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Friday, August 26, 2011

The Hurricane Irene Thread

There was the Swine Flu thread, so why not the Hurricane thread. Isn’t that right, New York Mets and the rest of the Northeast teams?

The New York Mets say they have postponed Saturday and Sunday’s games against the Atlanta Braves because of Hurricane Irene.

Both games will be rescheduled as a single-admission doubleheader on Sept. 8 beginning at 4:10 p.m.

Major League Baseball already had moved Sunday’s games at Philadelphia and Boston to Saturday to make them part of day-night doubleheaders. The Phillies play the Marlins and the Red Sox play the Athletics.


So to the primates on the Eastern coastal regions- stay safe.

Gamingboy Posted: August 26, 2011 at 08:49 PM | 912 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
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   301. Johnny Sycophant-Laden Fora Posted: August 28, 2011 at 06:49 PM (#3910956)
No power here in LI went for a nice long walk a lot more property damage than I was expecting those saying that its just another storm business as usual are either ignorant or just being asses
   302. Mike Emeigh Posted: August 28, 2011 at 07:15 PM (#3910961)
NC damage:

Highway 12 was reportedly breached near Rodanthe, on the Outer Banks south of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore, cutting Hattaras and Ocracoke Islands off entirely from the mainland. Highway 12 is also shut down north of Duck. State hopes to have emergency ferry service in place by Monday.

-- MWE
   303. Jay Z Posted: August 28, 2011 at 07:37 PM (#3910966)
1) Official Government warnings, which sound like they were well-advised and helped prevent some damage to the city, as well as giving people a heads up.

2) Network coverage, which (shockingly) sensationalized the story


Damn private sector.
   304. Jay Z Posted: August 28, 2011 at 07:39 PM (#3910969)
As far as excess precautions go, don't most of us do that now? We wear seatbelts, go in the basement when there's a storm warning, and most of the time it doesn't matter. But since we don't know when it will matter, it's a good idea because we're trading a small thing (inconvenience, and a bit of time I suppose) for a chance of a gigantic thing happening (death.)
   305. puck Posted: August 28, 2011 at 07:54 PM (#3910975)
Complicating issue here: when you're trying to get a message across, nuance works against you. You've really got about one, two lines to work with hey wait you're not reading this any longer, are you?
   306.     Hey Gurl Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:09 PM (#3910982)
So what happened? Was Ray wrong, and everyone is taunting him, or was he right and everyone is calling him an #######?
   307. beer on a stick Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:14 PM (#3910985)
Probably already been covered here, but we coulda been almost done with game one and on the way to game two here in philly. Its not exactly 85 and sunny, but the wind is very manageable abd it hasn't rained in South Philly in a few hours now. Someone messed up the forecast.

Irene was a dud here. Hell, I'm in town with my motor home and I just parked it under the 95 overpass, had a couple beers and went to sleep. Never once did the storm wake me up. I wasnt the only one either. Looked like an impromptu KOA under there.
   308. bigglou115 Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:23 PM (#3910990)
All this makes me wonder how many New Yorkers would stay in New York if they had Arkansas' weather. 100+ in July, ice storms that kill dozens in January, and the highest concentration of deadly tornados per square mile in the world.

Personally I'd move away from New York after a single winter.

Of course, I've seen people using snow chains without snow on the ground here too, so...

Just goes to show that God hates us all no matter where we live.
   309. Swedish Chef Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:27 PM (#3910993)
All this makes me wonder how many New Yorkers would stay in New York if they had Arkansas' weather. 100+ in July, ice storms that kill dozens in January, and the highest concentration of deadly tornados per square mile in the world.

That description make Arkansans seem rather stupid for staying in Arkansas.
   310. bigglou115 Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:37 PM (#3910997)
All this makes me wonder how many New Yorkers would stay in New York if they had Arkansas' weather. 100+ in July, ice storms that kill dozens in January, and the highest concentration of deadly tornados per square mile in the world.

That description make Arkansans seem rather stupid for staying in Arkansas.


At times I wouldn't argue with that, but we have four seasons. Some places are all just variations of summer ot winter. It's nice here 90% of the year, but the transplants have a tendency to hysteria because of the kinds of bad weather we get even if it's not really any more dangerous here than anywhere else.
   311. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:41 PM (#3910999)
That description make Arkansans seem rather stupid for staying in Arkansas.

I often wonder why there aren't 250 million people living in Monterey, CA.
   312. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:45 PM (#3911001)
Personally I'd move away from New York after a single winter.

You make it sound like we have North Dakota weather.

The winter avg. temp. is in the mid-30's. In a normal year we get 2, maybe 3 real snow storms.

The summers are worse than the winters.
   313. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:47 PM (#3911002)
I often wonder why there aren't 250 million people living in Monterey, CA.

