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Saturday, April 28, 2012

The Guy Who Ruined Bryce Harper’s First-Ever Hit

Off with the crack of the at bat…

rt

Whenever this highlight is shown. Whenever this highlight is shown, for the rest of Bryce Harper’s life.

Repoz Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:36 PM | 53 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: assenmacher, nationals

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   1. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4118825)
That's messed up.
   2. Greasy Neale Heaton (Dan Lee) Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:56 PM (#4118832)
Won't somebody, anybody, think of the kids?
   3. Don Malcolm Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:08 AM (#4118835)
Something tells me that it's not going to get shown all that much...

Meanwhile, Harper doubled in his third AB, nearly got an ass-ist on a throw to the plate (but Jerry Hairston dislodged the ball from Wilson Ramos' glove), then hit a sac fly to move the Nationals into the lead in the ninth. Henry Rodriguez is a bit wobbly in his close-out inning, however...first and third, no one out.
   4. shock Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:15 AM (#4118838)
Time for a lot of people to collect.
   5. The Yankee Clapper Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:26 AM (#4118849)
Ruin? It's not like Harper was looking at the clown.
   6. Bob Meta-Meusel Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:27 AM (#4118851)
It's nowhere near as bad as watching the two idiots run with Hank Aaron for the last 38 years.
   7. Tripon Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:50 AM (#4118857)
Dodgers win 4-3 on a Matt Kemp homer.
   8. Joyful Calculus Instructor Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:56 AM (#4118860)
I really wanted to click "like" on Tripon's post.
   9. clowns to the left of me; STEAGLES to the right Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:05 AM (#4118861)
is anyone else massively disappointed about the lack of facepaint?
   10. puck Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:09 AM (#4118862)
I really wanted to click "like" on Tripon's post.


Bob Meta-Meusel nailed it. When the time machine is finally invented, I hope someone goes back and punches those two guys in the face.
   11. Dale Sams Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:03 AM (#4118870)
I found it amusing that the Nats announcers thought Ramos dropped the ball, and Vin Scully thought Hairston knocked the ball out of Ramos glove.
   12. boteman is not here 'til October Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:02 AM (#4118887)
A$$ clown?
   13. zachtoma Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:06 AM (#4118888)
I watched that game and I totally didn't notice that.
   14. Austin Posted: April 29, 2012 at 04:45 AM (#4118891)
Harper was playing with the fire of a thousand burning suns today. He was swinging as though the ball had committed some terrible crime against him (which did mean that his double was hit at about 115 mph!), and he was running the bases as though he were in an Olympic sprint race. His throw was pretty amazing, too.
   15. Fancy Pants Handles lap changes with class Posted: April 29, 2012 at 05:04 AM (#4118894)
I hope they ejected his ass.
   16. alkeiper Posted: April 29, 2012 at 05:15 AM (#4118895)
The highlight on MLB.com from MASN somehow keeps it completely out of sight.
   17. Tim McCarver's Orange Marmalade Posted: April 29, 2012 at 06:11 AM (#4118896)
Now he's going to be the butt of jokes in the Nationals locker room. In the end, that is just the lot of a rookie.
   18. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 29, 2012 at 06:35 AM (#4118898)
Time for a lot of people to collect.

3. Lazzeri** Posted: June 15, 2009 at 02:04 AM (#3219433)
God, I hate hype. I'll give each of you $2,000 bucks if this kid ever makes it to the major leagues.


**Last seen on August 22, 2010 01:42 PM. Anyone knowing "Lazzeri's" whereabouts please report to the BTF Collection Agency.
   19. Brian Norton Posted: April 29, 2012 at 07:59 AM (#4118899)
#15
I hope they ejected his ass.


...and the rest of him, too.

-Bri
   20. Jorge Luis Bourjos (Walewander) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:34 AM (#4118900)
That double Harper hit was crushed. Unbelievable throw, too.

