Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Friday, September 13, 2019

Theo Epstein speaks for all Cubs fans as he sums up the frustrating season to date

If you were listening to 670 The Score Thursday morning, nobody would blame you if you confused Theo Epstein for a random Cubs fan.

But that wasn’t Bob from Berwyn chatting with David Haugh and Mike Mulligan about the infuriating 2019 season the Cubs have played to date — it was the president of baseball operations for the club, who told it like it is and pulled no punches.

Like usual, Epstein was measured in his response, but his frustration was palpable, as he explained how there are simply no excuses for the way the Cubs have played this year and especially lately.

He did not point to the recent string of injuries as a reason or use any other potential excuse in the books to explain away the fact that this team woke up Thursday morning tied with the Milwaukee Brewers for the second Wild-Card spot.

On the bright side, there’s now an opening in Boston…..

QLE Posted: September 13, 2019 at 12:24 AM | 44 comment(s) Login to Bookmark
  Tags: broadcasts, cubs, theo epstein

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

   1. Red Voodooin Posted: September 13, 2019 at 01:49 AM (#5878845)
Not all Cubs fans! This Cubs fan is grateful to watch my team play meaningful September baseball and though that can mean frustration (especially the last week) that's what matters to me most as a fan.

Theo has been a negative nancy about the state of the Cubs since the end of last year, and most Cubs fans have been too. Unlike the fans, Theo is responsible for the outcome. But baseball is like this. We should expect it. I think Thed's record since 2016 is certainly mixed, but there's at least as much good to point to as bad.

My only real quibble with the FO is the way they've handled Maddon. He should have been extended long ago. The consistent subtext of Maddon being on some supposed hot-seat all season long has not been fun, nor has it been logical or necessary.
   2. What did Billy Ripken have against ElRoy Face? Posted: September 13, 2019 at 05:43 AM (#5878851)
Theo has been a negative nancy about the state of the Cubs since the end of last year
So what would Positive Pete say about this team’s underperformance, other than “Hey, at least it’s not worse underperformance!”?
   3. TomH Posted: September 13, 2019 at 07:11 AM (#5878853)
"Hey, at least we're not in the same division as LA or ATL!"
   4. Scott Lange Posted: September 13, 2019 at 08:40 AM (#5878859)
So what would Positive Pete say about this team’s underperformance, other than “Hey, at least it’s not worse underperformance!”?

1- It's not underperformance relative to preseason projections (which seems like the logical thing to measure against.)
2- Sometimes teams underperform. Sometimes they overperform. C'est la vie.
3- We're still in the playoffs as of today, so, ya know, things could be worse.
4- We won the World Series a couple years ago, so, ya know, things could be worse.
   5. . Posted: September 13, 2019 at 08:56 AM (#5878862)
Theo Epstein has never even been close to the GM his fanboy contingent thinks he is. More generally, the cult of the GM is just a weird and bizarre way to consume and discuss sports. Fantasy GMing taking over the narrative of sports is arguably the worst development in 21st century sports.
   6. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 09:21 AM (#5878872)
My only real quibble with the FO is the way they've handled Maddon.


You don't have a quibble with them keeping Addison Russell and trying to whitewash his reputation?
   7. Tin Angel Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:04 AM (#5878881)
Fantasy GMing taking over the narrative of sports is arguably the worst development in 21st century sports.


...says the guy who started critiquing Farhan Zaidi two months after he took over for the Giants, and entered every Giants related thread to let everyone know what moves he would have made by now.
   8. How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ? Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:07 AM (#5878882)
Did he complain about the poor results from FA pitching and utility player signings? Because he should get to the bottom of that...
   9. . Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:12 AM (#5878885)
says the guy who started critiquing Farhan Zaidi two months after he took over for the Giants, and entered every Giants related thread to let everyone know what moves he would have made by now.


Exact opposite. I said he'd done a bad job to date -- he had -- and people said things like "What was he supposed to do?" My response wasn't suggesting moves, it was "Get better players, that's his job."