Most people actually like seasons.
   314. Karl from NY Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:50 PM (#3911003)
So what happened? Was Ray wrong, and everyone is taunting him, or was he right and everyone is calling him an #######?


Some of both, with a selection bias. The people for whom Ray was wrong can't be here on an internet forum to slam him.
   315. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:52 PM (#3911005)
Except for the people who got killed the storm wasn't a big deal.
   316. bigglou115 Posted: August 28, 2011 at 08:54 PM (#3911006)
Personally I'd move away from New York after a single winter.

You make it sound like we have North Dakota weather.

The winter avg. temp. is in the mid-30's. In a normal year we get 2, maybe 3 real snow storms.

The summers are worse than the winters.


I went to college at the University of Arkansas up in the Ozarks, your basically describing their winters (except were you have 3 snowstorms we have 2 and an ice storm) and it was too cold for me. I don't mind it getting that cold for December and January (which it does here), but 3 or 4+ months at those temperatures kills me.
   317. DKDC Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:01 PM (#3911007)
Except for the people who got killed the storm wasn't a big deal.


Other than that, how was the play, Ms. Lincoln?
   318. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:03 PM (#3911008)
I went to college at the University of Arkansas up in the Ozarks, your basically describing their winters (except were you have 3 snowstorms we have 2 and an ice storm) and it was too cold for me. I don't mind it getting that cold for December and January (which it does here), but 3 or 4+ months at those temperatures kills me.

It's really only 2 months here too. Avg. daily highs are in the high 30's for Jan/Feb, but well into the 40's for Dec. and Mar.

Real "winter" is usually Christmas until the 1st week of March.
   319. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:16 PM (#3911009)
We wound up losing power in Kensington around 3:30 in the morning but it got restored at 1:30 this afternoon. Unfortunately a big tree got partially uprooted in the bargain, and is now leaning at a steep angle and aimed straight at my neighbor's roof. And since it's in a tight spot and will need a crane, etc., it's going to cost us several K's to get it safely removed. Thank God it didn't snap completely while the couple next door was asleep. The irony is that the neighbor on the other side of us had just pruned several big branches off one of her trees that might very well have crashed on us. So I guess you win some and you lose some, but nature can be a bitch.
   320. puck Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:17 PM (#3911010)
Don't parts of the midwest have the worst weather? Freezing cold winters and oppressively hot/humid summers?
   321. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:19 PM (#3911012)
So what happened? Was Ray wrong, and everyone is taunting him, or was he right and everyone is calling him an #######?


I was right, of course. Bloomberg over-prepared the city, but I get that he has to do that, to an extent. (He doesn't have to over-over-prepare the city, but whatever.) I reserve most of my mockery for those living in apartment buildings in obviously flood-safe areas of the city, who nevertheless felt the need to raid the stores for flashlights and batteries and excess food items. These people needed not one extra item of food as it turned out, and yet got so worked up over things that they engaged in this silliness anyway. And barracaded themselves in their apartments all day yesterday.

(My comments have always been limited to the city; I get that people living in houses or in flood-risk zones or in areas where the storm was expected to hit harder, such as further south, have to be sure they take necessary precautions.)

The media obviously overhyped the story, as is their m.o.

Bloomberg succeeded in getting people so worked up that the streets were bare yesterday (but for tourists, comically), and a lot of businesses lost a lot of money.
   322. McCoy Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:22 PM (#3911013)
I reserve most of my mockery for those living in apartment buildings in obviously flood-safe areas of the city, who nevertheless felt the need to raid the stores for flashlights and batteries and excess food items. These people needed not one extra item of food as it turned out, and yet got so worked up over things that they engaged in this silliness anyway. And barracaded themselves in their apartments all day yesterday.

Apparently they should have gone to a football game instead. It would have been a lot safer.

Newport News authorities report that 11-year-old Zahir Robinson was killed when a large tree crashed through his apartment shortly after noon. He was pronounced dead at the scene. The boy's mother, who was in the apartment, was not injured


The deaths were something like 16 tree related, 2 stupid surfers, 2 caused by downed wires, and two by flooding.
   323. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:23 PM (#3911014)
There it is. "Businesses lost a lot of money". Better that they "under-prepare" for the storm, just in case it fizzles, and have people harmed because of it, than "over-prepare", and businesses lose money. Bravo! Corporations are people, too! I get it.
   324. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:34 PM (#3911019)
Maybe it's because I tune out the long flame-war threads, but I don't get the witch-hunting against Ray.
   325. CrosbyBird Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:35 PM (#3911020)
And barracaded themselves in their apartments all day yesterday.

Do people usually hang out in the streets when there's a heavy storm with powerful wind?
   326. ray james Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:36 PM (#3911023)
I reserve most of my mockery for those living in apartment buildings in obviously flood-safe areas of the city, who nevertheless felt the need to raid the stores for flashlights and batteries and excess food items. These people needed not one extra item of food as it turned out, and yet got so worked up over things that they engaged in this silliness anyway.


