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Friday, August 26, 2011

The Hurricane Irene Thread

There was the Swine Flu thread, so why not the Hurricane thread. Isn’t that right, New York Mets and the rest of the Northeast teams?

The New York Mets say they have postponed Saturday and Sunday’s games against the Atlanta Braves because of Hurricane Irene.

Both games will be rescheduled as a single-admission doubleheader on Sept. 8 beginning at 4:10 p.m.

Major League Baseball already had moved Sunday’s games at Philadelphia and Boston to Saturday to make them part of day-night doubleheaders. The Phillies play the Marlins and the Red Sox play the Athletics.


So to the primates on the Eastern coastal regions- stay safe.

Gamingboy Posted: August 26, 2011 at 08:49 PM | 912 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: community, special topics

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   801. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: August 30, 2011 at 08:26 PM (#3912623)
Oh, I'm sorry. Were we writing a new Bible here?

I have no idea what you're talking about now.
   802. McCoy Posted: August 30, 2011 at 08:40 PM (#3912632)
Yes, I discovered that after your last post. Thus the apology.
   803. Chicago Joe Posted: August 30, 2011 at 08:47 PM (#3912638)
Yes, I discovered that after your last post. Thus the apology.


McCoy, I think you've won the bet.
   804. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: August 30, 2011 at 09:12 PM (#3912650)
Well, ConEd has an easier job. Power lines in NYC are below ground, so they're not vulnerable to wind, like the above ground power lines in Long island are. My understanding is that for NYC to lose power in a hurricane, flooding would have to be the culprit, and even in that case, it would have to be very severe before it affected more than a small portion of the city (of course, even a small portion of the city is a lot of people).

Well yes, but they cover lot's of the outer boroughs and Westchester where that isn't true.

~190,000 Con Ed customers lost power, but ~150,000 are back. That seems like a lot higher rate than LIPA is managing.

There's also nothing stopping LIPA from burying its power lines if this is a major ongoing issue.
   805. catomi01 Posted: August 30, 2011 at 09:26 PM (#3912665)
Why is LIPA (nee LILCO) so horrible?


Don't know for sure - but it just doesn't seem like there is enough man-power on the ground right now...I've obviously had limited exposure...but since the storm I've had to move back and forth between Yaphank, Port Jeff, and Massapequa a couple of times, and through that fairly large triangle, I've seen many, many more Verizon and Optimum trucks out on the roads - doesn't mean LIPA is sitting on their asses, from what they say they've restored something like half the people who were out, but of for no other reason than to lift my spirits, I wouldn't mind seeing a LIPA employee somewhere in the vicinity of the tree that knocked out my power, or came down on my in-laws truck...
   806. catomi01 Posted: August 30, 2011 at 09:31 PM (#3912669)
2nd issue is probably geographic size - nassau/queens border to montauk is probably 80-100 miles or so, north shore to south shore is 15-20 miles on average...thats a lot of lines strung between a lot of trees...complicated by all of the neighborhood lines running from the main branches...at the end of the day, I think there is just too much that can go wrong, combined with the fact that it doesn't make sense to keep a stand-by force of workers big enough to challenge any issue...so the outside line workers get called in, which takes time and money, so they wait til they're absolutely needed...I sympathize with their troubles and the cost/benefit issues they have to take into account, but it won't stop me from being angry when I go home to a dark house and warm beer tonight.
   807. Chicago Joe Posted: August 30, 2011 at 11:29 PM (#3912738)
here's also nothing stopping LIPA from burying its power lines if this is a major ongoing issue.

Money?
   808. Something Other Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:09 AM (#3913052)
Your whole post is a massive logic fail.

Please stop your whining Ray, it's annoying. ##### ##### ##### ##### #####.
See, Ray didn't realize this thread was about a hurricane. He thought the thread was about him. Any time the thread threatens to be about something interesting (i.e. not Ray), he'll do the internet post version of jumping up and down shouting "Notice me! Notice me!" (("Gouging Good!" "Joe Camel Good!")} And, sadly, enough people will oblige the drab little narcissist and another thread will go at least a little off the rails.
   809. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:11 AM (#3913053)
You're seeing this as a matter of positive incentives where everyone wins, but in the real world the practical results will be (a) a few "shrewd" Shylocks will make a killing; (b) well-off people will be guaranteed their supplies with less waiting in line; and (c) other people will be out of luck or out of more money than they can afford.
Boy, live a few days without any electricity/ability to read BBTF, and one gets to miss a little casual anti-Semitism to go with economic illiteracy!
   810. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:39 AM (#3913060)
So power has been restored, David? Did you reach the famed 72 hours?
   811. rr Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:47 AM (#3913063)
Nieporent is back. We have to hope he used the power outage to his advantage by avoiding the Orioles for three days.
   812. Something Other Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:47 AM (#3913064)
Those of you rolling around in your own waste over some woman who bought an astonishing forty-eight AA batteries do realize that AA batteries are tiny, right? That a pack of twenty-four of them very, very easily fits into even a small hand, and that snagging a couple of packs off a rack is something no one (else) thinks twice about? Sweet Jesus. What a bunch of wankers.

On the subject of vastly more important things, Vera Farmiga is probably going to be the Meryl Streep of her generation. I'm watching Quid Pro Quo, in which she plays a wanna be paralytic. She's absolutely convincing as someone who can float all around without ever touching the island of sanity. Last week I saw her play the closed-off Captain in Source Code. Amazing range.

No, for them the rational response to gouging is torching and looting. There are extra-market (extra-legal goes without saying) means to keep merchants in check.
I'm sympathetic. By the way, for those of you who are pro-gouging, I look forward to being in the audience at your liver transplant, when the doc says as you're about to go under the knife, "We need to talk. My fee? Well, here's the thing..."

The silly thing about batteries is that they really are almost pointless in power outages. Just get an LED crank flashlight. They don't require batteries.


Yup. They're amazing little devices. I was given as a present a lantern that operates on this principle. Great for camping, bright enough to read by, and for someone with kids such as bbc makes perfect sense to be able to light a room adequately to navigate without risk of the little ones knocking over something with a flame going on it. I can recommend them unequivocally.
   813. Howie Menckel Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:04 AM (#3913070)
Still horrendous road navigation issues in North Jersey today - as in 15-minute commutes turning into 90 minutes.