But enough about this Harper ham-n-egger. How bout that Drew Smyly? 6 IP, 7K, 1 ER at the Stadium.
   21. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:39 AM (#4118902)
Eh, not as impressive as this guy's major league debut.
   22. Leroy Kincaid Posted: April 29, 2012 at 08:43 AM (#4118903)
Was that Angus Young?
   23. Jolly Old St. Nick Still Gags in October Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:29 AM (#4118913)
Okay, Gonfalon, what's the punch line?

Here's my personal favorite debut, Ozzie Virgil, Sr. 5 for 5 in a game where he also became the first black player to wear the Old English "D" in the Tigers' home park.
   24. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:44 AM (#4118915)
4 or more hits, Major league debut

2 or more dingers, Major league debut

wow--that Arencibia kid looks like a keeper
   25. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:01 AM (#4118918)
#23-- The, er, bottom of the first reveals all.
   26. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:23 AM (#4118924)
I found it amusing that the Nats announcers thought Ramos dropped the ball, and Vin Scully thought Hairston knocked the ball out of Ramos glove.


I could never really tell when/why Ramos dropped it, but it sure as hell looked like Hairston targeted the mitt with his hands/arms. If Arod is called out for such a play, why shouldn't Ramos be similarly booked?

Then again, if players are allowed to try to knock the ball out of the catcher's mitt through hard contact, why the hell is Arod's move illegal?
   27. Bob Evans Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:41 AM (#4118933)
Here's my personal favorite debut, Ozzie Virgil, Sr. 5 for 5 in a game where he also became the first black player to wear the Old English "D" in the Tigers' home park.

Forgive my ignorance, but how is that his debut? It was his third year in MLB. He played the day before.
   28. Swedish Chef Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:59 AM (#4118938)
Forgive my ignorance, but how is that his debut? It was his third year in MLB. He played the day before.

Not debut, the first black player playing a home game for the Tigers. It was his first year in Detroit and his first home game, even though it was in June.

And to nitpick, he didn't play the day before, that was a travel day.
   29. phredbird Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:41 AM (#4118957)
If Arod is called out for such a play, why shouldn't Ramos be similarly booked?


two things, i believe. i don't think the ump saw it, he was on the other side of the play. and it may be that they don't call it on a play at the plate unless its really blatant. i don't know.
   30. bobm Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:48 AM (#4118960)
Then again, if players are allowed to try to knock the ball out of the catcher's mitt through hard contact, why the hell is Arod's move illegal?

Unlike the catcher, who may block home plate, the first baseman may not block first base.
   31. phredbird Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:56 AM (#4118967)
Then again, if players are allowed to try to knock the ball out of the catcher's mitt through hard contact, why the hell is Arod's move illegal?

Unlike the catcher, who may block home plate, the first baseman may not block first base.


???
   32. Dale Sams Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:17 PM (#4118977)
If Arod is called out for such a play, why shouldn't Ramos be similarly booked?


Not only that, but since it's generally flagged for being 'unsportsmanlike', should Hairston be at least fined after the fact? I think something like that isn't out of the question. It looked like he may swatted Ramos glove, and certainly tried to swat the ball away rolling on the ground.

   33. gator92 Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:41 PM (#4118984)
While it looked to me that he was intentionally swiping at the glove, in that situation, if you were reaching to touch home plate, how different would it have looked? Some reasonable doubt there...
   34. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:51 PM (#4118991)
Unlike the catcher, who may block home plate, the first baseman may not block first base.