Ray, I guess I must be dumb or something but how is taking an extra 15 minutes to pick up some batteries and food on the way home "raiding the stores" and "getting worked up"?

I mean, if anyone is being silly, it's you by "getting worked up" over the way other people chose to handle a potential risk of flooding and loss of service from the national grid. If you want to take a laissez faire approach, fine. But why must you insist everyone else share your philosophy, Mr. Libertarian?
   327. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:37 PM (#3911024)


Do people usually hang out in the streets when there's a heavy storm with powerful wind?


New Yorkers do. They are a tough breed and laugh in the face of mother nature. Plus you can get New Caldonean take out at 4 am.
   328. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:37 PM (#3911025)
Don't parts of the midwest have the worst weather? Freezing cold winters and oppressively hot/humid summers?

I asked this question a day or two ago, but is there a single part of the U.S. that isn't vulnerable to one type of natural disaster or another? (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, severe floods or dust bowls) I wonder what's the longest that any area in the U.S. has ever gone without suffering at least one of those.
   329. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:40 PM (#3911027)
I mean, if anyone is being silly, it's you by "getting worked up" over the way other people chose to handle a potential risk of flooding and loss of service from the national grid. If you want to take a laissez faire approach, fine. But why must you insist everyone else share your philosophy, Mr. Libertarian?

If you want to see Ray really get worked up, tell him that a millionaire should be "victimized" by having his taxes used to pay for someone else's health care.
   330. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:48 PM (#3911029)
Does Ray float or sink? That's what I want to know.

Speaking of witches, anyone heard from DMN? He lives in the path of the storm. I hope his family is safe. Him, not so much. But his family, yes. They endure enough without any grief from a natural disaster.
   331. Lassus Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:49 PM (#3911031)
The winter avg. temp. is in the mid-30's. In a normal year we get 2, maybe 3 real snow storms.

That's because you live in the weak, easy, hipster part of the state. Come try your luck in the snow belt. Between October and May, it's sunny for at least two weeks. Probably.
   332. ray james Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:50 PM (#3911032)
Typical disaster hazards, by region:

Northeast- blizzards, floods, hurricanes
Southeast- hurricanes, droughts, tornadoes, floods
Midwest- blizzards, tornadoes, floods, freeze snaps
Northwest- volcanoes, earthquakes
Southwest- droughts, earthquakes, landslides, floods
   333. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 09:55 PM (#3911034)
I'm with Ray. Let's face it: New York bought all the ridiculous, over-the-top media type and dramatically overreacted to something that turned out to be nothing all that special.

What's so funny is that this is the city that likes to think of itself as the meanest, toughest, baddest city in the world. Of course practically the entire country at some point along the way turned into a bunch of pussified, hysterical drama queens, and New York is no different.


Zzzzz. As someone who grew up on the Gulf Coast and faced the threat of multiple tropical events each year, I can attest that sometimes the storm fails to live up to the hype. Still, even with a cat. 1 or 2, the flooding can be deadly, particularly if landfall occurs during high tide and the storm takes an unexpected pause over a given area. And lengthy power outages suck, particularly in the heat of summer. Also, if you want to see "pussified, hysterical drama queens," I suggest visiting south Texas during snowfall.

Or just shut the #### up about that which you do not know.
   334. McCoy Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:04 PM (#3911037)
Northeast- blizzards, floods, hurricanes
Southeast- hurricanes, droughts, tornadoes, floods
Midwest- blizzards, tornadoes, floods, freeze snaps
Northwest- volcanoes, earthquakes
Southwest- droughts, earthquakes, landslides, floods


It really depends on where you are in the region.

About the only thing Chicago gets bothered by in terms of disasters is blizzards and the occasional flooding caused by humans and not by mother nature. Even the suburbs are relatively immune to most disasters. There have been a few tornadoes but I lived in the two towns in the Chicagoland area that had not seen and I believe still have not seen a tornado. Not to say it won't happen but for the most part the weather in the Chicagoland area is shvtty year round (except for 2 weeks in the spring and two weeks in the fall) but it just doesn't get to the biblical stage very often. Maybe once every 20 years or so.
   335. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:08 PM (#3911039)
I hope his family is safe. Him, not so much.
I laughed.

If memory serves DMN is in Maryland, decent chance he's without power.

who nevertheless felt the need to raid the stores for flashlights and batteries and excess food items. These people needed not one extra item of food as it turned out, and yet got so worked up over things that they engaged in this silliness anyway.
Yeah, the dolts...NOW what are they ever going to do with useless crap like food and batteries?
   336. McCoy Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:12 PM (#3911040)
Well, with all the milk, eggs, and bread people bought they can make french toast for a couple of days.
   337. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:12 PM (#3911041)
No kidding. And all that extra revenue those stores enjoyed. Come on, Ray.
   338. Repoz Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:13 PM (#3911042)
And barracaded themselves in their apartments all day yesterday.

