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With zombies ravaging the control room staff?
I hardly think so.
I do want to see Obama walk at a nice clip with Christie in tow.
So, just to be clear: it's your contention that the height of sea level has absolutely nothing to do with the amount of flooding caused by a storm surge?
Speaking of that -- I was just back up at Promontory Point in Lake Michigan on my lunch break, and the waves have gotten extremely impressive, I'd guess 20 feet at times. There are surfers out, most at the 57th Street Beach but a couple surfing by the Point itself. This seems astonishingly moronic as the Point is surrounded by a battered limestone seawall that features a lot of broken-off and half-submerged blocks. A successful ride will carry you into a rock and concrete face, while aborting a ride early might entail smashing into an underwater boulder. I mean, it's fine if you want to die, but it'd suck if someone drowned while trying to save you.
Snowshoe Mountain ski resort is sending out photos of its 18 inches of snow. So at least someone is really happy about this thing.
The reach of the storm continues to astonish.
To be clear, based upon my experience in the field - which includes having one of the foremost scholar of historical sea levels on my committee when I was a Ph.D. student, field trips to Barbados to drill corals used for paleo sealevel analysis, etc al, there's no evidence of a significant sea level rise in NYC (this is important, because relative sea level rise is not globally homogenous and differs depending on ocean circulation, isostatic rebound, etc. It's also more like 6", globally, in the last century, but who's counting). Sea level rise is also affected by natural warming, which makes up a significant minority of the warming from the 19th C to today, and more localized climate effects (i.e., warmth in greenland, dry weather in parts of antarctica, etc.) which may or may not be anthropogenic.
Of course, most of this has very little to do with your question, which is whether sea level height has a lot to do with surge. Of course, it does; of course, the effect is small. The surge last night was more than 2 feet higher than any other measured in the ~300 year record at NY Harbor, even if the entire 6" sea level rise since 1900 was anthropogenic (its not) and even if NY, locally, had observed a 6" sea level rise (it hasn't), then the sea level rise would only be responsible for 6" of the 13' storm tide. Last night's surge was emphatically not a anthropogenic phenomenon; only ignorant fools argue so, and those ignorant fools and their ridiculous assertions are the ones that allow the idiot deniers to stick around, because when you make stupid, ill-supported arguments and the deniers shoot it down, you increase the "creditability" of what they say.
Surfers do their thing at Fort Point in San Francisco all the time, and it looks equally crazy.
You have to really know what you're doing, and then maybe get killed anyway.
Because the climate system is so complex, people who study it (and are not political advocates are very conservative about making assertions.
Who was talking exclusively about NYC? My parents' house is in south Jersey, and the peak of the surge just missed clearing the top of the dunes in front of their house. If it had been another eight inches higher (or six inches, or even less), there's a good chance they'd be buying new carpets and pumping out the crawlspace.
Again, you may want to re-read what I wrote, because you seem to be arguing with a different person who said something else. I never said that the entire storm surge was a function of global warming, but simply that the increased sea levels that have resulted from global warming increased the height of the surge. Which they did. The fact that there were other factors (such as the tides) that also increased the surge does not in any way invalidate what I said.
I'm glad that you were able to insulate yourself against charges of partisanship by totally misrepresenting my position, though.
In DC, the storm sewers are connected to the regular sewage system, so when a storm overwhelms the system, you're more or less flushing your toilet directly into the Potomac. Drink up, down stream users.
I'd trust the experience and skills of a surfer in California far more than I would trust those of a surfer in Illinois.
I'm from Santa Cruz California and have surfed for most of my life. Hitting the rocks can be a pretty uncomfortable thing but not really life threatening. Anybody who paddled out into the big waves probably knew what they were doing. I've never met anybody from Illinois that surfed but have met people from Munich that surf quite well.
German surfing
Here's where I learned how to surf
Surprisingly few people actually hit the cliff. People die when they are in rocky areas and get swept off the rocks while the waves are big. That happens a couple times a year but surfing is pretty humbling and you build your way up.
I can remember being out there in the aftermath of a winter storm in the late 70's. All of the big rocks lining the north side of the point, including the topmost level, were coated in several inches of ice. Up on top of the point, concrete lampposts had a layer of ice on their north sides, all the way to the top. All of which tells you what the spray can do.
I also remember watching serious waves from the point, and I can't imagine how anyone could possibly surf them. These weren't long, predictable rollers like you see on an ocean shore. There were no long crests at all, just short sharp wave peaks popping up quickly and dropping back down quickly, with a the appearance of waves traveling in multiple directions.
as long as you make clear that you don't mean anthropogenic warming, sure.
Don't be so sure, I remember watching a documentary about a wave pool surfer from Arizona who went to Hawaii to surf the big waves on the North Shore and ended up winning a major tournament and the sister of his arch-rival, thanks to a little help from his friend Turtle.
I know that Charlie don't surf. Where does that put me on the knowledge spectrum?
Be a good time to be a bike mechanic too.
Anyone here know of a good alternative to LIPA's site for finding out about power outages? They basically just seem to be saying, "Yeah it's baffed, we're working on it."
