Flags Fly Forever!

Old School pros like Tony inspire the most loyalty.

I'm as annoyed at anyone by Tony LaRussa, but why in the world would anyone listen to Jack Clark? Over the years, he has made Dave Kingman look like a beacon of wisdom and grace.

Who would listen to Jack Clark.

I mean, sure TLR kept players from the 80's away from the team, I mean Oquendo was a third base coach for almost his entire tenure, he asked Ozzie Smith to come back as a coach every year for close to a decade, offering to bury whatever perceived hatchet was between them(only in Ozzie Smith's self important head) McGee showed up several times over the years. Etc.

Yes Jack Clark wasn't invited, because of his comments about Mark McGwire....you have to be stupid (or a multi-millionaire who filed for bankruptcy while owning a dozen cars) to not know why Clark wasn't invited to hang out with the team.

I guess the players from the 80's took on the characteristics of their manager, and are self important ######## who think they are the center of the baseball universe, and that all subsequent teams that follow should bow down before them. (Hey snotheads----your Whitey Herzog led team is the only Cardinal team to finish in last place since 1918.... maybe the culture you created isn't really what we want to follow---I mean sure TLR players have done roids....while Whitey led players threw firecrackers at kids....hmm who is really more dangerous to kids?)

I mean sure TLR players have done roids....while Whitey led players threw firecrackers at kids....hmm who is really more dangerous to kids?)

So let me get this straight, we're actually supposed to blame Whitey Herzog for something Vince Coleman did as a Met, while playing for Dallas Green, long after Herzog had actually retired? And furthermore, this is somehow equivalent to the fact that LaRussa spent about 15 years (1986~2001) in charge of teams whose best players were steroid users, teams which, it can be plausibly be argued, owed most of their success to steroids?

I've seen a lot of clueless, even off-balance things said on this site (many of them from cardsfanboy, now that I think about it), but I'm not sure if I've ever seen anything quite so wacky as post #4.

in charge of teams whose best players were steroid users

Are you accusing Rickey! and Pujols of using steroids? And it was really unfair of TLR to let his players use roids when the rest of the league was so pure. Talk about an unfair advantage. I agree that blaming Herzog for Coleman's idiocy is a streeeeeeeetch. Come on, cfb! You're better than that! The funny thing about Clark is that when I was a wee lad, he was the one player my mom, who was just a casual fan of the sport, couldn't stand. She thought he was a whiner and, when he played for the Giants, he kind of was.

Come on, cfb! You're better than that!

No, he's not.

The Cardinals have called up a pitcher named Chuckie Fick.

That is all.

So let me get this straight, we're actually supposed to blame Whitey Herzog for something Vince Coleman did as a Met, while playing for Dallas Green, long after Herzog had actually retired? And furthermore, this is somehow equivalent to the fact that LaRussa spent about 15 years (1986~2001) in charge of teams whose best players were steroid users, teams which, it can be plausibly be argued, owed most of their success to steroids?

I've seen a lot of clueless, even off-balance things said on this site (many of them from cardsfanboy, now that I think about it), but I'm not sure if I've ever seen anything quite so wacky as post #4.

Well there is a lot more that is the cliff notes version.

You have to remember, Jack Clark is the guy who got in trouble for accusing Cardinal players for quitting on the team under TLR. Remember, Jack Clark worships Whitey Herzog, the guy who upped and quit on his team in the season, and who's '85 team outright quit on game seven of the world series.

Jack Clark is upset that more 80's players aren't involved with the Cardinal... Rick Horton is an announcer for Fox Sports midwest, Jose Oquendo was a coach for TLR, Willie McGee played for TLR(and had a standing invitation to show up or coach any time he wanted) TLR requested for a decade, that Ozzie Smith show up to spring training to be a guest coach, it was Ozzie that was turning it down. Andy Van Slyke made occassional appearances during TLR's reign. How many guys from the 80's is the team supposed to have hanging around?

Jack Clark has stumped to be invited to anything Cardinals related, and I'm thinking a guy who was fired for being a craptacular hitting coach, who filed bankruptcy when he was a player for a lavish lifestyle, who has multiple times insulted the team and management, just might not be the guy you want the kids being influenced by.

nd furthermore, this is somehow equivalent to the fact that LaRussa spent about 15 years (1986~2001) in charge of teams whose best players were steroid users, teams which, it can be plausibly be argued, owed most of their success to steroids?

I'm willing to bet that every single manager in baseball would be guilty of that. I mean Joe Torre spent years with Clemens, Giambi and Pettite, confirmed users, Girardi won a world series with Arod, the Red Sox have Papi and Manny to hang their championships on... There probably isn't a successful manager who hasn't had a roid user on their team, and I doubt that is going to change anytime soon.

Newsblog: Jack Clark Opens Mouth

i like me some whitey herzog as much as the next cards fan, but i'm always dismayed to see how much lack of respect TLR gets in comparison. if anybody had the track record to be considered a better manager, its tony.

as for jack clark, when he complains about the team not keeping around players from the 80s, he's just talking about himself, which seemed to be pretty much all he's ever been concerned with.