Pearl Jam sucks.

Well, there's a sure way to get SJ and Vinay into the thread.

And a decade from now in the Chicago Tribune:

10 years
2 winning seasons
Countless ulcers
Infinite regret

"Foundation to be named later"?

That is the greatest charity name ever.

The round up to "10 incredible years" is odd to me.

It's definitely a nice gesture, though. Theo had to be taking a chance that on the flip side of his classy goodbye is a horrible, personal hatchet job.

Pearl Jam sucks.

wrong

The round up to "10 incredible years" is odd to me.

He worked for the Sox from 2002-2011. Only nine years as the GM, but the first one as the asst GM (or whatever title he had) should reasonably count.

When someone asks you how long you've been at your current job do you only answer with the time in your current title?

Classy gesture. It's good to see someone in Boston taking the high road

He was with the Sox for the 2002 season? I thought he had been brought in as an outsider.

*EDIT*

The ever-reliable Wikipedia sez:

Former Padres President Larry Lucchino became president and CEO of the Red Sox on November 25, 2002, and hired Epstein to work under him.

My grubby fingers only go to nine here.

If it were up to me, I would call it "The Foundation To Be Named 'The Foundation Formerly Known as Prince' Later".

I've always been more fond of Juan Luis Pedro Philippo DeHuevos Epstein than Theo Epstein.

Erik - The 11/25/02 date is the date Theo became GM. Lucchino was part of the ownership group that bought the team and took over in February of 2002 and Theo came then. From the Sox' media guide;

"Larry Lucchino was named President/CEEO of the Red Sox at the closing of the purchase of the team in February, 2002."

and re: Theo;

"...he was appointed Boston's Assistant General Manager in March, 2002."

Just to add to 12, my recollection is that Theo was heavily credited with being the driving force behind the Sox' acquisition of Alan Embree from San Diego during that 2002 season. Can't source that anywhere though.

Hmm, I don't want to doubt Wikipedia, but that doesn't sound right. The Henry-Warner-Luchino group purchased the team in the winter of 2001-02. It was - get this - a very drawn out process and didn't became official until right around the start of spring training 2002. Duquette operated as lame duck GM that year doing awful things (to some stathead know it alls) like waste money by signing Johnny Damon, who was coming off his terrible year in Oak.

Duquette and a couple others were immediately fired and Mike Port was named interim GM. The new ownership group brought in a small number of baseball ops people from SD (Luchino connection) and Florida (Henry people). I'm 99% sure Epstein was one of those coming from SD.

The wiki page makes it sound like Epstein was hired as a GM as an outsider, but as I recall Epstein was with the Sox in Nov of 2003 negotiating the compensation for Beane until Beane balked out. At that point, with Epstein already in the org for a one year, they turned to Epstein as the GM after his one year apprenticeship in Boston.

Alrgiht, gonna check my memory by digging up my 2002 Media Guide. One minute....

Well he wasn't in the 2002 one which was a last minute rush job. But the 2003 one has the wiki line about being named the GM on Nov 25, 2002 but adds a parenthetical "eight months after he was hired as asst GM."

So, that's 1 for me, 0 for wiki.

And 10 years in Boston for Epstein.

Ah well beaten to the punch by Jose. Slow typer.

would be better if he replaced "Go Sox." with "Cya in the World Series"...

No thanks to Bud Selig? What an ingrate.

Well done. This is all made easier, in my opinion, by Ben Cherington. I think he'll be excellent. And to Red Sox fans: If our team isn't going to win the World Series in a given year, can you really be upset if the Cubs win it? Don't baseball fans pretty much have to root for the Cubs in a World Series against anybody except for your personal favorite team?

Well done. This is all made easier, in my opinion, by Ben Cherington. I think he'll be excellent. And to Red Sox fans: If our team isn't going to win the World Series in a given year, can you really be upset if the Cubs win it? Don't baseball fans pretty much have to root for the Cubs in a World Series against anybody except for your personal favorite team?

Speaking for Cardinals fans, allow me to say:

####, no.

Epstein has almost always shown solid, common-sense PR smarts, and this is another example.

To me, the interesting question is whether Ricketts has given him an open checkbook to go after Fielder/Pujols, Reyes, and Wilson, since it will take some time to build up the Chicago farm system. I assume so.

Don't baseball fans pretty much have to root for the Cubs in a World Series against anybody except for your personal favorite team?

Maybe if Dan Snyder owned the opposing team, but otherwise you're ####### nuts.

I get Cardinal fans disliking the Cubs, I don't see why anyone else would but to each his own.