But in any event, that isn't the "fantasy GMing" or the "cult of the GM" I'm talking about, as should have been clear to anyone engaging rather than snarling or trolling.
   10. Charles S., looking 4 band-aids instead of dreams Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:21 AM (#5878890)
Wait, are you saying that simply proclaiming "Get better players" is a more interesting or better way to discuss baseball than analyzing and suggesting moves that the GM could make? I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one. Fantasy GMing as you call it is the most fun thing about being a fan other the watching the games themselves (and during a re-build often even more fun). Otherwise it's just yelling at clouds to get out of the way of the big beautiful sun.
   11. PreservedFish Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:39 AM (#5878893)
Obviously we fans can get carried away with the fantasy GM'ing from time to time. SBB's sneering condescension, though, that's beyond reproach.
   12. Tom Nawrocki Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:41 AM (#5878895)
I look forward to the day when I can be disappointed by a season in which my team is on track to reach the postseason for the fifth consecutive year.
   13. . Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:43 AM (#5878896)
OK, I'm going to try to preliminary sketch this one out. "Fantasy GMing" and the "cult of the GM" obviously doesn't include things like talking about the players a team is or isn't acquiring, which is something baseball fans and narrators/curators have talked about since the beginning of baseball. It's things like:

1. Treating GMs as "auteurs" akin to movie directors, with unique "philosophies" that cover the entire mise-en-scene of the organization.(*)
2. Using metrics that no fan should care about and constantly harping on them over and over and over again: payroll size, dollars per win, payroll flexibility, bad contracts doled out, farm system rankings, etc., etc.
3. Stretching and straining to demonstrate how the player transactions the GM makes fits into their overall "philosophy"
4. Puffing up GMs who adhere to saber-favorite "philosophies" and denigrating ones that do not. (Here, the perfect example is pretending that the Giants are better off with "smart" Farhan Zaidi than "stupid" Brian Sabean when Brian Sabean consistently won.)
5. Constantly belaboring and blathering on about "rebuilds" and "teardowns" and "tanks" and using inane terminology like "So and so GM is the architect of Team A's rebuild."
6. Constantly falling for the entirely false conceit that tomorrow's playoff games are somehow more important than today's.

(*) Talking in those terms about something like baseball (!) is pretty much the height of pomposity.

   14. . Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:44 AM (#5878897)
Obviously we fans can get carried away with the fantasy GM'ing from time to time.


It's way beyond "time to time." It's pretty much "all the time." It's taken over 21st century sports narrative.
   15. How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ? Posted: September 13, 2019 at 10:49 AM (#5878902)
Man, the 2016 World Series was sweet.... but with apologies to most Giants fans, I'll admit that the round 1 series win that year had its charms.
   16. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:23 AM (#5878906)
My only real quibble with the FO is the way they've handled Maddon.

Really? There's a ton of stuff to quibble with the last few years.

He should have been extended long ago. The consistent subtext of Maddon being on some supposed hot-seat all season long has not been fun, nor has it been logical or necessary.

As for this part, maybe the people that think he should be fired have gone too far*, but when exactly was the FO supposed to extend him? 2015/2016** were when he arguably did his best work, but he had a 5 year deal so that's too soon. During/after 2017 - again, multiple years left on his deal, but I could have maybe seen an argument at that time; for better or worse, none of the FO guys got an extension until during the last year of their current deal***. Sometime during the 2018 season? Because I don't think anyone could think giving him an extension at the end of last year or at any point during this year were ideal times, either from a performance or PR perspective.

The subtext of Maddon being on the hot seat is relevant only to this season, but at least publicly Maddon has embraced that so I fail to see how that's some insult or disservice to him. There's clearly a disconnect between Maddon and the FO, and I fail to see why the FO would be obligated to extend him for something he did a few years back.

I think everyone - the FO, the manager, the players - should be evaluated on their performances. Maddon's year isn't over yet, so I'm personally not arguing for or against keeping him. There are good arguments on both sides, but I just flat out disagree with anyone who feels too strongly about either at this point.

*I have, on occasion, called for his firing, but those were always heat of the moment responses to some egregious things/games.
**Ignoring the many relevant first/second guessing he rightfully deserved for the purposes on this discussion.
***Theo/Jed both had 5 year deals they signed end of 2011, I believe they both signed new 5 years one towards the end of the 2016 season. Maybe it's a Ricketts thing, I dunno.
   17. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:27 AM (#5878907)
Maddon's year isn't over yet, so I'm personally not arguing for or against keeping him. There are good arguments on both sides, but I just flat out disagree with anyone who feels too strongly about either at this point.

