Hmmm. Learn something new every day.
   46. base ball chick Posted: June 30, 2012 at 09:04 PM (#4170269)
agree about unfortunately most adults being fat - at least here in houston it's true. Except in the rich people only areas. i would guess that everywhere else, most adults are at LEAST 25 lbs overfat. at LEAST.




   47. Dock Ellis Posted: June 30, 2012 at 10:44 PM (#4170293)
phredbird, thank you for hipping me to that. I've bookmarked it for ideas.

Maybe it's a combination of living in NYC and being in my 30s but I am certainly paying a lot more attention to the clothes I wear these days. I'm not the most fashionable man in town, but I do have rules I follow. No pleated pants, ever, no polo shirts, no clothing that displays the logo of the brand I'm wearing, and I almost never wear sneakers anymore.

Sometimes I'm shocked when I go home to the suburbs and see men in pleated khakis, Old Navy tshirts and ugly cross-training sneakers that looked like someone barfed all over them. And almost all of them dress this way every single day, unless they're gay and/or hipster. I may have a strong distaste for hipsters, but at least they have a sense of personal style, even if their style is ripping off the style of other hipsters.

Wear clothes that fit well; invest an hour or two in the dressing room (especially for pants and doubly so for jeans), have a pair of black dress shoes and brown dress shoes, and avoid shirts with logos on them, and you're already dressing better than most men in this country. A black or blue sports coat is an excellent investment, and can worn on any occasion.

I can understand wearing t-shirts of bands and sports teams that you support, but a plain t-shirt that says nothing but OLD NAVY or AMERICAN EAGLE bugs me to no end. Why would you pay a company for the privilege of advertising on your body?
   48. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 01, 2012 at 12:45 AM (#4170365)
Man, some of you dudes would hate me.

I couldn't possibly care less what other people think about how stylish I look (and from what I reading, the answer is not at all. Which would have been my guess anyway). Nor, for that matter, do I care how anyone else dresses. I wear what's comfortable, and the only person whose opinion remotely matters on any of it is my wife. And seeing as we just hit 20 years a few weeks back, I'm probably safe on that front.

I can understand wearing t-shirts of bands and sports teams that you support, but a plain t-shirt that says nothing but OLD NAVY or AMERICAN EAGLE bugs me to no end. Why would you pay a company for the privilege of advertising on your body?


For the record, I don't do that, for that very reason. But if someone else wants to pay for the privilege of advertising, they can knock themselves out.
   49. PreservedFish Posted: July 01, 2012 at 01:20 AM (#4170386)
I remember a year or two ago somebody posted photos of a BTF get together at one of the annual SABR conferences. It amazed me how crappily everyone dressed.
   50. Meatwad Posted: July 01, 2012 at 01:47 AM (#4170402)
Gotta go classy... Well only when i want to, otherwise i dont car but rocking the 3 peice suit is always fun
   51. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 01, 2012 at 11:01 AM (#4170454)
I'm definitely guilty of fashion crimes. I work from home, so I have more comfortable clothes than fashionable clothes (and a solid beer gut). Plus, my girlfriend's long given up on trying to make me a sharp dresser and accepts that I am what I am, which probably isn't great for my wardrobe either.

What particular gets her mad is my tendency to find a shirt that I like and then simply buy one of every color. I mostly wear henley t-shirts around the house, I found one I liked last year and bought it in the other 11 colors. This year, I liked this shirt from Bank, so I bought the other 5 colors too.

Shorts are inevitably going to hit my knee. It is incredibly obnoxious to be a 5'11" guy but with a 29" inseam. It's easy enough to get long pants properly hemmed, but hemmed shorts just look bizarre.
   52. McCoy Posted: July 01, 2012 at 01:28 PM (#4170533)
Today I'm wearing salmon shorts with a baby blue double pocket linen button up shirt and Bass navy canvas shoes.

Last week I went to a ballgame with my cousin and her new boyfriend and we spent the time inadvertently insulting each other's taste in clothes. Well, that and getting drunk.

He made fun of people who wear boating shoes, which I happened to have been wearing, and I made fun of people who wore t-shirts, which he happened to be wearing. So on and so on.