Epstein has almost always shown solid, common-sense PR smarts, and this is another example.

No question but this is a pretty regular thing in Boston now. Mo was the first one I remember doing it, Bledsoe did it, Nomar did it, I think a few others have done so as well.

No question but this is a pretty regular thing in Boston now. Mo was the first one I remember doing it, Bledsoe did it, Nomar did it, I think a few others have done so as well.

Running people out of town with hatchet columns, so that they have to turn around and take out full page adds in your paper, is the new market inefficiency.

Pearl Jam sucks.

wrong

This.

The preferred reference: Pearl Jam blows.

No question but this is a pretty regular thing in Boston now

It is a pretty regular thing in a lot of places. But it is still one of those basic things these guys should remember to do.

I get Cardinal fans disliking the Cubs, I don't see why anyone else would but to each his own.

Well, for me, it's wishing my (well-run) team had the revenue advantages the Cubs squander annually and the (for the most part) loutish fans they draw to my team's stadium. Why are baseball fans supposed to like them by default?

I get Cardinal fans disliking the Cubs, I don't see why anyone else would but to each his own.

White Sox fans would also be perfectly justified in wanting a Cubs loss.

Hypothetical for Chisox fans: Cubs vs Yankees. What do you do?

Well done. This is all made easier, in my opinion, by Ben Cherington. I think he'll be excellent. And to Red Sox fans: If our team isn't going to win the World Series in a given year, can you really be upset if the Cubs win it? Don't baseball fans pretty much have to root for the Cubs in a World Series against anybody except for your personal favorite team?

Between the two Sox teams, I've heard enough talk of "curse-breaking" to last a lifetime. I'll save the Cubs "curse-breaking" for the next generation.

Well, for me, it's wishing my (well-run) team had the revenue advantages the Cubs squander annually and the (for the most part) loutish fans they draw to my team's stadium. Why are baseball fans supposed to like them by default?

Couldn't you make an argument that the crowds most MLB teams draw aren't necessarily accurate representations of what its average fan is like? I know the Wrigley patrons have a reputation as being more interested with partying than the proceedings on the field. But between the Cub fans I know personally and fans on sites such as this one, it seems unfair to paint the Cub fanbase with such a broad stroke.

I know the Wrigley patrons have a reputation as being more interested with partying than the proceedings on the field.

I'll point out that fans at Wrigley don't do the wave, or that beachball volley thing, both of which were popular at Fenway back in the day.

To quote Harry Caray: "They do the wave at Fenway? I thought they had more class than that."

Everytime he comes back to Boston, I hope they boo him and Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh.

Don't baseball fans pretty much have to root for the Cubs in a World Series against anybody except for your personal favorite team?

No. America made that mistake back in 2004 with the Red Sox, and we've regretted the insufferable monster we created ever since.

I'll point out that fans at Wrigley don't do the wave, or that beachball volley thing, both of which were popular at Fenway back in the day.

Back in the day? I think they still do them now, or did until very recently.

Cubs fans have been more interested in partying than the action on the field because the partying has been more interesting than the action on the field, with only a couple exceptions. Cubs fans have no problem paying attention when the Cubs are actually worth watching.

Hypothetical for Chisox fans: Cubs vs Yankees. What do you do?

Pray for a blizzard that moves west to east?

Theo had to be taking a chance that on the flip side of his classy goodbye is a horrible, personal hatchet job.

Has to make him look even better, right? There's nothing like magnanimity in the face of obloquy.

By and large, the players themselves have borne the brunt of the criticism. Epstein and the rest of the front office, including ownership, has gotten hardly at any and Francona has only gotten it by inference (he should have reined the deviant behavior in more).

This whole reality drama is idiotic.

The truth is, Theo wanted more power and a bigger job. He has ever since he and Lucchino butted heads in 2005 and Epstein briefly quit. At that time, John Henry made Theo stick with baseball operations and Lucchino stick with baseball business operations.

There was no chance for further advancement in Boston, so taking the Cubs President of Baseball Operations position was a perfect situation for Epstein.

As for Francona, his veterans let him down. Whenver that happens, you trade the bad influences or fire the manager. There were too many players that had gone to the dark side, so Francona was deemed the scapegoat.

No. America made that mistake back in 2004 with the Red Sox, and we've regretted the insufferable monster we created ever since.

As a Cubs fan, I have to say that I perfectly well understand this line of reasoning. I wouldn't root for the Cubs either if I didn't have to.

Speaking for Cardinals fans, allow me to say:

####, no.

And speaking as a Cubs fan who considers the Red Sox and Yankees as evil twins, I don't expect them to root for the Cubs.