Is there any argument that he's not a good manager? Every manager makes mistakes.

I think fans grossly over-estimate the likely quality of replacements. Most managers are bad. If you have a decent one, I think it's pretty much always a mistake to let him go.
   18. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:30 AM (#5878908)
Is there any argument that he's not a good manager? Every manager makes mistakes.

There are arguments he's not as good as he was before - I don't think players are the only ones who see their skills decline with age. There's arguments that he's not been keeping up with the times and certain things may have passed him by. Like I said there's arguments him and the FO now have philosophical and practical differences that may not be bridgeable. There's also arguments that he might not be the right manager for the current team.
   19. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:49 AM (#5878912)
There are arguments he's not as good as he was before - I don't think players are the only ones who see their skills decline with age.

I can buy that, but the comparison shouldn't be how good he is versus himself 5 years ago, it's how good is he vs. the potential replacements.

There's arguments that he's not been keeping up with the times and certain things may have passed him by.

That I'm less sympathetic too. I'm pretty sure if John McGraw or Casey Stengel or Walter Alston came back from the dead, they'd be excellent managers.

Like I said there's arguments him and the FO now have philosophical and practical differences that may not be bridgeable. There's also arguments that he might not be the right manager for the current team.

Those sound more like excuses the FO gives when they decide they rather hire a first time manager for $1M rather than pay Maddon $5M.

I'm pretty sure the Yankees move from Girardi to Boone was purely about saving $3M. It already cost them in the playoffs last year, and likely will do so again this year.
   20. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:51 AM (#5878913)
Maddon's an ####### and I've derived considerable enjoyment from all the agita over his job status this year.

It'd be nice if they got rid of him and Russell, so that I could go back to not actively rooting against the Cubs again.
   21. . Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:53 AM (#5878915)
I think fans grossly over-estimate the likely quality of replacements. Most managers are bad. If you have a decent one, I think it's pretty much always a mistake to let him go.


Of course, obviously, and the idea that field managers are best cast as middle-manager fungible puppets of the FO's "philosophy" is another manifestation of the weirdo Cult of the GM.

It's comical that the FO is now scapegoating Maddon when lucking bass-ackwards into him is a massive reason the team has had the recent run of success. When left to its own devices, the FO went with ... LOL ... Dale Sveum and Rick Renteria.
   22. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:56 AM (#5878917)

It'd be nice if they got rid of him and Russell, so that I could go back to not actively rooting against the Cubs again.


wait, you're a Pirate fan, aren't you always actively rooting against the Cubs? I'd root against the Red Sox if their rotation was George Washington, Mother Theresa, and Albert Schweitzer.
   23. How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ? Posted: September 13, 2019 at 12:04 PM (#5878922)
I've pretty consistently been in the pro-Maddon camp.... but I must admit, this month has.... shaken my faith. Unlike last year, where the Cubs were perfectly cromulent in September - the Brewers just played out of their minds and outright seized the division from them - we're closer to "they're collapsing" this September.

Still time left - and yeah, injuries piling up.... but this one feels different.
   24. Bring Me the Head of Alfredo Griffin (Vlad) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 12:09 PM (#5878925)
wait, you're a Pirate fan, aren't you always actively rooting against the Cubs?


I'll root against anyone who's playing against the Pirates while they're playing against the Pirates, but I mostly just focus on pulling for my own team, rather than wishing for calamities to befall others. Like, it'd just be really shitty to hope for someone like Yelich to get hurt - he seems like a decent guy, regardless of what uniform he happens to be wearing, and you want to win because you were the better team (or at least played better on that day), not because something terrible happened to somebody else.

Not to mention that the Pirates aren't going to finish anywhere more ambitious than fourth place for the next couple of years at least. So if it's clearly not going to be us, why wouldn't I have a preference among the other teams that it might be? I'd rather it were us, but given that it's not going to be us, I don't have some kind of obligation to pretend that some of the alternatives aren't worse than others.
   25. Moses Taylor, aka Hambone Fakenameington Posted: September 13, 2019 at 12:33 PM (#5878930)
That I'm less sympathetic too. I'm pretty sure if John McGraw or Casey Stengel or Walter Alston came back from the dead, they'd be excellent managers.