I think the last awful river cresting was tonight, so maybe tomorrow we can better assess.

But possibly the worst weather event ever in a region that has had many bad ones.

I do realize that it doesn't matter, because some wound up being not affected and therefore not terribly inconvenienced.
   814. McCoy Posted: August 31, 2011 at 11:41 AM (#3913107)
I'm sympathetic. By the way, for those of you who are pro-gouging, I look forward to being in the audience at your liver transplant, when the doc says as you're about to go under the knife, "We need to talk. My fee? Well, here's the thing..."

As opposed to dying while on a waiting list?
   815. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 11:57 AM (#3913112)
You're seeing this as a matter of positive incentives where everyone wins, but in the real world the practical results will be (a) a few "shrewd" Shylocks will make a killing; (b) well-off people will be guaranteed their supplies with less waiting in line; and (c) other people will be out of luck or out of more money than they can afford.

Boy, live a few days without any electricity/ability to read BBTF, and one gets to miss a little casual anti-Semitism to go with economic illiteracy!


Spare me your faux political correctness, Miss Rand. Shylocks come in all creeds, and they all don't live in Venice, either.
   816. catomi01 Posted: August 31, 2011 at 12:08 PM (#3913116)
"For Verizon landline telephone and FiOS services, John Bonomo, director of media relations, said there are sporadic problems on Long Island, but "there are no large-scale outages." while LIPA still has a quarter million customers in the dark...Verizon certainly serves few customers on LI than does LIPA, but the fact that they're have simply been more Verizon workers on the street can't hurt.
   817. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 01:57 PM (#3913215)
So the charge of "faux political correctness" is the defense. Okay.
   818. Chicago Joe Posted: August 31, 2011 at 02:12 PM (#3913241)
It was pretty funny to see "Shylock" used to refer to Arabs. Andy's lucky he's not the target of a fatwa.
   819. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 02:32 PM (#3913265)
Spare me your faux political correctness, Miss Rand. Shylocks come in all creeds, and they all don't live in Venice, either.


I glossed over this when you posted it as well, but I shouldn't have. Shylock is an offensive, derogatory term. You sound like an old man stuck in his ignorant ways.
   820. billyshears Posted: August 31, 2011 at 02:49 PM (#3913284)
By the way, for those of you who are pro-gouging, I look forward to being in the audience at your liver transplant, when the doc says as you're about to go under the knife, "We need to talk. My fee? Well, here's the thing..."


Presumably one would agree on a fee before they were on the table and had the ability to negotiate with many doctors.
   821. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 02:55 PM (#3913295)
Spare me your faux political correctness, Miss Rand. Shylocks come in all creeds, and they all don't live in Venice, either.

So the charge of "faux political correctness" is the defense. Okay.


It was pretty funny to see "Shylock" used to refer to Arabs. Andy's lucky he's not the target of a fatwa.


I glossed over this when you posted it as well, but I shouldn't have. Shylock is an offensive, derogatory term. You sound like an old man stuck in his ignorant ways.


Gee, nobody's offended that I also referred to a clearly heterosexual male as "Miss Rand"? How did that sexist slur manage to slip under y'alls' sensitive radar?

I'm sorry if people want to read inferences in "Shylock" that weren't intended, as should have been clearly seen from the fact that it was used to describe Arab oil sheiks. But now if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to listening to Tannhauser and curling up with my prized first edition of Alfred Rosenberg's memoirs. Can't wait for that Bund rally tonight, and I've got to be prepared.
   822. Chicago Joe Posted: August 31, 2011 at 03:36 PM (#3913344)
It was pretty funny to see "Shylock" used to refer to Arabs. Andy's lucky he's not the target of a fatwa.


Funny in the sense of humorous and absurd.
   823.   Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:13 PM (#3913380)
Andy's crazy.
   824. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:14 PM (#3913384)
It was pretty funny to see "Shylock" used to refer to Arabs. Andy's lucky he's not the target of a fatwa.


Funny in the sense of humorous and absurd.

Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel (no pun intended), as they did during the two oil crises of the 70's, I'd sure like to know what that word might be. The prejudices of Shakespeare's 16th century England perhaps compelled him to depict a Jewish moneylender in his play, but Shylock himself is a universal human type.
   825. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:16 PM (#3913387)
Andy's crazy.

I'll bear that in mind.
   826. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:30 PM (#3913406)
Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel


Useful market participants.

But that's three words.

Helpers?
   827. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:34 PM (#3913409)
Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel (no pun intended), as they did during the two oil crises of the 70's, I'd sure like to know what that word might be.

The oligarchs of the 70s oil crisis were price fixers, not price "gougers." Price "gouging" isn't necessily oligopolistic; referring to some random NYC bodega owner as an "oligarch" is positively absurd.
   828. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:44 PM (#3913415)
So power has been restored, David? Did you reach the famed 72 hours?
Power has not, in fact, been restored. We are now at 79 hours and counting. I was just able to go to work, as NJ Transit decided that three days without running trains was enough, and had a few minutes to check in on the thread while catching up.

Nieporent is back. We have to hope he used the power outage to his advantage by avoiding the Orioles for three days.
Thus missing Zach Britton's performance against the Yankees, plus a walk-off win yesterday.
   829. McCoy Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:49 PM (#3913422)
Thankfully David had 48 AA batteries to tide him over and fortunately his hands are big enough that he can hold 24 in one hand.
   830.   Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:52 PM (#3913426)

Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel


American
   831. Swedish Chef Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:53 PM (#3913429)
American

Americans sell stuff?
   832. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:54 PM (#3913430)
Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel (no pun intended), as they did during the two oil crises of the 70's, I'd sure like to know what that word might be. The prejudices of Shakespeare's 16th century England perhaps compelled him to depict a Jewish moneylender in his play, but Shylock himself is a universal human type.
Uh-huh. And trying to get low prices is pretty universal, too, so saying that someone \"##### him down" isn't really anti-Semitic, right? In fact, it's the very act of applying the phrase to a non-Jew that proves that it's not anti-Semitic to use the phrase! Keep spinning, Andy.


I can think of lots of phrases that aren't anti-Semitic slurs to "describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel." (Moreover, "Shylock" doesn't even make any sense in that context. Shylock was the moneylender, not the eponymous merchant, in the play. And OPEC were not "price gougers" at all.)
   833. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 04:57 PM (#3913434)
Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel

Useful market participants.

