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Coming to a theator near you, this March.
If they make this absolutely idiotic deal, I will actively root for them to lose next year. I will take pleasure in the .235 batting average with negligible power Soriano will produce at Shea, and revel in the nasty articles the tabloids will produce taking Omar Minaya apart at the seams.
It would be a completely indefensible trade, just completely. Soriano would be a far, far worse player, and will probably cost more, than the guy they had in RF last year.
I'll stop now. Gak.
I suppose he'd rather make his his own bad trades than someone else's bad free agent signings. Full autonomy, indeed.
There's a name for girls like that, but what about GMs?
I swear to God, if this deal happens, I will kill Minaya.
Sam, I had the exact same thoughts on my blog.
Yes, I actually have a blog. In my defense it wasn't my idea. My girlfriend got it for me after I spent the hours of 2-4am on election night ranting to her about what a colossal disaster it was. That way, I wouldn't have to rant just to her. So for the past few days, I've had bit of fun posting. So now that I've pimped my blog, I think I'm ready for the final bit of the surgery where they turn me into a complete dork. Or did that just already happen?
Is there some way we could get this thread stickied to the top of the hot topics? Or maybe the Mets could have their own Sox Therapy that consists of only this thread? It doesn't look like the Mets Fan Self Congratulation Thread is going to be coming down the pipe anytime soon.
1) The non-contening Mets trading away a young potential stud for a 30 year old player
2) the player is an anti-sabermetric god: no walks, low obp, lots of speed.
3) moving the player out of position, from a hard defensive where he's valuable to an offensive position where he's mediocre.
or more subtely:
4) acquiring a player from an excellent right-handed hitters park to stick him in Shea which is particularly tough on right-handed pull hitters and not anticipating any decline.
I guess it's really the combination that gets me but any of these taken alone would be enough to give me doubts.
Can we just start rooting for the Red Sox? The picked Billy Traber off waivers. I would have liked to add Billy Traber.
(from the Times) The Mets have become frustrated with Reyes's recurring leg injuries and are aware that Oakland and Texas could use a middle infielder.
It's never too late to get Marco Scutaro back.
Because Oakland and Texas are looking to unload high-priced contracts and do not want any in return, the Mets may have to include Reyes if they are going to reach an agreement.
So because they want to dump salary, we have to give them a top young player. We have lots of other players who are cheap. They're just not that good. So what the heck, let's just overpay. Man, these guys are sharp as a tack.
See, this thread, I think, it's sort of like a time capsule of Mets stupidity.
Mets higher-ups are saying behind the scenes that no matter how desperate their starting pitching situation may seem, they are determined not to trade what they are calling their "core players." Those whom they define as "core" or "untouchable," in the usual baseball parlance, apparently include shortstop Jose Reyes, pitcher Aaron Heilman and minor-league pitchers Mike Pelfrey and perhaps Phil Humber in addition to Wright, Milledge and outfielders Gomez and Martinez. "No way," a Mets higher-up said when asked if they'd trade Milledge, Heilman or even Pelfrey for Willis.
I love Omar.
(Sung to the tune of Eleanor Rigby)
Ah, look at all the injured pitchers
Ah, look at all the injured pitchers
Victor Zambrano picks up what's left of the arm and the tendon he had.
Heard him just scream.
Waits in the clubhouse, seeing the ghost of Scott Kazmir that gnaws at him still.
He was traded for???
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did Scott Kazmir go?
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where do our prospects go?
Rick Peterson, "fixing" the arms of a pitcher no one could stand.
He never came near
To make the trade working.
Darning poor Vic in the pen when there's nobody there.
The fans didn't care.
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did the quick fix go?
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did 10 minutes fly?
Victor Zambrano died on the mound and was buried when next spring came.
Released just the same.
Rick Peterson, wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the mound.
Careers weren't saved.
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did Scott Kazmir go?
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where do our prospects go?
and yeah! it doesn't look like they'll do anything really stupid!
though i'd totally be behind a pelfrey for willis deal.
God, reading this thread really takes me back. And not just to July 04, but to way before than that. As good as this year has been, I think its even sweeter because of all the things we had to go through to get here.
It is still astonishing to me that people just assume Kazmir will get hurt, when the Mets traded him for a guy who already is having arm problems. I mean, I know Zambrano's issues are supposed to be minor. But how often does supposedly minor "tendonitis" end up with Tommy John surgery just a few short months later?
It really was true, remember? The whispers about Kazmir being an arm injury waiting to happen. And, hey, he may still. But to use that as a part of the reason . . . I mean, at least acquire a durable guy in exchange if that's your rationale. But, nooooooooo. Turns out Zambrano's been hurting every start since the deal, all leading up to blowing out his arm Sunday. Wow. Talk about walking head on into the deep end of the river.
I nominate this, though for the Worst Prediction Made on the Thread:
You guys will be over this by April.
Harold, Post # 285. Not quite, Harold. Not quite!
(sung to the tune of Kashmir)
(opens with the driving beat of Mets fans rhythmically pounding their heads into the wall... dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...)
Oh I'm the one who taught the big three A's
Stars to pitch so well
I am a tutor of both Tam and Haynes
I made them all excel
Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...