So if a catcher is not blocking the plate but trying a swipe tag, you'd say that trying to knock the ball out of his glove was against the rules? Not to imply that any of us actually know the rules, of course, but it seems to me that if an infielder is putting his glove in between a base runner and a base, then he is, in point of fact, blocking that base, and there is not much difference between kicking the ball out of the glove with a feet first slide and knocking the ball out of the glove with a hands-first dive. It seems to me that this call hinges on the umpire inferring intent, and it's a lot easier to infer intent when you see the base runner make a clear move for the fielder's glove with his hands.
   35. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: April 29, 2012 at 12:55 PM (#4118992)
Considering Harper's tendency towards douchiness he might be pleased that someone mooned the camera for his first hit.
   36. Bourbon Samurai in Asia Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:18 PM (#4119010)
Man, I hope he doesn't need a dude to show his ass every time he wants to get a hit.
   37. CFiJ Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:34 PM (#4119023)
If a fielder blocks a runner's path to the base, the runner is entirely allowed to bowl them over to knock the ball loose. See Belle vs Vina. A-Rod slapped Arroyo's hand as he was coming to make the tag, and that's interference. If a runner used his hand to chop the ball out of a catcher's glove while sliding into home, that'd be interference, too.
   38. Dan Posted: April 29, 2012 at 01:59 PM (#4119038)
If a runner used his hand to chop the ball out of a catcher's glove while sliding into home, that'd be interference, too.


You mean exactly what Hairston did on the play in question? Watch the clip around 45 seconds in until the end for the multiple replay angles.
   39. bobm Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:05 PM (#4119041)
So if a catcher is not blocking the plate but trying a swipe tag, you'd say that trying to knock the ball out of his glove was against the rules?

My point basically was that the obstruction and interference rules seem to be interpreted differently at each base (and in different situations). Consider for instance: a tag play at the plate (catcher setting up in front of the plate to receive a throw); a force play (fielder standing in the baseline) at first base; and a pickoff attempt at first base (first baseman blocking the side of the base with his foot). At home plate, umpires seem to tolerate a lot more from catchers which would be deemed obstruction by other fielders and they seem to tolerate a lot more from runners which would be deemed interference by runners at other bases.

Not to imply that any of us actually know the rules, of course, but it seems to me that if an infielder is putting his glove in between a base runner and a base, then he is, in point of fact, blocking that base

Here's the definition of obstruction:

Rule 2.0 ... OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner. [Emphasis added]

Rule 2.00 (Obstruction) Comment: If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball he may be considered “in the act of fielding a ball.” It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball. After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and missed, he can no longer be in the “act of fielding” the ball. For example: an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner.


and there is not much difference between kicking the ball out of the glove with a feet first slide and knocking the ball out of the glove with a hands-first dive. It seems to me that this call hinges on the umpire inferring intent, and it's a lot easier to infer intent when you see the base runner make a clear move for the fielder's glove with his hands.


INTERFERENCE
(a) Offensive interference is an act by the team at bat which interferes with, obstructs, impedes, hinders or confuses any fielder attempting to make a play. If the umpire declares the batter, batter-runner, or a runner out for interference, all other runners shall return to the last base that was in the judgment of the umpire, legally touched at the time of the interference, unless otherwise provided by these rules. ...

A TAG is the action of a fielder in touching a base with his body while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove; or touching a runner with the ball, or with his hand or glove holding the ball, while holding the ball securely and firmly in his hand or glove. It is not a tag, however, if simultaneously or immediately following his touching a base or touching a runner, the fielder drops the ball. In establishing the validity of the tag, the fielder shall hold the ball long enough to prove that he has complete control of the ball. If the fielder has made a tag and drops the ball while in the act of making a throw following the tag, the tag shall be adjudged to have been made. [EDITed to add emphasis]


In this case, the <a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c>video</a> seems to show that
(a) Ramos did not securely have the ball when he tagged Hairston;
(b) Ramos was tangled up with Hairston behind home plate after Ramos lost possession of the ball;
(c) Hairston moved his right hand twice
(c) i. once it looks like he is trying to reach through Ramos to touch the plate,
(c) ii. the second time, while Hairston may have swiped at the ball, his hand seems never to have come within 6 inches of the ball. The ball was already rolling away from Ramos without Hairston's help.
   40. Dan Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:11 PM (#4119044)
bobm, watch the video in my post above yours. The Dodgers' feed does a much better job showing what Hairston was actually doing. They completely missed it on MASN.
   41. bobm Posted: April 29, 2012 at 02:36 PM (#4119060)
[40] I watched the Dodgers feed, and it is hard to see what Hairston did with his left hand and whether Ramos had the ball securely. This is the kind of laissez faire play calling that happens ISTM on plays at the plate.

