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Saturday, October 20, 2012

The Economist: He did the time

An argument to reinstate Melky Cabrera as a bench player if the Giants advance to the World Series.

He had served his time, and keeping him off the roster would be an unfair extension of his sentence. It could also conceivably allow the MLB players’ union to file a grievance on his behalf…

The Giants are currently carrying two weak-hitting backup infielders on their 25-man roster in Ryan Theriot and Joaquín Arias. It’s hard to see the utility of having two utility infielders at once. Moreover, Xavier Nady, San Francisco’s only backup outfielder, has not produced acceptable numbers for a player at his position since 2008, and is a defensive liability to boot. Might one of those roster spots not be better invested in Mr Cabrera, despite all his baggage?

David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 20, 2012 at 12:02 PM | 32 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: giants, steroids

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   1. dr. scott Posted: October 20, 2012 at 01:11 PM (#4277440)
I would be fine with him replacing Huff if the Giants should be so fortunate. I missed all the articles where the giants said they would not put him on the roster... Which I assume must have been written.
   2. dr. scott Posted: October 20, 2012 at 01:15 PM (#4277442)
Ok I looked it up. Interesting about the playoff shares too.

http://blog.sfgate.com/giants/2012/09/27/sf-giants-formally-announce-melky-cabrera-is-out-for-postseason/
   3. tshipman Posted: October 20, 2012 at 01:25 PM (#4277449)
I agree with the premise of the article. Apparently, Melky is an ####### or something.

As far as this statement:
The Giants are currently carrying two weak-hitting backup infielders on their 25-man roster in Ryan Theriot and Joaquín Arias. It’s hard to see the utility of having two utility infielders at once.


Arias is a righty, and the Giants were using him and Crawford in a platoon. No idea if Bochy still is willing to do that as Crawford is a much better defender than Arias. Bochy doesn't seem to think that The Riot can play 3b, and Bochy really only subs him in at 2nd.

Xavier Nady, San Francisco’s only backup outfielder, has not produced acceptable numbers for a player at his position since 2008


Again, this is a bit misleading, as Belt is also a backup outfielder. If CF or RF goes down, then Blanco moves to those positions and Belt plays LF. Now, that isn't a great argument for Nady, but again, Melky is apparently persona non grata in the clubhouse.
   4. zenbitz Posted: October 20, 2012 at 01:30 PM (#4277453)
I think the Giants are mad at Melky for the coverup. After all, there was very little press about Mota who served a 100 game suspension this year.
   5. The District Attorney Posted: October 20, 2012 at 01:32 PM (#4277455)
I missed all the articles where the giants said they would not put him on the roster... Which I assume must have been written.
Yeah, they have been and some have been posted here, but it hasn't exactly become a cause celebre. I'm really shocked this isn't a bigger story. It's pretty outrageous.
   6. tshipman Posted: October 20, 2012 at 01:38 PM (#4277465)
Yeah, they have been and some have been posted here, but it hasn't exactly become a cause celebre. I'm really shocked this isn't a bigger story. It's pretty outrageous.


/shrug. I'm not in the clubhouse. And, like it or not, his suspension was a pretty big rally point for the team. They played their asses off after that. I am not crazy about it, but it's what the team wants.
   7. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: October 20, 2012 at 02:00 PM (#4277481)
He hasn't played professional baseball in 2+ months, so inserting him during the playoffs doesn't seem like a plan that is likely to succeed. I think I'd rather take Ryan Theriot on my roster given the circumstances.

   8. David Concepcion de la Desviacion Estandar (Dan R) Posted: October 20, 2012 at 02:20 PM (#4277493)
Well, but SF could have started getting him back into shape weeks ago. That's a self-made problem.
   9. Commissioner Bud Black Beltre Hillman Posted: October 20, 2012 at 02:31 PM (#4277495)
Well, but SF could have started getting him back into shape weeks ago. That's a self-made problem.

A team choosing not to utilize all its assets, hmmmm.... Why isn't half of BBTF carrying pitchforks and demanding Sabean's pink slip? After all, flags fly forever and you never know if you'll get a chance to go back.
   10. Joe OBrien Posted: October 20, 2012 at 02:56 PM (#4277507)
Melky's biggest mistake was leaving the clubhouse and stadium without saying anything the day his suspension was confirmed. If he had gone around the clubhouse apologizing he wouldn't have lost the team. Sabean and Bochy might still not want to use him, but it would be a lot harder if he had the support of his teammates.

