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Monday, December 21, 2009

The Hall of Very Good: Hall of Fame 2010: Pat Hentgen

Since news is slow and we haven’t heard from Jesus in like a really, really long time…

From now until the Baseball Hall of Fame Class of 2010 is announced, The Hall is going to be breaking down each candidate. Some write ups will be lengthy…some will be the opposite. Some will be brand new pieces…some will be re-hashes of previous pieces.

In 1996, Hentgen took home the American League Cy Young Award. This January, he’ll have celebrated his lone year on the Hall of Fame ballot.

So here’s the thing with Pat Hentgen…he was instrumental in helping lead the Blue Jays to the World Series in 1993 and he’s got more Cy Young Awards (one) and more All-Star Game appearances (three versus two) than Bert Blyleven. However, one will garner little to no attention on this year’s ballot.

The reason…one has become (for some reason) the darling of the writers and the other is named “Pat Hentgen”.

I wish I had more to say.

Repoz Posted: December 21, 2009 at 02:12 PM | 60 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: hall of fame, history

Reader Comments and Retorts

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Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Jean Claude Vander Wal (Pokey1228) Posted: December 21, 2009 at 02:31 PM (#3418500)
This is a joke, right?
   2. jacjacatk Posted: December 21, 2009 at 02:39 PM (#3418510)
Of course Pat Hentgen only had a one-Hentgen career. Bert lapped him once and then did another half-Hentgen.
   3. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: December 21, 2009 at 02:40 PM (#3418512)
The reason...one has become (for some reason) the darling of the writers and the other is named "Pat Hentgen".

Which is why Blyleven went into the Hall with nearly 100% of the vote.
   4. TomH Posted: December 21, 2009 at 02:41 PM (#3418514)
Maybe because one pitched really well for a long time, and the other pitched well on occasion? Maybe because Cy Young awards and all-star appearances, taken by themselves, are a rotten measure for who belongs in the HoF?
   5. RJ in TO Posted: December 21, 2009 at 02:44 PM (#3418517)
I'm a huge Pat Hengten fan, and even I'm assuming that this is some sort of joke.
   6. Mike Emeigh Posted: December 21, 2009 at 02:48 PM (#3418524)
   7. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 21, 2009 at 03:10 PM (#3418538)
Please stop, you're only encouraging Jesus and Repoz...
   8. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2009 at 03:15 PM (#3418540)
Please stop, you're only encouraging Jesus and Repoz...


Yes, for Repoz, Jesus is always the reason for the season.
   9. The Most Interesting Man In The World Posted: December 21, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3418541)
Read what he wrote about Blyleven.

From TFL:

I won’t even mention the fact that there were TWELVE American League pitchers with 20 or more victories in 1973.


I absolutely hate it when people do this. I mean, you did just mention it, did you not?

but Rik Aalbert Blyleven pitched longer than Christ walked the Earth.

Too bad Jason Christianson doesn't have a borderline HOF case.
   10. GGC for Sale Posted: December 21, 2009 at 03:31 PM (#3418548)
Yes, for Repoz, Jesus is always the reason for the season.


Yes, but it is possible to title a blog post "Jack Morris For The HOF" and not get him to byte.
   11. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 21, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3418561)
Here's something that needs a link: The Book blog's discussion of the decade's best defenders. Interesting stuff...
   12. Eric J can SABER all he wants to Posted: December 21, 2009 at 03:57 PM (#3418563)
Read what he wrote about Blyleven.

Awesome. He's arguing against him, and still manages to attempt a ridiculously incorrect point in his favor:

Blyleven’s career total resides at 287. And say what you want, had there not been a strike in 1981 or had he not been hurt in 1982, Blyleven might have gotten to 300.


I'm slightly skeptical that Blyleven would have won 13 games in the missing third of the '81 season, but maybe it's just me.
   13. Ray (RDP) Posted: December 21, 2009 at 04:09 PM (#3418571)
Hentgen had a nice career. A good pitcher who had a couple of top years. Leading the planet in innings, complete games, and batters faced two years running may have broken him.
   14. Jose is El Absurd Bronson Y Pollo Posted: December 21, 2009 at 04:14 PM (#3418573)
I understand Pat Hentgen has a book about ZIP Codes coming out soon. We should discuss that.
   15. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2009 at 04:24 PM (#3418582)
It's kind of a shame he had to drop that Blyleven comparison in.
I was looking forward to a nice trip down nostalgia lane.
   16. GGC for Sale Posted: December 21, 2009 at 04:27 PM (#3418592)
Here's something that needs a link: The Book blog's discussion of the decade's best defenders. Interesting stuff...


