Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, July 30, 2004

The Official Mets Fan Self-Immolation Thread

For those of you who can’t bear to continue. (Thanks to Gold Star For Robot Boy for the idea.)

The definitely immoral Eric Enders Posted: July 30, 2004 at 11:44 PM | 353 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: mets

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 4 of 4 pages  < 1 2 3 4
   301. Old Matt Posted: October 29, 2004 at 03:59 PM (#943856)
I'm just perpetuating this thread's immortality.
   302. billyshears Posted: November 11, 2004 at 05:01 AM (#961384)
In light of this, I think this thread needs to be bumped.
   303. Old Matt Posted: November 11, 2004 at 05:08 AM (#961387)
No Untouchables, The 2004 New York Mets Offseason!

Coming to a theator near you, this March.
   304. Sam M. Posted: November 11, 2004 at 05:23 AM (#961397)
In meeting with the Rangers yesterday at the Ritz-Carlton, Minaya discussed a deal that would send infielder Jose Reyes to the Rangers for second baseman Alfonso Soriano, who would be moved to rightfield.

If they make this absolutely idiotic deal, I will actively root for them to lose next year. I will take pleasure in the .235 batting average with negligible power Soriano will produce at Shea, and revel in the nasty articles the tabloids will produce taking Omar Minaya apart at the seams.

It would be a completely indefensible trade, just completely. Soriano would be a far, far worse player, and will probably cost more, than the guy they had in RF last year.

I'll stop now. Gak.
   305. pyrite Posted: November 11, 2004 at 05:34 AM (#961407)
If it's any consolation, it doesn't seem like Minaya is jumping to hand Kris Benson a big contract.

I suppose he'd rather make his his own bad trades than someone else's bad free agent signings. Full autonomy, indeed.
   306. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: November 11, 2004 at 05:43 AM (#961418)
Does God hate us?
   307. Roadblock Jones Posted: November 11, 2004 at 05:44 AM (#961420)
"Omar is easy to talk with," Cashman said. "He's not afraid of making a move and making a decision."

There's a name for girls like that, but what about GMs?
   308. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: November 11, 2004 at 05:49 AM (#961424)
Be afraid, be very afraid

I swear to God, if this deal happens, I will kill Minaya.
   309. billyshears Posted: November 11, 2004 at 06:36 AM (#961478)
If they make this absolutely idiotic deal, I will actively root for them to lose next year. I will take pleasure in the .235 batting average with negligible power Soriano will produce at Shea, and revel in the nasty articles the tabloids will produce taking Omar Minaya apart at the seams.

Sam, I had the exact same thoughts on my blog.

Yes, I actually have a blog. In my defense it wasn't my idea. My girlfriend got it for me after I spent the hours of 2-4am on election night ranting to her about what a colossal disaster it was. That way, I wouldn't have to rant just to her. So for the past few days, I've had bit of fun posting. So now that I've pimped my blog, I think I'm ready for the final bit of the surgery where they turn me into a complete dork. Or did that just already happen?
   310. Starlin of the Slipstream (TRHN) Posted: November 11, 2004 at 06:36 AM (#961479)
Given this new development for the Mets I have one question:

Is there some way we could get this thread stickied to the top of the hot topics? Or maybe the Mets could have their own Sox Therapy that consists of only this thread? It doesn't look like the Mets Fan Self Congratulation Thread is going to be coming down the pipe anytime soon.
   311. J. Cross Posted: November 11, 2004 at 06:48 AM (#961503)
Whether it's Green or Soriano, Minaya sures seems to want a mediocre right fielder. A good GM is supposed to be able to get a mediocre right fielder on the cheap, not trade Jose Reyes for one. As far as primer mets fan horror I'm not sure what the most ridiculous aspect of that deal is. Here are some possibilities:

1) The non-contening Mets trading away a young potential stud for a 30 year old player

2) the player is an anti-sabermetric god: no walks, low obp, lots of speed.

3) moving the player out of position, from a hard defensive where he's valuable to an offensive position where he's mediocre.

or more subtely:

4) acquiring a player from an excellent right-handed hitters park to stick him in Shea which is particularly tough on right-handed pull hitters and not anticipating any decline.

I guess it's really the combination that gets me but any of these taken alone would be enough to give me doubts.

Can we just start rooting for the Red Sox? The picked Billy Traber off waivers. I would have liked to add Billy Traber.
   312. pyrite Posted: November 11, 2004 at 07:00 AM (#961512)
What if Reyes was part of a package for Barry Zito?