That's not uncommon in the older areas of older cities and towns. That's the case here (Evansville, IN) and the local water/sewer utility is having to spend something like 200 million dollars to try and correct the situation. This was mandated by one or more sections of the federal government (not that it's a bad idea, many folks get their drinking water from the Ohio River); it is just ironic that no one seems that concerned about the situation in Washington.
Well, it's not like the DC Council is making sewer modernization a priority, either. I doubt Congress would overturn DC's spending more $$ in that area.
Not. Even. Close.
It got wet, and a couple of casino signs got minor dings.
A section of boardwalk - lower case b - by the inlet, not the Boardwalk, got tossed around. Sandy did the city a favor, as it was dilapidated.
CNN couldn't have offered a credible source because no credible source said so (and no, an NBC blog that made the mistake earlier is not a legit "source.")
And there are people out there who still say, "Oh, I don't see the point of newspapers anymore. I get all the information I need on the internet and TV."
be careful which "internet" you read...
Really? Because Congress has been so forthcoming in everything else?
be careful which "internet" you read...
Well, if you treat the internet/TV like the newspaper and wait a day or so you'll get a ton of information, much more than you ever would with a newspaper.
I believe Gov. Christie made the same claim on NBC this evening.
Maybe that's the way to get more aid for your state.
Really? Because Congress has been so forthcoming in everything else?
Outside of a few hot button issues, Congress doesn't really mess with the DC budget much any more, except for things like adding extra money for charter schools and scholarships. Sewer modernization isn't something Congree would prevent DC from spending its own money on.
Really? Because Congress has been so forthcoming in everything else?
Outside of a few hot button issues, Congress doesn't really mess with the DC budget much any more, except for things like adding extra money for charter schools and scholarships. Sewer modernization isn't something Congress would prevent DC from spending its own money on.
Christie said tonight at his press conference that AC was "not as bad as we feared."
But too late - Obama coming to AC on Wed.
You truly can't blame Obama's staff; last-minute planning, iconic city, bogus reports of devastation.
There is enough debris, leftover water, etc to make it work re photo op anyway. It's just nothing like the damage in the next island down, Ocean City, for example. Or even Seaside Heights an hour+ north, where Snookie once roamed the earth.
Bloomberg says not likely for 4-5 days
and PATH 7-10 days, is the estimate
those MIGHT be beaten, but it's grim all week almost certainly
Nets-Knicks in Brooklyn season opener Thurs should be seen by thousands, though.....
Storms (and weather in general) are caused mostly by temperature dis-equilibria. That is temperature differences causes large air masses to move around. The Temperature gradient is the energy source. This gradient is in 3 dimensions - including differences between land and water.
So my guess would be that it's not the warm vs. cold that could create storms, but possibly the rate of change of temperature - and probably more importantly - the spatial differential in the rate of change of temperature.
my dad goes to a.c. periodically and said what howie said, the boardwalk is not in the center of the action. the pier at seaside heights got ripped pretty severely.
be careful which "internet" you read...
Right, because newspapers certainly never make mistakes.
The congressional campaign manager who confessed to spreading falsehoods on Twitter during Hurricane Sandy has resigned from Christopher Wright's New York City congressional campaign.
Shashank Tripathi, under the guise of his Twitter handle @ComfortablySmug, sent out several pieces of misinformation during the worst of the storm Monday.
He is being blamed for spreading the now-widely debunked rumor that the New York Stock Exchange trading floor had been flooded with 3 feet of standing water. The rumor was eventually picked up by CNN and New York Magazine until NYSE officials shot it down.
In a message on his Twitter account late Tuesday, Tripathi apologized and offered his resignation on Wright's House campaign for the 12 th congressional district.
Tripathi was first outed by BuzzFeed.
"I wish to offer the people of New York a sincere, humble and unconditional apology," Tripathi wrote. "During a natural disaster that threatened the entire city, I made a series of irresponsible and inaccurate tweets."
Other rumors included a false report that power would be shut down in all of Manhattan and that the New York subway would be closed for the entire week.
########## can run, but they can't hide ...
word is Nets-Knicks game Thurs in BKN will be canceled any moment now
That would make for a much more interesting ride.
LGA (which does not have an official twitter that I can find) is flooded. Delta says it MIGHT be open tomorrow, but I'm not going to take the airline's word for it.
This is a portion of a pool reporter's news feed on riding in a helicopter today directly behind another helicopter - Marine One - that carried President Obama:
"After eight minutes in the air we appeared over the Atlantic City skyline, with the casinos rising along the Shore. Your pooler witnessed a soccer game going on and initially not a great deal of devastation. The Atlantic City boardwalk seemed in tact near the main drag by the casinos. North things got hairier."
other than making "intact" two words, yes.
.............
fyi, some Christie ad-libs in Sayreville today (Jon Bon Jovi's hometown), again off the pool feed. Even Democrats are eating it up:
In telling the governor about her situation, resident Deborah Decker said she didn’t want to be too much of a pain.
“Don’t worry,” Christie said. “I’m as big of a pain in the ass as anybody.”