Nah, that's not BTF-worthy. Even though it's mgl, it's not something that will infuriate people (like some of his stuff does, for whatever reason.)
   17. Steve Parris, Je t'aime Posted: December 21, 2009 at 04:56 PM (#3418618)
From the writer's Alomar blurb:
Even, Alomar’s OPS+ (a stat that I am not that high on, but some people are) of 116 is smack dab in the middle of the pack when you look at those already enshrined. For the record, Sandberg’s was 114. Joe Morgan...a surprising 132.

Earlier he argues that Alomar might be ahead of Morgan as the best post-war 2B.
   18. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2009 at 05:01 PM (#3418623)
Even though it's mgl, it's not something that will infuriate people (like some of his stuff does, for whatever reason.)


I don't think it's his stuff that infuriates people, but his general mglness. I'm not in that camp, however, even if I do think his "I'll bet you a million dollars" fallback argument was monumentally silly.
   19. RJ in TO Posted: December 21, 2009 at 05:01 PM (#3418624)
Here's something that needs a link: The Book blog's discussion of the decade's best defenders. Interesting stuff...

Nah, that's not BTF-worthy. Even though it's mgl, it's not something that will infuriate people (like some of his stuff does, for whatever reason.)


You know, there's this super-awesome "submit" feature on the front page....
   20. Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant Posted: December 21, 2009 at 05:11 PM (#3418631)
Alomar even slugged .347 in back to back World Series victories for the Blue Jays


That's, um, not very good.
   21. GuyMcGuffin Posted: December 21, 2009 at 05:13 PM (#3418633)
He doesn't vote for Blyleven, who he calls a compiler, that was never dominant in the league and played forever...and then he votes for Harold Baines?

He doesn't vote for Blyleven, who is one of 5 members of the 280 W/3700 K club...and then he votes for Dawson because he's one of 16 in the 2700/400 club?

The logic is hurting my brain.
   22. Jeff K. Posted: December 21, 2009 at 05:48 PM (#3418656)
Do they have ZIP codes in Canada? I can't see how they would help, as none of the sled dogs, penguin drivers, or polar bear postmasters can read.
   23. WillYoung Posted: December 21, 2009 at 05:55 PM (#3418661)
What's funny is that whenever I remember Hentgen as a player, it is remembering watching him pitch against the Twins. The first thing that pops into my mind is the way Bert Blyleven absolutely slobbered over Hentgen's willingness to complete his starts. Blyleven LOVED Hentgen.
   24. RJ in TO Posted: December 21, 2009 at 05:59 PM (#3418666)
Do they have ZIP codes in Canada?

Postal codes, rather than ZIP codes.

I can't see how they would help, as none of the sled dogs, penguin drivers, or polar bear postmasters can read.

You'd be surprised just how intelligent our native wildlife can be. Those polar bears really know their stuff.
   25. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 21, 2009 at 06:06 PM (#3418676)
My last few submissions haven't made it - not sure why. Anyway, I was kinda hoping to hijack this one anyway.
   26. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2009 at 06:22 PM (#3418701)
Postal codes, rather than ZIP codes.

I've always wondered, what does ZIP mean and/or stand for?
It annoys me to no end online when I need to enter my ZIP code to register for something it refuses to accept letters. I usually end up just mashing integers until it tells me it's good.
   27. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2009 at 06:26 PM (#3418707)
I've always wondered, what does ZIP mean and/or stand for?


Zone Improvement Plan. Not sure why.

This thread has the possibilty of turning into Flypaper.
   28. Walt Davis Posted: December 21, 2009 at 06:35 PM (#3418716)
No real surprises in MGL's list. The closest for me were Neifi Perez as #5 SS and I didn't realize UZR loved Andruw Jones THAT much (+20 runs per 150!).

It still surprises me that actual competent, competitive teams let Mark Grudzielanek toil for the Royals.
   29. GGC for Sale Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:03 PM (#3418749)
Zone Improvement Plan. Not sure why.


They wanted mail to go to the right Springfields and Portlands. Around the same time they assigned states those two letter abbreviations. I'm sure the William Safires of the world were thrilled about that.
   30. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:08 PM (#3418754)
I wish I had more to say.
I'm glad he doesn't.

Hentgen had a decent year as a veteran anchor for the Orioles; 245 IP, 104 ERA+. Unfortunately, he spread it over three seasons.
   31. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:08 PM (#3418755)
Around the same time they assigned states those two letter abbreviations.


Zip Codes predated those awful abbreviations by quite a few years, if I'm not mistaken.
   32. GGC for Sale Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:12 PM (#3418759)
Whiskeypedia says the changes were concurrent with the intro of Zip Codes.
   33. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:16 PM (#3418768)
Whiskeypedia says the changes were concurrent with the intro of Zip Codes.