I'm not really into dressing like you are 10 or 15 years old so even my casual garb is generally more formal than most people's idea of casual. I remember last year at a going away party in summer I got some crap because I wore a canvas blazer.
   53. Dock Ellis Posted: July 01, 2012 at 01:29 PM (#4170534)
Easy style tip for you single dudes out there: Do not wear sneakers on a date. I can't tell you the number of times when a woman has outright thanked me, sometimes profusely, for not wearing sneakers on a first date.

Of coures, I'm still single so that can only do so much good but yeah.

   54. Dock Ellis Posted: July 01, 2012 at 01:51 PM (#4170554)
Whaaaat? Blazers are terrific. You can wear the rattiest, hole-ist t-shirt ever, put a sharp blazer on top of it, and be the best-dressed man there.
   55. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 01, 2012 at 01:56 PM (#4170558)
Today I'm wearing salmon shorts with a baby blue double pocket linen button up shirt and Bass navy canvas shoes.


How absolutely darling.

Or ... wait ... is it cunning?

I can't remember. Dammit!

   56. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 01, 2012 at 02:32 PM (#4170601)
Easy style tip for you single dudes out there: Do not wear sneakers on a date. I can't tell you the number of times when a woman has outright thanked me, sometimes profusely, for not wearing sneakers on a first date.


I almost never wear sneakers.

I don't have a lot of shoes though. I don't like effort in my footwear, so I'm almost always wearing brown suede loafers. And when one dies, I get another pair of brown suede loafers.
   57. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 01, 2012 at 02:47 PM (#4170625)
I'm from Arkansas. The mere act of wearing shoes of any sort on a date would be considered unforgivably pretentious.
   58. McCoy Posted: July 01, 2012 at 03:42 PM (#4170701)
I own one pair of sneakers and haven't worn them in about three years. The only time i wear sneakers is if I'm is if I'm doing some athletic activity that doesn't require cleats.
   59. Zipperholes Posted: July 01, 2012 at 05:12 PM (#4170814)
phredbird, thank you for hipping me to that. I've bookmarked it for ideas.
Me too. I try to check in on the men's fashion magazines, but it's often looks that are either kind of out there--like fashion show stuff-- or extremely expensive, like $200 pants. I wish there were more sites that just put together sharp looks that people can afford. Anyone know of any?

Even better, if they say, "here's cool jacket, and here are the types of things you can wear it with." I'm not really interested in buying pre-packaged outfits I see in photos. I want to learn how to take something cool and learn what general kinds of things make sense with it, in order to build my own look.
   60. Never Give an Inge (Dave) Posted: July 01, 2012 at 06:27 PM (#4170852)
For well-made pants that fit well, bonobos.com is usually very good. You'll need to get them tailored afterwards but I've found it's worth it. It was next-to-impossible for me to find store-bought pants that fit me properly before.

I usually have trouble finding clothes that fit me well, so when I find something that works I usually buy three of them in different colors. J. Crew stuff fits me well and is pretty affordable, and probably comprises 50% of my casual wardrobe. My biggest problem before was buying clothes that looked good in a store or on a website, but would sit in my closet unworn for a year because they didn't fit me properly. At a certain point I realized it was better to spend a little more than buy three cheap things and find only one of them really fit.

I'm guilty of wearing sneakers damn-near everywhere (except for to work); that's my main sartorial transgression these days.
   61. phredbird Posted: July 02, 2012 at 12:40 AM (#4171046)
I almost never wear sneakers.


i live in and work in L.A. and have a home in rancho mirage (next door to palm springs) so sneakers are actually an acceptable casual wear item. i favor black low-top converse. they are actually kind of cool looking. however, my g.f. has banned me from wearing them anymore, they've gotten a little worn so i look a little too 'street' when i wear them.

dressing in L.A. is an interesting activity. there is an amazing diversity of accepted business wear. it seems like everybody is working on a personal 'look', especially in the part of town i work in, which is full of young professionals in the entertainment and media businesses. everything from the torn t-shirts and leather look to edwardian-70s bell bottoms etc. ... and that's just the guys. a surprising number of guys like to wear boots.

the one thing i can't abide that is really big in L.A. is a sport coat with jeans. that is just an abomination, i don't care how popular it is.