I'm not just talking about closer usage, or lineup optimization, or defensive shifting.

Those sound more like excuses the FO gives when they decide they rather hire a first time manager for $1M rather than pay Maddon $5M.

I'm pretty sure the Yankees move from Girardi to Boone was purely about saving $3M. It already cost them in the playoffs last year, and likely will do so again this year.


After 2017, Maddon was given the ok to fire the pitching/hitting coaches who he inherited (but supported retaining). After 2018, the FO fired the hitting/pitching managers (well, the pitching guy resigned for personal reasons) and replaced them with their own guys.

---

I don't disagree with the larger point about a replacement, especially if it's a guy with significantly less experience (or success). Again, I haven't made up my mind yet, but I can make a much more convincing argument to myself to move on than bring him back again.

---

Of course, obviously, and the idea that field managers are best cast as middle-manager fungible puppets of the FO's "philosophy" is another manifestation of the weirdo Cult of the GM.

As opposed to the cult of the manager and all that Maddon brings?

There's no scapegoating here, he hasn't been fired. But you do you.
   26. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5878934)
Barring some decline from the team that was out-of-whack with its level of talent, I can't see any particular reason to revise the widely-held opinion that Maddon is one of the 2 or 3 best field managers in the game.
   27. Infinite Yost (Voxter) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 12:40 PM (#5878935)
I'm not just talking about closer usage, or lineup optimization, or defensive shifting.


Also, this is evidence that he's a good manager who takes his job seriously.
   28. snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster) Posted: September 13, 2019 at 12:43 PM (#5878936)
I'm not just talking about closer usage, or lineup optimization, or defensive shifting.


I'm pretty sure people are people, and a good people manager is a good people manager. In my career as a manager (22 years) I've observed virtually no difference between managing millennials, gen-X, or boomers.
   29. . Posted: September 13, 2019 at 01:11 PM (#5878943)
There's no scapegoating here,


Epstein's been scapegoating him since at least spring training, when he came out with that laundry list of silliness in the Athletic -- diaries for everyone who isn't playing, etc. -- at which right-perspectived people unleashed peals of laughter. He sounded barely the good side of a rubber room.
   30. Walks Clog Up the Bases Posted: September 13, 2019 at 01:57 PM (#5878952)
Maddon has definitely made some questionable moves (like batting Tony freaking Kemp in the leadoff spot this week, which was a page out of the Dusty Baker playbook). Overall, though, I don't see much sense in replacing him unless you're taking the "new manager lights a fire under the asses of his team" argument.

We've been over these things a lot in the Cub-centric threads and I think it's safe to say that a lot of their struggles or perceived under-performance the last two seasons is a combination of young guys not continuing to progress (or regressing) and a lot of money being tied up in pretty bad contracts.
   31. The Duke Posted: September 13, 2019 at 03:51 PM (#5878994)
I dont understand GMs popping off at this time of year. Can’t this wait until the day after the season ends ? How does this help with the goal ? If a Gm thinks detonating a stink bomb is motivational for professional ballplayers he’s in the wrong job.

Now, if he is sending a signal to Red Sox owners that he wants back in......no, that’s still wrong
   32. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: September 13, 2019 at 04:47 PM (#5879010)
I'm pretty sure the Yankees move from Girardi to Boone was purely about saving $3M. It already cost them in the playoffs last year, and likely will do so again this year.

Why don't people like Boone? The team's had a ton of injuries and they're playing .650 ball.
   33. Brian C Posted: September 13, 2019 at 05:26 PM (#5879018)
The only question that matters w/r/t Maddon is "who will they replace him with?" Maddon has proven beyond all doubt that he's an exceptional manager. But it's always possible that they can get someone who's better!

But deciding to fire him in a vacuum is just plain stupid. He's obviously far better than replacement level, so finding someone better will actually be kinda hard and the decision to move on entails considerable risk that the next guy is substantially worse. And even if they succeed and find someone better, because Maddon is one of the better managers out there, the actual margin of how much better the next guy will be is virtually certain to be pretty small.

