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1. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: April 28, 2012 at 11:51 PM (#4118825)Meanwhile, Harper doubled in his third AB, nearly got an ass-ist on a throw to the plate (but Jerry Hairston dislodged the ball from Wilson Ramos' glove), then hit a sac fly to move the Nationals into the lead in the ninth. Henry Rodriguez is a bit wobbly in his close-out inning, however...first and third, no one out.
Bob Meta-Meusel nailed it. When the time machine is finally invented, I hope someone goes back and punches those two guys in the face.
**Last seen on August 22, 2010 01:42 PM. Anyone knowing "Lazzeri's" whereabouts please report to the BTF Collection Agency.
...and the rest of him, too.
-Bri
But enough about this Harper ham-n-egger. How bout that Drew Smyly? 6 IP, 7K, 1 ER at the Stadium.
Here's my personal favorite debut, Ozzie Virgil, Sr. 5 for 5 in a game where he also became the first black player to wear the Old English "D" in the Tigers' home park.
2 or more dingers, Major league debut
wow--that Arencibia kid looks like a keeper
I could never really tell when/why Ramos dropped it, but it sure as hell looked like Hairston targeted the mitt with his hands/arms. If Arod is called out for such a play, why shouldn't Ramos be similarly booked?
Then again, if players are allowed to try to knock the ball out of the catcher's mitt through hard contact, why the hell is Arod's move illegal?
Forgive my ignorance, but how is that his debut? It was his third year in MLB. He played the day before.
Not debut, the first black player playing a home game for the Tigers. It was his first year in Detroit and his first home game, even though it was in June.
And to nitpick, he didn't play the day before, that was a travel day.
two things, i believe. i don't think the ump saw it, he was on the other side of the play. and it may be that they don't call it on a play at the plate unless its really blatant. i don't know.
Unlike the catcher, who may block home plate, the first baseman may not block first base.
???
Not only that, but since it's generally flagged for being 'unsportsmanlike', should Hairston be at least fined after the fact? I think something like that isn't out of the question. It looked like he may swatted Ramos glove, and certainly tried to swat the ball away rolling on the ground.
So if a catcher is not blocking the plate but trying a swipe tag, you'd say that trying to knock the ball out of his glove was against the rules? Not to imply that any of us actually know the rules, of course, but it seems to me that if an infielder is putting his glove in between a base runner and a base, then he is, in point of fact, blocking that base, and there is not much difference between kicking the ball out of the glove with a feet first slide and knocking the ball out of the glove with a hands-first dive. It seems to me that this call hinges on the umpire inferring intent, and it's a lot easier to infer intent when you see the base runner make a clear move for the fielder's glove with his hands.
You mean exactly what Hairston did on the play in question? Watch the clip around 45 seconds in until the end for the multiple replay angles.
My point basically was that the obstruction and interference rules seem to be interpreted differently at each base (and in different situations). Consider for instance: a tag play at the plate (catcher setting up in front of the plate to receive a throw); a force play (fielder standing in the baseline) at first base; and a pickoff attempt at first base (first baseman blocking the side of the base with his foot). At home plate, umpires seem to tolerate a lot more from catchers which would be deemed obstruction by other fielders and they seem to tolerate a lot more from runners which would be deemed interference by runners at other bases.
Not to imply that any of us actually know the rules, of course, but it seems to me that if an infielder is putting his glove in between a base runner and a base, then he is, in point of fact, blocking that base
Here's the definition of obstruction:
and there is not much difference between kicking the ball out of the glove with a feet first slide and knocking the ball out of the glove with a hands-first dive. It seems to me that this call hinges on the umpire inferring intent, and it's a lot easier to infer intent when you see the base runner make a clear move for the fielder's glove with his hands.