(from the Times) The Mets have become frustrated with Reyes's recurring leg injuries and are aware that Oakland and Texas could use a middle infielder.

It's never too late to get Marco Scutaro back.
   313. billyshears Posted: November 11, 2004 at 07:57 AM (#961596)
I love this bit from the Times piece:

Because Oakland and Texas are looking to unload high-priced contracts and do not want any in return, the Mets may have to include Reyes if they are going to reach an agreement.

So because they want to dump salary, we have to give them a top young player. We have lots of other players who are cheap. They're just not that good. So what the heck, let's just overpay. Man, these guys are sharp as a tack.
   314. Flynn Posted: November 11, 2004 at 08:07 AM (#961605)
The Mets are aggravating. Very aggravating.
   315. The Wilpons Must Go (Tom D) Posted: December 11, 2004 at 06:30 AM (#1012370)
I thought it a good idea to have this thread ready, if necessary.
   316. Lawa Posted: December 11, 2004 at 01:47 PM (#1012858)
Thanks for reviving this Tom. Considering that the Moises Alou pot is on the front burner and about to its bubble over; we might need it.
   317. Rob Base Posted: July 23, 2005 at 07:18 PM (#1493846)
Well, so far hardly any of this is as bad is it seemed. Can I trade Reyes for Zito now?
   318. Banta Posted: July 30, 2005 at 05:43 AM (#1509688)
This is my first post in this thread! I'm just getting ready for the Manny trade.

See, this thread, I think, it's sort of like a time capsule of Mets stupidity.
   319. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: July 30, 2005 at 05:48 AM (#1509698)
ITS BAAAAAAAACK!
   320. NTNgod Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:05 AM (#2010674)
Bumped, by popular demand.
   321. NTNgod Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:17 AM (#2010679)
Furthermore, the companion thread to this one, The Great Trade Deadline Thread of 2004 is here.
   322. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:20 AM (#2010680)
We're in first place and Minaya ain't trading the future.

Mets higher-ups are saying behind the scenes that no matter how desperate their starting pitching situation may seem, they are determined not to trade what they are calling their "core players." Those whom they define as "core" or "untouchable," in the usual baseball parlance, apparently include shortstop Jose Reyes, pitcher Aaron Heilman and minor-league pitchers Mike Pelfrey and perhaps Phil Humber in addition to Wright, Milledge and outfielders Gomez and Martinez. "No way," a Mets higher-up said when asked if they'd trade Milledge, Heilman or even Pelfrey for Willis.

I love Omar.
   323. Sam M. Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:21 AM (#2010682)
Victor Zambrano

(Sung to the tune of Eleanor Rigby)

Ah, look at all the injured pitchers
Ah, look at all the injured pitchers

Victor Zambrano picks up what's left of the arm and the tendon he had.
Heard him just scream.
Waits in the clubhouse, seeing the ghost of Scott Kazmir that gnaws at him still.
He was traded for???

All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did Scott Kazmir go?
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where do our prospects go?

Rick Peterson, "fixing" the arms of a pitcher no one could stand.
He never came near
To make the trade working.
Darning poor Vic in the pen when there's nobody there.
The fans didn't care.

All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did the quick fix go?
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did 10 minutes fly?

Victor Zambrano died on the mound and was buried when next spring came.
Released just the same.
Rick Peterson, wiping the dirt from his hands as he walks from the mound.
Careers weren't saved.

All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where did Scott Kazmir go?
All the wailing Mets' fans.
Where do our prospects go?
   324. The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott) Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:34 AM (#2010687)
oh man. that gave me the chills.

and yeah! it doesn't look like they'll do anything really stupid!

though i'd totally be behind a pelfrey for willis deal.
   325. I Love LA (OFF) Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:36 AM (#2010688)
That was tremendous, Sam. Bravo.

God, reading this thread really takes me back. And not just to July 04, but to way before than that. As good as this year has been, I think its even sweeter because of all the things we had to go through to get here.
   326. Sam M. Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:57 AM (#2010698)
Freakish that I wrote this on August 3, 2004 . . . .

It is still astonishing to me that people just assume Kazmir will get hurt, when the Mets traded him for a guy who already is having arm problems. I mean, I know Zambrano's issues are supposed to be minor. But how often does supposedly minor "tendonitis" end up with Tommy John surgery just a few short months later?

It really was true, remember? The whispers about Kazmir being an arm injury waiting to happen. And, hey, he may still. But to use that as a part of the reason . . . I mean, at least acquire a durable guy in exchange if that's your rationale. But, nooooooooo. Turns out Zambrano's been hurting every start since the deal, all leading up to blowing out his arm Sunday. Wow. Talk about walking head on into the deep end of the river.