Also, I continue to believe that the "Millenials for Dummies" thing was a troll, and a funny one at that. I mean ... come on.
   34. How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ? Posted: September 13, 2019 at 05:31 PM (#5879020)
One thing unmentioned - Maddow is MLB’s highest paid manager (timed with Bochum at 6m).... if he wants a raise, well.... 6-7m, you are talking about a pretty decent MR salary.... or really, even 3/4 of a Morrow DL season!
   35. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: September 13, 2019 at 05:45 PM (#5879026)
But deciding to fire him in a vacuum is just plain stupid.

They'll probably do what the Yankees did to Torre: give him a lowball offer and expect him to walk.
   36. Jose is an Absurd Time Cube Posted: September 13, 2019 at 07:37 PM (#5879050)
Why don't people like Boone? The team's had a ton of injuries and they're playing .650 ball.


Because he is bad at making pitching changes. Seriously that seems to be the complaint. But as you may have noticed baseball fans love to ##### about the manger.
   37. Brian C Posted: September 13, 2019 at 07:59 PM (#5879052)
That's a pretty legit complaint, though.
   38. Walt Davis Posted: September 13, 2019 at 11:35 PM (#5879076)
With Maddon, it's more that I no longer see what it is that he really brings to the table that's positive.

We all gripe about pitching changes but his handling of the staff has annoyed me since the 2016 playoffs. A starter going well gets yanked for an inferior reliever after 88 pitches; a starter going very poorly with a rested pen is left in to give up 10 runs because apparently we have to get at least 90 pitches out of him. He has a player usage schedule that he seems to stick to even as circumstances change. It seems to take less than a week for him to fall in love with a player but 4 weeks of obvious failure to lose faith. Baez has become a much better player under Maddon's watch but no other position player has. Carl Edwards had a lot of talent -- that Joe could never get him to harness. Mike Montgomery was a pretty good pitcher in my opinion but last year Joe seemed more comfortable with Randy Rosario as LHR. I don't know how much is Theo and how much is Joe but every year we spend a lot of money on a "stable, veteran" pen only to replace half of it at the deadline with more "stable vets" ... who sometimes then get re-signed for the next season only to have to be replaced again.

All of that weirdness was perfectly fine for 2015-17 for all sorts of reasons: (a) we won big time; (b) some of that weirdness worked out quite well and almost none of it seemed to do regular harm; (c) the team seemed to be "loose," having fun, confident. We don't get to see behind the managerial curtain so we have little to rely on other than stuff like (b) and (c) to assess those opaque parts of managing and, when they're going well, we assume the guy is good at the stuff we don't see. But the Cubs of the last two years have moved in fits and starts; they have seemed to play very tight at the end of the season. Some of that tightness seems to flow into (or, worse, out of) Joe himself as he often seems to scramble desperately to try to win today's game.

The end of the season and the playoffs get too much attention of course but that's when Joe's negative all seem to build up. By season's end, we're lucky if he has faith in even three relievers ... yet, possibly because it's the saber-y thing to do, he still pulls the starter in the 5th inning. Then because he has no faith in any of his relievers, it's a desperate scramble for match-ups ... which half the time make little sense. Sitting at home, I get the sense that Joe knows he's getting lucky every time he wins a close game -- hopefully not an impression the players are getting.

In the grander scheme of things, the Cubs' roster, especially on the position player side, was built young with an eye to development. Instead most of those guys have spun their wheels or gone backwards. The coaches were unable to fix Heyward's offensive slide, they couldn't keep Happ from falling apart, Almora became an embarrassment this year, they never taught Russell to hit, they seemed to think Schwarber should hit 300 or something, Bryant is going backwards (maybe due to small injuries piling up). Theo's "strategy" was built around having a strong position player core, across the entire field, under team control through their primes ... and bringing that to fruition is the job of the manager and the staff. It hasn't really happened, at best every win balanced with a loss. Maybe we over-rated their talent to begin with (a very real possibility, we are fanboys) or maybe it's all due to things beyond a manager's control (injuries, Russell's violence, basic randomness) but it certainly hasn't gone according to plan.