I get Cardinal fans disliking the Cubs, I don't see why anyone else would but to each his own.

Hell, I do. It's one thing for a team to be perennially incompetent, but to be that way and jerks about it is another thing entirely. The players haven't stopped whining since Bartman, and every year the team feels the need to scapegoat a player or two. I used to enjoy seeing the Cubs play in out of town venues, but in the 2000s it became embarrassing to see how they behaved.

And fact is, I want them to hate the Cubs. I just want them to do it for the right reason: because they wipe the floor with the rest of the league.

Francona has only gotten it by inference (he should have reined the deviant behavior in more)

Where have you been in the last two weeks? They said that Francona likes to have sex with fish!

Tomorrow's headline: Popeye's thanks Red Sox players with full-page ad in Globe

To quote Harry Caray: "They do the wave at Fenway? I thought they had more class than that."

Nothing says class like Harry Caray, that's for sure.

Well done. This is all made easier, in my opinion, by Ben Cherington. I think he'll be excellent. And to Red Sox fans: If our team isn't going to win the World Series in a given year, can you really be upset if the Cubs win it? Don't baseball fans pretty much have to root for the Cubs in a World Series against anybody except for your personal favorite team?

Not just no, but #### no.

And to even ask such a question much less word it in the way you did illustrates one reason why "anybody" shouldn't root for them: the navel-gazing assumption that most people, even relatively disinterested, "generic" baseball fans, don't have a reason to hate your team even if it's not at the expense of their teams. FFS, even most Yankees and Mets fans (IOW, the most entitled, navel-gazing on earth) have learned to avoid tactless rhetorical questions like that.

"Most people" are sick of hearing about the curse, sick of the self-pity and --

It's one thing for a team to be perennially incompetent, but to be that way and jerks about it is another thing entirely. The players haven't stopped whining since Bartman, and every year the team feels the need to scapegoat a player or two. I used to enjoy seeing the Cubs play in out of town venues, but in the 2000s it became embarrassing to see how they behaved.

-- sick of the assholish attitude which is bad enough coming from a successful franchise, but insufferable coming from a historically futile but financially-bullying franchise. Added to this is the fact that the climate now among most people in the country, baseball fans included, is very populist, yet the team you idiotically assume "anybody" should root for is correctly seen as the rich, white ppl's team of the two in your town, with bleachers full of upper middle class drunks and boxes full of vapid, wealthy criminal class Chads and Trixies. Your team is 29th or 30th on the list of franchises who could be called an everyman's/everyfan's/people's team; only a true Cubs fan could mistake their own sick-####, sado-masochist love of the shittiest baseball franchise on earth as something "anybody" could or would share. Jesus ####### Christ. In reality, not only does no one like the Cubs but Cubs fans, but no one respects them, and a great many actively hate them.

BTW, speaking not just as a Cardinals fan, but a baseball fan, thanks a #######, you Nazi Child Molesters, for making World Series season ALL ABOUT YOU and your pathetic team's acquisition of a general freakin manager.

Hypothetical for Chisox fans: Cubs vs Yankees. What do you do?

Well, it goes without saying that we wouldn't cheer for either one. Insofar as we watched the games, it would be to root for things like wild pitches, baserunning mistakes, comically bad umpiring, and sudden callings by star players to leave baseball to better serve Our Lord and Savior, Haile Selassie.

A Cub victory would mean more to their fan base than a Yankee victory, so maybe the latter is the lesser evil - but then watching the Yankees lose is something that warms the hearts of baseball fans everywhere, and it might be petty to want to deprive them of that.

I don't know - the answer is probably different depending on whether you're still on the South Side, or a transplant like me. Cub fans are much more tolerable when they're 2,000 miles away. (I even tried, in the name of city pride, to support them in 2003 - but the habits were too ingrained, and I'd keep catching myself cheering when Sosa struck out or Borowski did what Borowski is best at.)

So, how much does Theo sign Pujols for?

BTW, speaking not just as a Cardinals fan, but a baseball fan, thanks a #######, you Nazi Child Molesters, for making World Series season ALL ABOUT YOU and your pathetic team's acquisition of a general freakin manager.

No, the World Series is about the NFL and college football -- you can't hang that one on us. You have only yourselves to blame for that.

Hypothetical for Chisox fans: Cubs vs Yankees. What do you do?

Yankees, easy. Any additional Series win is just a drop in the bucket for the Yankees. Yeah, it sucks, but at least it wouldn't create the pandemonium a Cub win would.

And JoeC is right - location matters. Living on the North Side right now, I can only imagine the awfulness that would ensue in the event of a Cubs' Series win.