I nominate this, though for the Worst Prediction Made on the Thread:

You guys will be over this by April.

Harold, Post # 285. Not quite, Harold. Not quite!
   327. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: May 09, 2006 at 05:59 AM (#2010699)
Kazmir
(sung to the tune of Kashmir)

(opens with the driving beat of Mets fans rhythmically pounding their heads into the wall... dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...)

Oh I'm the one who taught the big three A's
Stars to pitch so well
I am a tutor of both Tam and Haynes
I made them all excel

Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...

I sit with elders on the New York Mets
Under the mango tree
Whatever Pedro or Tom Glavine get
All credit goes to me

Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...

Tampa's boy had a 1.44 WHIP
And still had a working arm
The wild card was almost within our grip
Time to strip mine the farm

Whoahhhh, ohhhhh, whoahhhh, ohhh, ohhh

Ooooooh! I been coachin'
Who could see this approachin'?
Ooooh, decision makin'
Who knew Z's arm was achin'?

Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...

Thought I'd seen what to fix
In 10 minutes, maybe six
Now he needs a shoulder blade
As I scan this wasted trade
Trying to find, trying to find a good spinnnnnn...

Dun dun dun, dun, dun dun dun...
   328. Gold Star - just Gold Star Posted: May 09, 2006 at 07:06 AM (#2010720)
Here's what I posted in the immediate aftermath of the Kazmir trade:
I just spoke with someone quite familiar with the D-Rays, in a professional sense. He said Zambrano "will pitch a no-hitter one of these days. ... He'll walk 21 guys doing it, but he'll get that no-hitter."
Amusing.
   329. Dr. Nick Riviera Posted: May 09, 2006 at 09:48 AM (#2010742)
Who woulda thought that these two trades would have even ended up worse than the Mets' worst fears (Kaz & Huber for Jorge Julio?), and yet the Mets are kickin' butt this season. Go figure.
   330. Benji Posted: May 09, 2006 at 10:11 AM (#2010744)
When I see us nitpicking the roster (i.e. Valentin) I want those people transported to a parallel universe where Jim Duquette is still the Met GM. This thread should serve as a ghastly reminder of the idiocy of the Phillips-Duquette era and how far Minaya (and also, to be fair, the Wilpons for allocating the $$ for Pedro and Beltran) have taken this team. A real contender and an fun team to watch without backstabbing weasels, 350 pound first basemen, listless Robbies and the Inspirational Art Howe.
   331. Benji Posted: May 09, 2006 at 10:30 AM (#2010747)
And Sam, that was a masterpiece. You ought to become the Songwriting Professor of Tin Pan Alley.
   332. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: May 09, 2006 at 10:46 AM (#2010750)
Hey Sam, you're one of my favorite posters, but you totally took my post out of context. I didn't mean to imply that the Kazmir deal was not worth getting upset over, but rather that you guys were still sitting pretty (despite that monumental blunder). Many Mets fans here were so apoplectic at the time that they were going to give up on the Mets and change allegiances to another team. Have any of you followed through?

Yup, here you are. Still Mets fan. Fans of the best team in the NL (by far, IMO), the team with a decent shot of dominating the NL and all of MLB for the next 4-8 years. Yeah, you'd rather still have Kazmir, but don't call my post "The Worst Prediction in the Thread" by quoting one sentence out of context, when I basically called everything perfectly!. (I'm not crediting this to any skill; who was I to know in August '04 that the Mets would sign Beltran and Pedro, etc.).

And since I don't think the sentence you quoted captures my message, here's the entire post:

You guys are frickin' pathetic.

I'll admit that the trades were horrible. It must be painful to lose guys like Kazmir and Huber. But to consider changing your allegiances? To pick and choose teams to root for? You'd think the Mets dealt Wright and Reyes for Neifi!

When I was 16 years old, my team (the Werner Padres) gave away two borderline HOFers in their primes. Kazmir and Huber are not Sheffield and McGriff. I lived. I've seen better days. Things turned out OK.

You guys will be over this by April.