In this case, the <a href="http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c>video</a> seems to show that
(a) Ramos did not securely have the ball when he tagged Hairston;
(b) Ramos was tangled up with Hairston behind home plate after Ramos lost possession of the ball;
(c) Hairston moved his right hand twice
(c) i. once it looks like he is trying to reach through Ramos to touch the plate,
(c) ii. the second time, while Hairston may have swiped at the ball, his hand seems never to have come within 6 inches of the ball. The ball was already rolling away from Ramos without Hairston's help.
With respect to the call and appeal:
If you watch the MASN feed, you first see a coach (Porter) in the dugout motioning with his right hand, referring to Hairston's act after the collision/tag. Then, when Johnson argues with the ump, he clearly gestured with his right hand twice as if pushing or grabbing or rolling a loose ball, and Hairston's right hand had nothing to do with the ball rolling away from the plate and missed the ball completely.
And my point is, there's nothing in the rulebook that allows for that.
I agree that more is allowed at home than what goes on at other bases (I also agree Johnson and the Nats bench was protesting the attempt to swat the ball by Hairston, rather than the attempt to strip). I simply disagree that there should be a difference in the way plays are called at home rather than the other bases.
And, my point isn't that that the Arod play should be made a legal maneuver. I simply think that there's nothing consistent with the Arod play resulting in an out, while the Hairston play is acceptable. Moreover, this inconsistency further cements my belief that MLB ought to outlaw all types of plays, at all bases, where the runner tries to dislodge a ball from a player's possession through hard contact. The home-plate collision is not only incongruous with the way the game is played in all other aspects, it results in inconsistent application of the rules from one base to the next.
That game led to some serious confusion for me the next season when I saw comments on here suggesting that Arencibia wasn't very good.
Being pleased about it (or at least taking it in good humor) would be distinctly non-douchey. Douchey would be complaining/upset about it.
That's right - it's an issue of (mis)interpretation and tradition, not unlike the "neighborhood play" at second base which evolved presumably as a way to protect second basemen from hard contact at a vulnerable moment when the written rules were inadequate to the situation.
I simply disagree that there should be a difference in the way plays are called at home rather than the other bases.
I assume you disagree with the umpires here, because I do not think I wrote that there should be a difference, just that one exists.
And, my point isn't that that the Arod play should be made a legal maneuver. I simply think that there's nothing consistent with the Arod play resulting in an out, while the Hairston play is acceptable.
Agreed, assuming you mean the likely strip with the left hand by Hairston, and not the ineffectual swat with the right.
Moreover, this inconsistency further cements my belief that MLB ought to outlaw all types of plays, at all bases, where the runner tries to dislodge a ball from a player's possession through hard contact. The home-plate collision is not only incongruous with the way the game is played in all other aspects, it results in inconsistent application of the rules from one base to the next.
The interference rule is quite vague on the tactic of a runner's dislodging a ball from a fielder's hand or glove, while the rules cover all types of other specific infractions by the runner. 7.08 includes:
7.09 includes:
The best reason IMO to outlaw the home plate collision is that someone could get seriously hurt for no good reason.
Yes. Not with you, but with the way the game is called.
Yes, those are the two plays that are analogous, not the swat (though if he made contact with the swat, that too should be deemed worthy of an out).
It's vagueness is kind of irrelevant (since I'm not afraid of rewriting the rulebook to eliminate any vagueness). Baseball clearly allows players to try to dislodge the baseball from the possession of fielders through hard contact, unless that hard contact is done with the hand/arm. That is illogical to me, and thus I think it should be written out of the game.
Agreed. But the distinction here provides an argument for consistency on top of the argument for player safety.
I think I'd be pretty amused if someone mooned me at the very instant I got my first hit. Life's too short not to be.
No doubt. I think this is particularly true since Harper is 19. Mooning is way funnier when you are 19 than it is when you are 29.
I don't know, but it was such a clear stand-up double that he was obviously thinking about third. Maybe his helmet is extra-heavy to protect his extra-big head, or maybe he just wanted to show off his cool pseudo-mullet.
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