To put that most bluntly -- Kris Bryant was a player who seemed well on his way to the HoF and that, without question, I wanted around through at least his early 30s (money aside). For the last two years he's been a good not great player and I've got my doubts that the Cubs should re-sign him when the time comes. For ages 23-25, Bryant had essentially the same WAR as Thomas, Raines, Rickey, Schmidt, Allen and Jr. For ages 25-27 ... well, let's just say that Ryan Howard, Greg Vaughn, Gaetti, Luzinski, Griffey Sr and even George Foster weren't quite what I had in mind. (Note Allen, McCovey, Killebrew, David Wright were also pretty similar at these ages, it's not a guarantee of things to come.) Again, I have no idea if Maddon plays any role in that but I'd certainly want an answer to that question if I was Theo/Ricketts.

Now, completely agree that, on balance, I have nothing to complain about over the last 5 years. I further fully admit that I have no idea if there is a better manager available. I further fully admit that I will complain about any and all future Cub managers. But whatever magic he brought to the table in 2015-17 is no longer evident on the field while his wierdnesses seem to be getting worse. I'm fine if they get rid of him, I'm fine if they keep him -- just forget I said that last bit if they keep him because I am gonna hit the roof with his first 5th inning pitching change or 10-run starter outing next year (whichever comes first).
   39. Brian C Posted: September 14, 2019 at 12:11 AM (#5879080)
A starter going well gets yanked for an inferior reliever after 88 pitches; a starter going very poorly with a rested pen is left in to give up 10 runs because apparently we have to get at least 90 pitches out of him. He has a player usage schedule that he seems to stick to even as circumstances change. It seems to take less than a week for him to fall in love with a player but 4 weeks of obvious failure to lose faith.

I confess that I can't think of a lot of examples of these things.

I mean, a few weeks ago Lester was pulled and I remember chatter here (including myself) that he should have pitched longer. But then we learned he was recovering from the flu and pulled himself. IIRC there was a similar situation with Darvish, maybe a week later, where he begged out of the game after a relatively low number of pitches (but 7 IP). Seems this gripe goes back to a few games with Hendricks years ago but I haven't seen a lot of this in the last couple years that I recall.

Same with taking a long time to fall out of love with obvious failures. Who do you mean? I remember a lot of griping here about how he was going to play CarGo everyday but that didn't materialize. There was some talk about that when Lucroy came on too, and same deal there. In general, during his tenure guys have not been given a huge leash to suck (and 4 weeks isn't really even that long to begin with).

I mean, I don't know. I'd never say that he doesn't have his quirks and every now and again I get irritated with him too. But the perspective here is just lacking, I feel. One subpar year* and it's all "what does he even bring to the table???" It just seems like a ridiculous way to think. Especially since they're still in the playoff race! Two months from now we could all be celebrating, for crying out loud, but people reading this thread would think that the Cubs have cratered if they didn't know better.

*-don't even try running the 95 win team last year at me as "subpar"
   40. ReggieThomasLives Posted: September 14, 2019 at 01:58 AM (#5879086)
Here, the perfect example is pretending that the Giants are better off with "smart" Farhan Zaidi than "stupid" Brian Sabean when Brian Sabean consistently won.)


Consistently? I thought Sabeans genius was that he mixed in 7 losing seasons along with 8 playoff appearances in 22 years. Helped keep the farm system stocked for those very good teams he built. And his charm was smacking Pythagoras around most years, at least until the last few years.
   41. ReggieThomasLives Posted: September 14, 2019 at 02:01 AM (#5879087)
A starter going well gets yanked for an inferior reliever after 88 pitches;


After 88 pitches and twice through the lineup, isn’t a rested reliever usually better than the starter? And isn’t the season 162 games?
   42. bunyon Posted: September 14, 2019 at 07:32 AM (#5879091)
Let’s say they win the wild card game this year.

Will that make the 2019 season better than the 2018 season?
   43. Dag Nabbit at ExactlyAsOld.com Posted: September 14, 2019 at 08:52 AM (#5879092)
A starter going well gets yanked for an inferior reliever after 88 pitches; a starter going very poorly with a rested pen is left in to give up 10 runs because apparently we have to get at least 90 pitches out of him.