my boss makes us wear a shirt and tie everyday including fridays, so i've had to kind of ramp up my wardrobe. i used to be a black tshirt and jeans guy at the daily newspaper i worked for. now i wear clothes from a place in beverly hills that caters to men under 5'8". dress slacks, dark shirts, paisley ties ... i don't want to dress as formal as the sales people in my office, so i don't do white shirts unless i have to meet with my boss' boss.
   62. McCoy Posted: July 02, 2012 at 12:51 AM (#4171047)
I don't think there is anything wrong with a sport coat and jeans.
   63. Voros McCracken of Pinkus Posted: July 02, 2012 at 01:45 AM (#4171057)
Deleted for excessive snark
   64. Loren F. Posted: July 02, 2012 at 02:24 AM (#4171061)
One of my problems is that I can't find casual shoes that I like. I'm 45 and I no longer want to wear sneakers. But wearing dress shoes on the weekends isn't ideal either. I'm still looking for something in between.
   65. the Hugh Jorgan returns Posted: July 02, 2012 at 02:43 AM (#4171063)
Sutton was nowhere to be found for the June 22 broadcast against the Chicago Cubs, and hasn't been seen or heard from on a broadcast since.

That's as Hoffaesque statement I've ever read.

I almost never wear sneakers anymore.

Sneakers should never be worn unless you are playing sport. Sneakers and jeans is a fashion faux pas on the level of actually wearing sweatpants in public(unless warming up to participate in an actual sport)

America has the best smart/casual retailers on the planet, yet 95% of the blokes don't seem to know this.
   66. BrianBrianson Posted: July 02, 2012 at 05:56 AM (#4171071)
Me too. I try to check in on the men's fashion magazines, but it's often looks that are either kind of out there--like fashion show stuff-- or extremely expensive, like $200 pants. I wish there were more sites that just put together sharp looks that people can afford.


Context matters a lot here, and nobody's addressing it. $200 for pants is affordable to some, and not others. Personally, I'd rather accept that I'm an obese(-ish) adult male, and go straight to Hawaiian Shirts and Bermuda Shorts. It suits the overweight well, unlike suits, which make me sweat continuously unless I'm outdoors, in January, in Tuktoyaktuk.
   67. Lassus Posted: July 02, 2012 at 07:10 AM (#4171081)
Sneakers should never be worn unless you are playing sport. Sneakers and jeans is a fashion faux pas on the level of actually wearing sweatpants in public(unless warming up to participate in an actual sport)

So, jeans and casual shoes only? Boots only? Doc Martens only? What do you wear with jeans?
   68. CFiJ Posted: July 02, 2012 at 07:49 AM (#4171094)
When I got married, I expected there'd be some arguments, some rough patches. I never in a million years would have thought that one of the biggest, knock-down-drag-out, storm-out-of-the-house, not-talk-to-each-other-for-hours fights we'd have would be over whether I should wear my polo shirt tucked in, or out.

As for sneakers, I'll wear my Nike Frees with anything but a suit, and I don't give a damn if that makes me a lesser man in the eyes of the fashionistas. I want that connection with the ground. I wear dress shoes to work every week day, and I can't feel the ground, but I can feel my tendons shrinking, my gait going to hell, and the shocks to my knees every time I misstep.
   69. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 02, 2012 at 08:00 AM (#4171096)
Sneakers and jeans is a fashion faux pas on the level of actually wearing sweatpants in public(unless warming up to participate in an actual sport)
Well, there are sneakers and there are sneakers. I don't think there's anything wrong with pairing some nice Pumas with jeans, for instance. White sneakers and jeans basically never works, I agree. (And white sneakers with khakis is how to say with your clothes, "I have given up on presenting myself to the world with dignity.")

I've found Topshop, Zara, H&M, and Steve Madden (sale rack) all have nice, affordable, comfortable shoes that can dress down with jeans or up with a nicer outfit.
   70. Adam Starblind Posted: July 02, 2012 at 08:10 AM (#4171099)
I have to wear running shoes with shorts because I would never be caught dead in sandals.
   71. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 08:13 AM (#4171100)
And folks say BBTF doesn't have many female posters.
   72. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 02, 2012 at 08:31 AM (#4171103)
Oh, and also Marc Jacobs (sale rack) for shoes.
   73. Lassus Posted: July 02, 2012 at 09:15 AM (#4171116)
White sneakers and jeans basically never works, I agree.

White sneakers never work, period. I'd go along with this and the jeans, certainly. But not at all some of the stuff you can get at, say, whatever store that is at East 8th and 1st Ave, SW corner. I may be off by a block.