But that's three words.

Helpers?


First time I've ever heard those words used to describe a bunch of mideastern oil barons, but maybe that's because I don't travel in your interesting circle.

----------------------------

The oligarchs of the 70s oil crisis were price fixers, not price "gougers."

In this case, it was a distinction without a difference, as they increased the price of a barrel of oil by 70% in one day.

Price "gouging" isn't necessily oligopolistic; referring to some random NYC bodega owner as an "oligarch" is positively absurd.

Obviously there are degrees of price gouging, with OPEC's actions in 1973 and 1979 being on the extreme end of the spectrum, and I don't think I was using that term to describe any specific act of temporary price spikes on items like batteries or Ray's Wonder Bread. At worst I'd call the latter actions mild moral misdemeanors, and I certainly wouldn't call them "oligarchs".
   834. The Good Face Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:04 PM (#3913445)
I'm sorry if people want to read inferences in "Shylock" that weren't intended, as should have been clearly seen from the fact that it was used to describe Arab oil sheiks. But now if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to listening to Tannhauser and curling up with my prized first edition of Alfred Rosenberg's memoirs. Can't wait for that Bund rally tonight, and I've got to be prepared.


I like how Andy tops off his anti-Semetic slurs with one of those, "I'm sorry you were stupid enough to be offended" non-apologies.
   835. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:05 PM (#3913447)
Uh-huh. And trying to get low prices is pretty universal, too, so saying that someone \"##### him down" isn't really anti-Semitic, right? In fact, it's the very act of applying the phrase to a non-Jew that proves that it's not anti-Semitic to use the phrase! Keep spinning, Andy.

Shylock is a well-known literary reference that describes a universal human character type. "Jew him down" is a common playground slur. Of course there's absolutely no difference between the two.

I can think of lots of phrases that aren't anti-Semitic slurs to "describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel."

But apparently you can't come up with any, probably because you identify with the Arab Shylocks and see them as being among Ray's "helpers". Talk about spinning.

(Moreover, "Shylock" doesn't even make any sense in that context. Shylock was the moneylender, not the eponymous merchant, in the play. And OPEC were not "price gougers" at all.

Keep spinning along, David. Perhaps if they'd jacked up the one day price of oil by 770% instead of 70% you might consider reconsidering. But on second thought, you'd probably call us all a bunch of suckers for not having invested in oil stocks.
   836. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:07 PM (#3913450)
I like how Andy tops off his anti-Semetic slurs with one of those, "I'm sorry you were stupid enough to be offended" non-apologies.

Not stupid, just straining to hammer a round peg into a square hole, as usual. I wouldn't expect anything different either from them or from you.
   837. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:07 PM (#3913451)
In this case, it was a distinction without a difference, as they increased the price of a barrel of oil by 70% in one day.

If you don't know or can't see the difference between price fixing and price "gouging," I can't help you.

Obviously there are degrees of price gouging, with OPEC's actions in 1973 and 1979 being on the extreme end of the spectrum, and I don't think I was using that term to describe any specific act of temporary price spikes on items like batteries or Ray's Wonder Bread. At worst I'd call the latter actions mild moral misdemeanors, and I certainly wouldn't call them "oligarchs".

OPEC's actions weren't price gouging at all. They were price fixing. And you did use the term "gouging" to describe "temporary price spikes on items like batteries or Ray's Wonder Bread"(**) -- naturally, since "Should store owners be allowed to raise prices to keep their shelves stocked?" was the only context in which it was being discussed. That was followed up by a gentlemanly retreat, in which you first distinguished OPEC and battery merchants, subtly buried within a much longer recitation.

(**) Quite angrily, if memory serves.
   838. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:12 PM (#3913455)
The prejudices of Shakespeare's 16th century England perhaps compelled him to depict a Jewish moneylender in his play, but Shylock himself is a universal human type.


Shylock himself is a Jew, you can't just take that out of the equation. It's not like the word existed before Shakespeare and he just applied it to the character. This is one of those times when you should just acquiesce and maybe not use the word in a derogatory tone anymore instead of digging yourself into a hole while claiming to be misunderstood* and the subject of vicious attacks by a cartel of Ray, David, and one or two others**.

*it's all posted upthread, I've said it before in different words, I am not going to say it again damnit

**the 'others' change periodically, but they are always there, watching...
   839. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:14 PM (#3913457)
It's funny how the three most prominent Primates who are seeing anti-semitism in every Shylock reference were also quick to claim that "states' rights" has nothing (no, NOTHING) to do with anti-black code wording. The ability of some people like Nieporent to shift back and forth between political correctness when it suits them, and feigned total cluelessness about racial history when it suits them, is one of the more entertaining phenomena of the modern right wing yahoo.
   840. McCoy Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:16 PM (#3913459)
profiteer
locust
parasite
price gouger
carpetbagger
shark
swindler
profitmonger
   841. McCoy Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:17 PM (#3913460)
It's funny how the three most prominent Primates who are seeing anti-semitism in every Shylock reference were also quick to claim that "states' rights" has nothing (no, NOTHING) to do with anti-black code wording. The ability of some people like Nieporent to shift back and forth between political correctness when it suits them, and feigned total cluelessness about racial history when it suits them, is one of the more entertaining phenomena of the modern right wing yahoo.

And it is also funny how the person who argued that "states' rights" was anti-black code wording sees no harm in using the word "shylock".
   842. Chicago Joe Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:19 PM (#3913463)
"Should store owners be allowed to raise prices to keep their shelves stocked?"


But the owners didn't have to raise prices in order to keep their shelves stocked. They saw an opportunity and took it with what could have been necessities. It wasn't a run on beanie babies.
   843. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:20 PM (#3913466)
Shylock himself is a Jew, you can't just take that out of the equation. It's not like the word existed before Shakespeare and he just applied it to the character. This is one of those times when you should just acquiesce and maybe not use the word in a derogatory tone anymore instead of digging yourself into a hole while claiming to be misunderstood* and the subject of vicious attacks by a cartel of Ray, David, and one or two others**.