I had a guy down the block from me who spent the whole day building a wooden slide from his second story window out into the back yard. He warned me of the upcoming disaster and how he needed a quicker exit out for him and his equally kookie family.

Makes for a good Slinky ramp now.
   339. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:16 PM (#3911045)
No way. Think of the splinters! Ouchie.

edit...I know, Slinkies don't get splinters.
   340. Kiko Sakata Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:16 PM (#3911046)
About the only thing Chicago gets bothered by in terms of disasters is blizzards and the occasional flooding caused by humans and not by mother nature. Even the suburbs are relatively immune to most disasters.


I was about to give the same answer. Compared to the Northeast, an average winter is worse in Chicago, but Chicago's very, very worst blizzards are rarer and milder than the Northeast's (the big blizzard we got this past winter was only like the 3rd time on record we got >20" of snow in one storm). The wider region is susceptible to tornadoes, but not in the city and nearby suburbs, at least not historically.

I think McCoy exaggerates how frequently our weather is shitty, but we do hit 90-100 frequently in the summer and drop below 0 a couple times every winter, but as far as major call-out-the-National-Guard-and-FEMA weather, it's pretty rare here.
   341. McCoy Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:23 PM (#3911049)
Cold, snow, windy-cold-snowy, rainy-cold, rainy, sunshine for two weeks, muggy, hot and muggy, hot-muggy-thunderstorms, hot and muggy, rainy, sunshine for two weeks, cold and rainy, cold-rainy-windy, cold.

That's a year in the Chicagoland area minus any references to skunks, mosquitoes and gnats.
   342. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:24 PM (#3911050)
We wound up losing power in Kensington around 3:30 in the morning but it got restored at 1:30 this afternoon. Unfortunately a big tree got partially uprooted in the bargain, and is now leaning at a steep angle and aimed straight at my neighbor's roof. And since it's in a tight spot and will need a crane, etc., it's going to cost us several K's to get it safely removed. Thank God it didn't snap completely while the couple next door was asleep. The irony is that the neighbor on the other side of us had just pruned several big branches off one of her trees that might very well have crashed on us. So I guess you win some and you lose some, but nature can be a #####.


I think your homeowners insurance will pick this up.....including removal cost
   343. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:25 PM (#3911052)
Give me February in Chicago over August in Mississippi or Texas. YMMV, of course.
   344. SteveM. Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:27 PM (#3911053)
Here in Wilmington, DE, the wind blew hard and it rained a lot. No loss of power and the only real danger is the rising rivers around here. This was a pretty boring hurricane-I went to grad school at Alabama and went through Ivan and Katerina, and in the latter, I did feel the danger. This was one was downright dull.
   345. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:35 PM (#3911057)
I was about 80F and sunny all day here. I napped.
   346. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:36 PM (#3911059)
I asked this question a day or two ago, but is there a single part of the U.S. that isn't vulnerable to one type of natural disaster or another? (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, severe floods or dust bowls) I wonder what's the longest that any area in the U.S. has ever gone without suffering at least one of those.


From growing up in Arkansas (tornadoes seemingly around every corner at certain times of year, as bigglou115 notes) & living in the New Orleans area (hurricanes, of course) & now in the middle of Alabama (tornadoes & the outer edges of hurricanes ... the Gulf Coast is about 3 hours away, but still, seven Septembers ago Ivan blew up far enough to leave my house without power for most of a week), the one time in my life I've had a sense of being utterly free of the capriciousness of weather was the 2 1/2 years I went to school in the Phoenix area.

Arizona is hot & dry, of course, but that's just the climate, period. Every now & then a bit of dust would blow up. Big deal.
   347. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:41 PM (#3911062)
All this makes me wonder how many New Yorkers would stay in New York if they had Arkansas' weather. 100+ in July, ice storms that kill dozens in January, and the highest concentration of deadly tornados per square mile in the world.


I grew up in extreme southwest Arkansas (about 40 miles from Texas & 20 from Louisiana), & I recall only a couple of instances of debilitating winter weather. I still pay attention to conditions there because my sister is in a nursing home in our hometown, & damn if they don't seem to get waylaid by ice at least every couple of winters, far beyond anything I can recall from living there through my mid-20s.

Never lived farther north than North Little Rock. A couple of smallish snowfalls a year (around 3 inches, maybe) seemed to be the norm while I was there, except for the winter of '88 when we got something like 12.5. Jesus.
   348. Hysterical & Useless Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:43 PM (#3911063)
Bit more wind damage up here than I expected; quite a few trees and large branches down & several roads closed. Probably have to take the main roads to work tomorrow. Much windier now than earlier today, which disagrees with the forecast.