Now, if the White Sox get another win soon, I might be less fearful of that situation. Then the Cubs still wouldn't have caught the Sox.

Hypothetical for Chisox fans: Cubs vs Yankees. What do you do?

Respectfully disagree w/Eddo. Although Cubs-related schadenfreude has enlivened many a discussion on the relative merits of the Chicago teams, their true fans (like my brother) have suffered enough...as long as they go another 100 years till the next WS win.

- sick of the assholish attitude which is bad enough coming from a successful franchise, but insufferable coming from a historically futile but financially-bullying franchise. Added to this is the fact that the climate now among most people in the country, baseball fans included, is very populist, yet the team you idiotically assume "anybody" should root for is correctly seen as the rich, white ppl's team of the two in your town, with bleachers full of upper middle class drunks and boxes full of vapid, wealthy criminal class Chads and Trixies. Your team is 29th or 30th on the list of franchises who could be called an everyman's/everyfan's/people's team; only a true Cubs fan could mistake their own sick-####, sado-masochist love of the shittiest baseball franchise on earth as something "anybody" could or would share. Jesus ####### Christ. In reality, not only does no one like the Cubs but Cubs fans, but no one respects them, and a great many actively hate them.

BTW, speaking not just as a Cardinals fan, but a baseball fan, thanks a #######, you Nazi Child Molesters, for making World Series season ALL ABOUT YOU and your pathetic team's acquisition of a general freakin manager.

My, you sound well adjusted.

BTW, speaking not just as a Cardinals fan, but a baseball fan, thanks a #######, you Nazi Child Molesters, for making World Series season ALL ABOUT YOU and your pathetic team's acquisition of a general freakin manager.

You remind me of all the Auburn fans I know. Were your parents cousins too?

And speaking as a Cubs fan who considers the Red Sox and Yankees as evil twins, I don't expect them to root for the Cubs.

This Red Sox fan would root for the Cubs. Unless they were playing the Red Sox. Or the Rays or Mariners or Rangers, because they have never won it.

Or the Indians, because it's been a long time. Likewise, the Orioles, Tigers, and Royals, maybe the A's. Actually, it's been almost 20 years since the Jays won, so them, too, I suppose. Oh, and let's not forget the Twins. And if the Astros switch leagues, I'd root for them as well.

But other than that, yeah, go Cubs!

Were your parents cousins too?

Probably closer than that.

And, it's funny to hear Cardinals fans complaining about drunks. I mean, at least when Chads or Trixies die drug or alcohol-related deaths, Cub fans don't erect shrines to them.

So if Boston wins one more game in Sept., loses to Texas in a tough 5 game ALDS, does any of this happen?

I think the ad was a good move by Theo. I hate the Cubs; they've turned into the biggest whingers in MLB.

So, how much does Theo sign Pujols for?

This was my first thought when it was confirmed Theo was moving. I'd be surprised if this doesn't happen.

Former Padres President Larry Lucchino became president and CEO of the Red Sox on November 25, 2002, and hired Epstein to work under him.

This is definitely wrong as I visited there for the job in mid-August of 2002 and Epstein had clearly been there for months at that point. I'm pretty sure he came along with the rest of the Padres group when they acquired the club early that year.

Voros, is Theo as douchy as he seems? Or is he just awkward?

That is a fair question to ask Voros in a public forum.

I'm really not going to answer that except to say that I didn't find him particularly 'douchy' (is that the correct spelling?). A little temperamental maybe, but seemingly a good guy from my interactions with him. He's also an opinionated one and that might rub folks the wrong way. It's hard, competitive work (and very rewarding for baseball nuts like us) and that always brings with it the potential for bruised egos even with people with the best intentions and attitudes.

The non-answer says it all. I didn't realize Voros despised Theo until now.

Edit: Damn, Voros beat me by a second, so the bad joke is even worse now.

LOL! :D

EDIT: actually the response should have been up earlier but the server squirrels got me and it timed out. But it was funny either way.

I never really had a bad experience with anybody I actually ever met, even Bane and Hughes in that roundtable thingy, which read a lot more contentious than it actually was. It was good moods, handshakes and smiles all around after it was over (and Pat Gillick was there in the room though he didn't participate). I guess sometimes mere differences of opinion (without any actual animosity) can sometimes read more hostile than it really is.

Kinda like in here, sometimes.

I guess sometimes mere differences of opinion (without any actual animosity) can sometimes read more hostile than it really is.

Especially if you use phrases like "sycophant-laden fora" and "you've never comprehended on your best day".