With respect to the call and appeal:

If you watch the MASN feed, you first see a coach (Porter) in the dugout motioning with his right hand, referring to Hairston's act after the collision/tag. Then, when Johnson argues with the ump, he clearly gestured with his right hand twice as if pushing or grabbing or rolling a loose ball, and Hairston's right hand had nothing to do with the ball rolling away from the plate and missed the ball completely.
   42. Dan Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:05 PM (#4119086)
Harper playing CF today, still batting 7th, facing the lefty Capuano. They really should just put him in CF every day. Ankiel is not such a good CF that they should be putting Harper in a corner.
   43. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: April 29, 2012 at 03:19 PM (#4119105)
Nobody puts Bonus Baby in a corner!
   44. winnipegwhip Posted: April 29, 2012 at 09:57 PM (#4119444)
That is a disgusting act and we apologize that we had shown that to you.
   45. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:27 PM (#4119460)
My point basically was that the obstruction and interference rules seem to be interpreted differently at each base (and in different situations). Consider for instance: a tag play at the plate (catcher setting up in front of the plate to receive a throw); a force play (fielder standing in the baseline) at first base; and a pickoff attempt at first base (first baseman blocking the side of the base with his foot). At home plate, umpires seem to tolerate a lot more from catchers which would be deemed obstruction by other fielders and they seem to tolerate a lot more from runners which would be deemed interference by runners at other bases.


And my point is, there's nothing in the rulebook that allows for that.

I agree that more is allowed at home than what goes on at other bases (I also agree Johnson and the Nats bench was protesting the attempt to swat the ball by Hairston, rather than the attempt to strip). I simply disagree that there should be a difference in the way plays are called at home rather than the other bases.

And, my point isn't that that the Arod play should be made a legal maneuver. I simply think that there's nothing consistent with the Arod play resulting in an out, while the Hairston play is acceptable. Moreover, this inconsistency further cements my belief that MLB ought to outlaw all types of plays, at all bases, where the runner tries to dislodge a ball from a player's possession through hard contact. The home-plate collision is not only incongruous with the way the game is played in all other aspects, it results in inconsistent application of the rules from one base to the next.
   46. Jim Wisinski Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:42 PM (#4119467)
2 or more dingers, Major league debut

wow--that Arencibia kid looks like a keeper


That game led to some serious confusion for me the next season when I saw comments on here suggesting that Arencibia wasn't very good.
   47. Kurt Posted: April 29, 2012 at 10:44 PM (#4119470)
Considering Harper's tendency towards douchiness he might be pleased that someone mooned the camera for his first hit.

Being pleased about it (or at least taking it in good humor) would be distinctly non-douchey. Douchey would be complaining/upset about it.
   48. bobm Posted: April 29, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4119504)
[45] And my point is, there's nothing in the rulebook that allows for that.

That's right - it's an issue of (mis)interpretation and tradition, not unlike the "neighborhood play" at second base which evolved presumably as a way to protect second basemen from hard contact at a vulnerable moment when the written rules were inadequate to the situation.

I simply disagree that there should be a difference in the way plays are called at home rather than the other bases.

I assume you disagree with the umpires here, because I do not think I wrote that there should be a difference, just that one exists.

And, my point isn't that that the Arod play should be made a legal maneuver. I simply think that there's nothing consistent with the Arod play resulting in an out, while the Hairston play is acceptable.

Agreed, assuming you mean the likely strip with the left hand by Hairston, and not the ineffectual swat with the right.

Moreover, this inconsistency further cements my belief that MLB ought to outlaw all types of plays, at all bases, where the runner tries to dislodge a ball from a player's possession through hard contact. The home-plate collision is not only incongruous with the way the game is played in all other aspects, it results in inconsistent application of the rules from one base to the next.