And folks say BBTF doesn't have many female posters
McNulty: "You know what they call a guy who pays that much attention to his clothes, don't you?"

Bunk: "A grown-up."
   74. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 02, 2012 at 09:19 AM (#4171118)
McNulty: "You know what they call a guy who pays that much attention to his clothes, don't you?"

Bunk: "A grown-up" who prefers men.


Not that there's anything wrong with that.
   75. Lassus Posted: July 02, 2012 at 09:23 AM (#4171121)
Bunk: "A grown-up" who prefers men.

I'd say you're nearly as clever as Jim Shooter.
   76. akrasian Posted: July 02, 2012 at 09:49 AM (#4171132)
When I go out on the town, naturally I wear tails. Oh, if I'm "slumming" I very rarely only dress in a tux, but I feel underdressed when I do. No self-respecting man would wear less. In answer to the query about what shoes to wear with jeans, the correct response of course is that gentlemen do not wear jeans - they are reserved for ditch-diggers, night soil gatherers, and other day laborers who just don't care how they dress.

Oh, and of course I never wear white after labor day. Shameful that some young hooligans do nowadays.
   77. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:03 AM (#4171136)
I'd say you're nearly as clever as Jim Shooter.


Was reading an interview in an early Comic Book Artist just yesterday in which his name came up, with the usual opprobrium attached. Can't remember who the speaker was ... Frank Brunner, maybe.
   78. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:09 AM (#4171139)

my boss makes us wear a shirt and tie everyday including fridays, so i've had to kind of ramp up my wardrobe. i used to be a black tshirt and jeans guy at the daily newspaper i worked for. now i wear clothes from a place in beverly hills that caters to men under 5'8". dress slacks, dark shirts, paisley ties ... i don't want to dress as formal as the sales people in my office, so i don't do white shirts unless i have to meet with my boss' boss.


I wore a jacket & tie every day for about 8 years while I was covering the courts & then while I was a day-side line editor. Those went away when I switched to nights, though I don't think I ever wore T-shirts or jeans at work. I doubt that I've worn a white shirt in close to 20 years.
   79. Dan Szymborski Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4171141)
When I got married, I expected there'd be some arguments, some rough patches. I never in a million years would have thought that one of the biggest, knock-down-drag-out, storm-out-of-the-house, not-talk-to-each-other-for-hours fights we'd have would be over whether I should wear my polo shirt tucked in, or out.

I feel the key to any relationship is to establish very early in the process that you're irredeemably incorrigible.
   80. McCoy Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:15 AM (#4171142)
One of my problems is that I can't find casual shoes that I like. I'm 45 and I no longer want to wear sneakers. But wearing dress shoes on the weekends isn't ideal either. I'm still looking for something in between

Depends on what you are doing on the weekend and what you are wearing. Bass has a good lineup of casual shoe

Bucks are always nice, boat shoes, chukkas are good as well, wingtips for a little bit more formal casual, loafers & slip ons. Really there is a ton of casual shoes out there that are not sneakers
   81. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:18 AM (#4171144)
"You know what they call a guy who pays that much attention to his clothes, don't you?"

Masturbatory backslappers?
   82. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4171146)
Bucks are always nice, boat shoes, chukkas are good as well, wingtips for a little bit more formal casual, loafers & slip ons. Really there is a ton of casual shoes out there that are not sneakers


I can't find a decent chukka for cheap (which would be all I can afford, alas -- I'm cheap but I also quite literally live paycheck-to-paycheck) to save my life, alas. I hate the ones with seams; the ones without, like those I wore for large portions of the '70s & '80s, tend to be too pricey for me. Target used to carry some that IIRC would've fit the bill, but last time I checked online they no longer did. Dammit.

I'm pretty sure the only way I would wear boat shoes is if the space-time continuum went nuts & deposited me back in 1987 or so. (It doesn't help that I've got really bad feet -- I've worn orthotics for a quarter-century now -- & need to wear something pretty substantial.)

   83. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:28 AM (#4171149)
In all seriousness, am I just not shopping well that I can't find what you elitists would call nice shoes (casual, dress, etc.) that actual stay tied and on my feet? When I wear shoes that society approves, I constantly feel as if I'm about to fly out of my shoes (and I do, fairly often, actually come out of them).