How about that? But widespread usage surely trailed well behind. It seemed sometime during my grade school days (I recall a teacher instructing us of the fact) when the post office was actually pushing the use of these two-letter abbreviations over the ones most of us were familiar with (Mo., Mich., Mass., etc.)
   34. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:29 PM (#3418784)
How old are you, SoSH U? Two-letter abbreviations forever!
   35. GGC for Sale Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:34 PM (#3418793)
He can still recite all 48 old abbreviations!
   36. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:40 PM (#3418799)
How old are you, SoSH U? Two-letter abbreviations forever!


42. I vividly recall an elementary school class where we encouraged, when sending letters, to replace the traditional abbreviations with those soulless postal ones. Maybe it was just a local thing.
   37. The District Attorney Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:41 PM (#3418802)
Zone Improvement Plan. Not sure why.
Because previously, each ZIP code didn't represent a distinct geographic area.

As we now know, that problem has been fixed.
   38. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: December 21, 2009 at 07:59 PM (#3418816)
Hentgen had a decent year as a veteran anchor for the Orioles; 245 IP, 104 ERA+. Unfortunately, he spread it over three seasons.
I'm pretty sure, but too lazy to check right now, that Hentgen retired after--I mean, like literally right after--a game when the Yankees just abused him. I always respected him for that.
   39. RJ in TO Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:05 PM (#3418823)
I'm pretty sure, but too lazy to check right now, that Hentgen retired after--I mean, like literally right after--a game when the Yankees just abused him.


You are correct. They just teed off on him.
   40. Maxwn Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:18 PM (#3418843)
Pat Hentgen's Wikipedia page is currently sporting an interesting note on his non-baseball related employment in his career section. I'm curious to see how long it stays up. I'm also curious as to what would inspire someone to vandalize Pat Hentgen's page.
   41. RJ in TO Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:21 PM (#3418846)
Pat Hentgen's Wikipedia page is currently sporting an interesting note on his non-baseball related employment in his career section. I'm curious to see how long it stays up.


Given that he only gets paid 10 cents an hour, Hentgen better hope it stays up for a long time.
   42. Der Komminsk-sar Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:27 PM (#3418856)
SoSH U - I thought we were roughly in the same demographic (and are), I'm 36.
***
Any response I have to Ryan will get me in trouble with somebody.
   43. Maxwn Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:28 PM (#3418857)
Given that he only gets paid 10 cents an hour, Hentgen better hope it stays up for a long time.

See, I'm not even sure he still has that job. The note is in the past tense, so he must not have been carried over into the new administration. Who knows what he's doing now?
   44. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:28 PM (#3418859)
You are correct. They just teed off on him.
Oddly, I remember that as a day game (it was the summer I didn't work, but before I had YES so I listened to a lot of day games) but I obviously got the important details right.
   45. SoSH U at work Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:42 PM (#3418887)
See, I'm not even sure he still has that job. The note is in the past tense, so he must not have been carried over into the new administration. Who knows what he's doing now?


I'm guessing he left the post voluntarily. Even the Obama administration is smart enough to know it's difficult to find a deal that good.
   46. Greg K Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:43 PM (#3418888)
You are correct. They just teed off on him.

I read this is "They just peed on him"
Which I think could really catch on as euphamism for getting beat badly.
   47. GGC for Sale Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:48 PM (#3418893)
I read this is "They just peed on him"
Which I think could really catch on as euphamism for getting beat badly.


So Tosca came to the mound in the third and sent him to the golden showers?
   48. Covfefe Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:54 PM (#3418898)

They wanted mail to go to the right Springfields and Portlands. Around the same time they assigned states those two letter abbreviations. I'm sure the William Safires of the world were thrilled about that.


Wait... I think this makes me old because I can remember as a kid, being told we were no longer able to use "Rural Route numbers" - and had to use actual street addresses when mailing letters in our sleepy little burg.
   49. Maxwn Posted: December 21, 2009 at 08:55 PM (#3418900)
I'm guessing he left the post voluntarily. Even the Obama administration is smart enough to know it's difficult to find a deal that good.

Good point. Maybe Pat's hoping that his new HOF eligibility will raise his profile a little so he can charge a better rate. Although with the economy the way it is, the demand may not be there.
   50. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: December 21, 2009 at 09:12 PM (#3418927)
Good point. Maybe Pat's hoping that his new HOF eligibility will raise his profile a little so he can charge a better rate. Although with the economy the way it is, the demand may not be there.
I'm pretty sure if you paid him enough Pete Rose would be willing to provide that service. Probably while simultaneously apologizing for betting on baseball.
   51. hokieneer Posted: December 21, 2009 at 10:33 PM (#3419024)
You are correct. They just teed off on him.