He told a 95-year-old woman who recently had heart surgery: “I want you to relax. You had all that work done on your ticker, I don’t want you to get wound up.”
Kim Bosso introduced the governor to her son, who has cystic fibrosis. He has been cut off from his breathing machines since the power went out, and the utility company told her she’s not a priority case while her insurance won’t cover her if she goes to a hospital.
“This is my lawyer,” Christie said, introducing her to Charles McKenna, his chief counsel. “He’s going to take care of you.”
Or whack the hospital guys.
EDIT: rest of post redacted - forgot this wasn't the political thread.
Yeah, so that didn't happen.
No. The forecast held, though.
To the east, not so lucky. Dozens of collapsed building and homes under 2ft+ of snow. One friend of mine had 42 inches of snow with nearly 5ft drifts.
Presumably it will only be a problem once somebody gets blown up.
If they don't think gas leaks are a problem, do they think they're a solution?
Has nothing to do with the weather and everything to do with the fact that most of the airport is still underwater. You could fly a jet in, but you'd have a helluva time landing it and it probably wouldn't be ready to fly off anywhere else anytime soon.
Hell, no. I don't want to start liking the fat ####.
Christie with another masterful effort today, by ALL accounts, in Moonachie in the shadow of the Meadowlands Sports Complex (tidal flooding overwhelmed a couple of towns in Bergen County, although most of the worst is down the shore).
One elderly woman told Christie, "You my man!"
"And you're my lady tonight," he replied.
She walked away saying, "You should be the President."
THere are a lot of desperate people not getting any help, or it's coming in very slow. The reports I'm seeing are almost unbelieveable.
19 reported dead on Staten Island alone.
Some interesting background in another Times story:
Te impact of this event must be many times greater than 9/11 in terms of lost productivity going forward
Walking around town yesterday - there were some places with generators, and there were charging stations set up and FEMA had an 18 wheeler full of big ice bags. They were also giving out food at some places, had charging stations set up and the CVS was open. People who had power were had signes out "Free Wi-FI" - so it seemed people were pulling together pretty well. I did enjoy the fact that in an area where everyone is freaking out about getting gas, there were a good half-dozen National Guard trucks outside City Hall....all of them idling the engines.
People in my building were pretty well stocked - we even had a Halloween party for all the kids on Wednesday. Our building is one of the lucky ones - our power came back on last night. Took the bus in this morning - most of town still seemed dark.
Hopefully they can get power restored to more places - that plus getting more gas in should help with a lot of the area's recovery.
On Tuesday afternoon we walked around a bit and surveyed the damage. Lots of trees and branches down in our neighborhood, some of them on cars, and when you got closer to the West Side Highway you could see where there had been flooding (mud in the street, cars that had floated into the middle of the road) but the water had receded from most places and the cleanup had already started. One four-story apartment building on 8th Ave. had its facade completely torn off and you could see directly to the apartments inside, but supposedly nobody was hurt. We eventually walked up to Times Square -- below 26th St. on the West Side was totally dark, above 26th things were starting to come back online. We ended up having dinner by the Port Authority and catching a movie in Times Square before walking home by flashlight.
As of today, power is still out in our neighborhood and everywhere below 26th St. (on the East Side I think it's still out below 39th). Last night we saw the Freedom Tower and other parts of Tribeca lit up so I'm assuming part of downtown has electricity by now. The latest I've heard is that power should be restored by 11 p.m. Saturday night, although on the radio this morning I heard that it might be as early as tonight.
My office in Gramercy also lost power, and they are only allowing critical staff in to manage the strain on the emergency generators. My team has been working from a conference room in one of our lawyer's offices in midtown for the last few days which at least has power, water and Internet access. Business is still getting done with clients outside the city, but most clients in Manhattan have not been around given difficulty of getting here. My wife's office is open although very few people are in. She and I have been getting around by bicycle, showering at the New York Sports Club, and generally eating out before heading home each night. All in all, it's been pretty manageable but not something I would like to repeat anytime soon.
My parents in Westchester are in a similar situation. They haven't had power at home since Monday but they do have (cold) running water. Both of their offices are open though, so they have been going to work during the day. My father is diabetic but he has been able to keep his insulin refrigerated at work. The latest I heard was that they are supposed to have power back by the middle of next week, but hopefully it will be sooner.
I swear, the more I read and hear, the worse it sounds, almost post-apocalyptic. I mean, I heard about some guy pulling a gun in a gas line, that some people in certain areas might not get power back permanently for months, the National Guard had to get generators from a fashion show that was supposed to be next week, the Marines are supposed to be landing in New Jersey to help out, the NY aquarium (home of, yes, the Baby Walrus) is considering evacuating all of the animals (I can't imagine how you "evacuate" a shark)...
And this is just news I'm getting from TV and the internet. I have to imagine there's a parade of horribles that we aren't hearing about...
(Oh, and apparently the mistake by the lake is a Zombie)
Thanks Gamingboy. We got power back around 4 a.m. last night. My parents are still without power and it seems the biggest issue up there now is the lack of heat, as it's supposed to get into the high 30s tonight. But there are various relatives they can stay with if it gets too cold for them.
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