Sounds like something just hit my roof.
   349. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 10:48 PM (#3911066)
Maybe it's Santa!

My M.I.L. has no power, no phone. Trees and wires down.
   350. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:00 PM (#3911076)
Maybe it's Santa!


Or Ray!
   351. Howie Menckel Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:06 PM (#3911083)
Nate Silver on Twitter. media with typical anti-NY bias:

Hurricane Gustav in 2008 received at least as much coverage as Irene and Irene may wind up causing as much or more damage.

Isabel received as much mainstream media coverage as Irene. And Irene looks like it may wind up being more damaging.

Per my research, which I'll be writing up later, Irene received only the 13th most media coverage among Atlantic hurricanes since 1980.
   352. OCF Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM (#3911084)
Southwest- droughts, earthquakes, landslides, floods

You left out a big one: fire. And that is very much weather-related.

For Southern California, what is the most likely month for each of those?

Drought: not acute, which obscures the question. If it doesn't rain all summer, that's normal. So a drought would happen over the wet months of winter and then become manifest the following summer.

Earthquake: Random (even if many long-time Californians swear there's such a thing as "earthquake weather.")

Landslide (or mudflow): January. See "flood".

Flood: In the coastal regions, January. On the other side of the mountains, as localized flash floods, August.

Fire: October. See "Santa Ana winds."

And then a big fire greatly increases the risk of flood/mudflow/landslide for the next several years in the region below where it burned.

And more an annoyance than a disaster - snowstorm which makes it impossible to leave Southern California by car in some directions: January.

With the exception of earthquakes, which are everyone's problem, most of these risks primarily affect those who choose to live in picturesque locations at the outer fringes of the metropolitan areas.
   353. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:08 PM (#3911085)
That's because you live in the weak, easy, hipster part of the state. Come try your luck in the snow belt. Between October and May, it's sunny for at least two weeks. Probably.

No doubt. We have a big facility in Syracuse, and when you hear what their winter is like, you feel bad for ever complaining.

8-10 inches of snow is NOT considered a valid reason to stay home from work up there.
   354. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:12 PM (#3911089)
I think your homeowners insurance will pick this up.....including removal cost

Nope. Only damage to the house, and removing a tree from the house.

We had a big (100 ft+) tree hit our roof last March in a bad storm. All the house damage covered 100% w/o any trouble. The tree removal was split: they paid to get it off the roof, we paid to get it cut up and hauled away.

Talking to the adjuster (who's worked for many carriers) that's standard. You have homeowners insurance, not fallen tree removal insurance.
   355. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:22 PM (#3911093)
Yeah, we had some tree work done this summer, and I'm glad we did. We spent 1300 and probably saved a lot more had we not had it done.
   356. McCoy Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:23 PM (#3911094)
Sounds like the solution is to grab some rope and bring that tree down onto your house!
   357. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:27 PM (#3911097)
The deaths were something like 16 tree related, 2 stupid surfers, 2 caused by downed wires, and two by flooding.


Oh, did we lose a couple of those surfers?
   358. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:33 PM (#3911099)
I'm sure they'll be found, eventually.

They showed people swimming on TV, in Martha's Vineyard, and in Falmouth. In the ocean. Just a couple of people, in each place.
   359. McCoy Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:38 PM (#3911101)
Actually it looks like one surfer and one swimmer down in Florida instead of 2 surfers.

In Volusia County, 55-year-old Frederick Fernandez died Saturday off New Smyrna Beach after he was tossed off his board by massive waves caused by Irene. The Orlando Sentinel reports the high school teacher had a large cut on his head, apparently from hitting the sea floor. He was pronounced dead shortly after being pulled from the water.

In Flagler County, 55-year-old tourist James Palmer of New Jersey died Saturday in rough surf. Family members say they lost sight of him after he waded into the surf in North Florida. He was pulled to shore and his wife attempted CPR, but he was pronounced dead at the hospital.



I also want to hear how this happened:
A woman who had called police early Sunday for help getting out of her flooded car in Salem County was found dead in the vehicle hours later.

   360. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:43 PM (#3911106)
And barracaded themselves in their apartments all day yesterday.

Do people usually hang out in the streets when there's a heavy storm with powerful wind?


1. Yes. (They don't "hang out" but they go out.)

2. It wasn't "a heavy storm with powerful wind" yesterday. There were some flashes of rain, but there were mostly periods of no rain.

People were inside, because they overreacted.
   361. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:46 PM (#3911108)
Should the MTA not have shut down public transportation?
   362. ray james Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3911114)
People were inside, because they overreacted.