*it's all posted upthread, I've said it before in different words, I am not going to say it again damnit

**the 'others' change periodically, but they are always there, watching...


jacksone, if I'd been applying the "S" word to Jews and Jews only, you'd have a point. But AFAICR, whenever I've invoked Shylock in this thread, it hasn't been in reference to a single Jewish person. You have to really be looking to be offended not to notice a simple fact like that. I'm not claiming to be the victim of any "vicious attacks" by anyone, but neither am I leveling any "anti-semitic" attacks on anyone. I'm sorry if you can't recognize that.
   844. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:22 PM (#3913470)
It's funny how the three most prominent Primates who are seeing anti-semitism in every Shylock reference were also quick to claim that "states' rights" has nothing (no, NOTHING) to do with anti-black code wording. The ability of some people like Nieporent to shift back and forth between political correctness when it suits them, and feigned total cluelessness about racial history when it suits them, is one of the more entertaining phenomena of the modern right wing yahoo.

The "dog whistle" again?

"Shylock" in its purest sense means "Usurious Jew." It's barely budged from that meaning since the age of Shakespeare. There's nothing "coded" about it.
   845. McCoy Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:24 PM (#3913474)
So we can hurl racial slurs at people as long as they don't belong to the race that is being slurred?
   846. Danny Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:25 PM (#3913475)
It's funny how the three most prominent Primates who are seeing anti-semitism in every Shylock reference were also quick to claim that "states' rights" has nothing (no, NOTHING) to do with anti-black code wording. The ability of some people like Nieporent to shift back and forth between political correctness when it suits them, and feigned total cluelessness about racial history when it suits them, is one of the more entertaining phenomena of the modern right wing yahoo.

So much irony; so little awareness.

jacksone, if I'd been applying the "S" word to Jews and Jews only, you'd have a point. But AFAICR, whenever I've invoked Shylock in this thread, it hasn't been in reference to a single Jewish person. You have to really be looking to be offended not to notice a simple fact like that. I'm not claiming to be the victim of any "vicious attacks" by anyone, but neither am I leveling any "anti-semitic" attacks on anyone. I'm sorry if you can't recognize that.

Well, sure I called him a bunch of homophobic slurs. But it's cool; he's not actually gay.
   847. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:25 PM (#3913476)
profiteer
locust
parasite
price gouger
carpetbagger
shark
swindler
profitmonger


Some of which I've used in this thread and others, and will likely use again, to the chagrin and objection of most everyone here who seems to see them as some sort of economic "helpers".

And it is also funny how the person who argued that "states' rights" was anti-black code wording sees no harm in using the word "shylock".

I think I can safely say that I could produce a lot more evidence, both testimonial and material, that I've never been an anti-semite than Jesse Helms or Strom Thurmond could have produced that they weren't racists of highest order.
   848. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:28 PM (#3913478)
Obviously this is becoming a dead end conversation. I'm sorry if I've really offended anyone**, and in the future I'll just stick to saying "price gougers". There, is everyone now happy that they've obtained their pound of flesh? (smile)

** which I doubt, but whatever
   849. base ball chick Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:45 PM (#3913491)
boy the stuff i've learned!!!

andy is a criminal and a communist and an anti-jew.
- but birds of a feather i guess because i taped all the astros games in the 05 playoffs and have watched them more than once and not erased them. and i think people who charge 50 bucks for a bag of ice with power outages/storms are teh sukc
- and i learned 2 new words "usurer" which i didn't know was jewish and "shylock" which i always thought was sherlock only not spelled/pronounced right

i guess all this shylock usurer stuff goes back to the bad reps from the moneylenders in the temple that jesus chased out
   850. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:51 PM (#3913498)
jacksone, if I'd been applying the "S" word to Jews and Jews only, you'd have a point. But AFAICR, whenever I've invoked Shylock in this thread, it hasn't been in reference to a single Jewish person. You have to really be looking to be offended not to notice a simple fact like that.
That doesn't make any sense as a defense. If there's a vicious stereotype out there about a particular group, and there's a word coined to identify that stereotype, and you apply it to non-members of that group, that doesn't make it less offensive.

In other words, saying, "You greedy Jew!" is not less anti-Semitic because it's applied to someone who isn't Jewish.


(For the record, I don't think that Andy is an anti-Semite; I think he mindlessly used an anti-Semitic phrase, and refused to back down.)
   851. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 05:58 PM (#3913506)
In fact, he doubled down.

Now he's issued a non-apology apology.
   852.   Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:20 PM (#3913519)

andy is a criminal and a communist and an anti-jew.


No, he's just a stubborn prick who refuses to admit that maybe, just maybe, he said something he shouldn't have.
   853. CrosbyBird Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:34 PM (#3913530)
Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel (no pun intended), as they did during the two oil crises of the 70's, I'd sure like to know what that word might be.

Put aside any anti-Semitism* for a moment. It's not a very good reference. Shylock was much, much more than price-gouger. He charged unreasonable prices not because simply because he was greedy, but because he wanted Antonio to suffer. It's about a lot more than just Antonio lending without interest. It's about his daughter leaving him with Antonio's friend, and her stealing his money. Shylock isn't just greedy, but spiteful.

Even if you see it all about money and greed, the appropriate use of the term is to represent "loan shark."

Modern interpretations often emphasize that Antonio is a pretty serious scumbag. He spends the first part of the play mocking and abusing Shylock, and then comes begging when his situation is desperate. They've moved away from Shylock as being "a Jew, what do you expect from that sort of person" to someone who is seeking revenge (not enough to justify the cruelty, although certainly enough to justify the dislike).

*I don't believe that every reference to Shylock is, on its face, anti-Semitic, and I'm fairly certain that Andy didn't mean it that way at all. I'm not sure even Shakespeare was anti-Semitic (although Antonio certainly was). There's enough right in the text to offer a sympathetic reading. The other characters are not noble and not sympathetic, and Shylock is only defeated by a sham trial and given a brutally unfair sentence, including forced conversion.
   854. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:40 PM (#3913537)
(For the record, I don't think that Andy is an anti-Semite;

Just as I'll defend you and others against charges of racism when you pretend to believe that "states' rights" wasn't used as a euphemism for "keep the nig***s down". And just as we both defended that Fed Ex worker with the noose when he was being dragged through the mud on totally unproven charged of racism. People can have differences of interpretation about word usage and symbolism without having to hear that sort of crap.

----------------------------------------------

Now he's issued a non-apology apology.