I meant that you would be over this pain and back to loving baseball and your team. Not that you'd forget about the deal. Don't bend my words.
   333. J. Cross Posted: May 09, 2006 at 10:55 AM (#2010751)
Sam, you were certainly right about Reyes, Wright, Heilman and Kazmir being worth more than Nick Johnson, Soriano and the other Yankees. It's impressed how well these Mets truned out... if only we still HAD Kazmir.
   334. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: May 09, 2006 at 10:56 AM (#2010752)
Hey Sam, you're one of my favorite posters, but you totally took my post out of context. I didn't mean to imply that the Kazmir deal was not worth getting upset over, but rather that you guys were still sitting pretty (despite that monumental blunder). Many Mets fans here were so apoplectic at the time that they were going to give up on the Mets and change allegiances to another team. Have any of you followed through?

Yup, here you are. Still Mets fan. Fans of the best team in the NL (by far, IMO), the team with a decent shot of dominating the NL and all of MLB for the next 4-8 years. Yeah, you'd rather still have Kazmir, but don't call my post "The Worst Prediction in the Thread" by quoting one sentence out of context, when I basically called everything perfectly!. (I'm not crediting this to any skill; who was I to know in August '04 that the Mets would sign Beltran and Pedro, etc.).


You know what, forget all this. This is all analytical, and has nothing to do with my post #285 in this thread (though it does refer to other commentsI wrote on this site then). I think, when you look at my post 285, it's pretty clear that I was talking about being a fan. When I said, "You guys will be over this by April," that "this" meant "looking for another team to root for because I'm no longer a Mets fan."

And the fact that you're posting in this thread is proof that I was completely right about that, in post 285, no matter what you think about my analysis at the time or since.
   335. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: May 09, 2006 at 11:22 AM (#2010756)
Man, the more I think about my post 285, the more upset I become. I know you Mets fans went through some tough times on Black Friday, and on occasion since then.

What I'm saying is that that can't test your "fandom" more than 1992-94 as a Padre fan. Seriously, you guys have never had an ownership group that has intentionally gutted the team. I mentioned the HOFers in 285, but it was so bad that we were dumping middle relievers (look at Rich Rodriguez and Jose Melendez; Craig Lefferts was no great shakes at that point, but he was a franchise stalwart and even he was dealt).

Seriously, if "Black Friday" is the worst of the last 20 years, you guys have it so good you don't know it.
   336. Foghorn Leghorn Posted: May 09, 2006 at 12:28 PM (#2010783)
What I'm saying is that that can't test your "fandom" more than 1992-94 as a Padre fan. Seriously, you guys have never had an ownership group that has intentionally gutted the team. I mentioned the HOFers in 285

Sheff and McGriff? they aren't HOFers. *MAYBE* Sheff. The Crime Dog? Not a chance.

Ever heard of Tom Seaver, Harold?
   337. Rob Base Posted: May 09, 2006 at 01:13 PM (#2010803)
McGriff's chances got a lot better when Raffy tested positive for roids.
   338. Sam M. Posted: May 09, 2006 at 02:15 PM (#2010849)
Harold -- sorry! I meant that to come off more kidding than it did.

But the fact does remain: we weren't over it by April, and if Kazmir does become what he's showing a lot of signs of becoming, we won't ever really get over it. Real fans don't ever really; we always think of the "what ifs."

Who woulda thought that these two trades would have even ended up worse than the Mets' worst fears (Kaz & Huber for Jorge Julio?), and yet the Mets are kickin' butt this season. Go figure.

This is a very important point, of course. What it does show is that a high-resource team, properly managed, can overcome even a devastatingly bad move like this in relatively short order if it is aggressive about it, and just moves forward rather than fixating on trying to "fix" what it did wrong in the first place. As Mets' fans, we are fortunate that we root for a team that did not have to be set back for a generation by such a horrendous deal (and how badly it turned out), and (credit where it's due) that ownership moved so quickly and decisively to change what needed to be changed to right the direction of the franchise after this debacle. We'll never have Kazmir, but having the lessons of Kazmir may end up being almost as valuable.
   339. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 09, 2006 at 02:27 PM (#2010860)
Hell, I didn't get over Ryan + -for-Fregosi until the Mets beat Ryan in the '86 NLCS...
   340. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 09, 2006 at 02:29 PM (#2010863)
We'll never have Kazmir, but having the lessons of Kazmir may end up being almost as valuable.


Kind of like how "The Fumble" led -- almost directly -- to the New York Football Giants winning Super Bowl XXI, right, Sam?
   341. Sam M. Posted: May 09, 2006 at 04:20 PM (#2010983)
Bump.
   342. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 09, 2006 at 04:47 PM (#2011017)
What a difference a year & 1/2 makes.