This is the sort of thing literally every manager does. They all start looking to the pen when a pitcher approaches 100 pitches. And a guy scuffling it allowed to last a little longer than he should, in part to avoid to the 'pen to early. (When I say "the sort of thing literally every manager does" - I say that assuming you know that your points are overblown. For example, in Maddon's tenure, there have been a total four times a starting pitcher has allowed 10 runs in a game. Two of those were Jason Hammel in 2016. The other two, FWIW, were both Lester - once in 2017, and an 11-run outing last month). As for pulling a guy too early, that's really just Hendricks.

Theo's "strategy" was built around having a strong position player core, across the entire field, under team control through their primes ...

Why is strategy in quotes here It explicitly WAS the strategy - and one that the team made clear many times.

The whole thing reads more like a vent/rant than a good analysis of Maddon. I mean, I get that. We all have the need to vent/rant at times, but that's what it read like.
   44. Tin Angel Posted: September 14, 2019 at 12:38 PM (#5879108)
Here, the perfect example is pretending that the Giants are better off with "smart" Farhan Zaidi than "stupid" Brian Sabean when Brian Sabean consistently won.


Not that there is any point in arguing with you, since no matter what you come back to the conclusion that you were definitely right, but-

1) Brian Sabean stepped down, he no longer wanted the responsibilities.

2) Please point me to the people saying "We are better with smart Zaidi!" Because no one is saying that, you imagined it so you could (constantly) have this argument in which you create a strawman, people point out how no one is saying what you think they are, and you conclude that you were right, Zaidi is def. bad because people think he's smart.

3) You are comparing the track record of someone who was GM for 18 years (much of that time being a laughingstock), with someone who has been "GM"...for 11 months now. In 2008 you were talking about how great Sabean was, right? And you do understand how difficult it would be for Zaidi to win three World Series in 11 months? Or to be a "consistent" winner when he hasn't even been in charge for one full season yet?

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

 

<< Back to main

News

All News | Prime News

Old-School Newsstand


BBTF Partner

Dynasty League Baseball

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
Randy Jones
for his generous support.

Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Hot Topics

NewsblogOT - NBA thread (pre-season)
(722 - 9:19pm, Oct 23)
Last: TFTIO is building his own mealworm farm

NewsblogOMNICHATTER! for the 2019 World Series
(254 - 9:18pm, Oct 23)
Last: Bote Man sez Deivi is MoY

NewsblogMLB umpire Joe West suing former All-Star Paul Lo Duca for claiming he took bribes
(23 - 8:57pm, Oct 23)
Last: Cowboy Popup

NewsblogAstros Staffer's Outburst at Female Reporters Illustrates MLB's Forgive-and-Forget Attitude Toward Domestic Violence
(280 - 8:42pm, Oct 23)
Last: snapper (history's 42nd greatest monster)

NewsblogOT- Soccer Thread- October 2019
(219 - 8:23pm, Oct 23)
Last: Mefisto

NewsblogAstros enter World Series against Nationals as heaviest favorites since 2007
(52 - 8:09pm, Oct 23)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogMLB.com: Who Will Make Hall of Fame From 2019 World Series
(93 - 8:05pm, Oct 23)
Last: John DiFool2

Gonfalon CubsRegrets
(59 - 7:09pm, Oct 23)
Last: Misirlou doesn't live in the restaurant

NewsblogCatch-All Pop Culture Extravaganza (October 2019)
(554 - 6:22pm, Oct 23)
Last: PreservedFish

NewsblogHow Popular Is Baseball, Really?
(3 - 2:53pm, Oct 23)
Last: Barry`s_Lazy_Boy

NewsblogPrimer Dugout (and link of the day) 10-23-2019
(7 - 2:53pm, Oct 23)
Last: Sweatpants

NewsblogJuan Soto blasts historic home run - just as his hitting coach guaranteed
(14 - 2:44pm, Oct 23)
Last: Kiko Sakata

NewsblogZimmerman full circle with HR trot for Nats in World Series
(1 - 2:35pm, Oct 23)
Last: Joey B.

NewsblogLeft Out: Astros 1st WS team minus lefty pitcher since 1903
(11 - 2:07pm, Oct 23)
Last: How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ?

NewsblogCubs reportedly had second interview with David Ross
(23 - 2:06pm, Oct 23)
Last: How can it be QPQ if Zonk Says it isn't a QPQ?

Page rendered in 0.6135 seconds
46 querie(s) executed