   84. stig-tossled, hornswoggled gef the typing mongoose Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:37 AM (#4171161)
In all seriousness, am I just not shopping well that I can't find what you elitists would call nice shoes (casual, dress, etc.) that actual stay tied and on my feet? When I wear shoes that society approves, I constantly feel as if I'm about to fly out of my shoes (and I do, fairly often, actually come out of them).


That's been a problem for me as well, since my aforementioned bad feet include bad toes, to the point that I have to wear shoes probably around 2 sizes larger than I normally would. Jesus.
   85. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:49 AM (#4171176)
In all seriousness, am I just not shopping well that I can't find what you elitists would call nice shoes (casual, dress, etc.) that actual stay tied and on my feet?
It sounds like it, yes. Do the salespeople at the shoe stores have you try on the shoes? Do you try on shoes, have them not fit properly, and then purchase them? I definitely find that some shoes just don't fit, so I don't purchase them.

(I'm sorry if those questions sound jerky. I don't really know how else to phrase it. I don't buy shoes that don't fit or don't stay on my feet. I do find lots of shoes that aren't sneakers that do fit and do stay on my feet. I'm not sure why you haven't been able to.)

It's also possible you might need inserts of some kind, if your feet don't fit into shoes at all. But I thought you said you did have some shoes that fit, so the problem is more likely the shoes.
   86. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:56 AM (#4171184)
I have shoes that fit: sneakers, hiking boots, cleats, etc. I have never tried on a pair of anything you'd remotely approve of that felt like it fit, no. The guy insists it fits, I look at it and it sure seems to. And, if I put them on, tie them and don't move, they fit. As soon as I start moving around, they come loose.

This has been the case as long as I remember, which certainly includes periods of my life where I was cheaping out considerably. However, I have plenty of money to spend on clothes and shop in nice places now. Spending more money has not provided me with shoes that seem any better in this regard.
   87. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 02, 2012 at 10:59 AM (#4171190)
Without getting really deep into the weeds of things that can't really be solved over the internet, I highly recommend (a) going to different (better?) stores to purchase your shoes, and (b) telling the salespeople there about your problems with fit.
   88. PreservedFish Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:02 AM (#4171192)
However, I have plenty of money to spend on clothes and shop in nice places now.


You should get some bespoke shoes!
   89. McCoy Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:16 AM (#4171211)
If you have the money then head to an Allen Edmonds store and tell them about your problems. They'll work with you.
   90. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:20 AM (#4171218)
MCoA, I'm 41. I've shopped for shoes for quite awhile now and in many different stores in a several different states. And I've certainly told the salespeople about the problem with fit. I've spent from $50-$200 on shoes. It's possible I've never been to a "better" place - I have never purchased shoes in New York or LA. But, not being snarky, if I have to spend several hundred dollars and travel to a fashion hub, I'll continue wearing sneakers and let you guys think what you will.

Is there a good brand of shoe or shoe store chain for dress shoes anyone would recommend?


I have to say, in a sort of related but sort of not way, that this is why I never believe it when I see a TV or movie character running in dress shoes. If I ran in my dress shoes I'd be barefoot in ten steps. Like I say, I don't think the problem is simply fit, it's movement. When I sit down in the store, put a shoe on, tie it and sit there, the shoe is comfortable and fits. If I walk, it feels, loose. If I get a smaller shoe, it feels too tight even sitting there. It could be I just don't like how they feel and the occasions where they've actually come off have been with cheaper shoes. I can wear basically anything I want at work but there are plenty of occasions where even a hick like me agrees nicer shoes should be worn. Those are also, unfortunately, occasions where coming out of your shoes is inappropriate and embarrassing.
   91. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:23 AM (#4171223)
I've had no trouble running in my dress shoes.

I spent some good money on dress shoes, and they've been an investment that has served me for five years now. I got shoes at Barney's (tremendous service, beautiful shoes if you're willing to drop $200) and at Kenneth Cole (perfectly nice), and they fit well. They're not made for running, but I've been late for fancy and work events and done just fine.
   92. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:37 AM (#4171246)
I'll check them out. Thanks.
   93. The Good Face Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:43 AM (#4171256)
If you have the money then head to an Allen Edmonds store and tell them about your problems. They'll work with you.