I sit with elders on the New York Mets
Under the mango tree
Whatever Pedro or Tom Glavine get
All credit goes to me
Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...
Tampa's boy had a 1.44 WHIP
And still had a working arm
The wild card was almost within our grip
Time to strip mine the farm
Whoahhhh, ohhhhh, whoahhhh, ohhh, ohhh
Ooooooh! I been coachin'
Who could see this approachin'?
Ooooh, decision makin'
Who knew Z's arm was achin'?
Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...
Thought I'd seen what to fix
In 10 minutes, maybe six
Now he needs a shoulder blade
As I scan this wasted trade
Trying to find, trying to find a good spinnnnnn...
Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...
Yup, here you are. Still Mets fan. Fans of the best team in the NL (by far, IMO), the team with a decent shot of dominating the NL and all of MLB for the next 4-8 years. Yeah, you'd rather still have Kazmir, but don't call my post "The Worst Prediction in the Thread" by quoting one sentence out of context, when I basically called everything perfectly!. (I'm not crediting this to any skill; who was I to know in August '04 that the Mets would sign Beltran and Pedro, etc.).
And since I don't think the sentence you quoted captures my message, here's the entire post:
You guys are frickin' pathetic.
I'll admit that the trades were horrible. It must be painful to lose guys like Kazmir and Huber. But to consider changing your allegiances? To pick and choose teams to root for? You'd think the Mets dealt Wright and Reyes for Neifi!
When I was 16 years old, my team (the Werner Padres) gave away two borderline HOFers in their primes. Kazmir and Huber are not Sheffield and McGriff. I lived. I've seen better days. Things turned out OK.
You guys will be over this by April.
I meant that you would be over this pain and back to loving baseball and your team. Not that you'd forget about the deal. Don't bend my words.
Yup, here you are. Still Mets fan. Fans of the best team in the NL (by far, IMO), the team with a decent shot of dominating the NL and all of MLB for the next 4-8 years. Yeah, you'd rather still have Kazmir, but don't call my post "The Worst Prediction in the Thread" by quoting one sentence out of context, when I basically called everything perfectly!. (I'm not crediting this to any skill; who was I to know in August '04 that the Mets would sign Beltran and Pedro, etc.).
You know what, forget all this. This is all analytical, and has nothing to do with my post #285 in this thread (though it does refer to other commentsI wrote on this site then). I think, when you look at my post 285, it's pretty clear that I was talking about being a fan. When I said, "You guys will be over this by April," that "this" meant "looking for another team to root for because I'm no longer a Mets fan."
And the fact that you're posting in this thread is proof that I was completely right about that, in post 285, no matter what you think about my analysis at the time or since.
What I'm saying is that that can't test your "fandom" more than 1992-94 as a Padre fan. Seriously, you guys have never had an ownership group that has intentionally gutted the team. I mentioned the HOFers in 285, but it was so bad that we were dumping middle relievers (look at Rich Rodriguez and Jose Melendez; Craig Lefferts was no great shakes at that point, but he was a franchise stalwart and even he was dealt).
Seriously, if "Black Friday" is the worst of the last 20 years, you guys have it so good you don't know it.
Sheff and McGriff? they aren't HOFers. *MAYBE* Sheff. The Crime Dog? Not a chance.
Ever heard of Tom Seaver, Harold?
But the fact does remain: we weren't over it by April, and if Kazmir does become what he's showing a lot of signs of becoming, we won't ever really get over it. Real fans don't ever really; we always think of the "what ifs."
Who woulda thought that these two trades would have even ended up worse than the Mets' worst fears (Kaz & Huber for Jorge Julio?), and yet the Mets are kickin' butt this season. Go figure.
This is a very important point, of course. What it does show is that a high-resource team, properly managed, can overcome even a devastatingly bad move like this in relatively short order if it is aggressive about it, and just moves forward rather than fixating on trying to "fix" what it did wrong in the first place. As Mets' fans, we are fortunate that we root for a team that did not have to be set back for a generation by such a horrendous deal (and how badly it turned out), and (credit where it's due) that ownership moved so quickly and decisively to change what needed to be changed to right the direction of the franchise after this debacle. We'll never have Kazmir, but having the lessons of Kazmir may end up being almost as valuable.
Kind of like how "The Fumble" led -- almost directly -- to the New York Football Giants winning Super Bowl XXI, right, Sam?
I had almost forgotten how [lousy] I felt those days.
Ever heard of Tom Seaver, Harold?
Nice job of looking at my original post, where I specifically called them "borderline" HOFers. I empathize with you Mets fans about the Seaver trade, but I'll throw Robbie Alomar into the pot as well.
But the fact does remain: we weren't over it by April, and if Kazmir does become what he's showing a lot of signs of becoming, we won't ever really get over it. Real fans don't ever really; we always think of the "what ifs."
Sigh. I'll say it again; you're misundertanding what I meant by getting "over it". I never said you'd get over the trade; I said you gous would get over the phase where you gave up on the Mets or baseball in general.
As for what-ifs, you can't guess the number of hours I've spent imagining more of Alomar, Winfield, Ozzie, and Raines in same lineup as Gwynn.
Again.
Thanks for opening this thread back up too. I have a feeling it should stay that way.
UPSIDEEEEE
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