That's a fairly accurate way of putting it, but the bottom line is that I'll revert to "price gougers" in the future, so that hopefully your return rhetoric will revert in turn to that of the oil sheiks, rather than that of Norman Podhoretz.

----------------------------------------------

No, he's just a stubborn prick

Now that's something I'll always admit.
   855. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:43 PM (#3913543)
The silly thing about batteries is that they really are almost pointless in power outages. Just get an LED crank flashlight. They don't require batteries.
You do realize that there are things other than flashlights that use batteries, right? Including stuff that might be handy or just pleasant to have working during a blackout?

On the subject of vastly more important things, Vera Farmiga is probably going to be the Meryl Streep of her generation. I'm watching Quid Pro Quo, in which she plays a wanna be paralytic. She's absolutely convincing as someone who can float all around without ever touching the island of sanity. Last week I saw her play the closed-off Captain in Source Code. Amazing range.
I'm not much of an acting critic, but I will note that she was absolutely delicious in Up in the Air. (One of those performances that left me completely infatuated with her character, something that was also true of Emily Blunt in The Adjustment Bureau.)
   856. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:46 PM (#3913551)
Mmmm, prescience. I think I may spend too much time on BBTF.

And Andy, I don't think you are anti-Semitic at all, just predictable when arguing a losing battle.
   857. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:49 PM (#3913556)
Well, if you can think of a better word than "Shylock" to describe a group of oligopolistic price gougers who take full advantage of the situation when they have the world over a barrel (no pun intended), as they did during the two oil crises of the 70's, I'd sure like to know what that word might be.

Put aside any anti-Semitism* for a moment. It's not a very good reference. Shylock was much, much more than price-gouger. He charged unreasonable prices not because simply because he was greedy, but because he wanted Antonio to suffer. It's about a lot more than just Antonio lending without interest. It's about his daughter leaving him with Antonio's friend, and her stealing his money. Shylock isn't just greedy, but spiteful.

Even if you see it all about money and greed, the appropriate use of the term is to represent "loan shark."

Modern interpretations often emphasize that Antonio is a pretty serious scumbag. He spends the first part of the play mocking and abusing Shylock, and then comes begging when his situation is desperate. They've moved away from Shylock as being "a Jew, what do you expect from that sort of person" to someone who is seeking revenge (not enough to justify the cruelty, although certainly enough to justify the dislike).

*I don't believe that every reference to Shylock is, on its face, anti-Semitic, and I'm fairly certain that Andy didn't mean it that way at all. I'm not sure even Shakespeare was anti-Semitic (although Antonio certainly was). There's enough right in the text to offer a sympathetic reading. The other characters are not noble and not sympathetic, and Shylock is only defeated by a sham trial and given a brutally unfair sentence, including forced conversion.


Now that's the sort of response that's fair, informative, and totally in context. I was using the term as a shorthand for "greed to the nth degree", but now that you've refreshed my memory of the play's details (it's been exactly 50 years since I last read it as a senior in high school), I can see that I used it in too broad a sense. I have no problem in admitting that with no qualification, and again, in the future I'll stick to "price gougers" to describe actions that I see fitting that description.
   858. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:50 PM (#3913558)
*I don't believe that every reference to Shylock is, on its face, anti-Semitic, and I'm fairly certain that Andy didn't mean it that way at all. I'm not sure even Shakespeare was anti-Semitic (although Antonio certainly was). There's enough right in the text to offer a sympathetic reading. The other characters are not noble and not sympathetic, and Shylock is only defeated by a sham trial and given a brutally unfair sentence, including forced conversion.


I agree an in-depth reading can lead to this understanding, but to most casual observers who have heard the word before I stand by Shylock being a derogatory term for a Jew.

You do realize that there are things other than flashlights that use batteries, right? Including stuff that might be handy or just pleasant to have working during a blackout?

Portable DVD players and...?
   859. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:51 PM (#3913561)
Now that's the sort of response that's both fair and totally in context. I was using the term as a shorthand for "greed to the nth degree", but now that you've refreshed my memory of the play's details (it's been exactly 50 years since I last read it as a senior in high school), I can see that I used it in too broad a sense. And I have no problem in admitting that with no qualification, and again, in the future I'll stick to "price gougers" to describe actions that I see fitting that description.


Damnit Andy, stop being reasonable. Bet you still can't agree with Ray on something!
   860. The Id of SugarBear Blanks Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:54 PM (#3913566)
Just as I'll defend you and others against charges of racism when you pretend to believe that "states' rights" wasn't used as a euphemism for "keep the nig***s down".

What term would you use to describe the "powers ... reserved to the states," expressly and in those words, by the 10th Amendment? I'll happily sign the "Andy's not an anti-Semite" petition that seems to be all the rage, but equating "Shylock" and "states' rights" is absurd.
   861.   Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:55 PM (#3913568)
You do realize that there are things other than flashlights that use batteries, right? Including stuff that might be handy or just pleasant to have working during a blackout?


Nobody's cellphone or tablet or laptop runs on AA's. ;)
   862. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 06:57 PM (#3913573)
Damnit Andy, stop being reasonable. Bet you still can't agree with Ray on something!

I think Ray and I would agree that I'd clean his clock in pool and that he'd leave me catching my breath in tennis. You might have to give me a week to think of a third thing.
   863. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:04 PM (#3913578)
I'm not much of an acting critic, but I will note that she was absolutely delicious in Up in the Air. (One of those performances that left me completely infatuated with her character,


This, of course, is completely wrong.

The absolutely delicious character in Up in the Air was Anna Kendrick's character.
   864. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:05 PM (#3913579)
Just as I'll defend you and others against charges of racism when you pretend to believe that "states' rights" wasn't used as a euphemism for "keep the nig***s down".

What term would you use to describe the "powers ... reserved to the states," expressly and in those words, by the 10th Amendment? I'll happily sign the "Andy's not an anti-Semite" petition that seems to be all the rage, but equating "Shylock" and "states' rights" is absurd.


It's absurd to equate "Shylock" in its worst possible interpretation with "states' rights" in its literal (and decontextualized) form, but it's not at all absurd to compare the use of the two terms as they were invoked by real anti-semites** and by politicians like Helms and Thurmond. We're not exactly talking about the racial equivalent of Shakespeare scholars.