I mostly stayed inside, not because I overreacted but because I didn't feel like getting drenched walking from my front door to the car.
   363. Joe Bivens, Minor Genius Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:55 PM (#3911115)
Ray, were you saying any of this before the storm made it north?
   364. aleskel Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:56 PM (#3911116)
I asked this question a day or two ago, but is there a single part of the U.S. that isn't vulnerable to one type of natural disaster or another? (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, mudslides, forest fires, severe floods or dust bowls) I wonder what's the longest that any area in the U.S. has ever gone without suffering at least one of those.

All things considered, I think the northeast is right up there as far as being natural-disaster free. None of the disasters you mentioned are extremely rare, and the only "regular" weather disaster (as in, you can expect it at least once a year) is a big snowstorm. I only remember there being a drought once in my 25-odd years of living here, for example, and then the only reason anyone noticed is that restaurants wouldn't give you water unless you asked for it.
   365. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:56 PM (#3911117)
By the way, I took a walk around the upper west side at around 5pm. 95% of businesses were closed, including Starbucks and the movie theaters. People walking around on a beautiful sunny day with nowhere really to go. Kind of surreal. Some restaurants smart enough to open. Basically, though, Bloomberg got the entire city worked up, and caused it to shut down. It was fine for him to take precautions, but he really worked people up into a frenzy with his comments. ("This is not the time to play around." "We have warned people; if you didn't heed our warnings, it's too late to leave now; stay where you are; it's time for Mother Nature to take over.")

---------
EDIT: Here's his actual quote (the second one):

"You should have left earlier, but if you didn't, our advice would be -- and you do it at your own risk... stay where you are," Bloomberg said from emergency headquarters. The storm will continue to worsen through the night, with officials keeping their eyes on 8 a.m. tomorrow, the next high tide. "We have warned the public and now we have to deal with what comes from Mother Nature," he said. "Your own safety depends on what you do."
   366. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:03 AM (#3911120)
If memory serves DMN is in Maryland, decent chance he's without power.
I think he's actually somewhere in suburban NJ--I'm pretty sure he works in NYC, so I doubt he's commuting from Maryland--so hopefully he's without power but otherwise fine.
   367. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:03 AM (#3911121)
When I was 14, we had to prepare and evacuate twice for Hurricane Elena. Here's why. I've never seen such a storm path before or since.
   368. JE (Jason) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:03 AM (#3911122)
What natural catastrophes do residents of Santa Fe face? (I know there were fires near Los Alamos recently, but when was the last time there were flames that threatened the city?)
   369. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:04 AM (#3911123)
What natural catastrophes do residents of Santa Fe face?


Renegade tumbleweeds.
   370. aleskel Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:04 AM (#3911124)
95% of businesses were closed, including Starbucks and the movie theaters.

I'm going to venture a guess that those businesses employ people who live in other parts of the city and couldn't get to work. Unless you think they should not have shut down public transit at all, there's really nothing to be done.
   371. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:08 AM (#3911126)
#370, entire restaurants were open and fully staffed. Chefs and everything.
   372. AJMcCringleberry Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:22 AM (#3911131)
When I was 14, we had to prepare and evacuate twice for Hurricane Elena. Here's why. I've never seen such a storm path before or since.

This was an interesting path.

The eye basically passed right over my house, about a month after another hurricane had done the same.
   373. Shooty Survived the Shutdown of '14! Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:33 AM (#3911134)
I stayed inside, but I have a girlfriend! Winky, winky!
   374. A Fatty Cow That Need Two Seats Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:43 AM (#3911140)
I walked around the Upper West Side (well, 80s and 90s, at least) between 1:00 and 3:00 this afternoon and roughly half of the businesses were open. We had dinner at a restaurant last night that was open until at least 7:00 pm. As I was getting at in 361 and what 370 addresses directly, once public transportation is shut down, certain businesses (not all, clearly) were going to be closed.

Should the subways have remained open?
   375.     Hey Gurl Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:46 AM (#3911141)

Maybe it's because I tune out the long flame-war threads, but I don't get the witch-hunting against Ray.


Yeah, it's a little sad really. There seems to be a dedicated group of posters who follow him around and spout puerile partisan whining for no particular reason.
   376. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:48 AM (#3911143)
If memory serves DMN is in Maryland, decent chance he's without power.

I think he's actually somewhere in suburban NJ--I'm pretty sure he works in NYC, so I doubt he's commuting from Maryland--so hopefully he's without power but otherwise fine.


He lost power.
   377. CrosbyBird Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:52 AM (#3911144)
2. It wasn't "a heavy storm with powerful wind" yesterday. There were some flashes of rain, but there were mostly periods of no rain.

Clearly you were not walking my dog last night. It was pretty heavy rain and wind strong enough to destroy umbrellas.

EDIT: Not dangerous weather, but certainly the kind that keeps people in their homes if they don't need to go out.
   378. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:54 AM (#3911145)
What natural catastrophes do residents of Santa Fe face?