The interference rule is quite vague on the tactic of a runner's dislodging a ball from a fielder's hand or glove, while the rules cover all types of other specific infractions by the runner. 7.08 includes:

(b) He intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball;...

(i) After he has acquired legal possession of a base, he runs the bases in reverse order for the purpose of confusing the defense or making a travesty of the game. The umpire shall immediately call Time and declare the runner out;
Rule 7.08(i) Comment: If a runner touches an unoccupied base and then thinks the ball was caught or is decoyed into returning to the base he last touched, he may be put out running back to that base, but if he reaches the previously occupied base safely he cannot be put out while in contact with that base.


7.09 includes:

(d) Comment: If the batter or a runner continues to advance after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.
(e) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a base runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead. The umpire shall call the runner out for interference and also call out the batter-runner because of the action of his teammate. In no event may bases be run or runs scored because of such action by a runner.
(f) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a batter-runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball, with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead; ...

(k)A fair ball touches him on fair territory before touching a fielder. If a fair ball goes through, or by, an infielder, and touches a runner immediately back of him, or touches the runner after having been deflected by a fielder, the umpire shall not declare the runner out for being touched by a batted ball. In making such decision the umpire must be convinced that the ball passed through, or by, the fielder, and that no other infielder had the chance to make a play on the ball. If, in the judgment of the umpire, the runner deliberately and intentionally kicks such a batted ball on which the infielder has missed a play, then the runner shall be called out for interference.
PENALTY FOR INTERFERENCE: The runner is out and the ball is dead.


The best reason IMO to outlaw the home plate collision is that someone could get seriously hurt for no good reason.
   49. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: April 30, 2012 at 12:24 AM (#4119521)
I assume you disagree with the umpires here, because I do not think I wrote that there should be a difference, just that one exists.


Yes. Not with you, but with the way the game is called.

Agreed, assuming you mean the likely strip with the left hand by Hairston, and not the ineffectual swat with the right.


Yes, those are the two plays that are analogous, not the swat (though if he made contact with the swat, that too should be deemed worthy of an out).

The interference rule is quite vague on the tactic of a runner's dislodging a ball from a fielder's hand or glove, while the rules cover all types of other specific infractions by the runner. 7.08 includes:


It's vagueness is kind of irrelevant (since I'm not afraid of rewriting the rulebook to eliminate any vagueness). Baseball clearly allows players to try to dislodge the baseball from the possession of fielders through hard contact, unless that hard contact is done with the hand/arm. That is illogical to me, and thus I think it should be written out of the game.

The best reason IMO to outlaw the home plate collision is that someone could get seriously hurt for no good reason.


Agreed. But the distinction here provides an argument for consistency on top of the argument for player safety.


   50. Infinite Joost (Voxter) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 01:17 AM (#4119540)
Considering Harper's tendency towards douchiness he might be pleased that someone mooned the camera for his first hit.


I think I'd be pretty amused if someone mooned me at the very instant I got my first hit. Life's too short not to be.
   51. Dave Spiwak Posted: April 30, 2012 at 03:58 PM (#4120017)
Is flipping one's batting helmet off between first and second on the way to a stand-up double deemed to be within the confines of "playing the game the right way"?
   52. Jeff Frances the Mute Posted: April 30, 2012 at 06:30 PM (#4120128)
I think I'd be pretty amused if someone mooned me at the very instant I got my first hit. Life's too short not to be.


No doubt. I think this is particularly true since Harper is 19. Mooning is way funnier when you are 19 than it is when you are 29.
   53. Jarrod HypnerotomachiaPoliphili(Teddy F. Ballgame) Posted: April 30, 2012 at 08:59 PM (#4120280)
Is flipping one's batting helmet off between first and second on the way to a stand-up double deemed to be within the confines of "playing the game the right way"?


I don't know, but it was such a clear stand-up double that he was obviously thinking about third. Maybe his helmet is extra-heavy to protect his extra-big head, or maybe he just wanted to show off his cool pseudo-mullet.

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