**who always used "Shylock" when referring to Jews, and Jews only
   865. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:07 PM (#3913584)
I think Ray and I would agree that I'd clean his clock in pool and that he'd leave me catching my breath in tennis. You might have to give me a week to think of a third thing.


Stipulated. I can probably see better than you, too, even if I'm half blind myself.
   866. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:11 PM (#3913593)
Nobody's cellphone or tablet or laptop runs on AA's. ;)
Sure about that?

This, of course, is completely wrong. The absolutely delicious character in Up in the Air was Anna Kendrick's character.
That's fine, we'll match up well as wingmen then. EDIT: I found her cute, sweet and naive (as she's mostly supposed to be), but that doesn't get my juices going like sexy and self-aware does.
   867.   Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:16 PM (#3913599)
Whenever I read the word "shylock" I think of
   868. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:24 PM (#3913610)
Sure about that?


You clearly didn't click on my link...the crank LED flashlight is also a phone charger. And radio, so don't say that either.
   869. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:25 PM (#3913612)
Anna Kendrick


Huh, reminds me of Danica Patrick.
   870. Benji Gil Gamesh Rises Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:36 PM (#3913625)
You clearly didn't click on my link...the crank LED flashlight is also a phone charger.
What about a radio?

And radio, so don't say that either.
Blast! :)
   871. billyshears Posted: August 31, 2011 at 07:52 PM (#3913650)
This, of course, is completely wrong.

The absolutely delicious character in Up in the Air was Anna Kendrick's character.


Up in the Air was a terrible movie. Nobody's character was delicious.
   872. jacksone (AKA It's OK...) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:08 PM (#3913674)
Blast! :)


Well, I am surprised you haven't heard of the crank LED/charger/radio, after all it's production facilities have put Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke on the map.
   873. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:19 PM (#3913689)
I think Ray and I would agree that I'd clean his clock in pool and that he'd leave me catching my breath in tennis. You might have to give me a week to think of a third thing.

Stipulated. I can probably see better than you, too, even if I'm half blind myself.


Well, thanks to lasik I've got 20/20 if I use both eyes, and on a good night I can cut the paint off a nine ball, but OTOH I can only see at all out of the bottom half of my left eye and about 90% of the right one. I've always wondered why nobody caught Kirby Puckett's glaucoma before it was too late to do much about it, especially since it takes about a two second self-examination to see if you're likely to be a candidate for it.** And Michael Douglas's throat cancer could have been nipped in the bud if he'd even bothered to get a routine exam when his symptoms began, and look where that poor guy is today.

**Which I hadn't known at the time, although now it's under control.
   874. Don Geovany Soto (chris h.) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:21 PM (#3913693)
look where that poor guy is today

Loaded with money and married to Catherine Zeta-Jones?
   875. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:21 PM (#3913695)
Just as I'll defend you and others against charges of racism when you pretend to believe that "states' rights" wasn't used as a euphemism for "keep the nig***s down". And just as we both defended that Fed Ex worker with the noose when he was being dragged through the mud on totally unproven charged of racism. People can have differences of interpretation about word usage and symbolism without having to hear that sort of crap.
"Wasn't used" when? I agree that the phrase may often have been used to signify racism. I just didn't agree that the phrase always was used that way, in every context. And moreover, I strenuously object to the idea that the concept of "state's rights" -- as opposed to the phrase -- is "racist." When someone from Mississippi was whining about Brown and citing "state's rights," that's one thing; when someone from Wyoming was complaining about the federal government's environmental regulation, that's quite another.

EDIT:
It's absurd to equate "Shylock" in its worst possible interpretation
"Worst possible interpretation"? Shylock was a Jewish character who possessed the stereotypical qualities of Jews. Nobody is arguing that "loan shark" or "moneylender" or any of the words McCoy used in 840 are anti-Semitic merely because Jews have occasionally been associated with those professions or that behavior. Shylock, though, is an explicitly Jewish reference.

EDIT 2: Nor am I claiming that, e.g., "shyster" is anti-Semitic; some have mistakenly associated it with "Shylock" because of the similarity, but there's no similarity in derivation.
   876. just plain joe Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:27 PM (#3913701)
Portable DVD players and...?


Well, I have a small pepper mill that requires no less than six (6) AA batteries in order to operate. If the power remains off for long enough that pepper mill could easily move from the luxury category to the necessary; it all depends on much you need to disguise the taste of food that has started to go a little "off".
   877. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:32 PM (#3913709)
Vera Farmiga? Huh. IMDb tells me I've seen her recently in 3 movies -- Source Code, Orphan & Neverwas -- but I'm having a hard time placing her.

Which tells me only that I watch far too many movies.
   878. A big pile of nonsense (gef the talking mongoose) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:32 PM (#3913712)
Double post, dammit.
   879. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:42 PM (#3913720)
And Michael Douglas's throat cancer could have been nipped in the bud if he'd even bothered to get a routine exam when his symptoms began, and look where that poor guy is today.


I read that he did go to get checked out, and they couldn't find the problem. Took them months to find it.

Though he seems to be doing ok now. Apparently one of the rags caught him smoking recently and snapped a photo.
   880. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:46 PM (#3913726)
Vera Farmiga? Huh. IMDb tells me I've seen her recently in 3 movies -- Source Code, Orphan & Neverwas -- but I'm having a hard time placing her.


She was the officer in Source Code that Gyllenhall (however you spell that) was communicating with.

She's apparently the new "in" actor. Matthew McConaughey was at one point, also. Who knows why these things happen.
   881. Ray (RDP) Posted: August 31, 2011 at 08:54 PM (#3913738)
So we have now succeeded in convicting Andy for (1) copyright infringement, and (2) using an anti-Semitic word and then being slow to back away from it. I'm reminded of Tom Cruise's snide observation in A Few Good Men re Demi Moore's strategy of going after Jack Nicholson: "If we work hard enough, maybe we can get him charged with the Kennedy assasination."

Andy, WHERE WERE YOU on November 22, 1963??

(Seriously, if he would just concede the obvious from the beginning in these discussions, they wouldn't go on for several hundred posts.)
   882. formerly dp Posted: August 31, 2011 at 09:22 PM (#3913766)
Source Code was surprisingly good. Cringed when I first saw the trailer, turned out to be a really well-done film.
   883.   Posted: August 31, 2011 at 09:56 PM (#3913795)

(Seriously, if he would just concede the obvious from the beginning in these discussions, they wouldn't go on for several hundred posts.)