Blanco apparently still hasn't talked to him, and he was his closest friend on the team.
   11. dr. scott Posted: October 20, 2012 at 03:01 PM (#4277510)
I still don't understand why he would re place the riot. Get rid of Huff!!! He is beyond useless. He's worse than overweight out of shape Melky.

That being said, if the team does not want him for other reasons... I can live with that.
   12. President of the David Eckstein Fan Club Posted: October 20, 2012 at 03:02 PM (#4277511)
He hasn't played professional baseball in 2+ months, so inserting him during the playoffs doesn't seem like a plan that is likely to succeed. I think I'd rather take Ryan Theriot on my roster given the circumstances.


Brett Gardner mocks your lack of faith!*

*not exactly equivalent, I know
   13. Brian White Posted: October 20, 2012 at 03:17 PM (#4277518)
He's worse than overweight out of shape Melky.


Maybe, but a rusty, fat, non-roided-up Melky isn't exactly an asset.
   14. OsunaSakata Posted: October 20, 2012 at 03:40 PM (#4277529)
I think the Giants are mad at Melky for the coverup. After all, there was very little press about Mota who served a 100 game suspension this year.


Is that the story? Because I was trying to figure what the difference was between their offenses. Why was Mota welcomed back but not Cabrera?
   15. Dan from NM Posted: October 20, 2012 at 03:52 PM (#4277535)
OsunaSakata, the unofficial word from the team was that, yes, the Mota and Cabrera situations are different. MLB investigators believed (or confirmed?) Mota's story that he tested positive because he took his kid's cough syrup without realizing it would trigger a positive test.

Cabrera, meanwhile, deliberately tried to beat the system and wouldn't address his teammates after getting caught.
   16. Walt Davis Posted: October 20, 2012 at 05:15 PM (#4277586)
Ahh ... Xavier Nady ...

239/289/350, 72 OPS+, -2.5 WAR, 2009-12

Naturally, it's the Giants, aka the Cardinals of the NL West, so he is putting up a 110 OPS+ for them in 57 PA.
   17. PreservedFish Posted: October 20, 2012 at 05:52 PM (#4277604)
I can't help but think that it's easier to forgive a barely useful, low profile player like Guillermo Mota than it is a news phenomenon like Melky.
   18. VoodooR Posted: October 20, 2012 at 06:01 PM (#4277613)
MLB investigators believed (or confirmed?) Mota's story that he tested positive because he took his kid's cough syrup without realizing it would trigger a positive test.


Yet he was still suspended for 100 games?!? It must have been his second suspension, so maybe he had lost the benefit of the doubt, but if OTC cough syrup can trigger a false positive, I've got to wonder about the whole testing apparatus.
   19. bobm Posted: October 20, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4277631)
Every time the Giants win a game, Bochy peels a section off the life-sized Melky Cabrera cardboard cut-out poster.
   20. Ron J Posted: October 20, 2012 at 08:56 PM (#4277700)
#18 It's actually a well known issue. Some high profile athletes have tested positive due to OTC medicine. Silken Laumann comes to mind and she's not the only one.

Hell, an NHL player has failed a drug test for propecia (IE artificially enhanced hair). You have to accept some mighty strange results when you don't allow the "good faith" defense.
   21. Walt Davis Posted: October 20, 2012 at 11:34 PM (#4277769)
ough syrup can trigger a false positive,

It's not (necessarily) a false positive. It is the joys of zero tolerance.

Alberto Contador, from the ruling giving him a 2-year ban [UCI is the international cycling federation which requested the ban on Contador]:

The case began when a laboratory in Cologne found 50 picograms per milliliter of clenbuterol in a urine sample Contador gave to anti-doping officials on the last rest day of the 2010 race, an amount the UCI called “very small” and scientists said would not have improved his performance.

The court found that it was “highly unlikely” a steak Contador ate was contaminated and said submissions by WADA and UCI that Contador might have re-infused his own blood to boost performance, leaving traces of clenbuterol, were “equally unlikely.”

Instead, the court said it was more likely the clenbuterol came from a contaminated food supplement.