Threw 67 pitches, gave up 8 runs, and had a game score of 8.

I think you can go get him now.
   52. RJ in TO Posted: December 21, 2009 at 10:36 PM (#3419028)
Threw 67 pitches, gave up 8 runs, and had a game score of 8.


On 7 hits, 4 walks, a HBP, no Ks, and only 8 outs. It was a slaughter.
   53. Dan Szymborski Posted: December 21, 2009 at 10:48 PM (#3419040)
I've always wondered, what does ZIP mean and/or stand for?

Szymborski Projection. I control the mail.
   54. Jeff K. Posted: December 22, 2009 at 12:37 AM (#3419109)
You control information?
   55. Random Transaction Generator Posted: December 22, 2009 at 12:44 AM (#3419117)
That's weird.
I can't see any sponsorship on Hentgen's page.
Was it removed? What did it say?
   56. Matthew E Posted: December 22, 2009 at 02:02 AM (#3419159)
Hentgen was my favourite player at one point. I'd be thrilled if he had some kind of Hall of Fame case. He doesn't. But he had a career that he can be proud of and I'm glad I got to watch it.
   57. RJ in TO Posted: December 22, 2009 at 03:07 AM (#3419188)
That's weird.
I can't see any sponsorship on Hentgen's page.
Was it removed? What did it say


It was on the wiki page, and not B-R. You can see the recently removed line here.
   58. Lassus Posted: December 22, 2009 at 03:29 AM (#3419199)
Wait... I think this makes me old because I can remember as a kid, being told we were no longer able to use "Rural Route numbers" - and had to use actual street addresses when mailing letters in our sleepy little burg.

I'm not 40 yet, and I remember writing letters to my grandmother with her "RR" address. As late as when I was applying to college, I had no number at all for my house, which caused NYU and some others no end of trouble in actually comprehending such a fact.


It was on the wiki page, and not B-R. You can see the recently removed line here.

Whoa. Let's hope that doesn't show up on any of the papers SteveM or Vaux will be checking for plagiarism.
   59. Jesus Melendez Posted: December 22, 2009 at 08:16 AM (#3419334)
Oh my...it's good to see that after two long years, you folks still peruse The Hall of Very Good. I mean I see where the traffic comes from and all (thank you), but man...I almost forgot how shallow the water was at this end of the pool.

So...let me answer some questions and respond to some comments.

"This is a joke, right?" I'm not sure what the joke is/was...but I would suspect the line "one will garner little to no attention on this year’s ballot" in regard to Pat Hentgen would mean that he is not a viable Hall of Fame candidate.

"Which is why Blyleven went into the Hall with nearly 100% of the vote." Yeah...this one confuses me. I'm not sure of the math that is being used, but given...wait, nevermind. This is just a stupid, stupid comment.

Maybe because one pitched really well for a long time, and the other pitched well on occasion? Maybe because Cy Young awards and all-star appearances, taken by themselves, are a rotten measure for who belongs in the HoF? Awards and All-Star appearances might be a rotten measure, but unfortunately, they do get looked at when people measure the success of a player. One 20 win season (and a 20-17 one at that) isn't any more of an indicator of worth, however.

I absolutely hate it when people do this. I mean, you did just mention it, did you not? Yup...I did bring up Blyleven's 1973 season. The fact of the matter is this...to everyone who brings up Blyleven's lack of run support or the quality of teams he played on, I'll bring up Steve Carlton. Carlton won games and won Cy Young Awards by (A) not being a compiler and (B) in spite of playing for some terrible, terrible teams. It CAN be done, gang...Blyleven just couldn't do it.

"I'm slightly skeptical that Blyleven would have won 13 games in the missing third of the '81 season, but maybe it's just me." As am I...and that is precisely why I also mentioned the 1982 season where he missed all but FOUR of his starts. Nice try, Eric J.

"It's kind of a shame he had to drop that Blyleven comparison in. I was looking forward to a nice trip down nostalgia lane." Sorry. Anyone who knows me, knows I have a hard time with the sudden support Blyleven has been getting. Hence...the reference.

"Earlier he argues that Alomar might be ahead of Morgan as the best post-war 2B." Tell me he isn't. And the minute you mention OPS+...you lose.

Yawn. It's late...thanks for the support.

The Hall of Very Good
   60. Shock Posted: December 22, 2009 at 08:27 AM (#3419335)

but Rik Aalbert Blyleven pitched longer than Christ walked the Earth.


Well at least that is true.

Hentgen's 2004 was painful to watch ... Probably the most obvious a pitcher was "done" that I've seen. Threw 84MPH with no movement and no control. It was sad. That whole season sucked so many christmas balls.

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