He must be galactically stupid.
   884. Jolly Old St. Nick Is A Jolly Old St. Crip Posted: August 31, 2011 at 10:25 PM (#3913824)
Just as I'll defend you and others against charges of racism when you pretend to believe that "states' rights" wasn't used as a euphemism for "keep the nig***s down". And just as we both defended that Fed Ex worker with the noose when he was being dragged through the mud on totally unproven charged of racism. People can have differences of interpretation about word usage and symbolism without having to hear that sort of crap.

"Wasn't used" when? I agree that the phrase may often have been used to signify racism.


David, that's the first time I've ever seen you admit that in any forthright way. To the extent that you ever did before this, it was always laid exclusively on the "Dixiecrats" (which of course I've never denied) and never their Republican successors, Helms and Thurmond in particular. If just once you'd admitted that Jesse Helms was a flat out racist rather than some sort of disinterested constitutional philosopher, you could have spared us all a lot of energy.

I just didn't agree that the phrase always was used that way, in every context. And moreover, I strenuously object to the idea that the concept of "state's rights" -- as opposed to the phrase -- is "racist." When someone from Mississippi was whining about Brown and citing "state's rights," that's one thing; when someone from Wyoming was complaining about the federal government's environmental regulation, that's quite another.

"States' rights" divorced from race is a political philosophy which can be discussed on its independent merits, like the whole question of the size of government in general. The question is when it can be divorced from the race question. The further back you go in history, the harder it is to do so, and the closer you approach the end of the 20th century and move into the 21st, the less stigmatized by association the concept becomes.

It's absurd to equate "Shylock" in its worst possible interpretation

"Worst possible interpretation"? Shylock was a Jewish character who possessed the stereotypical qualities of Jews. Nobody is arguing that "loan shark" or "moneylender" or any of the words McCoy used in 840 are anti-Semitic merely because Jews have occasionally been associated with those professions or that behavior. Shylock, though, is an explicitly Jewish reference.

EDIT 2: Nor am I claiming that, e.g., "shyster" is anti-Semitic; some have mistakenly associated it with "Shylock" because of the similarity, but there's no similarity in derivation.


I guess to me it depends much more on the context of who's using these varying terms, whom they're being directed against, and to what extent they're used by the person using them. In truth I've heard "loan shark", "moneylender" and "shyster" used as obvious code words for Jews more often than not, but the reason I thought that was because I knew it from the past histories of the people who were using them. It's the same way I distinguish your use of "states' rights" from the many times it was used by the Dixiecrats, Helms and Thurmond. You don't have any history of racism, but they do, and hence the different presumptions of innocence.

--------------------------------------------

And Michael Douglas's throat cancer could have been nipped in the bud if he'd even bothered to get a routine exam when his symptoms began, and look where that poor guy is today.

I read that he did go to get checked out, and they couldn't find the problem. Took them months to find it.


Possibly so, but my own throat doctor told me that throat cancer is one of the easiest types of cancer to catch early on, and has one of the highest success rates of remission if so caught. He brought up Michael Douglas as an example of the importance of not ignoring early warning signs, which he said that Douglas must have done in order for his cancer not to have been so detected.

Though he seems to be doing ok now. Apparently one of the rags caught him smoking recently and snapped a photo.

It's his life and his lungs, and I hope he beats what's got to be overwhelming odds.

--------------------------------------------

So we have now succeeded in convicting Andy for (1) copyright infringement, and (2) using an anti-Semitic word and then being slow to back away from it. I'm reminded of Tom Cruise's snide observation in A Few Good Men re Demi Moore's strategy of going after Jack Nicholson: "If we work hard enough, maybe we can get him charged with the Kennedy assasination."

Andy, WHERE WERE YOU on November 22, 1963??


Just finishing up a gym class at Duke when I got the news. Nobody who was over the age of five could ever forget that day.

(Seriously, if he would just concede the obvious from the beginning in these discussions, they wouldn't go on for several hundred posts.)

That's a rather tempting straight line, but I'll leave it alone. If God doesn't approve of sarcasm, I don't want Him to take it out on the Yankees.
   885. Howie Menckel Posted: September 01, 2011 at 12:32 AM (#3914010)
My 15-minute-each-way commute took 55 minutes each way today. Brutal, but may get better tomorrow finally. TONS of road closures in North Jersey, and many neighborhoods still taking on water.

My office is right up the hill from Paterson, and that is one brutal ride downhill. Not sure why they don't just shut the city down, or parts of it. President Obama is going to visit there on Sunday. A lot of cities/towns hit are poor like Paterson, a lot are middle-class, and some are upper-middle class. Irene doesn't care - she'll take any destruction she can get. And she's gotten plenty.

The stock market keeps rising, the more that New Jersey drowns. Typical New Yorkers, celebrating Joisey's suffering.

And no, I don't mean that seriously.
   886. Forsch 10 From Navarone (Dayn) Posted: September 01, 2011 at 01:37 AM (#3914129)
(Seriously, if he would just concede the obvious from the beginning in these discussions, they wouldn't go on for several hundred posts.)

Doctor, heal thyself.
   887. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: September 01, 2011 at 03:25 AM (#3914264)
I think "Shylock" is one of those slurs originally applied to one ethnic group, then used more generally, that we should try to avoid in polite conversation. It is similar to "indian giver" in that respect. Some phrases have their origins in ethnic stereotypes although most people are unaware of their origins; still I am uncomfortable useing "welching on a bet" or "paddy wagon"
   888. Los Angeles El Hombre of Anaheim Posted: September 01, 2011 at 03:57 AM (#3914276)
Vera Farmiga? Huh. IMDb tells me I've seen her recently in 3 movies -- Source Code, Orphan & Neverwas -- but I'm having a hard time placing her.
I first remember seeing her in the shortlived UC: Undercover television show. The show was seriously awesome, over-the-top cinematic, but died a 13-episode death. She was great on the show, and those eyes... Mmmm.
   889. The District Attorney Posted: September 01, 2011 at 04:23 AM (#3914287)
I think "Shylock" is one of those slurs originally applied to one ethnic group, then used more generally, that we should try to avoid in polite conversation.
What a gyp.
   890. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 01, 2011 at 03:09 PM (#3914470)
Some phrases have their origins in ethnic stereotypes although most people are unaware of their origins; still I am uncomfortable useing "welching on a bet" or "paddy wagon"
I'm uncomfortable using them because I want people to think I was born sometime in the last 50 years. But as for them being slurs, paddy wagon may rely on a stereotype, but not a negative one; as I understand it, it dervied from the fact that there were so many Irish policemen, not that the criminals were Irish.