So Contador was banned for two years and lost a TdF title for a non-performance-enhancing level of a drug which the court banning him said likely came from a contaminated supplement.
   22. Robert in Manhattan Beach Posted: October 20, 2012 at 11:47 PM (#4277774)
The top two teams in the NL both not trying as hard as they could and both will be eliminated because of it. At least there is that small shred justice in a season that will be capped by crowning the 11th or 12th best team the "World Champion".
   23. dr. scott Posted: October 21, 2012 at 12:09 AM (#4277785)
Sure but it's much more likely that the clenbuterol was from stored blood earlier in the season reinfected during the tour. He tested positive for plasticizers from blood bags. Not yet an official positive test though. Also he lst his subsequent Giro ditalia win as well. Actually I would not be surprised if lance or Johan somehow slipped the clen in him. Schlecks defense for testing positive this year is sabotage by Johan.
   24. JoeHova Posted: October 21, 2012 at 12:50 AM (#4277813)
I assumed this was about Pete Rose.
   25. Walt Davis Posted: October 21, 2012 at 02:21 AM (#4277832)
The top two teams in the NL both not trying as hard as they could and both will be eliminated because of it.

Melky wouldn't be eligible until the WS so, for now, the Giants are giving it their darnedest.

Sure but it's much more likely that the clenbuterol was from stored blood earlier in the season reinfected during the tour.

And I re-quote with emphasis added:

The court found that it was “highly unlikely” a steak Contador ate was contaminated and said submissions by WADA and UCI that Contador might have re-infused his own blood to boost performance, leaving traces of clenbuterol, were “equally unlikely.”
   26. SoSH U at work Posted: October 21, 2012 at 02:36 AM (#4277836)
Melky wouldn't be eligible until the WS so, for now, the Giants are giving it their darnedest.


Mekly would have been eligible for the NLCS, but the Giants told him to stay home.

What I can't figure out is when the Giants became one of the top two teams in the NL (assuming the other team is Washington, since I can't figure out what St. Louis would be doing that would constitute not trying as hard as they can).
   27. BDC Posted: October 21, 2012 at 09:36 AM (#4277872)
I can't figure out what St. Louis would be doing that would constitute not trying as hard as they can

They refused to click the ruby slippers on Friday and come back effortlessly from five runs down :)
   28. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: October 21, 2012 at 09:50 AM (#4277875)
Please. They're done with him, he's gone, everybody get over it.
   29. dr. scott Posted: October 21, 2012 at 10:45 AM (#4277896)
Thanks for the re-quote. I never got around to reading he decision and apparently skimmed your post the first time around. Sorry bout that.

It's odd they would call contaminated food substance that was not a steak, the most likely cause. Also there is the possibility for less than a 2 year ban if it's not taken on purpose. I'll have to dig up the decision and see the fine points. My original understanding was not that they thought the blood story was unlikely, but that the evidence was not allowed to be used as it was a test still undergoing scrutiny.
   30. Joey B.: posting for the kids of northeast Ohio Posted: October 21, 2012 at 11:05 AM (#4277903)
What I can't figure out is when the Giants became one of the top two teams in the NL.

Really? They've been a pretty good team for three or four seasons now. They won the World Series just two years ago, remember?
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: October 21, 2012 at 12:32 PM (#4277987)
Really? They've been a pretty good team for three or four seasons now. They won the World Series just two years ago, remember?


The Nats and the Reds are the two best teams in the NL (by virtue of record), the Giants and Cards (by virtue of being the final two teams standing, or your stated argument of the best teams for multiple seasons) or, the Nats and Cards, if you're a pythag sort. There is no combination of "top two teams in the NL" that leads you to Nats and Giants (the two teams that can arguably be said weren't trying as hard as they could).

   32. dr. scott Posted: October 21, 2012 at 12:42 PM (#4277996)
Ok lots of hair splitting in the condador case, though in the end they probably made the right decision. As for blood issues. CAS indeed did not find it probable, though WADA thought it was the most probable. WADA almost boycotted the proceedings when CAS said they would not hear the testimony from Dr. Ashenden on transfusions and plasticizers, but it was eventually entered into evidence. in the end it just seemed like CAS thought the route to probability of blood transfusion was too complicated and controversial so kind of ignored it by taking contadors side on some points and WADAs side on others and then claiming it was possible but improbable, and giving a 2 yer ban anyway. Interesting part is that even though the most probable thing they mention, tainted food supplements, would not have been an act of deliberate doping on contadors part, because contador did not prove that was how they were accidentally injested ( as he was focused on the tainted steak) he got the whole 2 years.

(At least I know now how contador left me in the dust on the publicity group ride through Tiberon 2 years ago. )

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