I had almost forgotten how [lousy] I felt those days.
   343. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: May 15, 2006 at 07:47 AM (#2020440)
Sheff and McGriff? they aren't HOFers. *MAYBE* Sheff. The Crime Dog? Not a chance.

Ever heard of Tom Seaver, Harold?


Nice job of looking at my original post, where I specifically called them "borderline" HOFers. I empathize with you Mets fans about the Seaver trade, but I'll throw Robbie Alomar into the pot as well.

But the fact does remain: we weren't over it by April, and if Kazmir does become what he's showing a lot of signs of becoming, we won't ever really get over it. Real fans don't ever really; we always think of the "what ifs."

Sigh. I'll say it again; you're misundertanding what I meant by getting "over it". I never said you'd get over the trade; I said you gous would get over the phase where you gave up on the Mets or baseball in general.

As for what-ifs, you can't guess the number of hours I've spent imagining more of Alomar, Winfield, Ozzie, and Raines in same lineup as Gwynn.
   344. Harold can be a fun sponge Posted: May 15, 2006 at 07:49 AM (#2020441)
And Sheffield and McGriff, in the case of Alomar.
   345. DCW3 Posted: May 15, 2006 at 08:28 AM (#2020443)
Unless he runs into some further steroid trouble, Sheffield is going to sail into the Hall of Fame.
   346. Moe Greene Posted: July 10, 2009 at 10:33 PM (#3249472)
I'm not a Mets fan, but it's hard to pass up an opportunity to post in a fun thread like this.
   347. Tripon Posted: July 10, 2009 at 10:35 PM (#3249483)
EDGE. EDGE. EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDGE.
   348. CraigK Posted: July 10, 2009 at 10:40 PM (#3249498)
Jeff Francoeur, your starting right fielder.
   349. Old Matt Posted: July 10, 2009 at 10:40 PM (#3249500)
The Day The Music Died.

Again.
   350. Banta Posted: July 10, 2009 at 11:00 PM (#3249557)
I'll just quote what I said a few years ago:
See, this thread, I think, it's sort of like a time capsule of Mets stupidity.


Thanks for opening this thread back up too. I have a feeling it should stay that way.
   351. CajoleJuice Posted: July 11, 2009 at 12:41 AM (#3249750)
I wish I was around for this thread originally.

UPSIDEEEEE
Page 4 of 4 pages  < 1 2 3 4

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

BBTF Partner

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
tshipman
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogThe Players' Tribune: Jeter: The Clean Up
(2 - 4:23am, Oct 31)
Last: zachtoma

NewsblogSend Alex Gordon! | FiveThirtyEight
(83 - 4:02am, Oct 31)
Last: Maxwn

NewsblogNo, Alex Gordon wouldn't have scored an inside the park home run
(135 - 3:35am, Oct 31)
Last: baxter

NewsblogFull Count » Red Sox sign Koji Uehara to 2-year contract
(10 - 2:49am, Oct 31)
Last: Dan

NewsblogNewest Hall of Fame Candidates Announced
(52 - 2:35am, Oct 31)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogOT: Monthly NBA Thread - October 2014
(630 - 2:05am, Oct 31)
Last: madvillain

NewsblogOT: NBC.news: Valve isn’t making one gaming console, but multiple ‘Steam machines’
(1021 - 1:53am, Oct 31)
Last: The Anthony Kennedy of BBTF (Scott)

NewsblogJoe Maddon is to become Cubs manager, sources say
(108 - 1:49am, Oct 31)
Last: Sunday silence

NewsblogOT: Politics, October 2014: Sunshine, Baseball, and Etch A Sketch: How Politicians Use Analogies
(4785 - 12:40am, Oct 31)
Last: Joe Kehoskie

NewsblogAngell: The Best
(17 - 12:33am, Oct 31)
Last: odds are meatwad is drunk

NewsblogThings we learned from the 2014 playoffs
(11 - 12:17am, Oct 31)
Last: bobm

NewsblogMadison Bumgarner, World Series legend - McCovey Chronicles
(103 - 12:15am, Oct 31)
Last: SoSHially Unacceptable

NewsblogFielding Bible
(2 - 11:24pm, Oct 30)
Last: Russlan is fond of Dillon Gee

NewsblogOT:  October 2014 - College Football thread
(544 - 11:11pm, Oct 30)
Last: Lance Reddick! Lance him!

Hall of MeritMost Meritorious Player: 1960 Discussion
(9 - 10:22pm, Oct 30)
Last: Chris Fluit

Page rendered in 0.3949 seconds
53 querie(s) executed