Hantavirus?

This was an interesting path.

Yeah, that is a good one.
   379. Dale Sams Posted: August 29, 2011 at 12:55 AM (#3911146)
S'funny, given the tone of the convo...in Tulsa in Feb., weather authorities warned of an impending blizzard and everyone was all "ohhh..no, the Snowpocalypse is coming!"...worst blizzard in Okla. history.

Schools out for two weeks. This two years after "The worst ice storms in a decade!". Power out for two+ weeks. Fun times.
   380. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:00 AM (#3911147)
Clearly you were not walking my dog last night.


No, but I did get in my elevator with a guy walking his dog, and the dog shook his water-logged fur all over the freaking place. It's kind of rude that dog owners allow that to happen, but it's to be expected of them.

It was pretty heavy rain and wind strong enough to destroy umbrellas.


As with most heavy rain/wind storms. Nothing unusual there.

And during the day it was mostly fine.
   381. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:04 AM (#3911148)
When I was 14, we had to prepare and evacuate twice for Hurricane Elena


When I was a kid in Lincoln, Nebraska, I watched the news coverage of Hurricane Elena. The weather people tracked the storm inland a ways, by the time it went into the interior of Texas it lost power and dropped off national coverage.

About two days after the last mention of Elena, I was outside playing, and a strange cloud passed over. It was doughnut-shaped. It rained for a few minutes, then stopped as the hole passed over, then rained for a couple of minutes again. I've never seen a cloud like that since.

I have often wondered if that was the remnant of Hurricane Elena. Watched the news that night but nobody mentioned it.
   382. RB in NYC (Now Semi-Retired from BBTF) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:05 AM (#3911149)
Should the subways have remained open?
Nope
   383. JE (Jason) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:05 AM (#3911150)
Ben Kabak of Second Avenue Sagas just Tweeted that subway service will resume tomorrow at 6am.
   384. JE (Jason) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:06 AM (#3911151)
   385. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:10 AM (#3911152)
It's kind of rude that dog owners allow that to happen, but it's to be expected of them.

To be fair, this only happens to you.
   386. CrosbyBird Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:19 AM (#3911154)
No, but I did get in my elevator with a guy walking his dog, and the dog shook his water-logged fur all over the freaking place. It's kind of rude that dog owners allow that to happen, but it's to be expected of them.

I wait for an empty elevator when my dog is wet. Maybe people that live in your building are just inconsiderate people that happen to own pets?

As with most heavy rain/wind storms. Nothing unusual there.

Correct. And there's nothing unusual about people staying in when there's a heavy rain or wind storm, especially if the MTA is shut down, and I think you'd have to be crazy to suggest that shutting down the subway was a mistake.

I agree that Bloomberg prepared for the worst-case scenario and we got pretty much the best-case scenario, but that best-case scenario still has a bunch of flooded subway lines. It didn't need to be much worse to be a problem in Battery Park.

And during the day it was mostly fine.

I certainly wouldn't call it nice weather. We had intermittent periods where it wasn't raining at all, but we also had intermittent periods of pretty heavy rain during the day.

Again, just reasons for people to stay in. That's hardly hiding from monsters under the bed.
   387. aleskel Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:20 AM (#3911155)
Ben Kabak of Second Avenue Sagas just Tweeted that subway service will resume tomorrow at 6am.

Well that's good news. The commute is going to be a mess, but we should be thankful it's going to be fairly cool tomorrow; a long wait on the platform in 90 degree heat is the last thing any of us need.
   388. base ball chick Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:22 AM (#3911156)
glad youse guys all come out OK and still have the electric. there are tons of people who are flooded out and have no power.

i know the media megahypes any sort of weather anything - and trouble is that things almost never turn out as bad as they say so people disrespect what hurricanes and floods can actually do even if there is not real too much wind.

it isn't stupid to be prepared for shtt happening - you should have plenty of extra batteries/flashlight/battery power fans, bottled water and stuff to eat don't need to be cooked or refrigerated

just because the media wants face don't mean that they are making the whole thing up
   389. Greg K Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:22 AM (#3911157)
These people needed not one extra item of food as it turned out

Well they'll need it at some point. Unless they bought meals which are only edible during hurricanes.
   390. SteveM. Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:25 AM (#3911159)
What natural catastrophes do residents of Santa Fe face? (I know there were fires near Los Alamos recently, but when was the last time there were flames that threatened the city?)


Californians moving in.
   391. aleskel Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:28 AM (#3911163)
Well they'll need it at some point. Unless they bought meals which are only edible during hurricanes.