It is similar to "indian giver" in that respect.
Great analogy; I was drawing a blank yesterday when trying to come up with an analogy to what Andy was saying. Indian giver is completely a slur, for exactly the same reason. It isn't "used more generally" in the sense of being unrelated to Indians; it's used more generally in the sense of saying that a non-Indian is acting like an Indian by exhibiting this behavior. That's not any less offensive than directly saying that an Indian is doing it. (Except for, if anybody watches the show Psych, it led to one of the funniest lines ever.)
   891. Fred Lynn Nolan Ryan Sweeney Agonistes Posted: September 01, 2011 at 04:05 PM (#3914530)
Great analogy; I was drawing a blank yesterday when trying to come up with an analogy to what Andy was saying. Indian giver is completely a slur, for exactly the same reason. It isn't "used more generally" in the sense of being unrelated to Indians; it's used more generally in the sense of saying that a non-Indian is acting like an Indian by exhibiting this behavior. That's not any less offensive than directly saying that an Indian is doing it.

Huh. I seem to have had the meaning "Indian giver" exactly reversed.
I thought it meant "acting like a person who gives (gave) to the Indians" - as in, white people giving land and eventually taking it right back.

Still, I enjoy the song, in both the 1910 Fruitgum Company and Ramones versions.
   892. zenbitz Posted: September 01, 2011 at 07:05 PM (#3914690)
As one of jewish descent i was not offended by andys blatant slur. But its a blatant racial slur nonetheless.
   893. catomi01 Posted: September 01, 2011 at 09:34 PM (#3914825)
On LI - I got power on last night around 7 PM - then promptly went back out around 3 AM.....as of 2 PM we were still down...funny thing is, other than a couple of cold showers, and spending a few nights at my aunts house instead of at home, life for my wife and I isn't all that different than normal - both worked each day, she's going out with friends tomorrow, I've had 4 softball games, and a fantasy football draft tonight....so far the storm has probably been a lot more of a hassel on my aunt who's generosity we keep imposing on...I just feel bad for the people around here who can't count on nearby family.
   894. Something Other Posted: September 02, 2011 at 06:34 AM (#3915258)
Andy an anti-Semite? That's a stupid and pitiful accusation. Considering the source, though, it doesn't surprise me much, sad to say. Careless? Sure. A stubborn prick? Well, there's that four million post thread about his videotaping habits... but an anti-Semite?

It's impossible not to notice that the clowns jumping on Andy are the first to start whining whenever anyone remotely suggests that a careless use of language is surely meant derogatorily towards some group or other. Isn't one of their favorite whines about those dreadful pc police who terrify goodhearted righties into silent submission regarding any improper use of language?

Hilarious.

I agree an in-depth reading can lead to this understanding, but to most casual observers who have heard the word before I stand by Shylock being a derogatory term for a Jew.
This is such complete nonsense that I guffawed. To know that Shylock was a Jew requires familiarity with the source. Americans don't know Shakespeare except in the vaguest sense. The percentage that would know that Shylocking relates to usury is pretty small. The percentage of that small percentage that would be aware Shylock was a Jew is much smaller. The percentage of that much smaller percentage of a small percentage that would know there was something antisemitic about the terms is miniscule.

And 849 is great, up there with the Keefe posts.

She was the officer in Source Code that Gyllenhall (however you spell that) was communicating with.

She's apparently the new "in" actor. Matthew McConaughey was at one point, also. Who knows why these things happen.
Don't be a dolt. One is an actor. The other is a photogenic surfer. I realize you can't tell the difference, but I assume even you must have lines you know you shouldn't cross. For shame, DiPerna. For shame.

I first remember seeing her in the shortlived UC: Undercover television show.
I did not know that. Bless you, my son. I will look it up.
   895. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 02, 2011 at 09:31 AM (#3915277)
This is such complete nonsense that I guffawed. To know that Shylock was a Jew requires familiarity with the source. Americans don't know Shakespeare except in the vaguest sense. The percentage that would know that Shylocking relates to usury is pretty small. The percentage of that small percentage that would be aware Shylock was a Jew is much smaller. The percentage of that much smaller percentage of a small percentage that would know there was something antisemitic about the terms is miniscule.
So your argument is that people who have never ever heard the word before and don't actually speak English would of course use the word without knowing what it meant or referred to. Right. Good thinking.

Hint: whether one is familiar with the source material is irrelevant to whether the word is used as a slur. Do you think many people have actually read Uncle Tom's Cabin? Does that mean that if they call someone an "Uncle Tom" it has no derogatory content?
   896. Slivers of Maranville descends into chaos (SdeB) Posted: September 02, 2011 at 11:08 AM (#3915288)
But as for them being slurs, paddy wagon may rely on a stereotype, but not a negative one;


It still qualifies as bigotry anytime you apply a stereotype to an entire group, regardless of whether the stereotype is positive or negative.
   897. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: September 02, 2011 at 11:13 AM (#3915289)
It still qualifies as bigotry anytime you apply a stereotype to an entire group, regardless of whether the stereotype is positive or negative.


Right, like if I decline to enter a mathematics competition by saying, "The Chinese always win." That's both a positive and a bigoted comment.
   898. Misirlou's been working for the drug squad Posted: September 02, 2011 at 11:15 AM (#3915291)
Has this been brought up yet? I'm sure many orders of magnitude of people of a certain age think of him rather than the merchant of Venice.
   899. jack the seal clubber (on the sidelines of life) Posted: September 02, 2011 at 01:06 PM (#3915328)
Just came in late to this, but accusing Andy of anti-Semitism because of one offhand comment not directed at anyone of Jewish background seems a little strange, particularly given his political and anti-racist views expressed so many times here. Lighten up!
   900. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 02, 2011 at 01:16 PM (#3915335)
I don't think Andy is an anti-semite, but there's no question that "Shylock" is an ethnic slur that most people try to avoid (unless they're discussing the Merchant of Venice).
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