This is good advice, Allen Edmonds makes a quality shoe, although you should probably expect to spend more than $200 for a dress shoe by them. Still, you get what you pay for... well made, comfortable shoes that will last you nigh forever if you care for them well. You can even ship them back to the company to completely rebuild them when they're shot. (for a fee of course)

Many years ago, a wise man told me that you can never spend too much money on your dress shoes. Obviously I wouldn't take that literally, but I've found that if you're spending less than $200-250, you're doing it wrong.
   94. McCoy Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:51 AM (#4171267)
Many years ago, a wise man told me that you can never spend too much money on your dress shoes.

My boss is a large man with a large shoe size and has always had trouble buying shoes. I told him about AE and so he headed over to one during one of their sales. He worked with the salesman for awhile and ended up getting a special order. It didn't really fit right so they kept working with him until they found a size that worked for him. He absolutely loves them and since then he has bought 3 more pairs of AE shoes

Bunyon,

Now all caveats about this being the internet and all but it could be an issue with width. Perhaps you have a slimmer width than D size, which is the standard width size for most shoes. I've never had a problem with slippage on my dress shoes and I wear all kinds and brands. Hell, sometimes it feels like I'm running in them half the time I'm at work. Are you lacing your shoes all the way up? What kind of socks are you wearing when you try them on? It's just a really unusual problem to have.
   95. McCoy Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:53 AM (#4171269)
Great, now I'm actually thinking about heading over to an AE store nearby. Thanks a lot.
   96. PreservedFish Posted: July 02, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4171273)
It's just a really unusual problem to have.


Perhaps his username provides a clue.
   97. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 12:00 PM (#4171279)
I lace them all the way up. I have no idea what kind of socks I wear. Dress socks, usually a brownish hue. I think my dress socks are expensive for socks but, given this conversation, imagine I've cheaped out there, too. Seriously, I have things I'd rather spend my time on than keeping tabs what kind of socks I wear.

That isn't meant to sound jerky, either. I just do not care. Having to carefully study clothing seems like a complete waste of time to me. If you like it, grand. But you should be able to get up and get dressed in the morning without worrying about these things.


Maybe I don't spend enough money. I would consider $200 for a pair of nice shoes to be a fine price, but at the upper end of what I'd pay. I basically need to wear dress shoes a couple of times a month (by my standards, not yours).

FWIW, I'm 75 miles from the nearest Allen Edmunds store.
   98. , Posted: July 02, 2012 at 12:04 PM (#4171280)
Perhaps his username provides a clue.

Yeah, this is likely it. I have trouble with clothes in general. At fighting weight, I'm 6'4" 240. I'm about 20 over that at the moment. I wear size 13 shoes, though it's probably more like 12.8 and there aren't usually half sizes there. Thinking about it (I've actually thought more about shoes (and socks) in the last 12 hours, for this thread, than in most of my 40 some years), I tend to wear 13s and lace them very, very tight. That is probably it.

From what I read here, I need to go to a better shop, which will be a considerable drive, and spend time with a salesman. I actually do need to go to Charlotte for something else in a couple of weeks, so maybe I'll do it then. I'll bookmark the thread in case I either need to give thanks or send I told you sos. :)
   99. The Good Face Posted: July 02, 2012 at 12:07 PM (#4171284)
Maybe I don't spend enough money. I would consider $200 for a pair of nice shoes to be a fine price, but at the upper end of what I'd pay. I basically need to wear dress shoes a couple of times a month (by my standards, not yours).


Well, assuming you must wear dress shoes twice a month or so, it might be worthwhile to spring for ONE nice pair that really fits you, and if it costs extra, it costs extra. A quality pair of men's dress shoes will last ages if only worn twice a month, assuming they're cared for reasonably well.
   100. McCoy Posted: July 02, 2012 at 12:11 PM (#4171289)
Well, the online store has a free return policy.

I wasn't asking if you own expensive socks. I'm only wondering if you were wearing an athletic sock or something when you were trying them on and then wore a dress sock while walking around in them.

Your dress shoe problem has nothing to do with the price of the shoes.

Some other things I can think of is that you are just not breaking them in or I guess PF could be right and you have a bunion. For the first problem you can take your shoes to a shoe repair place and have them work on your shoes. Perhaps you need inserts, pads, or to roll the heel. Tongue pads can help push your foot back into the heel of the shoe. If you have to tie your shoes really tight you might just be wearing a shoe that is too wide. At size 13 you might just have to special order your shoes.

Like I said I'm just a guy on the internet that hasn't seen your feet or your shoes.
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