Yeah, and I've never heard anyone say "sh*t, I have too many damn AA batteries!"
   392. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:29 AM (#3911164)
We wound up losing power in Kensington around 3:30 in the morning but it got restored at 1:30 this afternoon. Unfortunately a big tree got partially uprooted in the bargain, and is now leaning at a steep angle and aimed straight at my neighbor's roof. And since it's in a tight spot and will need a crane, etc., it's going to cost us several K's to get it safely removed. Thank God it didn't snap completely while the couple next door was asleep. The irony is that the neighbor on the other side of us had just pruned several big branches off one of her trees that might very well have crashed on us. So I guess you win some and you lose some, but nature can be a #####.

I think your homeowners insurance will pick this up.....including removal cost


Nope. Only damage to the house, and removing a tree from the house.

We had a big (100 ft+) tree hit our roof last March in a bad storm. All the house damage covered 100% w/o any trouble. The tree removal was split: they paid to get it off the roof, we paid to get it cut up and hauled away.

Talking to the adjuster (who's worked for many carriers) that's standard. You have homeowners insurance, not fallen tree removal insurance.


I'm going to talk to the insurance company just to make sure, but I'm pretty sure that snapper's right. We had a tree fall on the roof in July 2010, and the insurance covered (a) removing everything off the roof, (b) repairing the roof, and (c) removing everything in the vicinity of the roof. But it didn't cover the 90% of the lower part of the tree that fell across the entire back yard, and it didn't cover another tree that fell from another neighbor's yard onto ours. In this particular case, if the tree were to fall (which it definitely would if not cut down), the first few feet would land harmlessly in our yard, but the rest of it would crash over the fence and straight onto our neighbor's house---and AFAIK nobody's standard homeowner's insurance policy would kick in. This poor couple already had another tree (this one from their own yard) crush their garage in the middle of the night (fortunately without the car in it), and for people who only moved in a few months ago, they must be feeling pretty snakebit. I'm just hoping that with all the zillions of trees down around here, we'll be able to get it out of there before it crashes.
   393. Ron J Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:40 AM (#3911167)
overdoing the story might make some people tune it out the next time.


I suspect there was an aspect to that with Katrina. I was in New Orleans for the potential big storm before Katrina, and the general reaction of the people there was "not again". All of the warnings were essentially ignored by most people -- they'd been over-warned.

That said, there are certain preps that it's flat nuts not to take. Laying in 72 hours of supplies that you can eat if the power is out for instance. Because you can eat them anyhow. There is quite simply no downside to doing this.
   394. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:42 AM (#3911169)
These people needed not one extra item of food as it turned out

Well they'll need it at some point. Unless they bought meals which are only edible during hurricanes.


Yeah, I'm sure that's why they rushed out to get it.
   395. The District Attorney Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:45 AM (#3911171)
Should the subways have remained open?
Nah. There was still flooding affecting the train yards and lines; check out the photos. Certainly, if your main goal is to have things running Monday morning, it's much easier to arrange that coming off an orderly shutdown well in advance, as opposed to a "oh ####! we have to close down now!" situation on Sunday morning. (It'd be interesting to know if they would have shut it down had it not been a weekend.)
   396. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:47 AM (#3911174)
That said, there are certain preps that it's flat nuts not to take. Laying in 72 hours of supplies that you can eat if the power is out for instance. Because you can eat them anyhow. There is quite simply no downside to doing this.


But who doesn't have 72 hours of food in their house? I could live for weeks on the non-perishables I have just laying around in the kitchen cabinet. For everyone I know it's the same. Under what scenario were people going to be trapped in their houses for weeks, with no access to food?
   397. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:51 AM (#3911176)
I also want to hear how this happened:

A woman who had called police early Sunday for help getting out of her flooded car in Salem County was found dead in the vehicle hours later.


I don't know the details of this particular story, but I do know that, at least where I live, if you are under a mandatory evacuation order and choose not to leave, you are told that emergency services will not be available. If you stay in your home and suffer a heart attack, you're on your own. So, it's possible this woman was in a mandatory evacuation area and emergency services were not available.
   398. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:55 AM (#3911178)
But who doesn't have 72 hours of food in their house? I could live for weeks on the non-perishables I have just laying around in the kitchen cabinet. For everyone I know it's the same. Under what scenario were people going to be trapped in their houses for weeks, with no access to food?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but Manhattan is an island, right? How about a scenario where you are trapped on an island for more than 72 hours, with 3 million of your closest friends, with no access to food?
   399. Ron J Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:56 AM (#3911180)
#290 Somebody didn't pay attention to the warnings. Make sure you have cash. $100 is the suggested minimum. Not only might the ATMs be down, but the networks required for credit card transactions could also be down. Again it's a precaution worth taking since there's no downside.
   400. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 29, 2011 at 01:59 AM (#3911181)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Manhattan is an island, right? How about a scenario where you are trapped on an island for more than 72 hours, with 3 million of your closest friends, with no access to food?


It's not Castaway. There's plenty of food here. And it's not like it's miles to your neighbor's house.
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